Fee for Kayaks

[Merrymeeting]

I love (NOT!) that they are pushing this as a way to keep Fish & Game going. If they hadn't raided the F&G funding sources for other things over the past decade, there would be no need.

How long before this additional fee is diverted from F&G and used to fund some other unneeded program? Adding more fees is not the answer.

[Woodsy]

I have always thought the kayaks & canoes should pay a small fee... and I am all for the $10.00 sticker. IF ITS MANAGED PROPERLY!

The issue I have is....

THE IDIOT REPS & SENATORS WHO THINK ITS OK TO ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL!

NH F&G has been facing declining revenues and increased costs for years. Less people hunting & fishing coupled with EXORBITANT rescue costs. Yet the Legislature has seen fit to raid F&G funds to pay for overspending the General fund!

Same goes for NHMP.... They had plenty of $$ to be self sufficient! Until the IDIOTS in Concord thought it ok to raid their $$ to help pay for overspending the General fund!!

STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DONT HAVE!

Sorry for the rant...

Woodsy

[Billy Bob]

Just another reason for the out of state visitor to pick another state to visit.
If you are a power boater we have the restrictive boating license rules which have deeply cut into that business . With this restriction the folks that come up for a few days would have to stop and get a sticker " someplace " before they hit the water .

Or they can stay in their home state or go to one of the other 46 states that don't require a sticker , including Maine , Mass, RI, VT , CT .

Keep making these restrictive " Use " rules and keep watching the tourism dollars go away . what happened to live free or die ? Perhaps time to look at other sources of income like a sales tax ( opps sorry )

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Just another reason for the out of state visitor to pick another state to visit.
If you are a power boater we have the restrictive boating license rules which have deeply cut into that business . With this restriction the folks that come up for a few days would have to stop and get a sticker " someplace " before they hit the water .

Or they can stay in their home state or go to one of the other 46 states that don't require a sticker , including Maine , Mass, RI, VT , CT .

Keep making these restrictive " Use " rules and keep watching the tourism dollars go away . what happened to live free or die ? Perhaps time to look at other sources of income like a sales tax ( opps sorry )

So the state gets another $10 and misses out on $1,000 in tourist spending.

[HellRaZoR004]

This entire topic is complete BS! Before you know it they'll be proposing stickers for people to ride their bike to work because they can't afford the gas tax increase. Stop spending money you don't have. It's that simple.

[LakeSnake]

I find it interesting that the F&G had the money to buy Downings Landing - was it just last year? Now they are broke so they need to increase fees!
Oh and they use the money generated for F&G to cover overspending in the general fund. Smells a lot like a place i know all to well to the south.

Vote these "people" out of office before its to late. Please - I don't want NH to turn into something different that what is was.

[Steveo]

Don't have a clue why the bought Downings if they had this kind of financial problems. They should just start collecting launch fees, I don't think anyone would have a problem since it was well used during Downing ownership.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

All for it, as long as the money is left in the F&G fund. Kayakers, and other human powered craft, use the lakes resources, boat ramps etc, just as much as powered craft. If you can buy a $1000 kayak I think the $10 won't break the bank.

[tis]

Government will never have enough money. The more they have the more they spend it on.

[Bear Islander]

This in not just a fee for kayaks as the title of this thread implies. If you read carefully it is for all "non-motorized vessels".

Section 270-D:1 Definitions.
"Boat'' means every description of watercraft other than seaplanes, capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water and which is primarily used for noncommercial purposes, or leased, rented, loaned or chartered to another for such use.

It includes canoes, pedal boats, row boats, small sailboats, surf boards, inflatable rafts, wind surfers, even an inner tube or inflatable toys!

"Capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water" is a very broad definition.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

All for it, as long as the money is left in the F&G fund. Kayakers, and other human powered craft, use the lakes resources, boat ramps etc, just as much as powered craft. If you can buy a $1000 kayak I think the $10 won't break the bank.

Not everyone has a $1000 kayak, they are available for $250 new, $100 or less used, sometimes a gift. The misconception that everyone on the lake in some form of watercraft is rich with deep pockets is getting tiring. Many people scrimp and scrape to be able to get out on the lake. They don't necessarily have piles of money in reserve to keep funding misguided government programs. Most people today have tightened their belts and expect their elected leaders to at least consider the concept.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

My apologies. Not all kayaks are expensive, however I still think $10 is a fair fee.
(oh and I might think this is Karma for all they kayakers and non powered boat owners for pushing that law we never speak of on here)

[BroadHopper]

There is another RSA coming up in 2014 to raid the F&G bank. I hope it gets shot down.

I have ask Rep. Huot to issue an RSA this year to leave boat registration to marine patrol as most of that money went to 'general funds'. It went ITL, 'inexpedient to legislate' i.e. 'Don't touch the General fund so that we can spend, spend, spend.'

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

that law we never speak of on here

You are welcome to speak of it all you want in the Speed Limits forum. I'd just like to keep the inevitable bickering out of other areas.

[LIforrelaxin]

Here we are again, we debated this very issue a few years ago. While a 10$ fee may on the outset seem easy to deal with, for most families it will not be a simple 10$ fee. My self for instence:

2 Kayaks --> 20$
1 Canoe --> 10$

30$ total

Now if I take it to the Bear Islander extreme, for which he is right and this law could be made to apply to tubes and rafts. I end up with:

2 multi-person rafts --> 20$

for a grand total of 50$....

That on top of the Money I already pay for my boat and Jet-Ski registrations.

Now I launch on my own property, and don't use any state facilities, except for the lake itself.... Sure someday, I might need to be rescued and I am aware of that, and understand that it does cost money.... And am willing to pay for that service..

Humm they already have a law in place, that gives, the state agencies the ability to recoup the cost of a search and rescue operation don't they????

They can keep adding fees and hey maybe some day they will balance the budget.... but it doesn't mean it is fair, or the correct thing to do. I will be pefectly honest, if my family didn't have property on the Lake, I would have found a new more vacationer friendly area to spend my money.... The State of NH has increase the cost of registering boats, raised room and board taxes, all in an effort to make more money. But it doesn't seem to be helping, the bleeding never stops.... Because as they raise the fees and taxes, people find other places to go..... Sure Tourism in NH is still alive and well, but when you get down to the brass tax of it all it isn't what it was 10-15 years ago.

I have said this many time, NH needs to look at ways to make revenue, that make sense, and don't pass the burden on to the tourists only....I have said many time, add a 1% sales tax, and the state will create a stream of revenue that is unparalleled. However before that is done, the distribution of that money needs to be set up correctly. The whole problem is the State of NH never set the funding of all its branches properly, and now they are paying the price, and doing a lot of robbing from Peter to pay Paul. NH has and has had for many years a crisis with state revenue and spending. But although the promises are made to deal with it the politicians never do.... NH has to face some radical reforms in order to properly fund itself, On of which is a total redefining of how money is distributed, and raised.

[Webbsatwinni]

Agreed 100%, its all fun and games until your passion is the focus of others. Where do I send my $10?

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

My apologies. Not all kayaks are expensive, however I still think $10 is a fair fee.
(oh and I might think this is Karma for all they kayakers and non powered boat owners for pushing that law we never speak of on here)

[Woodsy]

Orion...

NH has always been a "Pay To Play" state. The legislature used to be very good about keeping the funds separate. F&G was funded primarily by the hunting & fishing licenses and snowmobile/ATV registrations. NHMP was funded primarily by boat registrations. The NH State Parks were funded by access/camping fees. etc etc

I don't think an eco-friendly tourist (most canoeists and kayakers) is really going to care about a $10 access sticker as long as the sticker is EASILY obtainable (any nearby store) and the money collected is spent on F&G... not somehow appropriated to cover overspending in the General fund.

I don't have a problem with "Pay To Play".... I happily pay to register my boat, my sled, my bike and my atv! As long as the money goes where its supposed to! An extra $10 to slap a sticker on a kayak is not a big deal. As long as the money goes where its supposed to!

Woodsy

[chaseisland]

I wonder if those who propose have thought this through to the end. Such as, who will be responsible for enforcing this idea and what will be the penalty for noncompliance? Do you suppose that MP will ticket those who don't have stickers? Probably not, for the money goes to F&G. Will F&G start enforcing boating laws and regulations? Oh what a quagmire they want to create. Guess there needs to be a new state agency for this purpose.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by chaseisland

I wonder if those who propose have thought this through to the end. Such as, who will be responsible for enforcing this idea and what will be the penalty for noncompliance? Do you suppose that MP will ticket those who don't have stickers? Probably not, for the money goes to F&G. Will F&G start enforcing boating laws and regulations? Oh what a quagmire they want to create. Guess there needs to be a new state agency for this purpose.

Not to mention that "stickers" won't stick to most of the "floatables" mentioned prior, nor can you have a wallet on most of the items mentioned.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have always thought the kayaks & canoes should pay a small fee... and I am all for the $10.00 sticker. IF ITS MANAGED PROPERLY!

The issue I have is....

THE IDIOT REPS & SENATORS WHO THINK ITS OK TO ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL!

NH F&G has been facing declining revenues and increased costs for years.

Fewer people hunting & fishing coupled with EXORBITANT rescue costs. Yet the Legislature has seen fit to raid F&G funds to pay for overspending the General fund!

Same goes for NHMP.... They had plenty of $$ to be self sufficient! Until the IDIOTS in Concord thought it ok to raid their $$ to help pay for overspending the General fund!!

STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DONT HAVE!

Sorry for the rant...

Woodsy

'Can't disagree. (This time).

Then again, New Hampshire hasn't charged a fee for "vessels" that leak gasoline, and whose rescues never come cheap.



(Credit: Photopost)...

[Woodsy]

APS...

Insurance usually covers the cost of recovery or any environmental fees/fines with regards to sunken vessels. The state rarely pays if at all. I know the insurance on my boat has an environmental EPA rider included. Up to $500K I think and they cover the cost of recovery. There are also maritime salvage laws that come into play as well. The small float planes and sleds don't carry enough gas/oil to warrant an environmental hazard as long as they are recovered quickly.

F&G has a tough road ahead financially. I don't have a problem with spreading the wealth to the kayakers/canoeists/sailboaters/hikers etc who enjoy the resources & protection that the F&G dept provides. Just make sure you write the law in such a way that the $$ raised cannot be raided for the General Fund.

Woodsy

[chaseisland]

Write the law the way you want it. When the next legislature comes along will not be able to recognize the original law after they get their paws on it. With the legislature in session hide the women and children and duck for cover.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Just make sure you write the law in such a way that the $$ raised cannot be raided for the General Fund.

Woodsy

You know that will never happen.... As long as the politicians are making the laws they will not allow that type of rider on a law....

NH is still trying to rob Peter to pay Paul....

NH funding is still completely Broken....

[fatlazyless]

Charging ten dollars per year for kayak, canoes, rowboats, and small sailboats under 12', not counting the rudder, seems like an excellent idea. Not only will it raise needed money for the Fish & Game Dept and maybe for the state parks system but it will also enhance the use one gets out of a small boat because using the small boat will be appreciated more when it comes with a price like this and at ten dollars/year.....it is a super-duper steal of a deal......just like the 20-dollar White Mountain National Forest yearly windshield sticker that allows you to park at a WMNF hiking trail.


For just ten bucks........this proposed kayak sticker, as it is called, would still be a steal of a deal at twice the price or twenty dollars.


Plus, it should empower the Fish & Game Dept to go after people from Massachusetts who get caught kayaking without a valid sticker and wack them with a 200-dollar violation or something like that!!!! .... .....okey-dookey......u get caught paddling without a valid sticker......and it will cost you some big money.........hee-hee-hee-hee......this ticket is for you! ..

[Island Girl]

We have three kayaks. They may get uses once a year or less. Paying 30 dollars just in case we might use them is ridiculous.... on top of the boat fee, the jetski fee, real estate taxes, etc. I vote no.



IG

[mcdude]

from the Daily Sun

House votes to add $2 to boat fee to fight milfoil; local GOP repsvote 'no'

• Published Date Thursday, 30 January 2014 01:38

CONCORD — The Belknap County representatives divided along party lines when the New Hampshire House of Representatives voted yesterday to increase the boat registration fee by $2 and apply the proceeds to control of milfoil and other exotic, invasive aquatic weeds.
Originally House Bill 292 would have required all out-of-state boaters to purchase a decal and applied the receipts to aquatic weed control. However, the House Resources, Recreation and Development Committee learned that for the program to break even would require the sale of 35,000 decals at $10 apiece while the best estimate of the number of vessels registered in other states but plying New Hampshire waters fell between 9,000 and 10,000.
The committee, with the support of the Marine Patrol, Department of Environmental Services and New Hampshire Marine Trades Association, amended the bill to increase the boat registration fee by $2, from $7.50 to $9.50 and the share of the revenue earmarked for controlling exotic aquatic plants from $3 to $5.
Supporters of the bill noted that in the last 20 years the number of infested water bodies in the state has risen from four to 80 while funding for matching grants to local lake associations and municipalities to treat and control aquatic weeds has grown at a much slower pace.
The amended bill carried the House by a vote of 164 to 127. Since the bill would raise revenue, it was referred to the House Ways and Means Committee, which will make its recommendation and return it to the full House for a final vote.
Among the 18 members of the Belknap County delegation 13 — four Democrats and nine Republicans — were present and voting. All the Democrats — Lisa DiMartino of Gilford, Ruth Gulick of New Hampton, David Huot of Laconia and Ian Raymond of Sanbornton — voted in favor while Beth Arsenault of Laconia was absent. All the Republicans — Richard Burchell of Gilmanton, Dennis Fields of Sanbornton, Don Flanders and Frank Tilton of Laconia, Bob Greemore, Herb Vadney and Colette Worsman of Meredith, Stephen Holmes of Alton and Michael Sylvia of Belmont — voted against, while Guy Comtois of Barnstead, Jane Cormier of Alton, Charlkes Fink of Belmont and Bob Luther of Laconia were absent.

[Dick]

For all these years our Fish & Game Dept. services have been paid for primarily by hunters, anglers, and motorboats. In the case of motorboat registration, $5 is supposed to go into a dedicated fund to help pay for acquiring new public water access sites and mainatining the approx. 146 that F&G already owns/controls. BTW, about half of these sites are cartop only . . .so the motorboaters have been (and still are) paying for water access for canoes and kyaks. Non-mortorized craft often park and launch from boat ramp sites that were primarily designed for motorboats In addition, it is the motorboaters who also pay into the milfoil fund when they register each year. I own a canoe too and I pay nothing for the above.

Most of us believe in the fairness of "User Benefit . . . User Pay"

Here's an idea . . . implement the modest $10 annual decal. However, if you are a current holder of a fishing or hunting license or have a motorboat registration you are exempted because you have already paid.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Dick

.........
Here's an idea . . . implement the modest $10 annual decal. However, if you are a current holder of a fishing or hunting license or have a motorboat registration you are exempted because you have already paid.

Now that's an approach I can agree with.

[tis]

WE have the same situation because we have more than one boat. Two of the boats gets used, the others not so much. I don't know why we keep them really. Just because we have them I guess.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tis

WE have the same situation because we have more than one boat. Two of the boats gets used, the others not so much. I don't know why we keep them really. Just because we have them I guess.

I'm in the same boat. Anyone want to buy two kayaks? I have two that haven't been used much lately.

[Rob M]

When I show up at a boat launch at 6am to launch and can not park because the lot is full and 3/4 of the spots are taken by kayakers it is unfair and frustrating. I have paid money into the system which built and maintains the launch, the kayakers have not. How can we come up with a fair solution for everyone? As of right now boaters are paying the way for canoes/kayaks/cartops. All of which require F&G or Marine Patrol as much as boaters.

A kayaker calls Marine Patrol to complain about something, Marine Patrol must take their complaint even though they have not paid in the system and act on the complaint which costs money. This is being paid for by boat owners.

Someone in a canoe takes on water and is sinking, Marine Patrol is called and tows the canoe in, this costs money, yet the canoe owner has not paid in the system, how is this fair?

We all have a right to access the waters of the State and use them for whatever we like, but the ramps and services we all use need to be paid for, and it is time that we all share the burden.

As far as the sticker driving away tourists, Maine has seen no decline in tourism since instituting their decal program.

It has been mentioned on here that this would be a burden for resorts that have 30 kayaks, these resorts all are there to make a profit, if the kayak does not generate $10 per year in profit they can either get rid of it, or charge someone a $1 to use the kayak...problem solved.

Everyone loves a free ride, eventually someone has to foot the bill, and that time is now.

Sorry to be long winded and angry about the subject, but this subject hits a nerve.

[Island Girl]

We have 3 kayaks, rarely used. Guest like them. We do not use ramps or parking. I don't want to pay anymore than I already do for my power boats. Perhaps we can get kayak decals free with the registration of a boat, or a tax bill for island property.

I do understand the frustration and unfairness of some boaters not paying their fair share. I just pay enough already.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Rob M

When I show up at a boat launch at 6am to launch and can not park because the lot is full and 3/4 of the spots are taken by kayakers it is unfair and frustrating. I have paid money into the system which built and maintains the launch, the kayakers have not. How can we come up with a fair solution for everyone? As of right now boaters are paying the way for canoes/kayaks/cartops. All of which require F&G or Marine Patrol as much as boaters.

A kayaker calls Marine Patrol to complain about something, Marine Patrol must take their complaint even though they have not paid in the system and act on the complaint which costs money. This is being paid for by boat owners.

Someone in a canoe takes on water and is sinking, Marine Patrol is called and tows the canoe in, this costs money, yet the canoe owner has not paid in the system, how is this fair?

We all have a right to access the waters of the State and use them for whatever we like, but the ramps and services we all use need to be paid for, and it is time that we all share the burden.

As far as the sticker driving away tourists, Maine has seen no decline in tourism since instituting their decal program.

It has been mentioned on here that this would be a burden for resorts that have 30 kayaks, these resorts all are there to make a profit, if the kayak does not generate $10 per year in profit they can either get rid of it, or charge someone a $1 to use the kayak...problem solved.

Everyone loves a free ride, eventually someone has to foot the bill, and that time is now.

Sorry to be long winded and angry about the subject, but this subject hits a nerve.

Why don't we just hand over our pay check to the government and let them take what they want and then what's left over they can give it to us.

Tax this, and tax that, fund government for this, and fund government that ...when is this BS going to stop.

All of these government agencies need to get their house in order and stop all this wanting more from the citizens of this country.

[RANGER CANOE CO]

Originally Posted by Rob M

When I show up at a boat launch at 6am to launch and can not park because the lot is full and 3/4 of the spots are taken by kayakers it is unfair and frustrating. I have paid money into the system which built and maintains the launch, the kayakers have not. How can we come up with a fair solution for everyone? As of right now boaters are paying the way for canoes/kayaks/cartops. All of which require F&G or Marine Patrol as much as boaters.

A kayaker calls Marine Patrol to complain about something, Marine Patrol must take their complaint even though they have not paid in the system and act on the complaint which costs money. This is being paid for by boat owners.

Someone in a canoe takes on water and is sinking, Marine Patrol is called and tows the canoe in, this costs money, yet the canoe owner has not paid in the system, how is this fair?

We all have a right to access the waters of the State and use them for whatever we like, but the ramps and services we all use need to be paid for, and it is time that we all share the burden.

As far as the sticker driving away tourists, Maine has seen no decline in tourism since instituting their decal program.

It has been mentioned on here that this would be a burden for resorts that have 30 kayaks, these resorts all are there to make a profit, if the kayak does not generate $10 per year in profit they can either get rid of it, or charge someone a $1 to use the kayak...problem solved.

Everyone loves a free ride, eventually someone has to foot the bill, and that time is now.

Sorry to be long winded and angry about the subject, but this subject hits a nerve.

Well Sir, If you show up at the F+G boat ramp on Squam Lake with your car top canoe or kayak and park. Your car will be TOWED because you have to have a trailer hooked to your auto @ this (ONLY) public access to Squam. Two years ago, 2 ladies from Mass payed $325, because their car was towed all the way to Bristol because of some crazy towing rotation contract (?) I talked to these people at the ramp, who taught their car was stolen. PD told them it was towed. They didn't see the tiny sign saying you need a trailer. And FYI, You better get to the Squam ramp before 5am to beat the bass boat crowd. Whats Hunting + fishing got to do with paddling anyway. Most paddlers don't shoot and gut a deer, trust me Rusty has it right, Amen brother, Hut Hut. Now its Milfoil $ grab.