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#1 |
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As far as an easy to do "starter" idea, the docks at the Weirs are designed for boats much narrower than today's boats. This makes it hard for folks to boat to the Weirs during boating season. A beamy boat can block several other boats from using the adjacent docking space.
If a few of the fingers were removed, so that the dock configuration became more like the Meredith docks, accessability would improve. Leave some of the docking the way it is today and restrict that docking to boats with a beam of 8' 6" or less and force the more beamy boats to the larger dock openings made by removing the fingers. This is a "low hanging fruit" idea, something inexpensive and easy to do that would bring some fairly quick results. R2B |
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#2 | |
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#3 |
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Reading this thread is a little unsettling seeing we just bought a house in Laconia. My husband would come up with his family when he was young and always wanted to live here so here we are. We bought in a great neighborhood on Lake Winnisquam. I thought the downtown looked a little shady, but it has such promise. Here in NJ, Wildwood Beach was going down, and they took the old and made it new. People remembered the do op Hotels and dances so they brought them back but new and beautiful. it is doing very well. Perhaps if they turned our old memories into new ones it would bring back the people who loved the place as children. What I'm trying to say is people want to relive their old memories but with a clean, new, modern look. A six-flags type park would be great. And don't forget the skiing.
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#4 |
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Look at the change in lifestyles. In the 50's a lot of lakeside motels were built and these fueled a lot of small restaurants and other family businesses. Nobody owned their own boat. By the 80's these motels and restaurants, with huge numbers of summer jobs, were no longer viable, so they went condo and everybody has their own boat.
So, if you are still defining the Weirs as a few hundred yards from the sign on Rt. 3 to the old Grange Hall, what do you have? Small lots, no parking and long walks pushing strollers and pulling kids. Today's businesses need large flat lots with lots of parking, or public transportation of sorts. Compare the present Funspot with their starting location on the second floor of Tarlson's Arcade building. Small operation, no parking grown to "world's largest" with lots of parking. I agree that docks should be removed to improve accessibility, and that's cheap. A dock master would be a huge asset on busy days. After that, redefine the Weirs as an area from McIntire Circle (that's really Gilford) north to the Meredith line, or maybe up to Funspot. There are some larger plots that could be developed if they needed a little less parking. Remember the double decker bus that Funspot ran at its own expense? A similar bus (or Molly the Trolley as in Wolfeboro) could run a circuit going up Rt 3, up and back past the train station, maybe to AKWA Marine (there's some new development $$ for the naysayers BTW) and up to the Winnipesaukee Museum, or Funspot. A couple of these on summer days so I could get a ride every ½ hour or so would be perfect. Now I could come by boat and easily get to these remote sites, my kids could ride from my condo on Paugus Bay up to the beach or to some new attraction and the traffic would be much easier to deal with. The drive-in used to have benches down front and you could come by boat and walk in for a quarter. Everything could be attended by my kids with their baby-sitter or elder sibling. Whether it’s a resort hotel or some other attraction, cheap, fun transportation is key. Think of how spread out Disney World is. They've made the bus, the boats, the train and the monorail part of the attraction, and you rarely think of the time and distance between parking or your hotel and the actual destination. Summary: Redefine "the Weirs" and add great transportation. |
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#5 |
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Great ideas Descant. To make the transportation even more interesting, how about putting in dockage for a water taxi at strategic locations along your defined "Weirs" area and have that be a minimal fee ride to get from one location to another in addition to the trolly (which would be faster but not as much fun)?
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#6 |
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Know I've said it before..going to say it again (just in case someone reading these can actually do something about the Weirs). There is nothing wrong with nostalgia. Look at the Weirs sign!!! I love seeing it lit up every spring to fall. The place should be brought back to the past by way of the future. An amusement park with rides parents/grandparents can enjoy and rides the kids would be excited about. I remember Paragon Park at Nantasket beach as a kid.Great summer fun! A casino would just create traffic woes! Having a water taxi would steal business from the Doris and the train. Maybe even the Mount. We wouldn't want that. The Weirs is a seasonal destination Weirs beach(ice in makes it that way.New England winters and all)
A seasonal destination that is done right can certainly draw people in. I vote nostalgia!!!! |
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#7 | |
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Water Taxi: Tried and Failed Parasailing: Tried and Failed SeaTow: Tried and Failed Party Barge: Tried and Failed Sailboat Tours: Queen of Winnipesaukee: Tried and failed. I continue to wonder how the Mount Washington stays in business. Most days when I see it go by there does not seem to be enough people aboard to even pay for the fuel. I hope it is here forever. and I think that it is a great way for tourists to see the lake. but in reality it is one more example of the difficulty of operating a profitable business in the Lakes Region. I do not mean to be negative but I do understand the difficulties that every business and property owner in the Weirs Beach area faces. |
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#8 |
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Would it be fair to say that in its heyday, the Weirs was packed not so much with locals, or folks who owned cabins and were here for long periods of time, but by day trippers and week-enders, usually from Massachusetts?
If so: can anything be done to bring them back? |
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#9 | |
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#10 | |
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Who wants to be the only 4-season business in a 1-season town. You need a group of investors to come to the table at the same time to create a core in which to build out from. As more and more property becomes vacant and run down, this gets closer to reality. Hopefully your favorites can hold on until that point in time, but smart investors are not going to just throw money at that area until they feel certain that it is going to produce a high return. That will require a weight shift in the area of those on board with the change vs those that want to minimize their investment against return. You only need to look as far as Meredith to find two of the largest investors in this state that focus on hospitality. Neither of them have shown any signs of slowing down their growth. One of those gentlemen already has a large stake in the Weir's! |
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#11 | |
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#12 | |
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If this is the result of city neglect, it's a complete shame. |
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#13 |
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The downward slide of the Weirs has many facets....
A state that treats Weirs beach like an orphan... unless of course its Bike Week, then its the Police Overtime Fund. A city who has treated the Weirs like an orphan... taking the money but spending very little. Little to no plan for the future, grinding Bike Week into the ground. Property owners in the Weirs who invest little or no money in the upkeep of their property or businesses. A completely changed demographic. We once had booming motel business with a large turnover of vacationers weekly... now we have a large amount of condos with very little turnover. This means less $$$ for businesses in the Weirs. The theory that property values will drop to the point where a year round business becomes viable is silly. There isn't a year round population to support a recreational/tourist business. Meredith has done well because the city allowed NH Hospitality to essentially have a monopoly on the property around Meredith Bay. They did an awesome job with it no doubt. But there is very little to do there. You have some cool shops and some restaurants. The Weirs needs a plan... and that's a very contentious issue. As we have seen in this thread, some people want family activities, of which the Weirs already has a few. Others, myself included would rather things be of an adult nature. Throw in some property owners who don't care at all. The city/state cannot make the Baldi family clean up that eyesore that was the Saloon. They cannot make any of the property owners do much of anything. The end result is nothing changes.... until the rules/laws change. Until the city & state look at what they have and spend some $$$ to improve the area. Woodsy
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#14 |
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I would say that the population would support a year round business. People just need to think outside the box.
Take Jay Peak for example, a run down property that was purchased for % of its value. Investors with forward thinking and the capital to realize the potential. How many people laughed when they heard about an indoor water park, now you have to reserve your spot days in advance to ensure access, anytime of the year! That area is far more remote than Laconia in regard to population grab. The Weir's is an investment gold mine, it just hasn't reached its value yet. The lots in the Weir's are small, you need quite a few of them to make something worthwhile that has multi-demographic and multi-interest draw. If you think that your property values are not dropping as your neighbors pave theirs lots one at a time, that's silly. It's happening and I guarantee that the people with a plan (and the capital to finance it) are watching and they won't be building single one-off independents. Other than the property values, I agree with Woodsy completely. If I had a vested interest I would start looking at who has control over these decisions at the state and city level, because the ones with a hand in jar are certainly helping the decline along. Maybe that is what needs to happen, I don't know, but the water has a funky smell to it. |
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#15 |
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Jay peak had huge amounts of land and very few neighbors close by. They had the space and the water resources to build that water park. They also already had a ski mountain. If a waterpark were to be built in the area, I would look to Gunstock.
I live in the Weirs year round, and I can tell you without a doubt, its a ghost town in the winter. You have the Lobster Pound, Tower Hill Tavern and the Gringo and Looney Bin. The ONLY tourist type business open year round is Funspot. Everything else is boarded up.... In the winter people drive 45 minutes north to Lincoln... or to North Conway. Even Meredith, with all of their NH Hospitality hotels, is a ghost town in the winter... with the obvious exception of Pond Hockey & Fishing Derby. I would love to know the occupancy rate in the Winter... my guess is 30% - maybe 40%. You really only have a few pieces of property "in Play" at the Weirs and IMHO they are too small to make the Weirs a year round destination. The Pier... been for sale forever. Minimal owner investment made to keep property up. The Wide Open Saloon property.... but the Baldis didn't file a new site plan to rebuild on the old footprint within a year, so now the setbacks make the property very hard to build on. The Waterslide property.... decent footprint with odd shaped sloped lot. Definitely buildable, perfect spot for a hotel. But the owner wants to lease it. You will see Beer tent & vendors there for bike week, maybe a clam shack in the yellow building. but little else. The Surf Coaster property... been for sale forever. The city did vote in a zoning change to encourage a hotel complex there. But no nibbles. The arcades.... minimal owner upkeep and while nostalgic, they are pretty run down. The hotels 5 miles away in Meredith make it very hard for a hotel in the Weirs to be viable. So what can the Weirs do different from Meredith and still attract people. My answer is the same that made the Weirs famous in the first place... Nightlife. Bars, restaurants, music venues. Give people a reason to come here. Relax the rules a little, let people walk around with liquor or beer (in plastic of course). Let the venues have outside music past 10:00pm. Maybe bend the rules so the Baldis or someone else can rebuild on the old Saloon footprint. Tax breaks to the property owners that do substantial upgrades to their properties... etc etc. Woodsy
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#16 |
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I would have to agree that whatever goes there would need to be able to support itself over a short year.
I know it would be tough for any type of restaurant to survive but I always thought an A&W type drive-in would be great in the spot. Even a Sonic drive-in I suppose. Too bad the season is so short in NH. |
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#17 |
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For Sale or For Lease.
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#18 |
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The situation with the Weirs is not unique. Areas that have a huge asset (the lake, hence the Jay comparison) and get run down have a history of being transformed from the outside. I do not own property in the area, so my point of view does not take that into account, but I believe we can agree that it will likely get worse before it gets better.
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#19 |
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I was riding around a few weeks ago and went by an empty Cheshire fairgrounds. Maybe this is the de-facto model for Weirs.
A few transient events and empty the rest of the time. Obviously we have bike week, now add a few smaller events and presto pocket full of money with no risk or investment. It's not my ideal solution but it seems inevitable. |
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#20 |
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With regard to Jay Peaks water park, that was not Jays or local money financing that. Almost all of it was EB-5 money from non citizens that invest large amounts of money in return for citizenship. FWIW
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#21 |
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Agreed, the investment came from outside, as do most of these deals. Some are a waste of money due to a lack of innovative thinking (Ragged is a great example of this), they just throw money at an idea without thinking all through.
My point was that with the asset of the lake frontage, someone has their eye on that area and it is easier to purchase a large piece of the area, one small chunk at a time. Most people don't pay close attention to these sales, they get a bunch of hype and speculation in the beginning, people stop talking about it, then all of a sudden the lot gets cleared and sits in a holding pattern. These properties are owned by LLC's, which in this state can be owed by other LLC's or S-Corp's and there is no regulation on the length of that chain. Research could give insight on the common piece to this puzzle. There are 3 very large abutting pieces of property that fit and are under mutual control, despite what their tax cards read. Even if it takes 20 years to fill in the puzzle, the water front is not going away and any current or future zoning can be navigated and worked around by a moderately competent individual, it just takes research and determination. |
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#22 | |
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While these points are very good observations, it still doesn't really address what can be done in terms of turning around the area. As indicated before, there needs to be long range planning and identifying a certain goals they want to attain. For example, just going on the city's website, their master plan is dated 2007, which is 7 years old already and very much outdated. One thing they can do, and there is state and/or Federal money available is to do streetscaping (trees, median strip and etc). Allow street vendors along the boulevard, and have licenses available annually. Again these are not earth changing moves, but it will allow for a better experience during the summer months. Partner with local area institutions to do a "Weirs Weekend" and etc - Discounts at local eateries and etc. Again this is where the city and local leaders are failing... Being reactive rather than pro-active. It's a shame I live and work in Boston - as I would LOVE to get involved in the planning and restoration of a great lakeside draw. |
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#23 |
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http://laconiadailysun.com/index.php...or-master-plan
Director outlines timeline for development of new Laconia Master Plan Published Date Wednesday, 14 May 2014 12:52 LACONIA — Planning Director Shanna Saunders outlined a budget of some $120,000, consisting entirely of grants, and timetable of between 24 and 30 months for the preparation and completion of a new Master Plan to the City Council this week. Saunders told the councilors that the 2014-2015 budget appropriates $20,000 for the Master Plan, which together with equal appropriations in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 brings the total allocated for the project to $60,000. She explained that municipal funding would be offset in whole or in part by grants. Saunders said that the Orton Family Foundation of Middlebury Vermont and Denver, Colorado has awarded the city $75,000 worth of in-kind technical services, including services, analysis, mapping, communication and outreach. The Carsey Institute of the University of New Hampshire, which administered the New Hampshire Listens program, has contributed similar services valued at $25,000. And the New Hampshire Charitable Foundation has underwritten the preparation of the Master with a cash grant of $20,000. Saunders said that she expects to begin work on the Master Plan in June and complete the first four chapters of the plan — community character, land use, economic development and housing — in a year and aim to finish the other chapters — transportation, natural resources, cultural and historic resources and community facilities and services — by December 2016. State law recommends that municipalities revise their master plans every five to 10 years. The city last adopted its master plan in May, 2007. |
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#24 |
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Sounds like they are planning to plan. That's akin to getting ready to get ready!
Many solid ideas have been presented, but the missing factor is money. What is really needed is a man (or woman) with a vision.....and the resources to implement on his ideas. Master plans are great. You get a new one every 7 to 10 years according to the post above....at a current cost of about $20K. And nothing changes. |
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#25 | |
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I would like to know how you get on the list to be paid $20K to come up with one of these plans? A few of these a year and I could golf as much as I want! |
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#26 |
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Personally I think I am going to purchase one of these open lots and put up a parking garage. Think of all the Bike Week vendors I could get in there. I would also be in a position to capitalize on the new master plan that will transform the area in 2017 or was that 2008.
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#27 | |
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#28 |
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Well there is an established formula when dealing with a blighted area to resurrect it like the proverbial phoenix rising from the ashes. Case in point, look at Atlantic City NJ. Will it happen in the Weirs? From my point of view, slim to none (and Slim has been spotted leaving the building).
Bottom line is this state needs money and I am mystified why the legislation does not approve legalized casino gambling. |
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#29 |
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The owner of Paradise Club sum it up nicely as to the fate of the Weirs in a recent article about extending the days for the Bike Week beer tents.
'When the owners want to go left, the council goes right. When the owners wants to go up the council goes down'. Seems like the Weirs business owners are at their wit ends!
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#30 | |
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#31 | |
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With the Weirs being challenged with the single season troubles, could it be best to design the area to remain a single season area? It might be best to do one season really well, instead of four seasons just OK. What if local business owner"s" that survive year round were to invest in summer attractions there? Back to four season thoughts...Another thought (if it could be possible). I can't visualize the layout exactly, but could a strip of shops/diners/attractions be built at the boat docks level 'under' the boardwalk/sidewalk? The boardwalk/sidewalk would be widened and extended out over the lower level shops as a roof so you would be standing on the top of building and not affect the view at all OR affect any of the properties on the opposite side of the street. This could allow access for all seasons from the lake. Via foot, snowmobile, ice skates(?), ATV, boat, ect... The train station has a lower level so I think it may be possible. |
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