Learning Lake Winni

[gslpro]

Originally Posted by Striper295

I appreciate this very much; when we are all set up I will let you know. Lunch is on me.

We are also at Lakeport Landing. Great place. Check your private message.

[Striper295]

After the multiple references to Bizer they use Apple products to run the programs.
I was looking at buying an Ipad just for this application, would I need a data plan service for this to function or will the Ipad system communicate with satellites as is to gain GPS positions that communicate with the Bizer program?
I’ve never owned a tablet just a phone so I’m not sure what everyone is doing to operate the Bizer application on an Ipad.

[znh]

Just like with carpentry...'measure twice, cut once'...same goes for navigating Winni...check the map over and over to make sure you know where you are.

I've only been on the lake for a little over two years, we use the Bizer map and the app on my iPhone and I hit some rocks this past weekend near Welcome Island (not very welcoming), near Governors. Without going into great detail it was an honest mistake on my part but I should have payed even more attention when going some place new and obviously close to shore lines. By the time I realized where I actually was it was too late and we hit some rocks. Major prop damage and ended up taking a chunk out of the fiberglass, about $3500 in damage...thank goodness for insurance.

I saw someone above said the 'west side is easier then the east'...I disagree here. The east side of the lake is much more wide open and the west is lots of islands and much more hazards like The Witches and other shallow areas where you might not expect it. Granted each area of the lake has it's own hazards I do find staying West to be generally less tedious when it comes to constantly checking the map to know where you are.

Some other good advice given to us was. Plan a trip and make that same trip 3 or 4 times until you feel very comfortable with that route then plan a new trip and route and repeat. Seeing as we have the rest of our lives to enjoy the lake I will certainly be taking more time when planning our boat trips and learning the in's and out's of Winni.

On another note just about everyone I have talked to where we live has said they have at one point done the same things, either run aground or hit some rocks or something of the sort. Sure it makes me feel a bit better but it's a great reminder that this is a lake you absolutely have to pay attention to or it will bite you when you aren't looking.

Some other tips :

The Bizer map is great but at first you really have to pay attention, I found it hard to keep track of where we were as the lake moves by a lot faster in real life then it seems when following the map. I make sure to check my position with the numbered buoys on the lake and the ones on the map to make sure I am exactly where I think I am (and yet I still hit some rocks )

Get an extra prop for your boat, they are relatively cheap and very easy to replace if you need to. A damaged prop is not good for an engine and if you can avoid a tow by replacing your own prop it's worthwhile.

Want to get to know the lake....follow the Mount route, it is clearly marked on the Bizer map and will give you a full trip around the lake taking a known and marked route.

Be mindful of the weather. Winni has it's one weather system in my opinion and bad weather and wind can come up on you quickly and you really don't want to be caught up in it, it's a big lake and things can get kicked up pretty quickly.

With all that said it's a majestic and beautiful place that offers stunning scenery and joy. Being out in the boat with the kids and friends and exploring new places and going to all the different areas is creating a lifetime of wonderful memories and even though I crashed the boat I can't wait for it to be fixed so I can get right back out there

[Striper295]

Originally Posted by znh

Just like with carpentry...'measure twice, cut once'...same goes for navigating Winni...check the map over and over to make sure you know where you are.

I've only been on the lake for a little over two years, we use the Bizer map and the app on my iPhone and I hit some rocks this past weekend near Welcome Island (not very welcoming), near Governors. Without going into great detail it was an honest mistake on my part but I should have payed even more attention when going some place new and obviously close to shore lines. By the time I realized where I actually was it was too late and we hit some rocks. Major prop damage and ended up taking a chunk out of the fiberglass, about $3500 in damage...thank goodness for insurance.

I saw someone above said the 'west side is easier then the east'...I disagree here. The east side of the lake is much more wide open and the west is lots of islands and much more hazards like The Witches and other shallow areas where you might not expect it. Granted each area of the lake has it's own hazards I do find staying West to be generally less tedious when it comes to constantly checking the map to know where you are.

Some other good advice given to us was. Plan a trip and make that same trip 3 or 4 times until you feel very comfortable with that route then plan a new trip and route and repeat. Seeing as we have the rest of our lives to enjoy the lake I will certainly be taking more time when planning our boat trips and learning the in's and out's of Winni.

On another note just about everyone I have talked to where we live has said they have at one point done the same things, either run aground or hit some rocks or something of the sort. Sure it makes me feel a bit better but it's a great reminder that this is a lake you absolutely have to pay attention to or it will bite you when you aren't looking.

Some other tips :

The Bizer map is great but at first you really have to pay attention, I found it hard to keep track of where we were as the lake moves by a lot faster in real life then it seems when following the map. I make sure to check my position with the numbered buoys on the lake and the ones on the map to make sure I am exactly where I think I am (and yet I still hit some rocks )

Get an extra prop for your boat, they are relatively cheap and very easy to replace if you need to. A damaged prop is not good for an engine and if you can avoid a tow by replacing your own prop it's worthwhile.

Want to get to know the lake....follow the Mount route, it is clearly marked on the Bizer map and will give you a full trip around the lake taking a known and marked route.

Be mindful of the weather. Winni has it's one weather system in my opinion and bad weather and wind can come up on you quickly and you really don't want to be caught up in it, it's a big lake and things can get kicked up pretty quickly.

With all that said it's a majestic and beautiful place that offers stunning scenery and joy. Being out in the boat with the kids and friends and exploring new places and going to all the different areas is creating a lifetime of wonderful memories and even though I crashed the boat I can't wait for it to be fixed so I can get right back out there

Great feedback, thank you!
I have to ask what was the scenario around Welcome Island so I'm ready for it. Are the rocks you hit marked?

[znh]

Originally Posted by Striper295

Great feedback, thank you!
I have to ask what was the scenario around Welcome Island so I'm ready for it. Are the rocks you hit marked?

Yes. My issue was with being too quick looking at the buoys near the island, but I also think this is an issue that could be easily mistaken by others and I have sent a request to the Marine Patrol to ask them about it.

Basically you have to watch out as the 'No Wake' buoys and the "Warning Danger' buoys look very similar. They are both the white cylindrical buoys with orange lettering and markings. The ONLY difference is the shape in the middle of the buoys (see picture below taken from the New Hampshire Boaters Guide - http://www.boat-ed.com/assets/pdf/ha...ook_entire.pdf). Circles show the 'No Wake' zones and the diamond shapes show the 'Danger' zones. But when they are facing sideways and you are motoring along and can't see it all clearly I thought it was a 'No Wake' zone since it was close to the house and the shore line. By the time I got close enough to figure out it was a 'Danger' buoy it was too late and I was already in the shallow. Depth finder went from 8-6-4-2 very quickly. I trimmed all the way up, speed was down to headway speed and I was trying to maneuver around the rocks I could see but couldn't get around all of them. Another issue was there was another boat in the same area and part of me thought 'ok if they are here I should be able to make it through as well'...which others have said is a big NO NO. Do not trust in other boats and blindly follow them

Hopefully my mistake can help others not make the same one. But I still think these type of buoys could be a little more different, especially the ones marking the shallow /danger areas. How about a nice big red sign that says 'DANGER ROCKS'...oh well, I certainly will not make this mistake twice...

[cillovely]

Can I ask a stupid question? Where is the Graveyard? I know the Witches after staying in Meredith and Laconia, but most of the other years we rented in Alton Bay and we never ventured much beyond Rattlesnake Island. Spent most time at the sand bar in W. Alton. This year I'm in Center Harbor, so any info I can get on the area I'll take.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by cillovely

Can I ask a stupid question? Where is the Graveyard? I know the Witches after staying in Meredith and Laconia, but most of the other years we rented in Alton Bay and we never ventured much beyond Rattlesnake Island. Spent most time at the sand bar in W. Alton. This year I'm in Center Harbor, so any info I can get on the area I'll take.

Reference grid E-12 (toward the E-13 boarder) on the map here:
http://www.duncanpressinc.com/map_im...inni2014-7.jpg

[jrc]

This is centered on the Graveyard. Basically its a path through all those underwater boulders. If it makes you nervous just go around the east side of Melvin Island and miss the whole thing.


http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=43....lvl=16&sty=h&q

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by cillovely

Can I ask a stupid question? Where is the Graveyard? I know the Witches after staying in Meredith and Laconia, but most of the other years we rented in Alton Bay and we never ventured much beyond Rattlesnake Island. Spent most time at the sand bar in W. Alton. This year I'm in Center Harbor, so any info I can get on the area I'll take.

If you are familiar with Center Harbor, it's exactly nowhere near there. It's on the way between the Broads and Melvin Village, about half way between 19 mile and 20 mile bays. You can easily avoid it by staying near the west shore of Chase island.

[cillovely]

Thank you all. I think I know where you are talking, it's the area on the map that I go "yikes, I'm not going near that". I just never heard it called the Graveyard. Almost rented near there this year, glad I didn't

[znh]

The Graveyard is pretty well marked and very navigable. Sure you should know where it is, but once you get there it's pretty easy to get through IMO.

If anything my only issue with it is the 'hotdog' captains out there who feel the need to go through it much faster then necessary. It's fairly narrow but can fit two boats, but if one boat is going a lot faster and putting out a good wake it's just not very courteous to others going through at the same time...

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by znh

The Graveyard is pretty well marked and very navigable. Sure you should know where it is, but once you get there it's pretty easy to get through IMO.

If anything my only issue with it is the 'hotdog' captains out there who feel the need to go through it much faster then necessary. It's fairly narrow but can fit two boats, but if one boat is going a lot faster and putting out a good wake it's just not very courteous to others going through at the same time...

Some slow to no wake, some stay cleanly on plane and some slow to max wake speed. I follow the lead of the oncoming boat. If they show no signs of slowing, I don't slow, if they do, I do, but I drop to 6 MPH or less. It's the folks that drop from a decent cruising speed to 10 MPH or so (as a courtesy I assume) that cause the biggest wakes and hassles. I'd much rather pass an oncoming boat that's going 30+ MPH than one going 10 MPH. There's plenty of room to pass safely through there on-plane, if you stay to the right.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Some slow to no wake, some stay cleanly on plane and some slow to max wake speed. I follow the lead of the oncoming boat. If they show no signs of slowing, I don't slow, if they do, I do, but I drop to 6 MPH or less. It's the folks that drop from a decent cruising speed to 10 MPH or so (as a courtesy I assume) that cause the biggest wakes and hassles. I'd much rather pass an oncoming boat that's going 30+ MPH than one going 10 MPH. There's plenty of room to pass safely through there on-plane, if you stay to the right.

You can't LEGALLY pass an oncoming boat in the Graveyard channel above 6mph due to the narrowness of the channel. Make sure the MP isn't watching!

[jrc]

I usually kayak the Witches every weekend, either Saturday or Sunday morning, sometimes both. Anyone wants to come along, PM me and we can meet near Glendale.

[jrc]

Phantom, In a pinch I would power boat through there... in your boat

There are really four underwater rock piles, separated by relatively open water.

I have absolutely no need to bring a power boat in there, so I wouldn't. I do see fishermen in there from time to time.

I would like to kayak around Big and Little, I know you can boat between them but never have. Again it's too easy to go around.

[Phantom]

I agree on it's too easy to go around, which I do 99.9% of the time.

Point was to "newbies" -- NEVER EVER follow someone !

Use your own head & chart ! The driver you watched may have no more idea of where he is going than you or has extremely good "local" knowledge.

Do you want to risk your boat and passengers to find out which ?

.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Orion

You can't LEGALLY pass an oncoming boat in the Graveyard channel above 6mph due to the narrowness of the channel. Make sure the MP isn't watching!

Understood, fortunately, many people are smart enough to know that there's still plenty of room in there to stay on plane and that doing so would be considered safe and legal in 49 US states, and the rest of the planet... I don't mind slowing to 6 MPH if other oncoming captains feel compelled to do so, but if they don't, there's no logical reason for me to.

I shot this video over the weekend in Argentina. This is typical boat handling here. Very entertaining and such a stark contrast to the NH safe passage concept...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyb5...ature=youtu.be

[pjard]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Understood, fortunately, many people are smart enough to know that there's still plenty of room in there to stay on plane and that doing so would be considered safe and legal in 49 US states, and the rest of the planet... I don't mind slowing to 6 MPH if other oncoming captains feel compelled to do so, but if they don't, there's no logical reason for me to.

I shot this video over the weekend in Argentina. This is typical boat handling here. Very entertaining and such a stark contrast to the NH safe passage concept...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyb5...ature=youtu.be

I hate to leave the topic of the this thread but what is that house or whatever at the very end of your video?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by pjard

I hate to leave the topic of the this thread but what is that house or whatever at the very end of your video?

It's a former president's summer place. It's in glass to preserve it. That's what I was video taping, but the tour boat was more interesting to me.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by znh

Yes. My issue was with being too quick looking at the buoys near the island, but I also think this is an issue that could be easily mistaken by others and I have sent a request to the Marine Patrol to ask them about it.

...

ZNH -- I am VERY familiar with the area you are talking about and in reality there IS passage through there -- BUT -- I consider it a "local knowledge" passage way.

I was not over there this past week end, however like a lot of the markers this time of Season, I suspect that the buoy you are referring to is/was not in it's proper location --

Your best words to STRIPER that have been echoed many times in here -- DO NOT think for a minute that because someone else did it -- it's right !


.

[znh]

Originally Posted by Phantom

ZNH -- I am VERY familiar with the area you are talking about and in reality there IS passage through there -- BUT -- I consider it a "local knowledge" passage way.

I was not over there this past week end, however like a lot of the markers this time of Season, I suspect that the buoy you are referring to is/was not in it's proper location --

Your best words to STRIPER that have been echoed many times in here -- DO NOT think for a minute that because someone else did it -- it's right !


.

The buoys, two DANGER buoys, were East and West of the island, they did seem a little close to the island, another reason I thought they were 'No Wake' buoys, maybe if they were placed a little further to the South of the island you would see them sooner...

Someone else did say the same about a passage there, they said it was on the East side of the island, we were on the West side of it...oh well, I'll never know

On a side note, to echo your quote of "A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!"

We had friends up and even though I crashed the boat we were still all expressing the same sentiment

[Happy Gourmand]

The best advice I know of, when it comes to some of those obviously really tight passages, do a 180 and get out of there. There is plenty of deep water to explore in all areas of the lake. They say that curiosity kills a cat, it also "eats" a lot of props!!

[Phantom]

and for the record ......

I did NOT "tag" the Long Island bridge ....

I have been using this signature for years


.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by znh

Someone else did say the same about a passage there, they said it was on the East side of the island, we were on the West side of it...oh well, I'll never know

Just to be clear ... the passage is on the Weirs (Southwest) side of "Welcome" .... East to me is Sally's Gut side


If you were on the Northeast side ... you were doomed & lucky you only came away with a dented prop!!

.

[znh]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Just to be clear ... the passage is on the Weirs (Southwest) side of "Welcome" .... East to me is Sally's Gut side


If you were on the Northeast side ... you were doomed & lucky you only came away with a dented prop!!

.

We were on the Weirs side...see maps below.

Larger map is to give others the perspective of where this was...yellow circle is 'Welcome Island' with the big blue house on it and the blue X is our boat. The point at the bottom of the map is the tip of Governors.

On the smaller map :

The orange circles are where the buoys were.

The maroon boat was the pontoon boat that we were kind of watching and following, they made it through unscathed.

The red boat is us and just about where I hit the rock. I saw a couple others go by right before it and knew they were super shallow and tried to steer around what else I could see but didn't make it.

So are you saying we were on the side with the passage ?

[Phantom]

HMMMMmmm

From your great illustration, the solid red (with X) is on the correct side -- the other "went with God aboard"


.

[znh]

Originally Posted by Phantom

HMMMMmmm

From your great illustration, the solid red (with X) is on the correct side -- the other "went with God aboard"


.

Oh well...I got caught on one right there and they made it through. Granted the pontoon boat has a shallower draft but it's still pretty sketchy all over there. After we hit the rock the pontoon boat did come over and make sure we were all set, then the driver said 'yeah you have to watch it out it gets shallow around here'...thanks.

Maybe someday you can show me the 'local' route

[Rich]

This must have hurt! Looking at your Satelite images, it looks like you missed some deeper water if you were just slightly further west.

I don't have my Bizer map with me, but looking at the Duncan Press map, I may have gone on the west side of Pitchwood Island, closer to Spindle point.

Thanks for pointing this area out to me.

[znh]

Originally Posted by Rich

This must have hurt! Looking at your Satelite images, it looks like you missed some deeper water if you were just slightly further west.

I don't have my Bizer map with me, but looking at the Duncan Press map, I may have gone on the west side of Pitchwood Island, closer to Spindle point.

Thanks for pointing this area out to me.

I don't know...rocks were all over, I could see how you might be able to get through if you knew very closely where to go but it's really shallow.

That was the other issue, when quickly looking at the map and the perspective we had from our approach into here I thought I was West of Pitchwood...then as I got closer into the channel I figured out I was wrong...


It will be hurting the wallet shortly...the Break Out Another Thousand is spot on here

[jrc]

Unless you live in there, why would you need to go in there? I've kayaked through there, it's a rock garden. Sure it may be possible to make it through but why?

BTW I've found a shortcut through the Witches with my kayak, do you want to try that too?

No offense intended just having a little fun.

[znh]

Mostly I thought I was somewhere else, was not purposely trying to go through there as I agree there is no reason to, once I realized where I actually was it was too late...


I would love a guided tour through the Witches...





















in my kayak

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by jrc

BTW I've found a shortcut through the Witches with my kayak, do you want to try that too?

.

I'm Game for new things ...... You first (powerboats only) !


By the Way -- ever powerboat between Big & Little Islands in Paugus Bay ? That is one I learnt years ago and always makes others STOP and look (waiting for ya hit).



.

[Gray Ghost]

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by Striper295

After the multiple references to Bizer they use Apple products to run the programs.
I was looking at buying an Ipad just for this application, would I need a data plan service for this to function or will the Ipad system communicate with satellites as is to gain GPS positions that communicate with the Bizer program?
I’ve never owned a tablet just a phone so I’m not sure what everyone is doing to operate the Bizer application on an Ipad.

You will need an Ipad with 3G capability for the GPS. You don't need an active data plan however. The regular ipads do not have GPS

[polarisman14]

A GPS like a Garmin is very useful especially if you plan on entertaining guests frequently. At that point it's not just your own life in your hands. Garmin does a great job of canvassing the lake and making continuous improvements to their software. It isn't all-encompassing--having the Bizer map is a great idea as well just to help you keep your bearings and navigate tricky areas.

We were going through what we learned later was the graveyard--planing out at mid-20s cutting a corner of it off accidentally. I was on the front of the boat and started yelling at my friend because I could see boulders right below the surface! We really, really, really lucked out and didn't hit anything whatsoever...But we paid a LOT more attention to all the buoys after that day.

That said, there are a lot of large, uninterrupted areas to cut your teeth on before you start to navigate the trickier areas. I'm a big fan of Sally's Gut and Stonedam Island.

[Striper295]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

You will need an Ipad with 3G capability for the GPS. You don't need an active data plan however. The regular ipads do not have GPS

Thank you very much for this clarification!

[Marine Patrol]

The following is the technique Marine Patrol has used for years. We do use electronics, but they aren't 100% reliable and officers still need to navigate when they are not available. Investing time studying the chart before heading out is very valuable.

The technique that we have found that seems to work best includes several different tasks.

1. Get a chart! Get a compass that you can read at a glance.
2. Memorize the number and location of every navigation light on the lake...forces you to have an image of the lake in your mind and impresses any Winni boater at trivia time! (Where is light #34? Name all the lights that have a double flash!)
3.Always have the chart in front of you while underway. Orient the chart so that the area of the lake your travelling to is at the top of the page. This will require you to constantly "manage" the position of your chart but allows you to anticipate the next buoy, light, island, cove, etc. For this reason I prefer a water proof chart that is not laminated, it allows you to bend/fold it to the size and angle that works best for you. Once you master the lake, the laminated ones are great. You'll want to retire the old one because it will be worn out!
4. While navigating, look for... and find the next reference point that you should encounter according to the chart. If you can't find it, STOP! This should prevent you from getting into trouble. Once you confirm your location, continue. If you still can't locate your precise location...now use your GPS, or return to your last known point.
5. GPS are tremendous tools, but I find the use of GPS and RADAR for beginners doesn't give the person the "back of your hand" knowledge that those who truly know lake navigation desire. Use it to keep yourself out of trouble, bad weather, and darkness.
6. Finally, once your are comfortable with getting around the lake without your chart because you know each buoy/light/hazard, trim up that hardware and explore. What is behind that buoy? How do you pass through that channel? Purchase a boat hook, measure to the bottom of your prop, and mark the handle with the measurement. Give yourself an extra 6 inches for wave action, and measure if you find yourself in shallow water. Shut down and paddle/push out if in trouble.

Nothing substitutes for time at the helm. Don't follow other boaters and don't get caught on the lake after dark. Any Winni navigator will tell you it is a much different lake after dark!

Safe Boating!!

[Striper295]

Originally Posted by Marine Patrol

The following is the technique Marine Patrol has used for years. We do use electronics, but they aren't 100% reliable and officers still need to navigate when they are not available. Investing time studying the chart before heading out is very valuable.

The technique that we have found that seems to work best includes several different tasks.

1. Get a chart! Get a compass that you can read at a glance.
2. Memorize the number and location of every navigation light on the lake...forces you to have an image of the lake in your mind and impresses any Winni boater at trivia time! (Where is light #34? Name all the lights that have a double flash!)
3.Always have the chart in front of you while underway. Orient the chart so that the area of the lake your travelling to is at the top of the page. This will require you to constantly "manage" the position of your chart but allows you to anticipate the next buoy, light, island, cove, etc. For this reason I prefer a water proof chart that is not laminated, it allows you to bend/fold it to the size and angle that works best for you. Once you master the lake, the laminated ones are great. You'll want to retire the old one because it will be worn out!
4. While navigating, look for... and find the next reference point that you should encounter according to the chart. If you can't find it, STOP! This should prevent you from getting into trouble. Once you confirm your location, continue. If you still can't locate your precise location...now use your GPS, or return to your last known point.
5. GPS are tremendous tools, but I find the use of GPS and RADAR for beginners doesn't give the person the "back of your hand" knowledge that those who truly know lake navigation desire. Use it to keep yourself out of trouble, bad weather, and darkness.
6. Finally, once your are comfortable with getting around the lake without your chart because you know each buoy/light/hazard, trim up that hardware and explore. What is behind that buoy? How do you pass through that channel? Purchase a boat hook, measure to the bottom of your prop, and mark the handle with the measurement. Give yourself an extra 6 inches for wave action, and measure if you find yourself in shallow water. Shut down and paddle/push out if in trouble.

Nothing substitutes for time at the helm. Don't follow other boaters and don't get caught on the lake after dark. Any Winni navigator will tell you it is a much different lake after dark!

Safe Boating!!

Thank you for the time and detail of your reply!!

[jeffk]

I remember the color and compass direction combinations by putting them all in alphabetical order

Black
East
North

Red
South
West

However, I find the dashed navigation lines on the maps more useful.

Also, I mostly avoid tight/confusing navigation areas because I don't want to risk having to replace 2 stainless steel props for over $600 (or worse). If I want to explore I putt around on my jet ski.

Also before you go between a red and black marker, make sure they are SOLID color. A neighbor lost his lower unit over that mistake. Ouch. Again, dashed nav lines are helpful at avoiding this problem.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Also before you go between a red and black marker, make sure they are SOLID color. A neighbor lost his lower unit over that mistake. Ouch. Again, dashed nav lines are helpful at avoiding this problem.

Be careful using this rule everywhere... It would get you into trouble in places around 9 Acre and the Forty Islands.

[thekings]

Originally Posted by Striper295

After the multiple references to Bizer they use Apple products to run the programs.
I was looking at buying an Ipad just for this application, would I need a data plan service for this to function or will the Ipad system communicate with satellites as is to gain GPS positions that communicate with the Bizer program?
I’ve never owned a tablet just a phone so I’m not sure what everyone is doing to operate the Bizer application on an Ipad.

If you go with the iPad 2 it has built in gps. No service plan needed. The map app is top notice. Plus when docked you can wifi to this website.