Lake George Speed Limit working?

Fat Jack · 01-01-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

You heard it hear (sic) first. If Winni does end up with a speed limit ... there will be plenty of boats exceeding the speed limit because the marine is underfunded and understaffed... Nothing much will change.

Breaking the law must be exciting too, eh? Will this just add another level of "excitement" to the weekend go-fast experience?

Taz · 01-02-2006, 11:24 PM

So Island Lover, I suppose you obey speed limit laws every time you drive your car? Why would you think it will be any different on the lake.

I have never thought that boaters in any significant quantity will leave the lake if the law passes. I think the speed limit opponents are guilty of scare tactics when they use this one. But the speed limit supporters whole basis for a speed limit is a scare tactic so I will give the opponents a pass on that one.

The majority of high performance boats I see on the lake either call Winnipesaukee home or they call NH home so I do not see many leaving. Even if they all did obey the speed limit they will still be noisy. What will all the supporters do then? Personally, I believe this is the biggest reason this law was started, noise, not speed.

And no, I am not saying don't pass a law because it will be broken. I have always believed the law should not pass because its not necessary. I am simply pointing out what I believe is reality. And I believe reality is that most high performance boats are not leaving, many will exceed the speed limit, the marine patrol will be relatively ineffective in enforcing it and nothing much will change.

And no I did not FORGET to mention that the woman buying the hydroplane did it for historical reasons or that the hydroplane will go to a museum. I didn't mention it because the article I read said nothing about historical reasons or a museum. She said she bought it because her daughter bought one and enjoyed it so she thought she would to. She also admitted in the article to breaking the speed limit the first time she used it (55 mph). I have no doubt that as she gets used to how it handles she will be going faster.

Woodsy · 01-02-2006, 11:48 PM

I wonder how many of the Pro HB-162 crowd have actually boated on Lake George? I boat there, and there are two well publicized Donzi events held on Lake George every year. I think 2006 will be 10th year for these events.

In any case, Lake George does have a speed limit. They don't have a 150' safe passage rule, with the exception of distance to the shoreline.

However, this speed limit is NOT aggressively enforced. I have never witnessed anyone getting a speeding ticket on Lake George. I read somewhere that NY publishes the amount of tickets written on Lake George because its a state park and there is an access fee. I believe the grand total was 5 speeding violations written. I am going to try and track that report down. It should make for some interesting reading...

Woodsy

ApS · 01-05-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"I wonder how many of the Pro HB-162 crowd have actually boated on Lake George? I boat there...Lake George does have a speed limit. They don't have a 150' safe passage rule, with the exception of distance to the shoreline..."

Here's the exact quote from the Lake George site:

Quote:

"...Near shore maximum is 5 mph within 100 feet of shore, dock or stationary boats, rafts, floats, etc. On the main lake: Daytime limit (6am-9pm) is 45mph; Night limit (9pm-6am) is 25 mph. Remember: Safe boaters travel at more conservative speeds..."

Hopefully, this will clear up -- too -- what was written here as fact.

fatlazyless · 01-05-2006, 09:12 AM

6am - 9pm, 6am - 9pm, 6am - 9pm, that's about 15 hours from 6am - 9pm. Now, that makes some good safe boating sense to me, thisy here 6am -9pm side of the speed limit law. You know, that summer-time sun takes a long, long time before it goes ker-ker-ker-kerplunk.....splash, and sets down behind the twin peaks of Mts Belknap & Gunstock.

6am to 9pm.........................hut-hut!

Cal · 01-05-2006, 09:24 AM

APS,
I read this on the LG site you posted. Sounds like these people really know what they're doing.
"Personal Watercraft (PWC)
Personal watercraft may be operated between 8am and 7pm(or until sunset)-whichever is earlier. Speed must be limited to 5 mph within 500 feet of shore except when proceeding directly to and from shore. "

By the sounds of this , a jet ski can run right up to the beach at 45 mph. Smart people huh?

Woodsy · 01-05-2006, 10:47 AM

APS...

Have you actually boated on Lake George?

I stand by my post... Lake George does not have a 150' safe passage law. They have a 100' safe passage law, that as you so nicely pointed out only applies to shorelines, docks, rafts, stationary boats etc. Their safe passage law has nothing to do with two moving boats, who can legally pass as close as they want, as long as they are traveling under 45MPH. So you are right, because you were moored, you were technically a stationary boat. Had you been in the process of rowing your boat to your mooring, the other boater could have come as close to you as he wanted, certainly far more that you would have been comfortable with, legally.

Here is the link to your original story/post.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...99&postcount=1

I didn't think legal moorings could be that far out into the lake.

I stand by my post!

Woodsy

Cal · 01-05-2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

APS...

Have you actually boated on Lake George?

I stand by my post... Lake George does not have a 150' safe passage law. They have a 100' safe passage law, that as you so nicely pointed out only applies to shorelines, docks, rafts, stationary boats etc. Their safe passage law has nothing to do with two moving boats, who can legally pass as close as they want, as long as they are traveling under 45MPH. So you are right, because you were moored, you were technically a stationary boat. Had you been in the process of rowing your boat to your mooring, the other boater could have come as close to you as he wanted, certainly far more that you would have been comfortable with, legally.

Here is the link to your original story/post.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...99&postcount=1

I didn't think legal moorings could be that far out into the lake.

I stand by my post!

Woodsy

Sounds as though someone in that post ([url]http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22199&postcount=1) was "fishing". Wonder if there was any other witnesses

ApS · 01-10-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I stand by my post... Lake George does not have a 150' safe passage law. They have a 100' safe passage law, that as you so nicely pointed out only applies to shorelines, docks, rafts, stationary boats etc. Their safe passage law has nothing to do with two moving boats, who can legally pass as close as they want, as long as they are traveling under 45MPH. So you are right, because you were moored, you were technically a stationary boat. Had you been in the process of rowing your boat to your mooring, the other boater could have come as close to you as he wanted, certainly far more that you would have been comfortable with, legally.

Here is the link to your original story/post.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...99&postcount=1

I didn't think legal moorings could be that far out into the lake....

My mooring is 60' off my 50' dock.

Depending at what depth Lakeport has maintained, a boat moored there could easily extend 150' from shore. Prevailing breezes keep it closer.

The incident was in October, at an unusually high water period, in sunny, calm weather, with scant boating activity. (Pardon...my alleged incident).

As to the safe passage, I'd take Lake George's speed limit any day. Winnipesaukee, which allows limitless speed, has a 150-safe-passage law that is ineptly enforced and everywhere violated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordsy

APS...

Have you actually boated on Lake George?

My grandfather, who was a medical doctor and an outdoorman, sold his Lake Sebago camp to enjoy Winnipesaukee's shores.

My father first attended, then was employed by, Camp Wyanoke.

I attended Camp Wyanoke, which gave me a great appreciation for the "Smile of the Great Spirit" that surrounded us.

For me, there's only Lake Winnipesaukee.

Island Lover · 01-02-2006, 11:54 PM

We all know that you can drive through speed traps on Rt 93 at 5 or 10 MPH over the speed limit and not be stopped. The same will be true on the lake.

But we also know that if you were to drive Rt 93 at 100 plus, then before long you will have serious trouble. And if that guy with the boat that goes opens it up, the Marine Patrol Will be happy to deal with him.

This is what the official opposition web site says about boaters leaving the lake, read the statements.

http://www.opposehb162.com/opposehb162/economy.htm

Aquadeziac · 01-04-2006, 11:11 AM

Looking at that link:

First of all, the logic there is the same type used by the guy that got up at a forum meeting this summer in favor of the Bill by saying "I am a Bass fisherman and my boat will only do 45 mph, Please pass the speed limit so I can be more competitive in the tournaments" duh!

Secondly, if all these go fasters do leave as they threaten to, that just means the lake will become more appealing to families with pontoon boats and smaller, slower family boats. They will now rent where the go fasters vacated and pump money into the local area. The down side of that is??

Thirdly, "Property values will go down if the go fasters pull out" Maybe that just means property will be more affordable for the middle income families that will be bringing their slower boats and revenue to the Lake's Region. Again, the downside is?

Finally, my feeling is, pass the Law, and wave good-bye as the go-fasters leave, and post their McMansions 'For Sale' cuz there is always someone ready to come in. Bottom line is, there will always be someone there to come in and take the go-fasters place. They will continue to pump money into the regions economy. And if the Law does pass, you will see just how many empty threats of leaving were made.

Cal · 01-04-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

Secondly, if all these go fasters do leave as they threaten to, that just means the lake will become more appealing to families with pontoon boats and smaller, slower family boats. They will now rent where the go fasters vacated and pump money into the local area. The down side of that is??

Yeah , that's just what the lake needs ...more clueless "rental" captains on the water.

I'm seriously beginning to hope you get what you wish for

Taz · 01-04-2006, 10:08 PM

So Island Lover, you just confirmed that its acceptable to break speed limit laws (going 5-10 mph over the speed limit) Does that mean it will be acceptable to break the speed limit if it passes for the lake? What were you saying about inserting "foot in mouth" in your earlier post?

you can count on one hand the boats that are capable of going 100 mph on the lake & even less that even attempt to exceed 90. 99.9% are operating in the 50-70 mph range. So what happens when these boats continue to operate in this range, creating the noise that the supporters are trying to stop? This is what is happening now, its reality & it will not change. It will be business as usual because as you said earlier, exceeding the speed limit will not be an issue with regard to the marine patrol as long as it is not outrageous.

Those statements you reference are a very, very very small representation of the total of boaters who use the lake during boating season. The few that do not return will not be noticed. As I said earlier, in my opinion thats not a good argument to oppose the bill.

SAMIAM · 01-05-2006, 11:15 AM

The go fast boaters don't worry me...they are experienced and educated drivers.It's the rental boats that scare me.Most of them head out without any training or knowledge of the laws and account for far more accidents than other boats.
I still say that education is what is needed.

01-05-2006, 09:12 AM	#5
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,773 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,019 Times in 741 Posts	6am - 9pm...... 6am - 9pm, 6am - 9pm, 6am - 9pm, that's about 15 hours from 6am - 9pm. Now, that makes some good safe boating sense to me, thisy here 6am -9pm side of the speed limit law. You know, that summer-time sun takes a long, long time before it goes ker-ker-ker-kerplunk.....splash, and sets down behind the twin peaks of Mts Belknap & Gunstock. 6am to 9pm.........................hut-hut!

01-05-2006, 09:24 AM	#6
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	APS, I read this on the LG site you posted. Sounds like these people really know what they're doing. "Personal Watercraft (PWC) Personal watercraft may be operated between 8am and 7pm(or until sunset)-whichever is earlier. Speed must be limited to 5 mph within 500 feet of shore except when proceeding directly to and from shore. " By the sounds of this , a jet ski can run right up to the beach at 45 mph. Smart people huh? __________________ Paddle faster , I think I here banjos Last edited by Cal; 01-05-2006 at 10:50 AM.

01-04-2006, 11:11 AM	#11
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Threats will get the Law passed? Looking at that link: First of all, the logic there is the same type used by the guy that got up at a forum meeting this summer in favor of the Bill by saying "I am a Bass fisherman and my boat will only do 45 mph, Please pass the speed limit so I can be more competitive in the tournaments" duh! Secondly, if all these go fasters do leave as they threaten to, that just means the lake will become more appealing to families with pontoon boats and smaller, slower family boats. They will now rent where the go fasters vacated and pump money into the local area. The down side of that is?? Thirdly, "Property values will go down if the go fasters pull out" Maybe that just means property will be more affordable for the middle income families that will be bringing their slower boats and revenue to the Lake's Region. Again, the downside is? Finally, my feeling is, pass the Law, and wave good-bye as the go-fasters leave, and post their McMansions 'For Sale' cuz there is always someone ready to come in. Bottom line is, there will always be someone there to come in and take the go-fasters place. They will continue to pump money into the regions economy. And if the Law does pass, you will see just how many empty threats of leaving were made. __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

01-02-2006, 11:24 PM	#2
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	So Island Lover, I suppose you obey speed limit laws every time you drive your car? Why would you think it will be any different on the lake. I have never thought that boaters in any significant quantity will leave the lake if the law passes. I think the speed limit opponents are guilty of scare tactics when they use this one. But the speed limit supporters whole basis for a speed limit is a scare tactic so I will give the opponents a pass on that one. The majority of high performance boats I see on the lake either call Winnipesaukee home or they call NH home so I do not see many leaving. Even if they all did obey the speed limit they will still be noisy. What will all the supporters do then? Personally, I believe this is the biggest reason this law was started, noise, not speed. And no, I am not saying don't pass a law because it will be broken. I have always believed the law should not pass because its not necessary. I am simply pointing out what I believe is reality. And I believe reality is that most high performance boats are not leaving, many will exceed the speed limit, the marine patrol will be relatively ineffective in enforcing it and nothing much will change. And no I did not FORGET to mention that the woman buying the hydroplane did it for historical reasons or that the hydroplane will go to a museum. I didn't mention it because the article I read said nothing about historical reasons or a museum. She said she bought it because her daughter bought one and enjoyed it so she thought she would to. She also admitted in the article to breaking the speed limit the first time she used it (55 mph). I have no doubt that as she gets used to how it handles she will be going faster.

01-02-2006, 11:48 PM	#3
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	I wonder how many of the Pro HB-162 crowd have actually boated on Lake George? I boat there, and there are two well publicized Donzi events held on Lake George every year. I think 2006 will be 10th year for these events. In any case, Lake George does have a speed limit. They don't have a 150' safe passage rule, with the exception of distance to the shoreline. However, this speed limit is NOT aggressively enforced. I have never witnessed anyone getting a speeding ticket on Lake George. I read somewhere that NY publishes the amount of tickets written on Lake George because its a state park and there is an access fee. I believe the grand total was 5 speeding violations written. I am going to try and track that report down. It should make for some interesting reading... Woodsy

01-05-2006, 10:47 AM	#7
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	APS... Have you actually boated on Lake George? I stand by my post... Lake George does not have a 150' safe passage law. They have a 100' safe passage law, that as you so nicely pointed out only applies to shorelines, docks, rafts, stationary boats etc. Their safe passage law has nothing to do with two moving boats, who can legally pass as close as they want, as long as they are traveling under 45MPH. So you are right, because you were moored, you were technically a stationary boat. Had you been in the process of rowing your boat to your mooring, the other boater could have come as close to you as he wanted, certainly far more that you would have been comfortable with, legally. Here is the link to your original story/post. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...99&postcount=1 I didn't think legal moorings could be that far out into the lake. I stand by my post! Woodsy

01-02-2006, 11:54 PM	#10
Island Lover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 213 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	We all know that you can drive through speed traps on Rt 93 at 5 or 10 MPH over the speed limit and not be stopped. The same will be true on the lake. But we also know that if you were to drive Rt 93 at 100 plus, then before long you will have serious trouble. And if that guy with the boat that goes opens it up, the Marine Patrol Will be happy to deal with him. This is what the official opposition web site says about boaters leaving the lake, read the statements. http://www.opposehb162.com/opposehb162/economy.htm

01-04-2006, 10:08 PM	#13
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	So Island Lover, you just confirmed that its acceptable to break speed limit laws (going 5-10 mph over the speed limit) Does that mean it will be acceptable to break the speed limit if it passes for the lake? What were you saying about inserting "foot in mouth" in your earlier post? you can count on one hand the boats that are capable of going 100 mph on the lake & even less that even attempt to exceed 90. 99.9% are operating in the 50-70 mph range. So what happens when these boats continue to operate in this range, creating the noise that the supporters are trying to stop? This is what is happening now, its reality & it will not change. It will be business as usual because as you said earlier, exceeding the speed limit will not be an issue with regard to the marine patrol as long as it is not outrageous. Those statements you reference are a very, very very small representation of the total of boaters who use the lake during boating season. The few that do not return will not be noticed. As I said earlier, in my opinion thats not a good argument to oppose the bill.

01-05-2006, 11:15 AM	#14
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,906 Thanks: 337 Thanked 1,681 Times in 590 Posts	The go fast boaters don't worry me...they are experienced and educated drivers.It's the rental boats that scare me.Most of them head out without any training or knowledge of the laws and account for far more accidents than other boats. I still say that education is what is needed.