aquatic weeds

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Orion

Yes, in my opening post I said I wasn't talking about invasive species, only the fact that these native plants (to the lake) are rapidly populating areas that had none and that it appears to be an explosive expansion over the last 2-3 years.

If we had no lawns extending to the water, we'd have fewer geese!

We had pipewort when my family got here almost 60 years ago. The pondwort has moved in, but worse is the accumulation of the mud that both prefer.

At nearby "pristine" lakes, I've noticed that shoreline White Pines hold back the rain-driven mud that gets relocated into the water. Back then, we lost all our marketable White Pines to a local developer.

We got MUD!

It's mostly shoreline Eastern Hemlocks that create the soil in the first place.

Hemlocks produce huge volumes of tiny needles. In un-trampled places, I can demonstrate how one's foot can sink down about a foot or more in Hemlock needles and "soil". What washes—or leafblower-driven—into the lake makes the squishy stuff that weeds love. How long before Hemlocks are discouraged along shorelines is anybody's guess.

• One calm day, I watched as a maintenance crew carefully raked a long Tuftonboro private beach, piled up that debris near a black plastic bag, then one of the crew got a shovel and heaved all that back into the lake!

• If a homeowner or spec-builder does everything "wrong" to make the property more saleable, there should be penalties.

• IMHO—as with the Moultonborough "firetower" debacle—mitigation should take place after the fact. I suggest putting a lien against the property when it next changes hands. (Say, 10% of the sales price as a penalty). And each time a property changes hands, a septic system inspection should be a part of the closing.

• OTOH, a reward should be in place for those who maintain an "above-average excess" of tree girth along their shoreline. Low-growing evergreens should also be rewarded with lower taxation.

Let the seller suffer the consequences of "A great view of the lake".

[MAXUM]

Septic systems are inspected for failure before any waterfront property changes hands, IE a site assessment. I also believe if a system is found in failure the DES is notified.

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Septic systems are inspected for failure before any waterfront property changes hands, IE a site assessment. I also believe if a system is found in failure the DES is notified.

Not quite. They do not actually physically inspect the system to see if it is working or not.

See the site assesment form referenced below.

WDSSB10

2010
Selling Developed Waterfront Property
Site Assessment Study Required
Relevant Law: RSA 4:40A,
485A:2, 485A:39.
Relevant Adm. Rule: EnvWq 1025

Statutory Requirements Prior to executing a purchase and sale agreement for any “developed waterfront property” using a septic disposal system, an owner shall, at his expense, engage a permitted subsurface sewer or waste disposal system designer to perform an onsite assessment study.

“Developed waterfront property” means any parcel of land upon which stands a structure

suitable for either seasonal or yearround human occupancy, where such parcel of land is

contiguous to or within 200 feet of the reference line of a fresh water body, coastal waters, or a river, as defined in RSA 483B:4.
Note that a site assessment study must be conducted whenever any part of the property is within 200 feet of the reference line, not merely when the structure or septic disposal system is within 200 feet of the reference line.
The site assessment study is a report prepared by a DES permitted septic system designer that you as the seller hire to determine if your site meets the current standards for septic disposal systems established by DES.
The assessment originally had been required prior to listing or offering the waterfront property
for sale, but since 1993, it has been required prior to executing a purchase and sale agreement and must include an onsite inspection.

The site assessment form may be obtained from the Subsurface Systems Bureau, or online at
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ite_assess.doc

For Further Information

If you have any questions concerning septic systems, contact DES Subsurface at (603) 2713501, or 29 Hazen Drive, PO Box 95, Concord, NH 033020095;
Fax: (603) 2716683;

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis.../ssb/index.htm.

[pcmc]

Sorry Orion this thread is off of its original track.

If septic systems are such a large culprit to polluting the lake, why not for the sake of the lake (all lakes) make it mandatory to replace all systems with in a determined distance from the lake if the system is 30+ years old. Then no if, ands, or buts, later on if a system has aged 30 years it gets replaced again.
30 years is only a number estimating a life expectancy of a septic system.

I realize all would say you can't make me do that, and I can't afford that, but we are talking about water front properties....yes you can afford it.

What we can't afford is a polluted lake.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by pcmc

....we are talking about water front properties....yes you can afford it......

As a water front owner, yes, I can go to the bank (as anyone can) and apply for a loan, but as a Lakes Region wage earner, all and any excess $$ goes to pay taxes, there is nothing left at the end....

[Happy Gourmand]

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run for the towns to run sewage lines? Seems like that would solve a lot of issues. I know it's not a simple solution, and very costly, but, in the end, wouldn't it be cost effective?

[pcmc]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run for the towns to run sewage lines? Seems like that would solve a lot of issues. I know it's not a simple solution, and very costly, but, in the end, wouldn't it be cost effective?

Great question. I'm not familiar enough with how an operation like this would work, but I would think it would require a good deal of pumping stations around the lake as the lake is the low point. Emergency backup would be interesting in case of a break, or an over flow run off situation ever happened.

[pcmc]

Originally Posted by wifi

As a water front owner, yes, I can go to the bank (as anyone can) and apply for a loan, but as a Lakes Region wage earner, all and any excess $$ goes to pay taxes, there is nothing left at the end....

Sorry wifi I hate stereo types too. My post did come come across too direct.
Forums never seem to be forgiving, there isn't a tone or attitude behind it, just conversation.
I was only thinking main land water front, hadn't figured island premiums.

I was just trying say if replacing old septic s would make a considerable improvement to the lake it would be money well spent.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Not quite. They do not actually physically inspect the system to see if it is working or not.

So I took a look at the site assessment that was done on my place prior to purchase, so technically you are correct in that the person that did it states that the "operation of the system cannot be verified" however it also states that the system "does not appear to be in failure". So I took that as a confirmation that as part of the assessment whoever does it at least makes sure there are no outward and obvious signs the system is no good. If that isn't a key part of the reason for having one done then it seems stupid to do it in the first place.

[mcdude]

The Winnipesaukee River Basin Program (WRBP) is the state-owned sewer system serving portions of the New Hampshire Lakes Region communities of Center Harbor, Moultonboro, Gilford, Meredith, Laconia, Belmont, Sanbornton, Northfield, Tilton, and Franklin. The WRBP's highly-regarded wastewater collection and treatment facilities, which include a treatment plant in Franklin and a maintenance facility in Laconia, are operated by employees of the state’s Department of Environmental Services (DES) on behalf of the communities benefiting from the facilities. A total of nearly $70 million has been spent to construct these facilities and about $2.7 million is spent each year to operate and maintain them. Much has been accomplished by the WRBP over the years.

25 for 25: How the Winnipesaukee River Basin Program Helped to Save the Lakes Region

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divisions/water/wrbb/

[wifi]

$70 million to develop current facilities, $2.7 to operate them, this is in yesteryear dollars. Does anyone know what percentage of lake front homes are served by this? I bet it doesn't even represent 3%. None of Moultonboro Neck or Meredith neck are served by the system, these are huge areas of lakefront.

I'd say even Obama or FLL's constant droning on this could summon the trillions in current dollars to do this. Yes, something should be done, but there is no instantaneous solution in today's (ie Obama's) broken economy, unless Walmart/China becomes a partner.

[SIKSUKR]

I question whether a failed septic is any harm to the lake if it stays contained in the system itself. When a septic fails its usually the leach field which clogs or collapses not allowing the effluent to leach into the ground. If the system doesn't leach at all and your tank becomes full and needs to be pumped frequently without overflowing, it would be my contention that the surrounding ground is LESS effected by waste water. It would work like a holding tank. Of course if the leaching media is clogged and the effluent tends to run somewhere else like towards the lake then that is an issue.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I question whether a failed septic is any harm to the lake if it stays contained in the system itself. When a septic fails its usually the leach field which clogs or collapses not allowing the effluent to leach into the ground. If the system doesn't leach at all and your tank becomes full and needs to be pumped frequently without overflowing, it would be my contention that the surrounding ground is LESS effected by waste water. It would work like a holding tank. Of course if the leaching media is clogged and the effluent tends to run somewhere else like towards the lake then that is an issue.

Yes, it makes sense that a frequently pumped septic system would contribute less phosphorus load than an ignored and failed system. However, the holding tank would have to be in good condition, and not a rotted out 55 gallon drum that never overflows. Systems over 50 years old are suspect. There is a test kit to check for leakage, but it would surprise me if many would take advantage of that.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by wifi

$70 million to develop current facilities, $2.7 to operate them, this is in yesteryear dollars. Does anyone know what percentage of lake front homes are served by this? I bet it doesn't even represent 3%. None of Moultonboro Neck or Meredith neck are served by the system, these are huge areas of lakefront.

I'd say even Obama or FLL's constant droning on this could summon the trillions in current dollars to do this. Yes, something should be done, but there is no instantaneous solution in today's (ie Obama's) broken economy, unless Walmart/China becomes a partner.

Not only do you have area's such as Moultonborough Neck and Meredith Neck that aren't serviced by the system... You have all the island properties for those towns as well.... Top that off with the fact the private homeowners probably had a choice to tie into the system, and I am sure their where a portion that opted not too.

[SunsetPointWentworth]

This could work.