truck through ice

PCTim · 02-03-2015, 11:21 AM

Just thought I'd respond to a couple of things seeing as I was there

1. Where the truck went in is always a little thinner due to the falls/river from across the street. If the guy is a vendor, he's probably been there before and SHOULD know.

2. When they were setting up to recover the vehicle, I watched an auger go at LEAST 2 feet in before hitting water, and they were no more than 20 feet from the truck itself. Ice thickness varies.

3. Scott Crowder does a great job making sure everything is SAFE for all of the people. This year there were 250 teams, over 1,700 participants on 24 rinks. I emailed him personally to check on ice thickness because I was thinking of putting a trailer out there for my team (didn't do it) and he told me the thickness varied, but was 12+ inches around all of the rinks. Believe me, if it wasn't safe, he wouldn't have it there.

4. When leaving Sunday I noticed stakes and caution tape around the area where the truck went in. A little late, but better than nothing.

5. On Friday when walking out on the ice from the boat ramp at the town docks, I noticed a sign about ice thickness and it never being safe, but I can't remember exactly what it said.

Finally, on a personal note. The tournament was a blast and well run. The ONLY thing I would change is maybe either keep the snowmobiles away from the rinks, or give them a separate lane to travel through. Too many people/kids walking around for them to be cruising through. It's crowded enough without having to dodge the big machines, especially when they leave them in the middle of the trail to go get a coffee or something. While MOST snowmobilers are considerate, there are always a few jerks out there (as with anything). Us skaters are only there for a weekend, you guys have all winter. Just asking for a little space.

VitaBene · 02-03-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCTim

Just thought I'd respond to a couple of things seeing as I was there

1. Where the truck went in is always a little thinner due to the falls/river from across the street. If the guy is a vendor, he's probably been there before and SHOULD know.

2. When they were setting up to recover the vehicle, I watched an auger go at LEAST 2 feet in before hitting water, and they were no more than 20 feet from the truck itself. Ice thickness varies.

3. Scott Crowder does a great job making sure everything is SAFE for all of the people. This year there were 250 teams, over 1,700 participants on 24 rinks. I emailed him personally to check on ice thickness because I was thinking of putting a trailer out there for my team (didn't do it) and he told me the thickness varied, but was 12+ inches around all of the rinks. Believe me, if it wasn't safe, he wouldn't have it there.

4. When leaving Sunday I noticed stakes and caution tape around the area where the truck went in. A little late, but better than nothing.

5. On Friday when walking out on the ice from the boat ramp at the town docks, I noticed a sign about ice thickness and it never being safe, but I can't remember exactly what it said.

Finally, on a personal note. The tournament was a blast and well run. The ONLY thing I would change is maybe either keep the snowmobiles away from the rinks, or give them a separate lane to travel through. Too many people/kids walking around for them to be cruising through. It's crowded enough without having to dodge the big machines, especially when they leave them in the middle of the trail to go get a coffee or something. While MOST snowmobilers are considerate, there are always a few jerks out there (as with anything). Us skaters are only there for a weekend, you guys have all winter. Just asking for a little space.

Tim,

Thank you for your observations. Regarding the snowmobiles- a separate lane would be nice, but people will still need to be able to cross it on foot. The snowmobile trail is set with the Bureau of Trails, Fish & Game, and DOT (especially for the road crossing location. They are difficult at best to move, even temporarily!

GTO · 02-03-2015, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Tim,

Thank you for your observations. Regarding the snowmobiles- a separate lane would be nice, but people will still need to be able to cross it on foot. The snowmobile trail is set with the Bureau of Trails, Fish & Game, and DOT (especially for the road crossing location. They are difficult at best to move, even temporarily!

I went to the tounament by skimobile on Saturday. When we got there the horn had just gone off so all the players were leaving the rinks so there was alot of foot/skate traffic. We sat there and just waited till everyone passed and it was safe to proceed. I'm sure any place you go, you're going to run into a few inconsiderate people

PCTim · 02-03-2015, 04:34 PM

Didn't realize the trail was set like that. Maybe instead of one set of ropes to mark the trail, maybe two sets? One would be for the sleds, the other for pedestrians (kinda like a sidewalk). Just a thought.

Yes GTO, plenty of considerate people out there, unfortunately, a few not so considerate as well. I will admit, this year was much better than last year, but the weather might have had something to do with it.

Again, not trying to cause a fuss, but when you see these big powerful machines sharing space with hundreds of people on foot (including kids), it can be a recipe for disaster. Last year I saw a small child (no more than 10) cruising around on a pretty big sled no too far from where the truck went in this year. Wondered where the parents were. Then again, there were kids resting their chins on the boards of the rink last year during a game and when play got near them, the mother yelled at us players to watch out. Makes you wonder...

Can't wait until next year!

secondcurve · 02-03-2015, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCTim

Didn't realize the trail was set like that. Maybe instead of one set of ropes to mark the trail, maybe two sets? One would be for the sleds, the other for pedestrians (kinda like a sidewalk). Just a thought.

Yes GTO, plenty of considerate people out there, unfortunately, a few not so considerate as well. I will admit, this year was much better than last year, but the weather might have had something to do with it.

Again, not trying to cause a fuss, but when you see these big powerful machines sharing space with hundreds of people on foot (including kids), it can be a recipe for disaster. Last year I saw a small child (no more than 10) cruising around on a pretty big sled no too far from where the truck went in this year. Wondered where the parents were. Then again, there were kids resting their chins on the boards of the rink last year during a game and when play got near them, the mother yelled at us players to watch out. Makes you wonder...

Can't wait until next year!

Tim: I couldn't agree with you more. I took my kids to the games on Sunday and there was a couple of folks whipping by on sleds with very little regard for the pedestrians. I also would exclude the sleds from the main pedestrian traffic if I were Mr. Crowder. That being said, for a young guy he certainly runs a first class operations that gets noticeably better each year. What a great way to drive tourism to Meredith at a time of year when activity can be slow. Crowder and McLear should team up and see what they can come up with for the Weirs. God knows that place needs all the help it can get.

WeirsBeachBoater · 02-03-2015, 11:08 PM

I am a snowmobiler, I also enjoy the Pond Hockey Tournament. The PHC people put their rinks next to an established trail. The Snowmobilers didn't put their trail next to PHC rinks. The lake is a state resource, and therefore open to all to enjoy, We the snowmobilers and ice fishermen, make adjustments when the pond hockey classic arrived in town and Staked out acres of the lake for their exclusive use. This starts about 3 weeks prior to the tournament. Now I am sorry a few bad apples made snowmobilers look bad. However I feel that the Hockey tournament is much more of a impact than the snowmobiles passing by. Can't we all just get along

PCTim · 02-04-2015, 09:28 AM

Not looking to keep the sleds away at all, just suggesting that maybe it would be safer to separate the vehicles from the pedestrians for safety purposes. Kind of like having sidewalks. I'm sure the last thing anyone wants is for someone who isn't paying attention to wander in front of a moving snowmobile. That doesn't end well for anyone.

And yes, we all CAN get along. 99% of the people on BOTH sides are decent people just looking to have a good time. Believe me, I saw my share of idiot skaters this weekend too...

WeirsBeachBoater · 02-04-2015, 04:20 PM

Maybe a simple shift to the east would work? If you just shifted everything over 50ft? Then the snowmobile trail would be behind the "Vendors Row"? Therefore most of the pedestrian traffic would be between the rinks and the vendors, and snowmobile traffic would be separated from most of the spectators?

Woodsy · 02-04-2015, 04:34 PM

Why is it people have to make a problem when there isn't one?

There have been NO snowmobile/ATV vs. pedestrian accidents during the PHC. EVER! Yes, there is a potential hazard... there is also a much higher potential hazard that a pedestrian could slip & fall and get seriously injured on the ice. Maybe we should sand the ice to prevent that? Maybe require all of the spectators to wear helmets?

It's called....

Wait for it....

Personal Responsibility!

I know here in the weird world of Winnipesaukee, Personal Responsibility is obviously unheard of!

Woodsy

PS: The guy who sank his truck... Yup! It is his Personal Responsibility to check the ice where he parked it.

Jersey Ed · 02-04-2015, 06:07 PM

This may be a stupid question, but, if the snowmobile trail is "set" and can't be moved, would it make any sense to set an appropriate speed limit thru the conflicted area.

PCTim · 02-04-2015, 08:10 PM

Gee, that escalated quickly.

I'm glad there have been no accidents. And just like your tagline says, you can't fix stupid. I have plenty of personal responsibility, for myself and my family. However, I can't control what the other person is going to do. And if that person is on a 500 lb machine capable of speeds over 100 mph then I'm going to do everything in my power to stay out of their way...

Didn't mean to blow up this thread. I was just making an observation. I realize the snowmobilers were here first, and I'm not looking to take anything away from anybody. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt.

Woodsy · 02-05-2015, 10:10 AM

PCTim...

I didn't mean my post as an escalation. I just want people to stop and think....

Consider some of the stuff you do EVERY DAY and compare it to your post about the sled trail.

You drive your car down a road at 50 MPH and think nothing off the guy approaching you at the same speed, less than 4' away... the only thing preventing a tragedy is a painted yellow line... and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility)

You walk down the sidewalk and cars pass you at the same 30 MPH... nothing preventing a tragedy here except a 6" curb and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility)

Sure, there is a slim possibility that an out of control sled could seriously injure someone. But the chances are very, very remote. You are right that you cannot control what another person is going to do. But NO AMOUNT OF LAWS can prevent someone from doing something stupid. A rope between the sleds and pedestrians will not stop an out of control sled, any more than it will stop a pedestrian from not using a crosswalk and stepping out in front of a sled or car.

JerseyEd... There is a speed limit. You cannot go faster than 10MPH when within 150' of a person or a bobhouse...

Woodsy

PCTim · 02-06-2015, 09:35 AM

You walk down the sidewalk and cars pass you at the same 30 MPH... nothing preventing a tragedy here except a 6" curb and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility)

This is exactly my point. The car is in the street, the person is on the sidewalk. The vehicles and the pedestrians are not sharing the same space like they are here. You don't walk down the middle of the street, you walk on the sidewalk (or if there is none, on the side of the road).

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to take anything away from anybody. I simply made an observation about how it gets kind of crowded and possibly unsafe when pedestrians and vehicles try to share a small space and I came up with what I thought might be a simple solution (2 paths instead of 1).

02-03-2015, 11:08 PM	#6
WeirsBeachBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 709 Blog Entries: 9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 148 Times in 65 Posts	Snowmobiles I am a snowmobiler, I also enjoy the Pond Hockey Tournament. The PHC people put their rinks next to an established trail. The Snowmobilers didn't put their trail next to PHC rinks. The lake is a state resource, and therefore open to all to enjoy, We the snowmobilers and ice fishermen, make adjustments when the pond hockey classic arrived in town and Staked out acres of the lake for their exclusive use. This starts about 3 weeks prior to the tournament. Now I am sorry a few bad apples made snowmobilers look bad. However I feel that the Hockey tournament is much more of a impact than the snowmobiles passing by. Can't we all just get along

02-04-2015, 04:34 PM	#9
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,968 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	There isnt a problem.. Why is it people have to make a problem when there isn't one? There have been NO snowmobile/ATV vs. pedestrian accidents during the PHC. EVER! Yes, there is a potential hazard... there is also a much higher potential hazard that a pedestrian could slip & fall and get seriously injured on the ice. Maybe we should sand the ice to prevent that? Maybe require all of the spectators to wear helmets? It's called.... Wait for it.... Personal Responsibility! I know here in the weird world of Winnipesaukee, Personal Responsibility is obviously unheard of! Woodsy PS: The guy who sank his truck... Yup! It is his Personal Responsibility to check the ice where he parked it. __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

02-05-2015, 10:10 AM	#12
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,968 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	PCTim... I didn't mean my post as an escalation. I just want people to stop and think.... Consider some of the stuff you do EVERY DAY and compare it to your post about the sled trail. You drive your car down a road at 50 MPH and think nothing off the guy approaching you at the same speed, less than 4' away... the only thing preventing a tragedy is a painted yellow line... and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility) You walk down the sidewalk and cars pass you at the same 30 MPH... nothing preventing a tragedy here except a 6" curb and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility) Sure, there is a slim possibility that an out of control sled could seriously injure someone. But the chances are very, very remote. You are right that you cannot control what another person is going to do. But NO AMOUNT OF LAWS can prevent someone from doing something stupid. A rope between the sleds and pedestrians will not stop an out of control sled, any more than it will stop a pedestrian from not using a crosswalk and stepping out in front of a sled or car. JerseyEd... There is a speed limit. You cannot go faster than 10MPH when within 150' of a person or a bobhouse... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

02-03-2015, 11:21 AM	#1
PCTim Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 40 Thanks: 44 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Just thought I'd respond to a couple of things seeing as I was there 1. Where the truck went in is always a little thinner due to the falls/river from across the street. If the guy is a vendor, he's probably been there before and SHOULD know. 2. When they were setting up to recover the vehicle, I watched an auger go at LEAST 2 feet in before hitting water, and they were no more than 20 feet from the truck itself. Ice thickness varies. 3. Scott Crowder does a great job making sure everything is SAFE for all of the people. This year there were 250 teams, over 1,700 participants on 24 rinks. I emailed him personally to check on ice thickness because I was thinking of putting a trailer out there for my team (didn't do it) and he told me the thickness varied, but was 12+ inches around all of the rinks. Believe me, if it wasn't safe, he wouldn't have it there. 4. When leaving Sunday I noticed stakes and caution tape around the area where the truck went in. A little late, but better than nothing. 5. On Friday when walking out on the ice from the boat ramp at the town docks, I noticed a sign about ice thickness and it never being safe, but I can't remember exactly what it said. Finally, on a personal note. The tournament was a blast and well run. The ONLY thing I would change is maybe either keep the snowmobiles away from the rinks, or give them a separate lane to travel through. Too many people/kids walking around for them to be cruising through. It's crowded enough without having to dodge the big machines, especially when they leave them in the middle of the trail to go get a coffee or something. While MOST snowmobilers are considerate, there are always a few jerks out there (as with anything). Us skaters are only there for a weekend, you guys have all winter. Just asking for a little space.

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02-03-2015, 04:34 PM	#4
PCTim Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 40 Thanks: 44 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Didn't realize the trail was set like that. Maybe instead of one set of ropes to mark the trail, maybe two sets? One would be for the sleds, the other for pedestrians (kinda like a sidewalk). Just a thought. Yes GTO, plenty of considerate people out there, unfortunately, a few not so considerate as well. I will admit, this year was much better than last year, but the weather might have had something to do with it. Again, not trying to cause a fuss, but when you see these big powerful machines sharing space with hundreds of people on foot (including kids), it can be a recipe for disaster. Last year I saw a small child (no more than 10) cruising around on a pretty big sled no too far from where the truck went in this year. Wondered where the parents were. Then again, there were kids resting their chins on the boards of the rink last year during a game and when play got near them, the mother yelled at us players to watch out. Makes you wonder... Can't wait until next year!

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02-04-2015, 09:28 AM	#7
PCTim Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 40 Thanks: 44 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Not looking to keep the sleds away at all, just suggesting that maybe it would be safer to separate the vehicles from the pedestrians for safety purposes. Kind of like having sidewalks. I'm sure the last thing anyone wants is for someone who isn't paying attention to wander in front of a moving snowmobile. That doesn't end well for anyone. And yes, we all CAN get along. 99% of the people on BOTH sides are decent people just looking to have a good time. Believe me, I saw my share of idiot skaters this weekend too...

02-04-2015, 04:20 PM	#8
WeirsBeachBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 709 Blog Entries: 9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 148 Times in 65 Posts	Maybe a simple shift to the east would work? If you just shifted everything over 50ft? Then the snowmobile trail would be behind the "Vendors Row"? Therefore most of the pedestrian traffic would be between the rinks and the vendors, and snowmobile traffic would be separated from most of the spectators?

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02-04-2015, 06:07 PM	#10
Jersey Ed Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 24 Thanks: 231 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	This may be a stupid question, but, if the snowmobile trail is "set" and can't be moved, would it make any sense to set an appropriate speed limit thru the conflicted area.

02-04-2015, 08:10 PM	#11
PCTim Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 40 Thanks: 44 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Gee, that escalated quickly. I'm glad there have been no accidents. And just like your tagline says, you can't fix stupid. I have plenty of personal responsibility, for myself and my family. However, I can't control what the other person is going to do. And if that person is on a 500 lb machine capable of speeds over 100 mph then I'm going to do everything in my power to stay out of their way... Didn't mean to blow up this thread. I was just making an observation. I realize the snowmobilers were here first, and I'm not looking to take anything away from anybody. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt.

02-06-2015, 09:35 AM	#13
PCTim Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 40 Thanks: 44 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	You walk down the sidewalk and cars pass you at the same 30 MPH... nothing preventing a tragedy here except a 6" curb and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility) This is exactly my point. The car is in the street, the person is on the sidewalk. The vehicles and the pedestrians are not sharing the same space like they are here. You don't walk down the middle of the street, you walk on the sidewalk (or if there is none, on the side of the road). Again, I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to take anything away from anybody. I simply made an observation about how it gets kind of crowded and possibly unsafe when pedestrians and vehicles try to share a small space and I came up with what I thought might be a simple solution (2 paths instead of 1).