Village Kitchen

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

AND, I make money doing it!!! In 2014 alone I received over $460 back in cash/statement credits. I expect to be well over that number this year. It's based on the 1-5% cash back that I receive each month from purchases with my credit card. So why would I pay cash for something when I can keep it in my account, gain interest on it, and get paid to use a free loan from the CC company?

.

I wonder if you have any idea where that money "you make" comes from? Contrary to what a lot of young people think, it does not just happen. That 1-5% pay back is taken out of the merchants pocket in the form of CC fees.

Use a Debit card and they are charged one fee, use a straight CC card and it is a different amount, use the pay back cards and the fees jump up to cover the cost of the paybacks. And in addition to the fees there is a processing machine that must be bought and updated every few years and any merchant that has not invested in the new "Dip" card machines is now liable for any fraud on that card not the CC company or the bank.

So as you pat your self on the back for "earning" 1-5% on your purchases you are really paying for that and possibly a bit more to cover the aggravation factor of being in business and dealing with thousands of customers who "know" so much better how to run everyone else's business.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

I wonder if you have any idea where that money "you make" comes from? Contrary to what a lot of young people think, it does not just happen. That 1-5% pay back is taken out of the merchants pocket in the form of CC fees.

Use a Debit card and they are charged one fee, use a straight CC card and it is a different amount, use the pay back cards and the fees jump up to cover the cost of the paybacks. And in addition to the fees there is a processing machine that must be bought and updated every few years and any merchant that has not invested in the new "Dip" card machines is now liable for any fraud on that card not the CC company or the bank.

So as you pat your self on the back for "earning" 1-5% on your purchases you are really paying for that and possibly a bit more to cover the aggravation factor of being in business and dealing with thousands of customers who "know" so much better how to run everyone else's business.

I'll go one step further, the merchant generally can't absorb those fees and pass them along to the customer. So you pay your own bonus.

[TiltonBB]

That seems to be the answer.

The Village Kitchen does a great job of providing good meals at fair prices. If we were to assume that there was a 10% profit in that business it would seem like a poor decision to give up a substantial percentage of that to credit card fees.

A $40 check which would have had a $4 profit changes to a $2.60 profit when someone uses a card where the owner pays a 4% fee. Enjoy your credit card perks but remember that those benefits come at a cost to the seller and that money has to come from somewhere. When you dine at restaurants that accept credit cards remember that you are paying extra for that.

For one, I appreciate the good food and fair prices at the Village Kitchen and would rather pay cash than see them go up on their prices to compensate for credit card fees.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

That seems to be the answer.

The Village Kitchen does a great job of providing good meals at fair prices. If we were to assume that there was a 10% profit in that business it would seem like a poor decision to give up a substantial percentage of that to credit card fees.

A $40 check which would have had a $4 profit changes to a $2.60 profit when someone uses a card where the owner pays a 4% fee. Enjoy your credit card perks but remember that those benefits come at a cost to the seller and that money has to come from somewhere. When you dine at restaurants that accept credit cards remember that you are paying extra for that.

For one, I appreciate the good food and fair prices at the Village Kitchen and would rather pay cash than see them go up on their prices to compensate for credit card fees.

I'm not saying this happens at the Village Kitchen. However, the maturity of the time small businesses refuse to take cash it is to hide some income from Uncle Sam. The avoidance of credit card fees is always the excuse always given but the real reason is so income can be under reported.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I'm not saying this happens at the Village Kitchen. However, the maturity of the time small businesses refuse to take cash it is to hide some income from Uncle Sam. The avoidance of credit card fees is always the excuse always given but the real reason is so income can be under reported.

And you base this on what actual factual information? Have you audited someone's tax returns? Please cite specifics and give examples.

[Lakeboater]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I'm not saying this happens at the Village Kitchen. However, the maturity of the time small businesses refuse to take cash it is to hide some income from Uncle Sam. The avoidance of credit card fees is always the excuse always given but the real reason is so income can be under reported.

Huh? Me thinks you should edit!

[jimkberry]

So I had to look up the "rewards cards cost more per transaction" thing for myself and was a bit surprised to see it is absolutely the case. What's more, corporate and government-issue cards cost even more.

Personally, I think not accepting CC's is kinda cool. What would be *really* cool, would stop any complaints from the younger crowd, and would be way cheaper, would be to accept Bitcoin.

Disclaimer: I'm 52, and not a Bitcoin fanboy, but I do work in the industry and get paid in BTC.

-jim

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I'm not saying this happens at the Village Kitchen. However, the maturity of the time small businesses refuse to take cash it is to hide some income from Uncle Sam. The avoidance of credit card fees is always the excuse always given but the real reason is so income can be under reported.

Your little disclaimer means nothing, that is a Damn insulting comment. What is your problem?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

Your little disclaimer means nothing, that is a Damn insulting comment. What is your problem?

Google "cash businesses and tax evasion" there will be a wealth of articles. I'm sorry but that is what I think when I see a cash only business. Again, some firms that take cash only pay ever last nickel of taxes. However, that isn't the norm. The below is a good overview.


There are two ways to underreport income. The first is to tell the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) that you made less money that you did during the tax year; and the second is to claim more deductions, exemptions and tax credits than you really deserve. Underreporting of income is the single largest contributor to the tax gap, making it America's favorite form of tax evasion. More than 83 percent of the $450 billion tax gap, or $376 billion, is attributed to underreporting of income [source: Internal Revenue Service].
Who is most likely to underreport income to the IRS? According to the non-compliance statistics from 2006, individual filers -- not corporations -- are the biggest tax evaders, underreporting income by $235 billion, equal to 52 percent of the total tax gap [source: Internal Revenue Service]. Interestingly, the biggest culprits among individual filers are folks who own their own businesses. Underreporting of business income accounts for $122 billion missing from individual income tax returns, while non-business income -- normal wages and salary from a job -- only add to $68 billion of the tax gap [source: Internal Revenue Service].
Wage and salary employees are more likely to pay their full income tax bills because their earnings are regularly reported to the IRS by a third party: their employers. Employers are required to withhold Social Security and Medicare contributions from each employee paycheck and hand that money over to the feds throughout the year. When an employee receives a W-2 in January, he or she knows that the IRS receives an identical copy. That's why only 1 percent of wage and salary income was underreported in 2006, while folks with no third-party reporting requirement — like self-employed workers or sole proprietors of small businesses -- had a 56 percent underreporting rate [source: Sahadi].
Jobs that pay primarily in cash are ripe targets for tax evasion. The IRS estimates that waiters and waitresses underreport their cash tips by an average of 84 percent [source: Nolo]. Cash doesn't leave a paper trail -- check stubs, deposit slips, invoices and the like -- that can be tracked by IRS investigators. If an employer pays a worker "under the table" in cash, it means that the employer doesn't have to pay unemployment tax or payroll taxes for that employee, and the worker can easily get away with not paying income tax on those earnings.

[Charlie T]

Merry Christmas

[ApS]

In Europe, they're accustomed to government taxation and waste, so they use their cellphones for minor purchases:

"...The machine will then offer you a menu. You'll choose, say, a Diet Pepsi for 75 cents and enter a PIN (or the machine will recognize your telephone automatically), and out will tumble your soft drink..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/02/te...pagewanted=all

Originally Posted by Lakeboater

Pretty sure that wait staff and bartenders prefer to be tipped in cash not on a credit card. We always tip good service with cash even if we are paying for our meal with a cc.

I do the same. Let the wait staff decide what to do with their money. Some VK staff have driven daily from distances you wouldn't believe.

A happy crew (you'll notice) makes the dining experience much more enjoyable.

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I'm not saying this happens at the Village Kitchen. However, the majority of the time small businesses refuse to take cash it is to hide some income from Uncle Sam. The avoidance of credit card fees is always the excuse always given but the real reason is so income can be under reported.

In these days of Trillion-dollar budgets, lessening the grip Uncle Sam has on the working poor is an act of patriotism.

.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by ApS

In Europe, they're accustomed to government taxation and waste, so they use their cellphones for minor purchases:




I do the same. Let the wait staff decide what to do with their money. Some VK staff have driven daily from distances you wouldn't believe.

A happy crew (you'll notice) makes the dining experience much more enjoyable.


In these days of Trillion-dollar budgets, lessening the grip Uncle Sam has on the working poor is an act of patriotism.

.

Your comment makes no sense. So if I have a long commute paying my taxes are optional? I simply don't understand why folks dealing in the cash based economy shouldn't pay taxes?

[wifi]

I think we need an "Argument forum" where you can just bash and nit pick to your hearts delight, and threads, such as this has become, can get moved there.

Mi gaud...

More often than not, these days, I hit "new posts" and see people asking things that are common sense, and others with obvious answers. I hope this isn't where the nanny world is headed, develop some self reliance, you learn things better this way.

/rant off

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by wifi

I think we need an "Argument forum" where you can just bash and nit pick to your hearts delight, and threads, such as this has become, can get moved there.

I disagree, this is a stupid idea.

[Winnisquamer]

I think a lot of the disagreements I've seen on this forum since I joined was not neccessarily an I disagree with you personally thing but more of a generational thing in what people are use to. For this thread in particular besides for one of two bold assumptions of tax evasion by all cash businesses the older generations are baffled by using a credit card for a 10 dollar lunch sub purchase when the younger generation is saying why carry cash 24/7 when there's no need too.

That will never change in my opinion. People will always have outlandish opinions and if you don't want them voiced than the Internet in general is not for you.

I don't think we need an argument forum at all I think we need to realize not everyone is going to agree all the time. I also think one of the biggest problems on forums is you can't detect tone or sarcasm via the internet. So I'm sure some posts come off a little more offensive than they were intended to be.

[VitaBene]

There is a disagreements forum, called issues. Some forums refer to it as the burn barrel.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I disagree, this is a stupid idea.

Tell us what you really think.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by dpg

Tell us what you really think.

I already did. Can't you comprehend basic English? I'll bet you vote Democrat.

[Acrossamerica]

And the dead horses keep piling up. May be time to call in animal abuse.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

And the dead horses keep piling up. May be time to call in animal abuse.

Or make mystery meatloaf.

[ITD]

Ok, everyone together now, "Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya"

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

I wonder if you have any idea where that money "you make" comes from? Contrary to what a lot of young people think, it does not just happen. That 1-5% pay back is taken out of the merchants pocket in the form of CC fees.

Use a Debit card and they are charged one fee, use a straight CC card and it is a different amount, use the pay back cards and the fees jump up to cover the cost of the paybacks. And in addition to the fees there is a processing machine that must be bought and updated every few years and any merchant that has not invested in the new "Dip" card machines is now liable for any fraud on that card not the CC company or the bank.

So as you pat your self on the back for "earning" 1-5% on your purchases you are really paying for that and possibly a bit more to cover the aggravation factor of being in business and dealing with thousands of customers who "know" so much better how to run everyone else's business.

Using a debit card in today's world isn't very smart, or safe. Why would you use something directly linked to your account where cash is immediately gone. If that's stolen now you have the hassle of making sure it is returned...with a credit card you have a lot more protection.

I understand the concept that each method has different fees, it's up to the business to accept that as part of doing business. Not me, not you, the business. If I use my card and get the incentives then perhaps the cost of goods will reflect that. But that's life, and what you chose to do is up to you.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

So as you pat your self on the back for "earning" 1-5% on your purchases you are really paying for that and possibly a bit more to cover the aggravation factor of being in business and dealing with thousands of customers who "know" so much better how to run everyone else's business.

Technically, no.

Not everyone has a "points" card, some have regular cards, some people pay with cash. For the most part, the business charges the same amount to every customer (yes, we've all seen the RARE cases of the small business that has a 2% cash discount).

So in reality the people who are NOT using points cards, or are paying with cash are co-funding the rewards received by the points-card holders. Everyone is paying the same price, and the business has to set their prices to cover a worst-case payment scenario (higher-fee points card user).

For me personally, I prefer to put everything on the credit card, even the $2.00 transactions. It's mostly convenience and spending tracking. For something like eating out (especially a breakfast or lunch) it's a spontaneous decision for the wife and I. We'll be out doing other things, decide to get something to eat, and find a local spot. I don't like going in and having to worry about if I have enough cash on hand to cover the bill+tip, or having a meal eat up a decent amount of my pocket cash and then having to go to the bank at some point. The bigger benefit of using a card is spending tracking. I can put $200 in my pocket and it will seemingly "evaporate" if I'm paying for things in cash. $30 for lunch, $80 at the grocery store, $10 at Starbucks, and so on. A week later I'm out of money and struggling to remember what I spent it on. Put all that stuff on the card and it's easy to look back at the end of the month and have an overview of what our expenses were. The points stuff is a nice side-benefit, but I'd use credit cards over cash even without the rewards. However, since I do have a rewards card I should say "thank you" to all the cash-payers subsidizing it for me

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Technically, no.

Not everyone has a "points" card, some have regular cards, some people pay with cash. For the most part, the business charges the same amount to every customer (yes, we've all seen the RARE cases of the small business that has a 2% cash discount).

So in reality the people who are NOT using points cards, or are paying with cash are co-funding the rewards received by the points-card holders. Everyone is paying the same price, and the business has to set their prices to cover a worst-case payment scenario (higher-fee points card user).

For me personally, I prefer to put everything on the credit card, even the $2.00 transactions. It's mostly convenience and spending tracking. For something like eating out (especially a breakfast or lunch) it's a spontaneous decision for the wife and I. We'll be out doing other things, decide to get something to eat, and find a local spot. I don't like going in and having to worry about if I have enough cash on hand to cover the bill+tip, or having a meal eat up a decent amount of my pocket cash and then having to go to the bank at some point. The bigger benefit of using a card is spending tracking. I can put $200 in my pocket and it will seemingly "evaporate" if I'm paying for things in cash. $30 for lunch, $80 at the grocery store, $10 at Starbucks, and so on. A week later I'm out of money and struggling to remember what I spent it on. Put all that stuff on the card and it's easy to look back at the end of the month and have an overview of what our expenses were. The points stuff is a nice side-benefit, but I'd use credit cards over cash even without the rewards. However, since I do have a rewards card I should say "thank you" to all the cash-payers subsidizing it for me

$10 at Starbucks? I think I see the problem! I make Maxwell House at home! Excellent!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

$10 at Starbucks? I think I see the problem! I make Maxwell House at home! Excellent!

I didn't say there was a problem, just that I like being able to track and manage my expenses (which is part of the reason why I can spend $10 at Starbucks without having to worry about it).

At Starbucks I'm usually getting some some of a latte or similar drink. If I want brewed coffee I'll usually try to find a Starbucks with a Clover machine, or a *good* local coffee shop.

If I'm making coffee at home, it won't be Maxwell house, it'll be fresh beans and a pour-over.