Boating Accident?

[Woodsy]

I found this on the Citizen website....

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...-1/citizen0101

Glad no one was seriously injured!

Woodsy

[The Big Kahuna]

Not exactly exciting since it wasn't two power boats smashing into each other at high speed!

[SIKSUKR]

I think 23 foot boats should be banned from Winni.A speed limit surely would have prevented this accident.Where's the outrage on this one?

[LSBA Joker]

while not using a broad brush, however, seems that the pontoon boat was sitting still, the '72 year old' driver of the Sea Ray drove into the pontoon boat. Injuries were sustained to the '72 year old' while getting off his boat.
It appears certain that the '72 year old' driver should be cited for failure to maintain proper lookout and failure to stay clear by 150', etc. etc.
Could there have been mitigating circumstances that led to the '72 year old driver' to not see an apparently motionless pontoon boat?
before you bash, yes, I do realize and certainly have seen, that most accidents (and near-accidents) and violations are by a much younger and assumedly, inexperienced group.
certainly glad that, luckily, there were no injuries due to the collision.

[Aquadeziac]

Bet the 72 yr old doesn't know what Safe Boater Education is. "Ayuh, been boatin on this heah lake all my life, don't need no steenkin' Boater Education",
"He shoundnta bin sittin right there in fronta me like that"

[Ski Man]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

Not exactly exciting since it wasn't two power boats smashing into each other at high speed!

Thank God they were going so slow and so there were no serious injuries. Imagine if the striking boat had been going 60 or 70 miles per hour? Then the results would have been pretty tragic and this accident would have been a huge story for the speed limit advocates.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ski Man

Thank God they were going so slow and so there were no serious injuries. Imagine if the striking boat had been going 60 or 70 miles per hour? Then the results would have been pretty tragic and this accident would have been a huge story for the speed limit advocates.

Perhaps 70 year olds not 70 mph should be banned
I live 2 blocks from an "assisted living facility" and leave me tell you , watch them blue hairs , they can be murder ,
Watched one go down my street and the only this keeping him in the street was the curb...OMG , glad I don't park in the street.

[RumGuy]

Obvoiusly another case of innattention out on the water. As stated above, a stationary pontoon boat is a noticable object. I suppose it's a good thing that the boat was hit, and not the tubers.

[Ski Man]

Originally Posted by RumGuy

Obvoiusly another case of innattention out on the water. As stated above, a stationary pontoon boat is a noticable object. I suppose it's a good thing that the boat was hit, and not the tubers.

My point was that if someone going 40 mph can't notice a pontoon boat ahead of them and stop in time, then noticing and stopping at 70 seems a bit more difficult, and a lot more dangerous, eh? But I did not intend to get into a discussion about whether blue-haired boaters should be banned from the lake...I was just making what I thought was an obvious observation.

[Woodsy]

This thread was not meant to be a speed limit debate... the guy driving the Searay was not paying attention, plain and simple. I hope he gets charged with reckless operation....

Woodsy

[Ski Man]

Nor was it meant to be a debate about whether "blue hairs" should be allowed to boat on the lake. I am a "blue hair", and my boat is fairly fast, and I have no trouble driving it 60-70 mph without getting into or causing any accidents (I think), so all this has nothing to do with the color of one's hair or his age. I keep at a reasonable speed, keep a good lookout, and obey the rules, as should all. Insulting people because their hair has turned did not help you in he speed limit debate, and it will not help you here.

[RumGuy]

There are good boaters, just like good drivers, of all ages. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on the water should agree that an incindent can occur even with the utmost care. It is inattention, lack of concern, alcohol, or all of the above that seriously compound the risk. actually, some of the older boaters are actually MORE careful due to their experience on the water.
About seven years ago , on a beautiful calm night, I had a boat in front of me (about a half a mile ahead) lose/ shut off its lights. There one minute, gone the next. In the pitch dark, at 25+-MPH, it scared the bejeebus out of me not knowing where they were. I throttled back to a crawl for the rest of the trip, and crawled home. Better safe than sorry.

[SAMIAM]

The 45 mph speed limit on lake George did those people a lot of good.
Errant wakes 20
Speed 0

[Islander]

Every member of the New Hampshire Legislature has seen coverage of the Lake George accident. It will be on their minds when they vote on the speed limit.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

The 45 mph speed limit on lake George did those people a lot of good.
Errant wakes 20
Speed 0

How very true. A huge wake from a 35' Carver plowing at 10 knots can easily capsize a canoe or swamp a 20' bowrider. I've seen it with my own eyes. Just another example that this has nothing to do with speed whatsoever.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by RumGuy

"...There are good boaters, just like good drivers, of all ages. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on the water should agree that an incindent can occur even with the utmost care. It is inattention, lack of concern, alcohol, or all of the above that seriously compound the risk. actually, some of the older boaters are actually MORE careful due to their experience on the water..."

I don't consider myself an older boater, but I do appreciate experience much more now than when I was a 30-something.

Of course, it helped to build and operate three wood boats on Winnipesaukee. (Though they're light and fast, you don't play "bumper cars" with wooden boats).

Today, a boater can be handed the keys and not be required to take a vision test (or a night-vision test). If his guests get wet, he buys a bigger boat. The responsibility should ramp up with size. When it doesn't, it makes headlines.

Inattention is the likely cause here. Though most "news media" reports of collisions "drop-off" from the Internet (and Google), there are dozens of accounts still being maintained on Internet forums of boats colliding with anchored boats, their anchor lines -- and even motionless Jet-Skis. The "close calls" don't make it to the news.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

How very true. A huge wake from a 35' Carver plowing at 10 knots can easily capsize a canoe or swamp a 20' bowrider. I've seen it with my own eyes.

Need waders to read your post - the heap is too deep...

"A huge wake from a 35' Carver plowing at 10 knots"

Either you do not know anything about boats or you are an extremely poor judge of speed.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by GWC...

Need waders to read your post - the heap is too deep...

"A huge wake from a 35' Carver plowing at 10 knots"

Either you do not know anything about boats or you are an extremely poor judge of speed.

Boy, the truth hurts you guys, doesn't it!

[Ski Man]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

How very true. A huge wake from a 35' Carver plowing at 10 knots can easily capsize a canoe or swamp a 20' bowrider. I've seen it with my own eyes. Just another example that this has nothing to do with speed whatsoever.

I disagree completely. Had this cruise boat been travelling 50 mph when it hit the alledged wake, the tragedy would certainly have been far greater. Maybe every person on board would have been killed. (And I do suspect that the cruise boat probably could not go 50 anyway, but that is not the point).
On the other hand, it is now being suspected that the rogue wake was just a story, and that the cause might have been that the cruise boat was turning at too high a rate of speed, causing the unbelted fasteners to shift to the outside and the weight shift to contribute to the flip. Surely then the speed of the boat was a factor and a faster speed would have made things much worse.
The only time one could validly argue that a higher speed would not have made a moving accident worse is where every passenger and crew member had been killed. But so long as one person survived, he should be glad that the speeds were not any faster. This is just common sense, but a surplus of that has never prevented arguments on this forum.
Why do the SL opposers on this forum turn every thread into an argument about why speed was not an issue or an SL is not needed here. Let it go. This was a tragedy, not an excuse to revive the SL debate.

[PROPELLER]

Ski Man, why didn't you let it go? You are talking about the SL in the very post you ask other posters to let it go.

Is it possible that the reason the operator of the Ethan Allen may have turned too fast is because he saw a large wake approaching & was trying to avoid it?

[Woodsy]

Skiman...

Nobody brought up the Speed Limit issue. This thread was originally about a SeaRay that collided with a stationary pontoon boat on LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE. Now it seems we have gotten off course and brought the Lake George tragedy into this thread. Please leave the SPEED LIMIT out of this thread!

That being said, I am sure they are going to find many factors contributed to this tragedy, most of them relatively minor. While speed may yet be a factor, I'll bet when it all comes out in the wash the Ethan Allen was traveling at less than 10mph. If the cruise boat can't go 50mph then I am pretty sure your point is moot!

The Ethan Allen is only 40' long and it was rated to carry 50 people, 48 passengers and 2 crew. We have SeaRays on Lake Winni bigger than this! The capacity of that vessel was set by an old Coast Guard formula that used a weight of 150lbs per person. That in itself is an issue... It has been reported that the boat had a slight list when fully loaded. This indicates that when fully loaded the vessel was top heavy and thus somehwat unstable to begin with.

I am going to wager the accident reconstruction team puts forth the scenario as such: Capt of Ethan Allen notices rogue wake/waves and initiates a hard/emergency turn to avoid the wake striking vessel abeam. Approximate speed 8 knots. (I am surmising this scenario because what other reason would cause a seasoned veteran Capt of 23 years to initiate what was essentially an emergency turn) Ethan Allen is overweight/top heavy from passengers and thier belongings. (See outdated formula above) As the vessel turns sharply, the weight of the passengers shifts, at approximately the same time as rogue wake/waves strike the boat. The combination of the initial instability caused by the top heavy loading of the boat, the hard turn shifting the weight of the passengers, and the wake striking abeam cpasizes the craft. This event could have probably happened without the rogue wakes/waves.

I am guessing the primary cause is going to be the initial overloading of the vessel.


Woodsy

[SAMIAM]

Woodsy,I think you nailed it regarding the overload idea.Man,that's a lot of people on a 40' boat.Too bad the Ethan Allen wasn't doing 70......he would have rode right over that wake.
Also......why is everyone affraid to bring up the speed limit ?....it's the single biggest issue in the lakes region

[Woodsy]

Samiam...

The problem with the speed limit is that it is really a very emotionally contentious and divisive issue, causing all sorts of ugliness. Don Z. the webmaster has pretty much made it clear that he doesn't want this forum to be used as forum to stage a public debate in regards to the speed limit. He has unfortunately gotten all sorts of flack from both sides.

I respect that decision.

Woodsy