Official 2013-14 Ice-In Thread

[Lakegeezer]

Reading satellite pictures can be as tough as reading medical X-rays, but today's shot, in very clear skys, indicates thinner ice in the broads and surrounding edges. Up in the northeast watershed of the lake, we had trusted reports of 18" of ice a few days ago, so some spots of 20" seems likely.

[FLAG!]

Are there any ice reports from the Wolfeboro area? I'm wondering how much ice there is OUTSIDE of Wolfeboro bay, particularly on the broads side of little barn door island. Typically if there's 10 inches there the rest of the Wolfeboro area is pretty secure.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Reading satellite pictures can be as tough as reading medical X-rays, but today's shot, in very clear skys, indicates thinner ice in the broads and surrounding edges. Up in the northeast watershed of the lake, we had trusted reports of 18" of ice a few days ago, so some spots of 20" seems likely.

The view doesn't mean it's thinner at all. Clear black ice is the strongest ice there is. With all of the wind of late, the snow is blown off the areas that appear darker.....fear not.
BT

[ishoot308]

I am not in Gilford until tomorrow night and was hoping someone may have a visual report on the open water condition between Ellacoya and Welch...is there still open water???

Thanks!!

Dan

[DRH]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I am not in Gilford until tomorrow night and was hoping someone may have a visual report on the open water condition between Ellacoya and Welch...is there still open water???

Thanks!!

Dan

Dan - as of yesterday afternoon the large area of open water was still there. I couldn't tell if it had shrunk or not during this cold weather spell we're having but if it has, it hasn't been by much. The open water area extends from Welch Island over toward Diamond Island.

[CAVU]

I have heard reports there are certain areas of the lake that weak ice in the winter due to large springs. I believe this is a spring fed lake. In fact I've been told that main outflow of the lake isn't Lakeport at all, its actually through the bottom of the lake. Apparently the bottom, through the bedrock, is very porous. While some openings feed the lake others drain it. A little fact I did not know until recently. I always thought it was Lakeport. My point to all of this, is that perhaps a few quakes in recent years opened a new large spring. I find a Geothermal vent to be unlikely. Everything I have read on it, suggests those are mainly confined to deep ocean floors or hot spring type lakes. I also think it were it were a Geothermal vent the open water would grow and be much larger. If I'm correct the open spot is slowly shrinking. I think a Geothermal vent would behave like the Aquatherms in the other thread. I think a large spring is more plausible. I would love to go down and take a peek. Anyway, just my two cents worth.

[TJNed]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I am not in Gilford until tomorrow night and was hoping someone may have a visual report on the open water condition between Ellacoya and Welch...is there still open water???

Thanks!!

Dan

Ishoot308 - When you get to Gilford can you let me know how the conditions are in Paugus Bay? We usually get on there and ride to Meredith. I don't know if I should take the snow machine or the four wheeler. In past years we had a hard time getting around the bridge to GI. It seems the property owner blocked off the only way up and around the bridge so we have to go the long way around Governors Island.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TJNed

Ishoot308 - When you get to Gilford can you let me know how the conditions are in Paugus Bay? We usually get on there and ride to Meredith. I don't know if I should take the snow machine or the four wheeler. In past years we had a hard time getting around the bridge to GI. It seems the property owner blocked off the only way up and around the bridge so we have to go the long way around Governors Island.

As of last weekend....Sanders Bay is locked solid with plenty of ice for a couple weeks now. Measured 12" two weeks ago, probably close to 20" now (Please check for yourself however!).

Between Lockes and Governors 12"+ measured. Snowmobiles, trucks and ATVs all over the witches area.

West side of Welch all the way to Governors locked solid with a measured 12"+ of ice.

Welch island North to Braun bay locked solid with a measured 11"+ of ice. Trucks, snowmobiles, and atvs everywhere.

Great snow on the lake for the sleds!! Also nice for 4 wheelers!

Please note...I do not not and never will recommend driving a full size truck on the ice regardless of thickness. I only mention it because I saw them out there. Please do not believe anything I say and confirm ice thickness for yourself to be safe!

Thanks and have fun!!

Dan

[TJNed]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

As of last weekend....Paugus Bay is locked solid with plenty of ice. (Please check for yourself however!) Same goes for the North side of Governors. Snowmobiles, trucks and ATVs all over the witches area.

West side of Welch all the way to Governors locked solid with a measured 12"+ of ice.

Welch island North to Braun bay locked solid with a measured 11"+ of ice.

Great snow on the lake for the sleds!!

Please do not believe anything I say and confirm ice thickness for yourself to be safe!

Thanks!!

Dan

Thanks Dan! Not to worry we always check out the conditions before venturing out. Will be there for Derby Weekend.

[salty dog]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

As of last weekend....Sanders Bay is locked solid with plenty of ice for a couple weeks now. Measured 12" two weeks ago, probably close to 20" now (Please check for yourself however!).

Between Lockes and Governors 12"+ measured. Snowmobiles, trucks and ATVs all over the witches area.

West side of Welch all the way to Governors locked solid with a measured 12"+ of ice.

Welch island North to Braun bay locked solid with a measured 11"+ of ice. Trucks, snowmobiles, and atvs everywhere.

Great snow on the lake for the sleds!! Also nice for 4 wheelers!

Please note...I do not not and never will recommend driving a full size truck on the ice regardless of thickness. I only mention it because I saw them out there. Please do not believe anything I say and confirm ice thickness for yourself to be safe!

Thanks and have fun!!

Dan

Just curious. What is the recommenced ice thickness (if any) before a larger vehicle/4x4 should venture out on the lake? Never done that and don't know if I would but I think I'd be nervous driving out with my Expedition unless there were other heavy vehicles on the ice also.

Chris

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by salty dog

Just curious. What is the recommenced ice thickness (if any) before a larger vehicle/4x4 should venture out on the lake?

Here's a few charts I found online:

[rdant]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Here's a few charts I found online:

None of the charts show airplanes!

I put my little Cessna 172 between the BMW and the Truck.

[Slickcraft]

On the news tonight mention was made of F&G warnings about some unsafe areas of the lake specifically noting an area near Welch Island. They also briefly showed an aerial photo that looked like the 2nd photo in post #183 which they attributed to the Civil Air Patrol.

They did note that many areas of the lake are safe with about a foot of ice.

[Winnisquamguy]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

On the news tonight mention was made of F&G warnings about some unsafe areas of the lake specifically noting an area near Welch Island. They also briefly showed an aerial photo that looked like the 2nd photo in post #183 which they attributed to the Civil Air Patrol.

They did note that many areas of the lake are safe with about a foot of ice.

Here is the full article that Slickcraft is talking about.

CONCORD, N.H. -- New Hampshire Fish and Game Department officials warn that this winter's uneven temperatures and high winds have affected ice formation, particularly on the state's larger lakes. Fish and Game is urging those heading out onto the ice to exercise caution as they do so. A large number of anglers are expected to head out onto the state's lakes and ponds this weekend to participate in the Meredith Rotary Ice Fishing Derby (February 8-9, 2014).
A recent aerial survey of Lake Winnipesaukee by the N.H. Civil Air Patrol revealed treacherous ice conditions on some parts of the big lake, including an area of open water near Welch Island. Note the aerial photo at right of Lake Winnipesaukee ice conditions, taken on January 25, 2014.
"Caution is in order for those going out onto the ice, especially on the large lakes," said Fish and Game Lt. James Goss. "Don't let the cold temperatures fool you – some areas that have traditionally been safe for ice anglers and other outdoor recreationists are not safe this year. We are urging people to check the ice thickness for yourself before you go out onto any frozen waterbody."
Because of the unpredictable ice conditions, it is not advisable to drive vehicles onto the ice, Goss said. Those on foot should carefully assess ice safety before venturing out by using an ice chisel or auger to determine ice thickness and condition. Continue to do this as you get further out on to the ice, because the thickness of the ice will not be uniform all over the waterbody.
Fisheries Biologist Don Miller notes, "Even though the winter of 2013-2014 has been cold so far, ice conditions on Lake Winnipesaukee are highly variable. One area of note where extreme caution should be exercised extends from Lakeshore Park in Gilford, east to Welch Island and across to Long Island, Moultonborough. The area extends south to Diamond and Rattlesnake islands and west to the Gilford shore line. This includes the vicinity commonly referred to as "the Broads." While caution should be exercised on the ice at all times, this area of Winnipesauke has seen very poor ice conditions consistently over the past few years. Extreme caution should be used in this area."
As shown in the aerial photo, even travel along the shore line south of Lakeshore Park is not recommended.
Though all ice is potentially dangerous, the U.S. Army Cold Regions Research & Engineering Laboratory in Hanover, N.H., offers a "rule of thumb" on ice thickness: There should be a minimum of six inches of hard ice before individual foot travel, and eight to ten inches of hard ice for snow machine or All-Terrain Vehicle travel.
Keep in mind that thick ice does not always mean safe ice. It is possible for ice to be thick, but not strong, because of varying weather conditions. Weak ice is formed when warming trends break down ice, then the slushy surface re-freezes. Be especially careful of areas with current, such as inlets, outlets and spring holes, where the ice can be dangerously thin.

Tips for staying safe on the ice include:

• Stay off the ice along the shoreline if it is cracked or squishy. Don’t go on the ice during thaws.
• Watch out for thin, clear or honeycombed ice. Dark snow and ice may also indicate weak spots.
• Small bodies of water tend to freeze thicker. Rivers and lakes are more prone to wind, currents and wave action that weaken ice.
• Don’t gather in large groups or drive large vehicles onto the ice.
• If you do break through the ice, don’t panic. Move or swim back to where you fell in, where you
  know the ice was solid. Lay both arms on the unbroken ice and kick hard. This will help lift your body onto the ice. A set of ice picks can help you pull yourself out if you do fall through the ice; wear them around your neck or put them in an easily accessible pocket. Once out of the water, roll away from the hole until you reach solid ice.

Ice safety is also very important for snowmobilers. Don't assume a trail is safe just because it exists; ask about trail conditions at local snowmobile clubs or sporting goods shops before you go.

http://www.wildnh.com/Newsroom/2014/...ty_013014.html

[ishoot308]

The open water area between Welch and lake Shore Park looked like just a sliver this morning...a crack in the ice!

We have some warmer weather coming in for the next three days so I doubt we will see this area freeze until next week when the colder weather returns...

Dan

[phoenix]

always like this time of year when ice in and ice out discussions are happening at same time

[Timma]

Tentatively plannning on trekking across the Lake from Glendale to Welch in a couple of weeks with friends, assuming the ice is safe.

Any thoughts on whether than open water patch would be an issue (assuming it's still there)? We'd be going to the NW side of Welch so I'm thinking we can stay safely away from it. Maybe not though?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Timma

Tentatively plannning on trekking across the Lake from Glendale to Welch in a couple of weeks with friends, assuming the ice is safe.

Any thoughts on whether than open water patch would be an issue (assuming it's still there)? We'd be going to the NW side of Welch so I'm thinking we can stay safely away from it. Maybe not though?

You are all set! Plenty of ice on that side 14+" (please check for yourself). Not a single pressure ridge as of last weekend, flat as a pancake!

The open water / unsafe area is on the Southeast side facing Ellacoya just stay away from that area.

Enjoy your trek, I will be out there all weekend!

Dan

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by Timma

Tentatively plannning on trekking across the Lake from Glendale to Welch in a couple of weeks with friends, assuming the ice is safe.

Any thoughts on whether than open water patch would be an issue (assuming it's still there)? We'd be going to the NW side of Welch so I'm thinking we can stay safely away from it. Maybe not though?

We walked over to NW Welch last Friday and as Dan said the ice is flat and firm. The last 1,000 feet of so was all snow covered as it blew off the center and settled near the island. However we were glad we had the microspikes on for most of the walk, lots of glare ice. That will of course all change with the forecast storms.

[FLAG!]

We ice fished the Wolfeboro area this past weekend. We had 13 inches of ice however a good 4 to 6 of that was grey ice. THough there were trucks in Wolfeboro Bay and South Wolfeboro Bay, I decided to stick to snowmobile access due to the lack of 10+ inches of black ice. I did see someone in a small passenger car drive from Wolf bay out to where we were. He stopped after passing us, backed up, turned around and went back towards wolfeboro Bay. I later talked to a Fish & Game Officer who told me he pulled him over as he was driving like an idiot and too fast within 150' of ice fishermen. He also chased down some sledders that came too close to our guys at high speed. I think he enjoys the chase. He didn't cite them, just verbal warning.

[CAVU]

Is the open water officially iced over?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by CAVU

Is the open water officially iced over?

Not as of this past Monday it certainly wasn't... I honestly do not think it will freeze over this year. Something has changed drastically in that area in the past couple years and not sure what it is. It is now an area that just will not freeze over... Plenty of ice everywhere else though!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by salty dog

Just curious. What is the recommenced ice thickness (if any) before a larger vehicle/4x4 should venture out on the lake? Never done that and don't know if I would but I think I'd be nervous driving out with my Expedition unless there were other heavy vehicles on the ice also.

Chris

Well...here is what the Army Corp of Engineers says...

"The following table of safe loads is valid ONLY for ice that is clear and sound, with no flowing water underneath. it is not reliable for stationary loads."

1-3/4" One person on skies
2" One person on foot or skates
3" One snowmobile
3" A group of people walking single file
7" A single passenger automobile
8" A 2-1/2 ton truck
9" A 3-1/2 ton truck
10" A 7 to 8 ton truck

In my opinion anyone who would drive an 8 ton truck on 10" of ice is a moron!

[salty dog]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Well...here is what the Army Corp of Engineers says...

"The following table of safe loads is valid ONLY for ice that is clear and sound, with no flowing water underneath. it is not reliable for stationary loads."

1-3/4" One person on skies
2" One person on foot or skates
3" One snowmobile
3" A group of people walking single file
7" A single passenger automobile
8" A 2-1/2 ton truck
9" A 3-1/2 ton truck
10" A 7 to 8 ton truck

In my opinion anyone who would drive an 8 ton truck on 10" of ice is a moron!

Thanks for the info. 8 tons, eh? Think I'll watch from shore!

[upthesaukee]

...the Welch Island to Diamond Island hot tub is still there, although my wife thought it was a little smaller today than Sunday.

[FLAG!]

Call me a dumb, but I've driven several trucks on the ice on Winni for many years. I've also not driven a truck on the ice many years. Understanding what kind of ice you have is key. Black ice is obviously the safest. Here are some guidelines I use.
1) what other vehicles have been out on the ice. I am never the first truck on the ice
2) drill holes along the path to my destination and record ice quality and thickness.
3) recent weather. Have there been recent thaws?

I wouldn't drive a truck on the ice with fewer than 12" solid ice. Recent years have not been good. I haven't had a truck on the ice since 2006 or 2007 I think.

When I was younger and more foolish I was careless and lucky. I probably drove on 10 inches of ice. In fact one at really dumb moment I drove onto the ice at Brewster Beach in Wolfeboro in my brother's Ford Bronco (sure as hell wasn't taking MY truck out there ), I drove straight across the broads to Meredith. At one point I hit a pressure ridge that I didn't even SEE until I was about 4 feet from it (everything was covered in snow). Fortunately the truck had a good size rancho suspension/lift kit and big tires on it. That truck was AIRBORN. When I arrived in Meredith Bay I stopped about 100 yards from a group of ice fishermen. I walked over and asked where a good place to get off the lake was. They said "probably where you came on". I replied "I came on in Wolfeboro". They looked at me wide eyed and said "Then I guess you can get off wherever you damn please!"

I'm older and wiser now, I think. I snowmobile to where I ice fish. Typically if I take a truck out it;s after a day or two of becoming very familiar with the ice conditions.

[TJNed]

Originally Posted by FLAG!

Call me a dumb, but I've driven several trucks on the ice on Winni for many years. I've also not driven a truck on the ice many years. Understanding what kind of ice you have is key. Black ice is obviously the safest. Here are some guidelines I use.
1) what other vehicles have been out on the ice. I am never the first truck on the ice
2) drill holes along the path to my destination and record ice quality and thickness.
3) recent weather. Have there been recent thaws?

I wouldn't drive a truck on the ice with fewer than 12" solid ice. Recent years have not been good. I haven't had a truck on the ice since 2006 or 2007 I think.

When I was younger and more foolish I was careless and lucky. I probably drove on 10 inches of ice. In fact one at really dumb moment I drove onto the ice at Brewster Beach in Wolfeboro in my brother's Ford Bronco (sure as hell wasn't taking MY truck out there ), I drove straight across the broads to Meredith. At one point I hit a pressure ridge that I didn't even SEE until I was about 4 feet from it (everything was covered in snow). Fortunately the truck had a good size rancho suspension/lift kit and big tires on it. That truck was AIRBORN. When I arrived in Meredith Bay I stopped about 100 yards from a group of ice fishermen. I walked over and asked where a good place to get off the lake was. They said "probably where you came on". I replied "I came on in Wolfeboro". They looked at me wide eyed and said "Then I guess you can get off wherever you damn please!"

I'm older and wiser now, I think. I snowmobile to where I ice fish. Typically if I take a truck out it;s after a day or two of becoming very familiar with the ice conditions.

Almost sounds like a little alcohol was involved.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

...the Welch Island to Diamond Island hot tub is still there, although my wife thought it was a little smaller today than Sunday.

Agree that it is slightly smaller today but still there. It was down to about 6 deg overnight with an early morning period of almost calm.

Last year there was a similar patch of open water south of Welch but it was not anywhere near as cold. However I don't recall this patch of open water in years prior to that when it was this cold.

Could Sauron have actually rekindled ancient fires in an attempt to reforge the ring? If so, even Ice Nine might be thwarted.