Geese being harassed by jet ski

[jeffk]

I just witnessed a jet ski seriously harassing a flock of geese including some babies. He stopped when he realized he was being watched.

This is illegal, correct?

If it happens again, who do I report this to?

Yes, I find geese annoying as well but this is just wrong.

[BroadHopper]

Was this in Paugus Bay near the channel? There was a number of jet skiers harassing two families of geese. I agree, it is senseless even when I can't stand those geese.

[dave603]

IF you can get the number and report it to fish and Game.

[wifi]

My son was out on the dock taking a video of this, that might have scared him off too. I think he lives further down the cove, shame on him. Son reports he ran over one of the babies.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Was this in Paugus Bay near the channel? There was a number of jet skiers harassing two families of geese. I agree, it is senseless even when I can't stand those geese.

Nope, up in Moultonborough. Seems foolish behavior is wide spread.

[Lakegeezer]

The geese used to migrate through, but in the past few years seem to be settling in and "making more". Resident geese are a nuisance, producing several pounds of poop per day, but are still protected from harm. That doesn't mean methods of deterrence are illegal. Chasing them away is one approach. Harassing them out of your area with a jetski doesn't seem out of line, but stop short of causing harm. The Indiana state DNR site suggests the following:

• adopt a no-feeding policy;
• immediately begin implementing habitat modification strategies that discourage future use by geese;
• begin implementing daily goose harassment techniques (at least once in the mid-morning and once immediately prior to sunset or any time of day when geese are seen at the site, but not on a regular routine as geese will become accustomed to the schedule) in early February or as soon as geese are observed using the site to discourage geese from acclimating to the site; and
• destroy and remove all evidence of nest building attempts on a daily basis until egg laying begins.

The picture below was taken Monday morning. There are approximately 45 geese here. That is a minimum of 90 pounds of concentrated water nutrients that will be put into the watershed today.

[WakeboardMom]

I wonder if this was the same jet ski that came through a NWZ at full speed not far from Long Island?

[tis]

OH, Lakegeezer, that is certainly discouraging to see that picture! I will die if we get that many in our neck of the woods. They will pollute the water!!

[AC2717]

does not matter if they are up in Wolfeboro or down in Lakeport, it will be in the water system
GET RID OF THEM ALL!!!

My feeling until someone can prove to me their usefulness? because I have not been able to find what good they do for the Eco-system?

[nhcatrider]

They are tasty......

[Taz]

For years golf courses have used dogs to chase geese off. Do you think that is harrassment? I have no problem with this.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Taz

For years golf courses have used dogs to chase geese off. Do you think that is harrassment? I have no problem with this.

Do the dogs kill the geese or simply bark at them? Big difference in my book.

Also a big difference in driving a jet ski near an adult flock to make them uncomfortable and driving a jet ski through a flock that has babies in it.

And, it doesn't matter if you dislike geese. The law says they are protected. I dislike the mess and annoyance as well. I would use every possible legal means to keep them away. What's the difference between running them down and shooting them? Both would be illegal.

[SteveA]

.. with my camera..

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Do the dogs kill the geese or simply bark at them? Big difference in my book.

Also a big difference in driving a jet ski near an adult flock to make them uncomfortable and driving a jet ski through a flock that has babies in it.

And, it doesn't matter if you dislike geese. The law says they are protected. I dislike the mess and annoyance as well. I would use every possible legal means to keep them away. What's the difference between running them down and shooting them? Both would be illegal.

The law does say they are protected. For what reason I'm not sure since they breed like rabbits and pollute like there is no tomorrow. I can't stand these things. Wait a few more years and as the lake continues to deteriorate due to their droppings I'm sure you'll have a change of heart. Why we can't control exploding animal populations that breed disease such as deer and geese is beyond me. How about a goose hunt with the geese from the hunt donated to homeless folks? The next thing you know you want be able to kill field mice in your basement because they are endangered.

[secondcurve]

Please note the paragraph below about scaring birds away. This from NY state but maybe it is the same in NH?

The circumstances when federal or state permits are needed to address a problem with Canada geese can be complex; however, here are some general guidelines:

No federal or state permits are needed to scare, herd, or chase away geese by any means, including dogs or noisemakers, as long as no birds are physically harmed.
If you only want to destroy goose nests or treat the eggs with corn oil (or puncturing) to prevent hatching, simply visit the USFWS's Resident Canada Goose Nest and Egg Registration Site to register on-line (see the Offsite Link in the right-hand column). You do not need any special authorization or permit from DEC.
If you are the manager of an airport or military airfield, determine your eligibility to conduct lethal control of geese between April 1 and September 15 by reviewing the requirements of the control order for resident Canada geese at airports and military airfields (see the Offsite Link in the right-hand column). If you qualify you do not need any special authorization or permit from DEC; to take geese at other times of the year a Federal permit is needed.
If you are a farmer or manager of a beach or drinking water supply, and you want permission for the lethal removal of geese between April 1 (manager of a beach or drinking water supply) / May 1 (farmer) and August 31, you do not need a federal permit but need written authorization from your local DEC Wildlife office.
In most other situations, including areas where geese are a general nuisance (parks, golf courses, residential or commercial properties, etc.), or to kill geese at other times of the year, you need a specific Federal permit. To apply for a federal permit, contact the New York State office of USDA Wildlife Services at (518) 477-4837.
DEC generally does not allow relocation of geese with or without a permit.
For more information, view, print, or download the document below or contact your local DEC Wildlife office.

[SAB1]

I agree. The number of geese is increasing. They are bad news for the lake. Need more hunters!

[tc_mike]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

The law does say they are protected. For what reason I'm not sure since they breed like rabbits and pollute like there is no tomorrow. I can't stand these things. Wait a few more years and as the lake continues to deteriorate due to their droppings I'm sure you'll have a change of heart. Why we can't control exploding animal populations that breed disease such as deer and geese is beyond me. How about a goose hunt with the geese from the hunt donated to homeless folks? The next thing you know you want be able to kill field mice in your basement because they are endangered.

Here's an article from a few years back that discusses donating the meat from a goose cull to homeless folks (not in NH though).
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ghtered-geese/

[AC2717]

no wonder they are all here in the Northeast. it is not safe for them anywhere else. I saw we would should do the same thing. In this case we did not inhabit their habit, it was the other way around

[cillovely]

Although I hate them, I wouldn't hurt or kill any of them. So chasing with a jet ski or in my case my dog who's new command "go get 'em" has to be allowed as long as it's just chasing. My dog just runs to the back of my yard barking at them and chasing them back into the brook from which they came. Stupid bastards will sit there across the brook and as soon as I walk away, they come on back. And sometimes even when I'm still sitting there. I sit with the dog on a bench and just watch until I know they are gone. I didn't allow him to chase until the babies were a little bigger but now it's on.

The poop is gross and is not good for the environment. I want to kill people who feed them.

PS I had a friend who's son chased a bunch out of a park one day and they ran into the street and got hit and killed by a car. Son had to do community service for his crime.

[RailroadJoe]

And what crime did the kid commit? Chasing any geese to make them move is logical in my mind. Sometimes I wonder how these laws are interpreted.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by cillovely

Although I hate them, I wouldn't hurt or kill any of them. So chasing with a jet ski or in my case my dog who's new command "go get 'em" has to be allowed as long as it's just chasing. My dog just runs to the back of my yard barking at them and chasing them back into the brook from which they came. Stupid bastards will sit there across the brook and as soon as I walk away, they come on back. And sometimes even when I'm still sitting there. I sit with the dog on a bench and just watch until I know they are gone. I didn't allow him to chase until the babies were a little bigger but now it's on.

The poop is gross and is not good for the environment. I want to kill people who feed them.

PS I had a friend who's son chased a bunch out of a park one day and they ran into the street and got hit and killed by a car. Son had to do community service for his crime.

Why won't you kill them? Do you eat chicken, fish and steak? The animals that provide these food products are killed by humans but yet so many good intentioned people won't eat geese or deer that are a nuisance, or worse yet a health threat. What am I missing? Why is this such a difficult concept for so many?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by cillovely

Although I hate them, I wouldn't hurt or kill any of them. So chasing with a jet ski or in my case my dog who's new command "go get 'em" has to be allowed as long as it's just chasing. My dog just runs to the back of my yard barking at them and chasing them back into the brook from which they came. Stupid bastards will sit there across the brook and as soon as I walk away, they come on back. And sometimes even when I'm still sitting there. I sit with the dog on a bench and just watch until I know they are gone. I didn't allow him to chase until the babies were a little bigger but now it's on.

The poop is gross and is not good for the environment. I want to kill people who feed them.

PS I had a friend who's son chased a bunch out of a park one day and they ran into the street and got hit and killed by a car. Son had to do community service for his crime.

Even better you want to kill people who feed the geese (your words above, not mine) but yet you won't kill geese that are creating health problems!

[jmen24]

Secondcurve, you're going to get a sore throat barking up that kind of tree!

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by tc_mike

Here's an article from a few years back that discusses donating the meat from a goose cull to homeless folks (not in NH though).
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ghtered-geese/

If they are homeless how can they cook a goose?

[tis]

I just came home to two adults and 3 babies in my yard.!!!!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

If they are homeless how can they cook a goose?

The old fashioned way, fry it up on a hot plate.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Secondcurve, you're going to get a sore throat barking up that kind of tree!

I know sometimes there is no reasoning with folks.

[jeffk]

Well, some dogs are really annoying, barking at and chasing people, pooping in your yard, etc. Some folks think dog makes a good meal. So let's jump in our cars and run down some dogs and take them home for lunch, OK? You know the bear that pulled down your bird feeder? Bear steaks? Now running them down might take a little more heft than a car.

You could probably try to make the rationalization that the only good animal is a dead animal. They all get annoying from time to time. Those loons calling all night long, don't they ever shut up?

We live in a natural area folks and, to some extent, we have to put up with the down sides of that. The law suggests that as well.

And NO, I don't think running an animal down, especially young that cannot possibly flee, is the right way to deal with the problem.

[SIKSUKR]

I dont know Jeff but to expand on your logic in that last post I would say....those mice that have over run your house should be left alone. Those darn red squirrels that chew there way into my attic should be left alone. That smelly skunk I had living under my crawlspace should continue to stink up the house. I understand your point but there are animals that are a nuisance and need to be dealt with. Geese pooping all over my property is one of them.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I just witnessed a jet ski seriously harassing a flock of geese including some babies. He stopped when he realized he was being watched.

This is illegal, correct?

If it happens again, who do I report this to?

Yes, I find geese annoying as well but this is just wrong.

I am totally against this.....it is so difficult to get all those feathers out of the intake after....like sucking up leaves in the fall.

[SAB1]

"Well, some dogs are really annoying, barking at and chasing people, pooping in your yard, etc."

Slightly different issue there. That is reflection of the owner, not the pet. Dogs are smart and easily trainable. Geese.......not so much.

Geese also nest in the same spot each year so the problem perpetuates itself. Ugg.

[tis]

True, and dogs don't multiply in a family each year from 2-6-10-20-30 etc. in just a few years. This is what is happening on the lake.

[jmen24]

If a neighbors dog pooping on your property is a problem and they won't deal with it. Pour Chicken Gravy on the problem and the dogs will clean up after themselves!

You can't do that with geese, unless...... your neighbor has a dog that is always in your yard. Highly trainable you say.....

[Misty Blue]

We spend big $$$ to fight the influx of milfoil in the Lake. Lots of money and lots of manpower. Why?

Because it is plant that is invasive and is not native to the Lake. If it is allowed to go unchecked it will turn our beautiful Lake into a swamp. Watch the property values drop!

I consider geese to be like milfoil. They have been around for a long time but have not taken up residence on the Lake until recent years. Now they are breeding here. If they are allowed to populate the Lake unchecked they will ruin the water quality and watch the property values drop.

I do not have a solution on how to get them off of the Lake. We don't want to do anything stupid but something has to be done.

Any ideas?

Misty Blue

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

We spend big $$$ to fight the influx of milfoil in the Lake. Lots of money and lots of manpower. Why?

Because it is plant that is invasive and is not native to the Lake. If it is allowed to go unchecked it will turn our beautiful Lake into a swamp. Watch the property values drop!

I consider geese to be like milfoil. They have been around for a long time but have not taken up residence on the Lake until recent years. Now they are breeding here. If they are allowed to populate the Lake unchecked they will ruin the water quality and watch the property values drop.

I do not have a solution on how to get them off of the Lake. We don't want to do anything stupid but something has to be done.

Any ideas?

Misty Blue

We chased them off our property a few years ago with our son's paintball gun. We didn't aim to hurt them, but they got the idea, took off and didn't come back.
They are amazingly territorial and protective of their babies.
When we started firing paintballs near them they rounded up the little ones and ran.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

We spend big $$$ to fight the influx of milfoil in the Lake. Lots of money and lots of manpower. Why?

Because it is plant that is invasive and is not native to the Lake. If it is allowed to go unchecked it will turn our beautiful Lake into a swamp. Watch the property values drop!

I consider geese to be like milfoil. They have been around for a long time but have not taken up residence on the Lake until recent years. Now they are breeding here. If they are allowed to populate the Lake unchecked they will ruin the water quality and watch the property values drop.

I do not have a solution on how to get them off of the Lake. We don't want to do anything stupid but something has to be done.

Any ideas?

Misty Blue

Misty: You provides good summary of the problem. The only way to deal with the situation is through an extended hunting season with higher bag limits. Chasing them from one property to the next does nothing to solve the underlying issue. We need to allow more geese to be taken in a sporting manner and used for food. This will eliminate the unwarranted geese/human interactions that are increasing by the day. Before I hear some well intentioned but misinformed person say the geese were here before us so let them stay I'll point out that it is human development that has caused the explosion in the goose population. Manicured lawns and golf courses are conducive habitat and that is the reason for the unchecked population growth. The people who eat fish, crabs, hamburger, steak, veal etc. are the same folks who refuse to deal with nuisance animals because they look so cute.

[Rusty]

How about rounding up all the Geese eggs that can be found and eating them instead of the Geese. Maybe in time it might reduce the number of them.

I've heard that scrambled Geese eggs taste pretty good.

Maybe even round up the baby Geese and eat them also.

We eat veal...isn't that a baby calve.

[wifi]

I witnessed the whole thing too, as referenced above. I was probably more annoyed at the lack of humanity than anything. So maybe, they can be gathered up, and used to feed the poor and save us some tax $$ ?

Nah, the administration of the rules to do this would cost us more....

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

I think this may be the answer. The next problem is getting rid of the rodents after they take care of the geese.
I have had a lot of success keeping the geese away this spring with small fireworks and my irrigation system.
They keep trying but they are dealing with a retired guy that has a lot of time to kill. Literally.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by Rusty

How about rounding up all the Geese eggs that can be found and eating them instead of the Geese. Maybe in time it might reduce the number of them.

I've heard that scrambled Geese eggs taste pretty good.

Maybe even round up the baby Geese and eat them also.

We eat veal...isn't that a baby calve.

Here's a great recipe for you!!

.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

We spend big $$$ to fight the influx of milfoil in the Lake. Lots of money and lots of manpower. Why?

Because it is plant that is invasive and is not native to the Lake. If it is allowed to go unchecked it will turn our beautiful Lake into a swamp. Watch the property values drop!

I consider geese to be like milfoil. They have been around for a long time but have not taken up residence on the Lake until recent years. Now they are breeding here. If they are allowed to populate the Lake unchecked they will ruin the water quality and watch the property values drop.

I do not have a solution on how to get them off of the Lake. We don't want to do anything stupid but something has to be done.

Any ideas?

Misty Blue

If we can prove that milfoil is thriving on Canadian Geese pooh, we have a valid reason to get rid of the geese!

[SAB1]

This thread is kinda funny in a way because no one seems to mind people chasing or harassing the geese but the guy who supposedly chased the moose with his snowmobile got hammered. Little ironic. Ha ha.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by SAB1

This thread is kinda funny in a way because no one seems to mind people chasing or harassing the geese but the guy who supposedly chased the moose with his snowmobile got hammered. Little ironic. Ha ha.

The guy that was chasing and running the geese over with the jet ski is an ass, same as the two dopes from Belmont with the Moose! I did not notice a poster in this thread disagreeing with that general feeling.

While I will agree that most of the solutions listed in this thread are technically considered harassing wildlife, the general feeling is that Canada Geese are only one notch above roaches or ants, so it is not looked at in the same way. Doesn't make it right, but again I do not have a waterfront lawn, so I do not have a daily problem with geese. I would feel the same way as any of the waterfront owners that deal with these birds.

I am just waiting for someone to post a video of some of the actions above, so we can really get this thread rolling!

[jeffatsquam]

I don't know of any geese problems on Squam, But I do know of only a few lawns

[Lakegeezer]

Many are nesting in the tall grasses of Garland Pond, where there are very few homes. Then, they make daily rounds to their favorite lawns.

[VitaBene]

I had two start wandering around in my field. We are not really on the water (we are on Berry Pond, but you have to walk through 300 yards of forest to get from pond to lawn). Maybe they were just taking a breather, but I sent Steeler out after them anyway... off they went hooting and hollering never to be seen again!

[dpg]

Jeez folks JeffK just doesn't believe in chasing around little baby animals with a Jetski give him a break. I'm sure people out on the water have better things to be doing on their $10,000 machines. How about we all move deep, deep into the wilderness then kill the bears that threaten us.....STUPID.....

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by dpg

Jeez folks JeffK just doesn't believe in chasing around little baby animals with a Jetski give him a break. I'm sure people out on the water have better things to be doing on their $10,000 machines. How about we all move deep, deep into the wilderness then kill the bears that threaten us.....STUPID.....

Normally agree with this one, but they were not native to the area and were introduced by humans when a English governor or something like that wanted a few as pets on his estate

[dpg]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Normally agree with this one, but they were not native to the area and were introduced by humans when a English governor or something like that wanted a fee as pets on his estate

Well ok guess I agree but still what can you do it is what it is...Is it the animals fault they were introduced to (any) new area? I know it !@#$% but it's wildlife, live with it. Hey I used to hunt too not saying I've never killed a thing but that doesn't mean I'd go and bait Deer all summer so I can go and wait for the big one opening morning.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by dpg

Well ok guess I agree but still what can you do it is what it is...Is it the animals fault they were introduced to (any) new area? I know it !@#$% but it's wildlife, live with it. Hey I used to hunt too not saying I've never killed a thing but that doesn't mean I'd go and bait Deer all summer so I can go and wait for the big one opening morning.

A few points. No one likes to see animals harassed. I think we are all in total agreement on that point. The guy on the jet ski is a dope. However, if your house is infested with mice or rats do you say "oh, well they are native to the area, I am going to let them be"? Of course not! But when it comes to deer and geese that are responsible for many diseases and destruction when herds and flocks go unchecked, folks are against actions being taken to reduce populations to healthy levels. Yet, these same people eat beef, fish, etc. and think nothing of it. It seems if the animals they consume are killed in distance places and bought through supermarkets it is all fine.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

A few points. No one likes to see animals harassed. I think we are all in total agreement on that point. The guy on the jet ski is a dope. However, if your house is infested with mice or rats do you say "oh, well they are native to the area, I am going to let them be"? Of course not! But when it comes to deer and geese that are responsible for many diseases and destruction when herds and flocks go unchecked, folks are against actions being taken to reduce populations to healthy levels. Yet, these same people eat beef, fish, etc. and think nothing of it. It seems if the animals they consume are killed in distance places and bought through supermarkets it is all fine.

Agree 100 percent..

[Taz]

Did your first post say the geese were killed? I believe you said they were seriously harassed. And the dogs on a golf course are not just barking they are chasing them until they fly away. How is a golf course owner using dogs for this purpose any different?

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Taz

Did your first post say the geese were killed? I believe you said they were seriously harassed. And the dogs on a golf course are not just barking they are chasing them until they fly away. How is a golf course owner using dogs for this purpose any different?

The guy was plowing through the flock including babies. My neighbor also saw it and commented that they were hit. Killed? I don't know. They certainly could have been. If I walked up to a baby goose, picked it up and drop kicked it away and it managed to survive, would that make what I did OK? I don't think so.

It is clear (legally) that you CAN make it uncomfortable for the geese to be in an area with visual and audio harassment. I'm fine with that. The geese ARE a nuisance and they are not being killed by these techniques. The dogs seem to be doing the same thing although siccing the dogs on a flock with babies that cannot flee would seem cruel. Probably illegal.

It's a matter of degree and this guy crossed the line, significantly.

[corollaman]

Not that I condone this behavior, but maybe the jetskier was fed up with them pooping on his lawn.

[ronc4424]

Town faces backlash after geese are rounded up on Oakland beach, killed
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By Katherine Underwood, CBS 13
Posted June 25, 2014, at 5:44 p.m.
OAKLAND, Maine — A gaggle of geese that caused a ruckus and a mess on the Oakland town beach are now dead.

The birds were euthanized, and animal lovers are asking why.

Residents say for years they could barely walk along the town beach without running into geese or stepping on their droppings.

People enjoying the beach Tuesday said they’re thrilled to see it cleaned up, but they were disappointed with the way experts solved the problem.

“I don’t really think they should have euthanized them,” Augusta resident Phyllis Strout said.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture captured the 18 Canada geese Friday, then made the decision to euthanize them.

Oakland Town Manager Peter Nielsen refused to answer questions on camera Tuesday because he said he has received too much backlash since last week.

He did, however, defend town officials by saying they tried everything to mitigate the problem before calling in the USDA.

“We worked with Oakland to take a lot of approaches to try and resolve the issue,” Maine Wildlife Biologist Kendall Marden explained.

He says common efforts, that included reminding people not to feed the geese, putting up barriers on the property and harassing the animals, just didn’t work.

But people still want to know why the USDA decided to kill the animals instead of relocating them.

“Moving them from one place to another just causes other people problems, and likely they would just return because they do have wings and geese can fly,” Marden explained.

Marden knows that euthanizing isn’t the most popular option, but he says it’s necessary in some cases to control the increasing population of geese in Maine.

“I don’t agree with killing them,” Winslow resident June Hamlin said. “But I’m glad they’re doing something at the beach.”

Nielsen says he was aware euthanizing the birds was a possibility, but he says he made it clear to the USDA the town wanted them relocated.

He says he was surprised and saddened Monday to learn the birds had been killed.

CBS13 News has not been able to reach the USDA to find out why officials there decided euthanize the geese.

SEE COMMENTS →

[Rich]

Wow... cook them and serve a meal. If people prefer, donate the food to a food bank or have a BBQ for the homeless!

Call PETA!!! (People Eating Tasty Animals)

[jeffk]

"Maine town solves their goose problem "

So the government, in their superior wisdom. can kill geese but "we", the lowly common people, cannot?

The issue is that geese are an annoyance WHEREVER they are because of their poop and generally irritating behavior. So by the government's logic you would be justified in killing them almost everywhere they show up. Soon they would become endangered. Then what? Is the fact that they were on a "public" beach somehow more important than when they are on a "private" beach? Why?

What's the difference between annoying geese and other types of annoying animals? Can we just kill them all including annoying dogs and cats? Is there a difference in running geese over or bashing them with a baseball bat or "euthanizing" them (what does that mean anyway? Hitting them with a bat where no one is watching?)? Does it make a difference that we live in a natural area where wild animals are expected to live vs. a city where they are less common and possibly more of a problem?

I don't claim to have all the right answers. I have no problem hunting or eating animals. However, I think there is a difference in humanely killing them for consumption vs. running them over because they are annoying. I also recognize that some animals species are threatened and deserve special protections, to a point. I am not bothered when occasionally I have run over a squirrel or other critter in the road. I try to avoid them but sometimes you just can't. However, my immediate reaction to the original action that caused me to start this thread was that the guy's actions were crude, excessive, and probably illegal.

[VitaBene]

When "the end of the world as we know it" comes to pass, we will at least have plenty of good eating...

[tis]

I can't remember if it was the state or town but geese were removed from Back Bay in Wolfeboro and gassed.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by jeffk

"Maine town solves their goose problem "

So the government, in their superior wisdom. can kill geese but "we", the lowly common people, cannot?

The issue is that geese are an annoyance WHEREVER they are because of their poop and generally irritating behavior. So by the government's logic you would be justified in killing them almost everywhere they show up. Soon they would become endangered. Then what? Is the fact that they were on a "public" beach somehow more important than when they are on a "private" beach? Why?

What's the difference between annoying geese and other types of annoying animals? Can we just kill them all including annoying dogs and cats? Is there a difference in running geese over or bashing them with a baseball bat or "euthanizing" them (what does that mean anyway? Hitting them with a bat where no one is watching?)? Does it make a difference that we live in a natural area where wild animals are expected to live vs. a city where they are less common and possibly more of a problem?

I don't claim to have all the right answers. I have no problem hunting or eating animals. However, I think there is a difference in humanely killing them for consumption vs. running them over because they are annoying. I also recognize that some animals species are threatened and deserve special protections, to a point. I am not bothered when occasionally I have run over a squirrel or other critter in the road. I try to avoid them but sometimes you just can't. However, my immediate reaction to the original action that caused me to start this thread was that the guy's actions were crude, excessive, and probably illegal.

Jeff: There needs to be some level of control. Otherwise the Geese will take over everything. I applaud the town in Maine for taking care of the problem in a humane fashion. By the way Jeff, the government represents the people and the majority of the people want the Geese population controlled.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

... By the way ..., the government represents the people ....

That is the way its supposed to be.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Jeff: There needs to be some level of control. Otherwise the Geese will take over everything. I applaud the town in Maine for taking care of the problem in a humane fashion. By the way Jeff, the government represents the people and the majority of the people want the Geese population controlled.

I beg to differ. Established LAW represents the people, not current whim of people or government. The government is bound by the same laws that we are. If we are not allowed, by law, to arbitrarily kill the geese then the government is not either. If you don't like it, let "the majority" come forward and change the law. Then we can kill the geese and the government can as well. Maybe there is a loophole for the USDA to do what they did?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I beg to differ. Established LAW represents the people, not current whim of people or government. The government is bound by the same laws that we are. If we are not allowed, by law, to arbitrarily kill the geese then the government is not either. If you don't like it, let "the majority" come forward and change the law. Then we can kill the geese and the government can as well. Maybe there is a loophole for the USDA to do what they did?

Beg all you want. IT IS THE LAW. You may not like it but that is another story. Please see below:

50 CFR 21.26 - Special Canada goose permit.

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§ 21.26 Special Canada goose permit.
(a) What is the special Canada goose permit and what is its purpose? The special Canada goose permit is a permit issued by us to a State wildlife agency authorizing certain resident Canada goose management and control activities that are normally prohibited. We will only issue such a permit when it will contribute to human health and safety, protect personal property, or allow resolution or prevention of injury to people or property. The management and control activities conducted under the permit are intended to relieve or prevent injurious situations only. No person should construe the permit as opening, reopening, or extending any hunting season contrary to any regulations established under Section 3 of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.
(b) Who may receive a permit? Only State wildlife agencies (State) are eligible to receive a permit to undertake the various goose management and control activities. Additionally, only employees or designated agents of a permitted State wildlife agency may undertake activities for injurious resident Canada geese in accordance with the conditions specified in the permit, conditions contained in 50 CFR part 13, and conditions specified in paragraph (d) of this section.
(c) How does a State apply for a permit? Any State wildlife agency wishing to obtain a permit must submit an application to the appropriate Regional Director (see § 13.11(b) of this subchapter) containing the general information and certification required by § 13.12(a) of this subchapter plus the following information:
(1) A detailed statement showing that the goose management and control activities will either provide for human health and safety, protect personal property, or allow resolution of other injury to people or property;
(2) An estimate of the size of the resident Canada goose breeding population in the State;
(3) The requested annual take of resident Canada geese, including eggs and nests;
(4) A statement indicating that the State will inform and brief all employees and designated agents of the requirements of these regulations and permit conditions.
(d) What are the conditions of the permit? The special Canada goose permits are subject to the general conditions in 50 CFR part 13, the conditions elsewhere in this section, and, unless otherwise specifically authorized on the permit, the conditions outlined below:
(1) What are the limitations on management and control activities?
(i) Take of resident Canada geese as a management tool under this section may not exceed the number authorized by the permit. States should utilize non-lethal goose management tools to the extent they deem appropriate in an effort to minimize lethal take.
(ii) Methods of take for the control of injurious resident Canada geese are at the State's discretion. Methods include, but are not limited to, firearms, alpha-chloralose, traps, egg and nest manipulation and other damage control techniques consistent with accepted wildlife damage-management programs.
(2) When may a State conduct management and control activities? States and their employees and agents may conduct management and control activities, including the take of resident Canada geese, under this section between March 11 and August 31. In California, Oregon and Washington, in areas where the threatened Aleutian Canada goose (B. c. leucoperia) has been present during the previous 10 years, lethal control activities are restricted to May 1 through August 31, inclusive.
(3) How must the States dispose or utilize geese taken under this permit? States and their employees and agents may possess, transport, and otherwise dispose of Canada geese taken under this section. States must utilize such birds by donation to public museums or public institutions for scientific or educational purposes, by processing them for human consumption and distributing them free of charge to charitable organizations, or by burying or incinerating them. States, their employees, and designated agents may not sell, offer for sale, barter, or ship for the purpose of sale or barter any Canada geese taken under this section, nor their plumage or eggs.
(4) How does the permit relate to existing State law? No person conducting management and control activities under this section should construe the permit to authorize the killing of injurious resident Canada geese contrary to any State law or regulation, nor on any Federal land without specific authorization by the responsible management agency. No person may exercise the privileges granted under this section unless they possess any permits required for such activities by any State or Federal land manager.

[Oletimer]

Just wondering if Canada has Canadian geese and do they export them to U.S. and Lake Winnipesaukee? How does Canada deal with their poop? Can we return them to our northern neighbor?

[RailroadJoe]

I think they call them American geese up north.

[Lakegeezer]

There was a NH Lakes Association sponsored water congress today in Meredith. I learned that one technique to keep geese from coming ashore is to grow vegetation along the shoreline. When geese can't see over the grasses and bushes from the water, they fear a predator is behind the barrier and look for somewhere else to come ashore. You can still access your shoreline by building the buffer in a maze like path, rather than a straight line. The plantings are called a riparian buffer, and also have a beneficial primary purpose of absorbing nutrients and sediment from rain water run-off.

[Onshore]

If you have nuisance gees and you want to scare them off, then I can understand. If you hunt geese because you think they are tasty or you hunt them and give the food to others, I can understand. If you happen upon wildlife of any kind, including geese, and you just think it is fun to terrorize and intimidate it...well, perhaps you should seek help for that.

[BroadHopper]

Where do geese go to seek help after terrorizing and intimidating the humans?

[Phantom]

Perhaps the Canadian Embassy ?


Just sayin



.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by shore things

If you have nuisance gees and you want to scare them off, then I can understand. If you hunt geese because you think they are tasty or you hunt them and give the food to others, I can understand. If you happen upon wildlife of any kind, including geese, and you just think it is fun to terrorize and intimidate it...well, perhaps you should seek help for that.

I agree that wildlife shouldn't be "terrorized" or harassed under any circumstance. However, if they overrun an area simply scaring them off does nothing to solve the problem because they just move around and continue to breed unchecked. In these circumstances their numbers should be reduced in a humane manner and if at all possible the meat should be donated. However, sometimes the meat cannot be donated as the government has lots of rules and regulations (surprise) surrounding disposal of the meat.

[Onshore]

Secondcurve - I believe we are in complete agreement. We live in an environment where wildlife needs to be managed. My point was that, while I have no problem with proper wildlife management I get the sense that the individual involved in the incident originally described seemed to just enjoy being mean to the geese. If that is the case, then there is no excuse for such behavior. Killing, injuring or terrorizing any animal simply to enjoy watching the animal's fear and pain is disturbing.

[tis]

I agree, anybody who hurts an animal just for fun is sick. However, I do wish the geese would go away. Is there anything planned to help curb the population growth before they destroy the lake water? Wouldn't that be a lake consideration just as development is?

[Onshore]

That would be NH Fish & Game and US Fish and Wildlife's call. I can't speak for them.

[wifi]

I've been watching my dock, and I haven't seen any Green Alligators, Humpty back Whales, Chimpanzees, (or Unicorns)....

Sorry I couldn't resist