Solid evidence points to late, record ice-out on Lake Winnipesaukee

[pcmc]

Originally Posted by Tired of Waiting

Guess they should have had fewer cars back when the earth was warmer than now, say about 1,100 BC.

Temp swings are normal. I'm not saying that man may not contribute a little to it but volcanos and the sun far out weigh anything man has or can do except atomic war winter.


ToW

Interesting chart, but are there really accurate records from 2200BC following the earths temperature??

[capewx]

Once said, and this is a true statement "Some are weatherwise but most our otherwise" Alot of the otherwise are on this board.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by capewx

"Some are weatherwise but most [are] otherwise" A lot of the otherwise are on this board.

I believe the highest concentrations of the most dangerous "otherwise" can be found in Wash, DC; at the UN; and at the Weather Channel. People on this board can do no harm; the other concentrations aim to do the most harm possible.

[Tired of Waiting]

Originally Posted by capewx

Once said, and this is a true statement "Some are weatherwise but most our otherwise" Alot of the otherwise are on this board.

Thanks for your valued addition to the debate. I see you backed you position up with scientific data to support you hypothesis.

ToW

[Newbiesaukee]

I guess it is hoping too much to stay on topic, fascinating though the subject is. Particularly as the debate will resolve the issue of climate change on our Forum and the world is waiting.

[jrc]

Quick question, is there anything anybody on this forum could say to change your opinion on global warming? No, me either, so let's stick to ice out.

Please hurry!

[ushaggerb]

Originally Posted by jrc

Quick question, is there anything anybody on this forum could say to change your opinion on global warming? No, me either, so let's stick to ice out.

Please hurry!

I'm sitting in California. It was 87 on Wednesday. Sounds great to some. Just that, it's so bone dry out here, there are not-insignificant communities in this state that, if we don't get 4+ inches between now end end of May (doubtful), will be out of water. Have to be shipped in by tanker trucks. Now do some scary math. The Central California Valley, where a LOT of your fruit and vegetables come from, will be out of water in+/- 60 years. The only thing that will change that is if the sea levels rise high enough, as currently predicted by 2100, to flood the Central California Valley with salt water.

You guys are up to your eyeballs in cold, white fluffy stuff, but a LOT of the rest of the world is baked dry. Governments, institutions and corporations are already jocky-ing for positioning against water supply. Not suggesting there isn't noise in the data. But, in the southwest and west, the climate has changed, whether man-made or not, and what's left on or under the ground we're chewing threw so fast, it's going to get difficult.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by ushaggerb

I'm sitting in California. It was 87 on Wednesday. Sounds great to some. Just that, it's so bone dry out here, there are not-insignificant communities in this state that, if we don't get 4+ inches between now end end of May (doubtful), will be out of water. Have to be shipped in by tanker trucks. Now do some scary math. The Central California Valley, where a LOT of your fruit and vegetables come from, will be out of water in+/- 60 years. The only thing that will change that is if the sea levels rise high enough, as currently predicted by 2100, to flood the Central California Valley with salt water.

You guys are up to your eyeballs in cold, white fluffy stuff, but a LOT of the rest of the world is baked dry. Governments, institutions and corporations are already jocky-ing for positioning against water supply. Not suggesting there isn't noise in the data. But, in the southwest and west, the climate has changed, whether man-made or not, and what's left on or under the ground we're chewing threw so fast, it's going to get difficult.

California made decisions years ago to allow billions if not trillions of gallons of water to be diverted from agricultural and municipal use back to the rivers to help "endangered" fish like the darter fish. It hasn't worked out so well for the fish and now water is in short supply.

I don't come here to read or write this stuff, but since this topic continues on, I'll just point out, the designator for global warming has changed to global climate change. The models predicting rapid disastrous change have not panned out. The scientific community is certainly not settled on the predictions of the IPCC, which are alarmist. The climate has been changing for billions of years, the evidence that this is being caused by human fossil fuel use is dubious at best. The proposed solutions, some being implemented, are a financial and economic disaster, resulting in expensive energy, solving nothing and, as usual, disproportionally negatively affecting the most vulnerable among us, the elderly and poor.

California has gotten itself into a pickle to satisfy some environmentalists who value fish over people and whose predictions of how the fish will be saved have not panned out since this madness started 20 years ago.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by ITD

... California has gotten itself into a pickle to satisfy some environmentalists who value fish over people and whose predictions of how the fish will be saved have not panned out since this madness started 20 years ago.

Also to mention that California has grown its population and water usage in defiance of a lack of sufficient and reliable water for many decades. They have tried to "manage" the issue but the reality is they have too many people and too much water demand for the water resources available. The projection of worse situation to come in the future is no surprise and doesn't need any "change" of climate to make it happen. California's water usage was unsustainable to begin with.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Also to mention that California has grown its population and water usage in defiance of a lack of sufficient and reliable water for many decades. They have tried to "manage" the issue but the reality is they have too many people and too much water demand for the water resources available. The projection of worse situation to come in the future is no surprise and doesn't need any "change" of climate to make it happen. California's water usage was unsustainable to begin with.

....AND the water is coming from a state that is having water shortages of it's own as well. Colorado's front range has exploded with population. Water management has been a big problem there for a long time.

But I'm sure we will soon be blaming the increase in population on "climate change" as well.

[ushaggerb]

Guys. You're missing the point. To you, out there where it's wintry cold, the climate doesn't look like it's changed. To the West, couldn't be clearer.

I'm not from California. Grew up on the Lake and call it home. California's a stupider state than you give it credit for

[geordie]

LA sucks the west coast dry, taking huge amounts of water from the Colorado river and even from northern California. But San Francisco is about as far from LA as Winnipesaukee is from Philadelphia PA. Water from Lake Shasta is poured in to the Sacramento river system and flows more than two hundred miles south to the Sacramento river delta, near Mountain Home it is pumped up to the start of the aquaduct which takes it near 400 miles south to San Bernadino. Shasta alone can contain 4.5 million acre feet of water.

Considering how little rain there is in the west it has always surprised me how much food is grown there and how wasteful it seems. But the reservoirs in the Sierras contain years worth of water.

Thinking CA is stupid and this doesn't affect you, now that would be stupid. Lot's of bad things happening in the world right now, politically and physically. If the west and the plains stop producing food... well you don't grow much in the North East, do you?

And the latest climate change news, even only looking at historical data, not modelling where we are going, says it's 99% certain that humans did this.
http://www.ibtimes.com/there-99-chan...ta-not-1570996

I really don't care what anyone believes, I am looking forward to seeing high tide closing the road the Newcastle from Portsmouth. The way to look at it is that we are watching a 100,000 ton train that has been pushed. Now that we can see it moving towards us our chances of stopping it are minimal. We are going to be run down. But believe what you like, it won't change anything.

[Tired of Waiting]

Originally Posted by pcmc

Interesting chart, but are there really accurate records from 2200BC following the earths temperature??

Yes there are.

In the polar ice cap cores. In the earths crust cores. To name a couple.

Sample cores tell a lot about what the climate was in history. Example, coal is formed from deposits that need tropical like climate to form. So the coal located in Canada comes from tropical forest that were there millions of years ago. How about dinosaurs? They needed warm climate to live and could not survive in Montana today but were there in the past.

So if you are asking did some weather person take the temp of the day and write it down in a book? The answer is no but the earth recorded its' own temperature history in the rocks, swamps, ice caps, etc.

ToW