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#1 |
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I didn't see his speaking as disrupting the meeting. The selectmen seemed to be the ones who disrupted the meeting when they didn't want to give him his 5 minutes- even if it was a rant.
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#2 |
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It's not the rant, it's when the board asked the chief to remove Clay and Clay refused to get up and leave and he continued to talk.
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#3 |
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By virtue of the fact that the BOS acknowledged him and granted him his 5 min to speak, nothing that Mr. Clay did was out of order!! His presence and the action of speaking were allowed by the BOS and therefore must be considered "lawful" .He committed no "breach of the peace" because of those actions and I think the BOS and the Alton PD will have a hard time justifying both the arrest and the decision to call the police and ask for his removal or arrest based upon Mr. Clay's actions that evening prior to his arrest.
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#4 | |
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That’s true. His presence and the action of speaking were allowed by the BOS and therefore must be considered "lawful" . That’s true also. He committed no "breach of the peace" because of those actions. By virtue of the fact that the BOS acknowledged him and granted him his 5 min to speak, nothing that Mr. Clay did was out of order!! That’s true also. His presence and the action of speaking were allowed by the BOS and therefore must be considered "lawful" . That’s true also. He committed no "breach of the peace" because of those actions. You’re right again, there was no unlawful “breach of peace” with his rant. and I think the BOS and the Alton PD will have a hard time justifying both the arrest and the decision to call the police and ask for his removal or arrest based upon Mr. Clay's actions that evening prior to his arrest. I disagree with that statement. The Alton BOS have all the right in the world to get the police to remove someone who is disrupting there meeting. Therefore when the police chief asked Clay multiple times to leave and he refused, than the chief had no other option but to arrest him. Whether you believe that Clay’s rant was against the Alton policy has nothing to do with his arrest. Clay didn’t get arrested because of his 2 minute rant, he got arrested after the board voted to shut down public input and continued to talk and disobey the police.
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#5 | |
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For the record I don't necessarily agree with what Mr. Clay was saying, I'm just defending his, mine and your US Constitution given right to say it. CT |
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#6 |
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The BOS and other pols need to wise up and do what a smart wife does to placate and shut up her husband: "You just yes him to death then do as you please."
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#7 | |
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However the second issue where the police got involved is separate from the BOS not allowing Clay to complete his allowed 5 minutes. Clay probably should have been allowed to finish beating up the selectmen but that will have to be worked out separate from the arrest. Once the Board Chair turned Clay over to the police chief, the selectmen are (IMO) absolved from what happend after that.
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#8 | |
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Refer to the Belknap Commissioners meeting, where the deputy spoke up and disagreed that there was any disorder and (legally) refused the orders from the chair. This, IMHO, is what should have happened in Alton. In a non life threatening situation, arresting first and figuring it out later is lame. |
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#9 |
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I agree the police should be able to decide what to do. However, I imagine the Selectmen are the policeman's boss and do the hiring and firing. That puts him in a tough spot.
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#10 | |
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For instance: You go down and swear out a complaint against me, cause you don't like me, and the complaint is that I trespassed with a gun on your property. You bring a couple buddies that say the same. (We call you and your buddies the BOS) The police take the complaint and arrest me for felony trespass. Later it's found that you filed a false police report and are arrested under perjury. I sue you and the police for false arrest. Think I'd win only from the police or would you also be held accountable. This I what is going on here with this case. ToW |
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#11 |
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As far as I know there hasn't been any determined illegal action by the BoS or the Police Dept.
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#12 | |
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"Once the Board Chair turned Clay over to the police chief, the selectmen are (IMO) absolved from what happend after that." You said in your Humble opinion the BOS is absolved from what happened after they turned the issue over to the police. The police chief acted on the BOS word without stopping to review what was actually going on and inserted himself into the issue by arresting Clay. Therefore "if", to be determined, the BOS violated his rights then they will not be absolved of the police action they initiated. They will be complicit to the action. ToW |
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#13 | |
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Out West where I live we have some real bozos in county positions, whose idiotic actions have literally cost the taxpayers millions of dollars, only some of which is covered by insurance. A sad state of affairs: JFK called out for "the best and the brightest," and in the end we get the whack jobs. Ah, politics. |
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#14 | |
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The chief witnessed the whole thing and from what I see he had no intention of arresting Clay until he refused to stop talking and either sit in the audience or leave the meeting; Clay had those two options that were given by the board chair. I've seen where some forum member/s have said that Hussey went for the police, however the fact of the matter is that the police were there all the time.
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#15 | |
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ToW |
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#16 |
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The BOS are acting like a kid on a ball field who are saying "my ball, my rules" and then changing the rules in the middle of the game because they aren't winning.
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#17 |
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If the Selectmen of any town don't want to listen to the people, they shouldn't run for office. They are elected to work FOR the people, not dictate TO them.
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#18 |
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I agree with this, but the time to weed these people out is election time, problem is most don't pay attention.
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#19 | |
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A truer statement was never made, ITD. Most people don't pay attention. But it is very hard to know how somebody is going to be and what they will do even if you pay attention. I have heard many over the years complain about the way the town is run and they get elected and go right along with the existing people. It is very easy to say they are going to this and that but doing it is something else. When some have run for reelection, I have read or heard what somebody SAYS they are going to do and if you look at their back history, they haven't done that at all. People most often have no idea what they are voting for. |
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#20 | |
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It is as if they have patience for what they want to hear but discredit with actions like this, those issues and folks they do not want to listen to. Government does not work that way nor is it supposed to under the right to know laws in place today. Also check on the legal bills Alton has had to pay out in the last 5-6 years, its online and its staggering. Alton and its legal representatives have taken on one losing campaign after another and one wonders why? Its right there on the website, money, big money, and the trend has been sharply upward all but a year or two. And who oversees the legal representatives of Alton, take a guess. |
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#21 | |
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this time at the School Committee meeting....
(from the Baysider may 14th) Quote:
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#22 |
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See how it could go in the BOS meeting. Just let the fellow have his say and move on. Next.
Seems they handled it the right way. Maybe they learned from the BOS. ToW |
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#23 |
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ALTON, N.H. —Charges have been dismissed against an Alton man who refused to stop talking during a town board of selectmen meeting.
Jeffrey Clay said he was robbed of his right to free speech when the council cut him off, and a judge agreed. The court called the board's actions censorship and said in the ruling that Clay did nothing wrong and arresting him violated his First Amendment rights. There is more on the WMUR site if you want to read it all. |
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#24 | |
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#25 |
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Stand up for your rights!! Now maybe the BOS will act like they should and the police state in Alton will relax a bit.
http://www.wmur.com/news/charges-dis...-case/33488002 ToW |
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#26 |
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#27 | |
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Did the BOS act rather hastily... Yep probably... the court thinks so Did the BOS learn their lesson about the abuse of power??? who knows time will tell..... Does Mr. Clay have a reputation that may have inspired the BOS to act the way they did.... Yep Probably, I know my research should he has an interesting past Who will pay for the monetary gain of the ACLU lawsuit... The tax payers... There was a mistake... let it go and move on.... PEOPLE ARENT PERFECT... lawsuits will not fix society!!!!!
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#28 |
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There is a lot to be said for moving on but, a court has found that first amendment rights were violated by the government. Enforcing accountability for that is not trivial. I would feel a greater injustice if nothing were done about it. Rock on ACLU!
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#29 | |
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As noted, the taxpayers are "the government" who pays. |
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#30 |
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Saving a few dollars per taxpayer are more important than the govt using police power to silence a citizens constitutional rights under the 1st amendment? Really? REALLY?
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#31 |
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I prefer to see our local town's limited dollars spent on educating students, repairing roads and policing the streets rather than paying the costs of defense and potential payout of a lawsuit. If that makes my priorities "weird" so be it!
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#32 |
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Agree 110% with Vitabene. A mistake was made, challenged, judicated and resolved. We don't need the town (and ultimately the tax payers) wasting money on legal fees when there are other more important issues in the town.
Get over it and move on |
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#33 | |
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I can agree that there is to much litigation in our society. However if I am ever arrested in similar circumstances, and the judge later says I was being censored, I will file a lawsuit - guaranteed! Perhaps the people posting that he should "just move on" have never been arrested, cuffed and booked when what they were doing was perfectly legal. |
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#34 |
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One can only hope the lawsuit will act to deter others from discharging their public duties in a ham-fisted, tyrannical manner.
I suspect the end-cost of litigation will be borne by the insurance carrier (assuming this is a covered risk) as opposed to the tax payers, but no doubt future insurance premiums will increase. |
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#35 |
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I used to believe that if there was no malice and no gross neglect, suing is not who I am. However, several years ago I fell on some ice at my sportsman's club that had not been cleared the day before and was now covered with a fine coat of snow. Ended up rupturing my quads. Insurance paid for the operation, short term disability paid my salary, and all I was out was the co-pay for rehab. I didn't sue even though it was negligent to not have removed the ice, particularly since the surface was directly behind the pistol ports and was on an incline. If I sued, I would only be "taxing" my own club and club members.
The next year I observed the same situation with ice not being removed. The officers of the club didn't learn their lesson. If I had sued, perhaps they would have. Who knows? |
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