Wolfeboro Police Commissioner

[Crusty]

I don't spend a lot of time in Wolfeboro, nor am I familiar with its racial make-up. I do not know the "gentleman" in question. However, in my own life, I have encountered real racists (on both sides) and some "apparent" racists. It is my considered opinion that you cannot determine a person's true racial bias based on a single word in a private conversation regarding the relative merits of the President of the United States. Words carry different meanings and weights, depending on a person's background and the context of use.

My point is that rather than defining 82 years of life by the private use of a single word, let's look at his whole and current record. Is he competent at his job? If not, remove him on that basis. Does racial bias affect how he does his job? If yes, then shame on Wolfeboro for keeping him this long. Is he too old? [Careful: age discrimination] Is his mind going? Is he unpleasant to work with? Does he have any black friends? Does he have any white friends? [Judging from the other posts, I would have to say "no".]

I'm sorry, but the utterance of one word, without backup material, is a story worthy only of the laziest journalist or of someone with their own agenda. If this man is, indeed, a "racist", then let's see the rest of the evidence. It can't be that well hidden. Let's not waste our efforts creating "racists", instead let's identify the real ones --and, of course, Copeland may well turn out to be one-- by examining their deeds and actions. Then we can be well rid of them.

[winterh]

Well said Crusty. Finally someone who thinks logically and without hysterics. Actions matter. Not private thoughts or words. If you treat the individuals you meet and come in contact with respectfully then that is all that should matter. At this point there is no proof he did otherwise. The country is going bankrupt and people are worrying about some old man with little power who used a bad word.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Crusty

It is my considered opinion that you cannot determine a person's true racial bias based on a single word in a private conversation regarding the relative merits of the President of the United States. Words carry different meanings and weights, depending on a person's background and the context of use...

My point is that rather than defining 82 years of life by the private use of a single word, let's look at his whole and current record...

I'm sorry, but the utterance of one word, without backup material, is a story worthy only of the laziest journalist or of someone with their own agenda. If this man is, indeed, a "racist", then let's see the rest of the evidence. It can't be that well hidden. Let's not waste our efforts creating "racists", instead let's identify the real ones --and, of course, Copeland may well turn out to be one-- by examining their deeds and actions. Then we can be well rid of them.

When Copeland was first heard speaking the word, he was in a public, not private, setting. He was speaking loudly enough that at least one person who was not part of his conversation overheard him. When Copeland was alerted to the fact that he was heard saying this word in a public place, in reference to the president of the United States, he doubled down and admitted that he had, in fact, said what he was being accused of saying. He went even further and refused to apologize, saying that he meant exactly what he said, and he did this in writing. How's that for deeds and actions?

So no, not private. No, not just one word that was perhaps heard out of context. That should be plenty of "evidence" for any reasonable person. Copeland is certainly entitled to his opinion, and the people of Wolfeboro are entitled to have elected officials who represent their values.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Crusty

I don't spend a lot of time in Wolfeboro, nor am I familiar with its racial make-up. I do not know the "gentleman" in question. However, in my own life, I have encountered real racists (on both sides) and some "apparent" racists. It is my considered opinion that you cannot determine a person's true racial bias based on a single word in a private conversation regarding the relative merits of the President of the United States. Words carry different meanings and weights, depending on a person's background and the context of use.

My point is that rather than defining 82 years of life by the private use of a single word, let's look at his whole and current record. Is he competent at his job? If not, remove him on that basis. Does racial bias affect how he does his job? If yes, then shame on Wolfeboro for keeping him this long. Is he too old? [Careful: age discrimination] Is his mind going? Is he unpleasant to work with? Does he have any black friends? Does he have any white friends? [Judging from the other posts, I would have to say "no".]

I'm sorry, but the utterance of one word, without backup material, is a story worthy only of the laziest journalist or of someone with their own agenda. If this man is, indeed, a "racist", then let's see the rest of the evidence. It can't be that well hidden. Let's not waste our efforts creating "racists", instead let's identify the real ones --and, of course, Copeland may well turn out to be one-- by examining their deeds and actions. Then we can be well rid of them.

Very well written!

[Newbiesaukee]

One fact is clear...this public figure defended, in public , his use of this particular word to describe the President of the United States.

If there is any rational human being in this country who can defend this specific act in this specific circumstance then things are even worse than I feared.

Certainly it his right to say whatever he wishes but it is my right to find this despicable in any situation but intolerable in a public official. Whether he "deserves" to be called a racist based on one utterance IS arguable and totally irrelevant.

[sluggo]

As Mr. Copeland's point of view was overheard in a public place it still effects our first amendment right to free speech. I don't condone what was said in public but I do feel that the values of what this country is based on are going down the toilet and I fear for the future generations of this great country. And for Ms. Otool that has lived in Wolfeboro for only four months to make a crusade over this open remark has brought a dark cloud to us in the lakes region that will effect this area for a long time with the stigma that it brings . I am sure that when Ms. Otool walks into a local eatery now everyone will know who she is and keep there opinions to themselves or just get up and leave to avoid being on the next national or world news story.....

[tis]

Originally Posted by sluggo

As Mr. Copeland's point of view was overheard in a public place it still effects our first amendment right to free speech. I don't condone what was said in public but I do feel that the values of what this country is based on are going down the toilet and I fear for the future generations of this great country. And for Ms. Otool that has lived in Wolfeboro for only four months to make a crusade over this open remark has brought a dark cloud to us in the lakes region that will effect this area for a long time with the stigma that it brings . I am sure that when Ms. Otool walks into a local eatery now everyone will know who she is and keep there opinions to themselves or just get up and leave to avoid being on the next national or world news story.....

Very nicely said, sluggo. We all know what the man said was not nice, however, don't we have the right to say what we want to any more? I am very bothered by this fact that lately people do seem to have to be very careful of what they say- we don't have freedom of speech now I guess.

[Rusty]

This thread is going to turn into a Republican vs Democrat argument and should be locked.

[Crusty]

Originally Posted by Rusty

This thread is going to turn into a Republican vs Democrat argument and should be locked.

Self-fulfilling prophesy?

This is the first use of either or those terms in this thread. Also, no mention of "conservative" or "liberal" at all. Racial bias is rooted in ignorance, not political bent. There are folks that like to yell "racist" to deflect attention from their own doings, but that, too, is independent of political "flavor".

My thoughts on the matter can be summed up in a few words. [Please note that the word "you" is a general term, and does not necessarily apply to any member of this forum.]

If you are a racist, you are an idiot and I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate you. If you are not a racist, but use language that makes people think that you are, then you are also an idiot. In the latter case, you have my sympathy --but not much. Finally, if you use race-baiting, falsely accuse another of being a racist, use the term without knowing what it means, or tar with a broad brush any community or group that contains a racist, you are despicable.

They don't call me "Crusty" fer nuthin'...

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Crusty

Self-fulfilling prophesy?

This is the first use of either or those terms in this thread. Also, no mention of "conservative" or "liberal" at all. Racial bias is rooted in ignorance, not political bent. There are folks that like to yell "racist" to deflect attention from their own doings, but that, too, is independent of political "flavor".

My thoughts on the matter can be summed up in a few words. [Please note that the word "you" is a general term, and does not necessarily apply to any member of this forum.]

If you are a racist, you are an idiot and I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate you. If you are not a racist, but use language that makes people think that you are, then you are also an idiot. In the latter case, you have my sympathy --but not much. Finally, if you use race-baiting, falsely accuse another of being a racist, use the term without knowing what it means, or tar with a broad brush any community or group that contains a racist, you are despicable.

They don't call me "Crusty" fer nuthin'...

Well said. This has nothing to do with politics. Sorry Rusty.

[Rusty]

Calling the President of the United states the "N" word has nothing to do with politics?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Calling the President of the United states the "N" word has nothing to do with politics?

That is correct. It is about one man's prejudice. This prejudice just happened to be directed at a public official in this incidence. That has nothing to do with politics.

[Rusty]

These are the words out of the commissioners mouth and not my words about whether it's political or not:

"In the parking lot after the meeting, Copeland told one woman that when he called Obama “that f------ n-----,” he was speaking politically and not racially."

http://www.concordmonitor.com/news/1...led-at-meeting

[Crusty]

Originally Posted by Rusty

These are the words out of the commissioners mouth and not my words about whether it's political or not:

"In the parking lot after the meeting, Copeland told one woman that when he called Obama “that f------ n-----,” he was speaking politically and not racially." [Emphasis added]

http://www.concordmonitor.com/news/1...led-at-meeting

It would appear that Mr. Copeland fits into my second category: not a real racist, just an idiot (and an ill-tempered one, at that) with a big mouth.

Has anyone turned-up any other "racist" evidence against the good Commissioner? I would have expected to see some allegations by now. I really think we can dismiss the whole thing as just an idiot who really dislikes the President's job performance, not his race, but is too damn stubborn to admit that he screwed-up when he was shooting-off his mouth. Perhaps we can take up a collection and send him a thesaurus.

You know something else? I'm sitting here in Columbus, Ohio and if this is the biggest problem you have in Wolfeboro, you are indeed blessed.

[Rusty]

I agree with Crusty.

Politics can make some people really look foolish and this guy did just that.

Sorry for bringing up politics in this forum but it is what it is and Mr. Copeland hates Democrats and not black people in general. IMO that is.

[PENIVISA]

Lets attack this problem with rants and name calling, just don't use the "N" word. Idiot, moron, loser, etc. is ok. Attack, attack, attack, I'm not sticking up for someone's unacceptable behavior or choice of words. Especially a town official. I will say I'll take responsibility for my own shortcomings. God knows I have them. Matter of fact the last time I (Probably ) made a mistake is when I decided to post this. My life hasn't always been honorable, honest and pure.
Hope fully I was part of the solution and not part of the problem today.
Tomorrow I'll try to help someone along the way and count my Blessings.
One which I look forward to spending next weekend on the lake.
Love this forum....................

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I agree with Crusty.

Politics can make some people really look foolish and this guy did just that.

Sorry for bringing up politics in this forum but it is what it is and Mr. Copeland hates Democrats and not black people in general. IMO that is.

So he's prejudiced against democrats and black people....no, he's not racist. So how does he feel about black democrats? Give me a break, this man does not deserve to hold any public office.

[Crusty]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

So he's prejudiced against democrats and black people....no, he's not racist. So how does he feel about black democrats? Give me a break, this man does not deserve to hold any public office.

Whoa there... That is NOT what Rusty said. His post states "...Copeland hates Democrats and not black people in general." [Emphasis added]

This is exactly how angry mobs of townspeople with pitchforks get started. I don't recall anything about "prejudiced against democrats" nor "black democrats". We DO know how he feels about one black democrat in particular. His incredibly stupid and ignorant remark aside, we do not know that Copeland is really a racist in the TRUE sense of the word.

And since the thread keeps oscillating about the central point in an ever-widening arc, perhaps some clarification is in order:

There are exactly three "races": Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid. If you are a "racist", you make decisions based upon a person's racial identity. Thus, voting FOR Obama because of his Negroid ancestry is just as racist as voting AGAINST him for the same reason. You can, however, despise --or love-- him for ANY other reason and NOT be a racist.

This means that you can hate all Democrats/Republicans without being racist, since political affiliation is not a "race". You can dislike Mexicans or Canadians and not be racist because this involves nationality. Same goes for religious persuasion. I'm not suggesting that generalizations are a good thing; Most prejudices are ill-advised. [Except, perhaps, not liking bagpipes.]

If we can just tone down the rhetoric a bit, take a deep breath, and carefully consider what we ourselves think and say, perhaps Bill O'Reilly will quit mentioning Wolfeboro. As for me, I'm going over to the Restaurant forum and look longingly at upthesaukee's picture of Pop's onion rings.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.

Some should heed this advice.

[HomeWood]

The word racism will have more meaning when it is not tolerated from all sides. Until then, it is a boring and pointless conversation. We cannot expect anything to get better when some racism is tolerated because it is somehow politically correct. I do not want to go way into politics, so I'll end it there.

What surprised me most about this story is that Wolfeboro has a police commissioner.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

What surprised me most about this story is that Wolfeboro has a police commissioner.

Right, I was thinking I was the only one that thought it is utterly ridiculous that a town that wouldn't even be classified as mid-sized has not only one, but three commissioners.

The voters of Wolfeboro should really be asking themselves why this position description can't be handled by the Chief. They should also be questioning their criteria for selection, because they have voted some seriously questionable people into this office. Giving citizens power over the police force, apparently goes directly to your head!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Right, I was thinking I was the only one that thought it is utterly ridiculous that a town that wouldn't even be classified as mid-sized has not only one, but three commissioners.

The voters of Wolfeboro should really be asking themselves why this position description can't be handled by the Chief. They should also be questioning their criteria for selection, because they have voted some seriously questionable people into this office. Giving citizens power over the police force, apparently goes directly to your head!

One more (if I may and then I will shut-up)

I agree with jmen24 and therefore it is time to put this on a the ballot at the next election:


TITLE VII
SHERIFFS, CONSTABLES, AND POLICE OFFICERS


CHAPTER 105-C
POLICE COMMISSIONS


Section 105-C:2
105-C:2 Referendum. – The following questions shall be submitted to the voters of a town on the regular ballot for the election of town officers if a petition is presented to the selectmen in accordance with RSA 39:3 requesting the same:
I. "Shall the government of the police department of the town of __________ be entrusted to a police commission?''
II. "If so, shall such police commissioners be chosen by:
(a) Popular election at town election; or
(b) Appointment of the governor with consent of the council?''

[secondcurve]

A little clarification on the issue. Copeland's initial comment was verbal and it was overheard by private citizen Jane O'Toole. Given the verbal nature of the comment and the fact it was a private conversation, in a public venue, we can debate whether political correctness has gone too far. etc. However, Copeland's response to Ms. O'Toole's complaint was IN WRITING! The following excerpt from Copeland's WRITTEN response follows and is taken from this week's Granite State News: "I believe I did use the "N" word in reference to the current occupant of the Whitehouse. For this I do not apologize - he meets and exceeds my criteria for such." There are other goodies in Copeland's letter to O'Toole but I think this comment gives everyone a flavor of his incompetence. Basically Copeland's written response is quite similar to Donald Sterling's follow-up interview with Andersen Cooper.......talk about stupid!!

The issues I have beyond the obvious are as follows:

1) The town of Wolfeboro is now highly susceptible to lawsuits brought by any minority who is apprehended by the Wolfeboro police for a crime;

2) What is happening with the Wolfeboro police department? A former commissioner was apprehended for a massive drug smuggling crime. A couple years back another Wolfeboro officer was fired fired for stealing drugs from the police department evidence lock-up and now Copeland's comments. Clearly, my conclusion is the Wolfeboro police department is out of control.

3) If the average corporate executive said anything remotely similar to what Copeland said he/she would be terminated within 24 hours. Look at what is happening to Sterling. He is going to have $1Billion of his private property liquidated for a comment he made in the privacy of his own home. Yet a public official like Copeland cannot be terminated. Give me a break. This is what drives me nuts about government it is like some God given right that government workers can't be fired, can't have their pensions changed, etc., etc. That is what bothers me most about this incident. Government at the national, state and local level is out of control and it needs to be fixed or we are all doomed.

[dave603]

Is this an elected position?
If it is, then it takes care of itself for the people in that town next election.
If not, then it's still a problem for that town only, and no one else from any other area need be involved.

Yes he's got an issue. But it's their town not yours, so stop complaining about it if your not from there.

Personally if it was in my town, I'd kind of want someone " let's say" a little younger than 82 looking over my police force.

Times have somewhat changed as they say, he has not. But again, not my town, not my problem.

i'd also say keep politics out of this website. it's more for fun, not for this.

[tis]

Yes, this IS an elected position. He was the only one who ran as is very typical in Wolfeboro. There are not very many contested races.

I don't think anybody is blaming Mrs. O'Toole, and she has a right to say that she doesn't like what he said, but doesn't he also have a right to say what he wants? Shouldn't it have been between the two of them? That is my point. People say awful things every day. Why do things get blown so out of proportion? Maybe I am just too much live and let live, I don't know.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think anybody is blaming Mrs. O'Toole, and she has a right to say that she doesn't like what he said, but doesn't he also have a right to say what he wants?

Of course he has the right to say what he wants; I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise. But anyone who says stupid stuff (in this case, really inflammatory stupid stuff) who also holds a position of public responsibility has to expect some consequences. I think many people in Wolfeboro would say, "you can say whatever stupid stuff you want Mr. Copeland, but I don't want you to say it and also represent me as a one of our police commissioners."

Shouldn't it have been between the two of them? That is my point. People say awful things every day. Why do things get blown so out of proportion?

If Copeland wasn't serving as an elected official, with responsibility for hiring, firing and disciplining certain town employees, I would completely agree with you. And if that was the case, I bet that most people would just roll their eyes and make a mental note to stay away from the guy in the future.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by sluggo

As Mr. Copeland's point of view was overheard in a public place it still effects our first amendment right to free speech. I don't condone what was said in public but I do feel that the values of what this country is based on are going down the toilet and I fear for the future generations of this great country. And for Ms. Otool that has lived in Wolfeboro for only four months to make a crusade over this open remark has brought a dark cloud to us in the lakes region that will effect this area for a long time with the stigma that it brings . I am sure that when Ms. Otool walks into a local eatery now everyone will know who she is and keep there opinions to themselves or just get up and leave to avoid being on the next national or world news story.....

Ah, I see now. This is all Jane O'Toole's fault. Because, you know, it's OK for a racist to hold elected office in Wolfeboro, as long as nobody outside town knows about it.

Sheesh... talk about shooting the messenger.

Also - what is the first amendment implication here? As far as I know, no government agency or body has taken any action against Robert Copeland for what he has said. No one has told him he can't say whatever he wants. But neither he nor anyone else should be surprised that when he says the things that he has said, there will be a strong negative reaction. Or should he not have to suffer the consequences of his actions?

[Diver Vince]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

.

Certainly it his right to say whatever he wishes but it is my right to find this despicable in any situation but intolerable in a public official.

Not to obfuscate this discussion, but you do not have a right to say whatever you wish, ESPECIALLY in a public place setting. Alternatively, you do have a right to think whatever you wish.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by Crusty

I don't spend a lot of time in Wolfeboro, nor am I familiar with its racial make-up. I do not know the "gentleman" in question. However, in my own life, I have encountered real racists (on both sides) and some "apparent" racists. It is my considered opinion that you cannot determine a person's true racial bias based on a single word in a private conversation regarding the relative merits of the President of the United States. Words carry different meanings and weights, depending on a person's background and the context of use.

My point is that rather than defining 82 years of life by the private use of a single word, let's look at his whole and current record. Is he competent at his job? If not, remove him on that basis. Does racial bias affect how he does his job? If yes, then shame on Wolfeboro for keeping him this long. Is he too old? [Careful: age discrimination] Is his mind going? Is he unpleasant to work with? Does he have any black friends? Does he have any white friends? [Judging from the other posts, I would have to say "no".]

I'm sorry, but the utterance of one word, without backup material, is a story worthy only of the laziest journalist or of someone with their own agenda. If this man is, indeed, a "racist", then let's see the rest of the evidence. It can't be that well hidden. Let's not waste our efforts creating "racists", instead let's identify the real ones --and, of course, Copeland may well turn out to be one-- by examining their deeds and actions. Then we can be well rid of them.

I agree that people should be judged not by a single action. Too many people have said something stupid and been labeled a racist, homophobe, etc.

Here's my point. If you have a "criteria" where you feel the N word is appropriate then you are racist. There is never a time when using that word is justified. Having a "criteria" at 82 years old tells me he's probably come across others who he feels meet his standard.