M/S Mt. Washington Outruns Iceberg...

[pjard]

This might be my favorite post of all time. So far we've discussed:

Global Warming
Military Preparedness
Medicare
Social Security
Political Fundraising
Media Accuracy
Government Subsidized Programs
Marine Patrol Violations
Physics of keeping up with the Mount
&
Caterpillar Engines

All this because a few chuckleheads dressed like moose, climbed on an inflatable iceberg that looked more like the apollo re-entry capsule and then evidently capsized! You could make the argument that they got some discussion going but all I know is that I am LMAO.

[pjard]

Originally Posted by pjard

This might be my favorite post of all time. So far we've discussed:

Global Warming
Military Preparedness
Medicare
Social Security
Political Fundraising
Media Accuracy
Government Subsidized Programs
Marine Patrol Violations
Physics of keeping up with the Mount
&
Caterpillar Engines

All this because a few chuckleheads dressed like moose, climbed on an inflatable iceberg that looked more like the apollo re-entry capsule and then evidently capsized! You could make the argument that they got some discussion going but all I know is that I am LMAO.

Adding Pop-Tarts to my list of topics discussed in this thread.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by pjard

Adding Pop-Tarts to my list of topics discussed in this thread.

Anything I can do to contribute to the topic at hand.

[ITD]

I think the iceberg idea creation involved either alcohol or ganja.

[pjard]

Originally Posted by pjard

Adding Pop-Tarts to my list of topics discussed in this thread.

New topics discussed:

Dinosaurs
Carbon Dating
The Creation Musuem
The connection between icebergs and moose costumes
Gas Tax
Ganja

I can hardly keep up!

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by pjard

New topics discussed:

Dinosaurs
Carbon Dating
The Creation Musuem
The connection between icebergs and moose costumes
Gas Tax
Ganja

I can hardly keep up!

You left out rhubarb

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by pjard

New topics discussed:

Dinosaurs
Carbon Dating
The Creation Musuem
The connection between icebergs and moose costumes
Gas Tax
Ganja

I can hardly keep up!

You forgot the meta-discussion about what is being discussed.

[MGWillia]

Here is a discussion that never seems to end. I posted this a bit back while I was in Ohio and there were some "different" weather patterns happening. I think it translates ok.

It's not rocket science. (well maybe) Scientists tend to confuse me. They give me a list of "facts" that I'm suppose to believe or be considered ignorant.

Fact 1: where I sit typing was once covered by over a mile of ice.

Fact 2: Where I sit, during the Silurian period, Ohio was in near equatorial weather patterns.

Fact 3: Scientists tell us that the "Ice Age" phenomena is on going and takes thousands of years to hit bottom (the coldest) and then thousands more to hit the top (warmest) Creating a gradient scale over time.

Fact 4: Scientists tell us that the universe came into being during a "Big Bang" explosion sending particles, large and small, collecting, solidifying, cooling into planets, and other celestial bodies and debris which continue an outward expansion through space and time.

Fact 5: Scientists tell us that the unique weather patterns that we have grown use to during our lives and that we know as "Ohio" weather are a direct reflection of our exposure to the Sun's rays and that winter and summer are determined by our orbit around the sun and the tilt of our poles. Neither of which they tell us are constants.

Now, I get all that. But then on top of that the tell us that it is our fault that the weather patterns are changing. And its our doing. Even though, individually, Mt. St Helen's and Vesuvius, individually in their day, put more pollutants into the atmosphere than all of mankind's creations from his emergence from the sea. (lets not even get started about Kīlauea that has been in constant eruption since 1983.) And they tell us, we have the power to fix it. Oh well, good thing I'm one of those people who believe in intelligent design. Otherwise I might lose sleep over 60 degree weather in Ohio and a greatly needed input of precipitation in desert areas (which use to be fertile wetlands) getting snow.

Is there Climate Change... Science says yes. It also says that climate has always changed. If the balance of normal weather is so dependent on the precise angles of the poles in an ever expanding big bang universe and we know that there is a constant cycle to ice ages and their converse, maybe.. Just maybe the reason that it is still warm in November and early December and that here we sit with a bit of chill in the air in June, maybe things continue, as the scientists tell us, to change. Maybe things have shifted enough to shift seasons by a month... Maybe things enough to change things again. even though in the insignificant amount of time scientists say we have been here, gives us a limited "realtime" look at temperatures and trends. Maybe if we wonder, as some have speculated that carbon dating is iffy. Maybe much of what we THINK we know about the past is iffy.

Ok, my 2 cents. I'll go back to putting my head in the sand.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

Here is a discussion that never seems to end. I posted this a bit back while I was in Ohio and there were some "different" weather patterns happening. I think it translates ok.

It's not rocket science. (well maybe) Scientists tend to confuse me. They give me a list of "facts" that I'm suppose to believe or be considered ignorant.

Fact 1: where I sit typing was once covered by over a mile of ice.

Fact 2: Where I sit, during the Silurian period, Ohio was in near equatorial weather patterns.

Fact 3: Scientists tell us that the "Ice Age" phenomena is on going and takes thousands of years to hit bottom (the coldest) and then thousands more to hit the top (warmest) Creating a gradient scale over time.

Fact 4: Scientists tell us that the universe came into being during a "Big Bang" explosion sending particles, large and small, collecting, solidifying, cooling into planets, and other celestial bodies and debris which continue an outward expansion through space and time.

Fact 5: Scientists tell us that the unique weather patterns that we have grown use to during our lives and that we know as "Ohio" weather are a direct reflection of our exposure to the Sun's rays and that winter and summer are determined by our orbit around the sun and the tilt of our poles. Neither of which they tell us are constants.

Now, I get all that. But then on top of that the tell us that it is our fault that the weather patterns are changing. And its our doing. Even though, individually, Mt. St Helen's and Vesuvius, individually in their day, put more pollutants into the atmosphere than all of mankind's creations from his emergence from the sea. (lets not even get started about Kīlauea that has been in constant eruption since 1983.) And they tell us, we have the power to fix it. Oh well, good thing I'm one of those people who believe in intelligent design. Otherwise I might lose sleep over 60 degree weather in Ohio and a greatly needed input of precipitation in desert areas (which use to be fertile wetlands) getting snow.

Is there Climate Change... Science says yes. It also says that climate has always changed. If the balance of normal weather is so dependent on the precise angles of the poles in an ever expanding big bang universe and we know that there is a constant cycle to ice ages and their converse, maybe.. Just maybe the reason that it is still warm in November and early December and that here we sit with a bit of chill in the air in June, maybe things continue, as the scientists tell us, to change. Maybe things have shifted enough to shift seasons by a month... Maybe things enough to change things again. even though in the insignificant amount of time scientists say we have been here, gives us a limited "realtime" look at temperatures and trends. Maybe if we wonder, as some have speculated that carbon dating is iffy. Maybe much of what we THINK we know about the past is iffy.

Ok, my 2 cents. I'll go back to putting my head in the sand.

There are many known influences. The orbit of the earth wobbles affecting distance from the sun over hundreds of thousands of years, rising and falling volcanic emissions, though currently man puts about 120 times more into the atmosphere than volanos do. None of those prevent the massive carbon load we add, around 30 Billion tons yrly vs around 200 million tons from volcanos, thats Billion vs million, from having an effect.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

There are many known influences. The orbit of the earth wobbles affecting distance from the sun over hundreds of thousands of years, rising and falling volcanic emissions, though currently man puts about 120 times more into the atmosphere than volanos do. None of those prevent the massive carbon load we add, around 30 Billion tons yrly vs around 200 million tons from volcanos, thats Billion vs million, from having an effect.

Volcanos produce a tiny fraction of all the CO2 produced naturally so comparing man's production of CO2 to that low source number is going to make man's output seem huge.

Respiration of living creatures produces 220 Billion tons of CO2. Compared to that, man's 30 Billion tons is about 14%. Not tiny but not huge either.

Now if we could just get all living creature to hold their breath, permanently, - problems solved.

[wifi]

Maybe we can turn this thread into a discussion of overpopulation ?

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Volcanos produce a tiny fraction of all the CO2 produced naturally so comparing man's production of CO2 to that low source number is going to make man's output seem huge.

Respiration of living creatures produces 220 Billion tons of CO2. Compared to that, man's 30 Billion tons is about 14%. Not tiny but not huge either.

Now if we could just get all living creature to hold their breath, permanently, - problems solved.

And with additional warmth comes even more respiration of carbon. And more permafrost melt starting to release a truly epic addtional carbon load, followed by even warmer temps and even more respiration, and...well...you get the point. What we know from direct measurement over 200 years or so is that carbon dioxide is 40% higher than it was 200 years ago. With co2 still being less that 1% of total atmosphere you might be tempted to think its not a big deal. Except that tiny portion of co2 is crazy good at capturing heat. There are other gases that trap more per molecule but they have a short presence in the atmosphere. Co2 is with us for around 100 years. We are throwing fuel on the fire in a sense. Long lasting fuel.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

And with additional warmth comes even more respiration of carbon. And more permafrost melt starting to release a truly epic addtional carbon load, followed by even warmer temps and even more respiration, and...well...you get the point. What we know from direct measurement over 200 years or so is that carbon dioxide is 40% higher than it was 200 years ago. With co2 still being less that 1% of total atmosphere you might be tempted to think its not a big deal. Except that tiny portion of co2 is crazy good at capturing heat. There are other gases that trap more per molecule but they have a short presence in the atmosphere. Co2 is with us for around 100 years. We are throwing fuel on the fire in a sense. Long lasting fuel.

Actually many gases have much longer lifetimes and Global warming potential vastly greater than CO2. Water vapor has a very short lifetime and potentially contributes between 1/3 to 3/4 of any warming that may or may not be occurring. Since 70% of the earth's surface is covered in water, there is a virtually unlimited source of this greenhouse gas. Water vapor effects are much greater than CO2.

Further, although CO2 has increased, temperatures have not. So the theoretical impacts of CO2 have yet to be proven in the extremely complex climate system.

[ApS]

Video at the site, to close this thread out:

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/72829