Unsafe Ice!

Rose · 02-01-2006, 09:19 PM

May I just remind everyone that what you hear/read on the tv/internet may not necessarily be accurate. Too many are quick to pass the story before the FACTS are in. You may want to wait before you pass judgement lest you end up like Oprah dedicating an entire hour retracting what you said.

JPC · 02-01-2006, 09:47 PM

Personnaly I don't need to wait for the facts from the media.

FACT #1: I don't care if he was skimming or not, the ice is not safe and this man should be awarded the DARWIN trophy.

FACT #2: This man probably can't read the paper anyways and obviously doesn't listen to televison news reports or he would have known about all the recent events and stayed off the ice.

Some people never get it!

Skip · 02-01-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

May I just remind everyone that what you hear/read on the tv/internet may not necessarily be accurate. Too many are quick to pass the story before the FACTS are in. You may want to wait before you pass judgement lest you end up like Oprah dedicating an entire hour retracting what you said.

Hello Rose....

You make an excellent point here.

But (and I hate to use but) in these cases I think the New Hampshire Fish & Game along with local fire & police officials are at their wits end over these skimming/thin ice issues. Skimming is illegal. Skimming, unless done in a controlled environment (like the sled show in Fremont) is stupid. And rescue calls initiated by these acts needlessly risk the lives of the rescuers, while tying up valuable assets that are not available for other emergency calls.

I know State & Local officials have done everything in their power to warn people about this year's ice conditions and have tried to discourage skimming by imposing high fines. They have used the media relentlessly to get the word out. I remember mentioning to my wife a few weeks ago that if I heard one more thin ice warning, either from Channel 9 or from the Foster's/Citizen, I was going to pull my hair out.

And Fish & Game has actually done an excellent job this year of getting factual accident reports out to the media almost immediately to warn people of the extreme dangers out there.

And in the span of four days we have three separate skimming issues on one Lake alone!

I know there was concern about the facts presented in Sunday's death as maybe being inaccurate. However, as the story has developed it only got worse when it was learned that the victim had previously put a snowmobile to the bottom of a lake.

Its just amazing to me the stupidity that some dispaly for a few cheap thrills....actions that directly or indirectly endanger or place unneccesary financial and emotional burdens on the rest of society.

Yes, I agree that we sghould be careful of initial media reports. However, it appears that in the cases we are talking about here, the media and Fish & Game have been very accurate in getting their story and subsequent warnings out to the general public.

Apparently to some, no amount of warning can overcome a total lack of common sense!

Sorry for the long diatribe, but this stuff is just plain crazy!

Skip

Resident 2B · 02-01-2006, 10:38 PM

I totally agree with Pepper!

This afternoon I also had the scanner on and heard the report of a skimmer in the water near Burger King. Thank God he is OK.

Ten minutes later, I look out the window and I see a yellow sled coming down Meredith Bay at 60 miles per hour and it skims right down the Weirs Channel. From the deck all I could hear was the noise from the sled fading into the distance. The Weirs Channel has about a half mile of open water today.

Twenty minutes later, I hear the same engine sound returning and I look out and sure enough the same sled is transitioning off the water and back onto the ice near were the Mount docks at the Weirs.

To the sled driver:

This is completely reckless behavior!

Life does not have the reset button that they program into video games. Please think a bit more before doing crazy things like this again. You risk your life and the life of all potential rescuers!

I hope the ice thickens or melts. The lake is in a very dangerous state right now and the actions of some make it even worse.

R2B

Pepper · 02-01-2006, 11:57 PM

An interesting side note. Several hours after the ambulance left Burger King with a wet snowmobiler onboard, I heard the dispatcher for Laconia P.D. instruct an officer to go to the E.R. to transport an individual to the County Jail.

Now I can only hope that individual is the same idiot who placed himself and others in danger, and contaminated our lake this afternoon.

Pepper · 02-02-2006, 12:02 AM

Resident2B - when we used to stay open in the winter months, Waldo and I often heard the scream of snowmobiles as they flew along the channel. That sound makes your hair stand on end, and your stomach tighten, as you wait to hear it either continue on, or simply stop. Many conversations with the local PD, State Police, Fish and Game, and Fire Department all revealed the same frustration as you and I and others feel right now. I do not envy your position so close to the channel right now! I prefer being far enough away that I can't hear-and-fear.

Paugus Bay Resident · 02-02-2006, 12:15 AM

Here's the link http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/6660067/detail.html

In the course of my business, I drive around the lake a lot. It never ceases to amaze me how many Darwin Award candidates are out there. It doesn't really bother me that they seem to have little regard for their own lives, but I'm sure they take for granted that someone will come to their rescue. We have a lot of dedicated people around here that will, without hesitation, risk their lives to do just that.

I know that accidents do happen, but accidents seem to be the exception rather than the rule lately.

Rattlesnake Gal · 02-02-2006, 10:21 AM

This may be a stupid question, but is there a way to equip sleds with an auto open raft of some kind like the CO2 life vests? They could save a life and the lake from pollutants.
I wonder if this new law for anti skimming having any effect?

Woodsy · 02-02-2006, 11:22 AM

There are certain times when on a snowmobile you have to "Skim" across a few feet, say less than 50' of open water. I define open water as anything other than ice solid enough to support you. The issue lies with the thrillseekers skimming over hundreds of feet of open water. The people yesterday were attempting to skim the Weirs Channel. At this time, the open water extends from 200' from the channel entrance to well past the docks at the 4 Seasons (approximately 1/2 way betweeen the NASWA & Christmas Island) approximately 1 mile.

I don't think the skimming law has any real effect because most snowmobiliers understand the danger and just don't do it. Those thrillseekers that are willing to "Skim" long distances, probably aren't going to care about the law, the same way "base jumpers" and others don't.

There really isn't all that much environmental damage to the lake. The oil & gas are contained, and although some may escape its very little. A small 2 stroke outboard motor puts more pollutants into the lake during a day of fishing.

Woodsy

Paugus Bay Resident · 02-02-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

There are certain times when on a snowmobile you have to "Skim" across a few feet, say less than 50' of open water.

Woodsy, I usually agree with you, but I've been sledding for a lot of years and except for washout on trails, have never had to skim. My feeling is that if you have to, you shouldn't be there.

Island Lover · 02-02-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

There are certain times when on a snowmobile you have to "Skim" across a few feet, say less than 50' of open water. I define open water as anything other than ice solid enough to support you. The issue lies with the thrillseekers skimming over hundreds of feet of open water. The people yesterday were attempting to skim the Weirs Channel. At this time, the open water extends from 200' from the channel entrance to well past the docks at the 4 Seasons (approximately 1/2 way betweeen the NASWA & Christmas Island) approximately 1 mile.

I don't think the skimming law has any real effect because most snowmobiliers understand the danger and just don't do it. Those thrillseekers that are willing to "Skim" long distances, probably aren't going to care about the law, the same way "base jumpers" and others don't.

There really isn't all that much environmental damage to the lake. The oil & gas are contained, and although some may escape its very little. A small 2 stroke outboard motor puts more pollutants into the lake during a day of fishing.

Woodsy

Why would you "have to" skim 50' of open water?

Unless you are taking somebody to the ER I don't see the need. It's against the law. This must be the "need for thrills" or "need for speed" thinking we get from some high performance vehicle owners.

The real tragedy would be if somebody dies trying to save a skimmer.

Woodsy · 02-02-2006, 12:22 PM

Island Lover & PBR...

I don't advocate "skimming". I guess in my post it comes across that way. There have been times to get on or off the ice on Lake Winnipesaukee I have had to cross a few feet of open water. For example, there used to be access to the lake for snowmobiles at the Akwa marina. That area there would get pretty thin from the bubblers and all of the snowmachines that use it. I have also had to cross some small streams in ME. I do not consider it a thrill at all. It is certainly not a "speed thing" I do not go out and actively look to cross open water.

Woodsy

Weirs guy · 02-02-2006, 02:12 PM

Well, I've been waiting all winter for someone to tell me they had seen or heard someone skimming at the Weirs. I've been waiting all winter and was pretty impressed that I hadn't seen anyone doing it yet, looks like they were waiting for the ice to get thinner

GTO · 02-02-2006, 02:40 PM

I know I would be pretty upset if I had an emergency at my house and rescue took longer than usual because they were all at the Weirs Channel trying to pluck some nimrod out of the water. It would be interesting to hear from anyone that works fire and rescue, how they feel about all this.

Fishback McMitchell · 02-02-2006, 03:07 PM

...Not to mention Town/State taxes that go towards these rescues. I'm from Manchester and visit on the weekends. I know that I'd be upset if my house was burning and there was a slow response. They had someone from Meredith (I beleive) Fire Dept. He said bascially what we're saying, availabilty issues.

I dont live around there. I'm down in Manchester. It must be difficult for locals to deal with the influx of nitwits. I'm a weekend warrior and I have trouble seeing a lot of stupid behavior. I'm not a saint by any stretch, but dumb is dumb!!

Cobalt · 02-03-2006, 05:56 PM

I think Woodsy is making the point that does not encourage skimming, but there are times when riding on lakes you can quickly come up on open water, and it is important to know that you can cross open water for short distances if necessary. Depending on the situation, it can be safer to open up the machine and cross the water rather than attempting to stop or turn the snowmobile.

If you spend any time riding on lakes you know conditions change rapidly and you need to be prepared for the unexpected.

dpg · 02-06-2006, 12:41 PM

Give skimmers (and base jumpers) mandatory one year prison sentences and they will start caring about the law!!!

Fishback McMitchell · 02-06-2006, 01:13 PM

Did anyone see the bobhouse that was "skimming" right off the boat launch in Meredith Bay? It's made of, what looks to be, old billboards. It's like 8x10 and has a chimney. It was 50' from ours. We were out there Saturday morning early, and we decided to move our house out to the right or Church Landing by the marina. We returned to shore later that day and saw it attempting to skim. Half of it was submerged with a growing ring of water surrounding it! Bad news for those guys. It looked like it was pretty heavy!
Our neighbors at "The Lodge" decided to move theirs off.

Ice conditions declined a bit over last week. Out towards the middle of the bay it is thicker than around shore. There is 3 or so inches of half-frozen snow and slush. Under that garbage, there ranges from 4-7 inches of nice stuff. There are still some sketchy parts where it tests your nerve. But all in all its ok for light traffic.

As far as the fishing goes....It's pretty good. We saw one beautiful Rainbow caught by Chris from St. Anselm College, across from the town docks. There was a fatty Laker caught...6 lbs. And Saturday we hooked into 3 hefty Salmon in the morning and 2 more in the PM bite. Three of the 5 were caught by Kern who made the venture up from Manch. Even though we can't do anything with the salmon....I still love seeing those!! Matty Pipes caught a monster of a pickerel just left of the launch over in Rainbow country. The thing had probably 6 smelt in it's belly. Hint...hint.... I broke in my Jack Trap with 1 pesky Perch caught in almost 40' by the docks. Man I thought it was a Laker!! Doh!!!

In my opinion...after looking at the forecast and the current ice conditions...Get dem traps ready boys and girls, cuz there's a derby coming!!

That's the report for this weekend. Fishback signing off.

02-01-2006, 10:38 PM	#4
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,358 Thanks: 996 Thanked 314 Times in 164 Posts	Skimming Madness I totally agree with Pepper! This afternoon I also had the scanner on and heard the report of a skimmer in the water near Burger King. Thank God he is OK. Ten minutes later, I look out the window and I see a yellow sled coming down Meredith Bay at 60 miles per hour and it skims right down the Weirs Channel. From the deck all I could hear was the noise from the sled fading into the distance. The Weirs Channel has about a half mile of open water today. Twenty minutes later, I hear the same engine sound returning and I look out and sure enough the same sled is transitioning off the water and back onto the ice near were the Mount docks at the Weirs. To the sled driver: This is completely reckless behavior! Life does not have the reset button that they program into video games. Please think a bit more before doing crazy things like this again. You risk your life and the life of all potential rescuers! I hope the ice thickens or melts. The lake is in a very dangerous state right now and the actions of some make it even worse. R2B

02-01-2006, 11:57 PM	#5
Pepper Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Laconia, NH Posts: 1,284 Thanks: 409 Thanked 155 Times in 40 Posts	An interesting side note. Several hours after the ambulance left Burger King with a wet snowmobiler onboard, I heard the dispatcher for Laconia P.D. instruct an officer to go to the E.R. to transport an individual to the County Jail. Now I can only hope that individual is the same idiot who placed himself and others in danger, and contaminated our lake this afternoon. __________________ Never waste time lamenting what was. Simply celebrate what is!

02-02-2006, 12:02 AM	#6
Pepper Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Laconia, NH Posts: 1,284 Thanks: 409 Thanked 155 Times in 40 Posts	Resident2B - when we used to stay open in the winter months, Waldo and I often heard the scream of snowmobiles as they flew along the channel. That sound makes your hair stand on end, and your stomach tighten, as you wait to hear it either continue on, or simply stop. Many conversations with the local PD, State Police, Fish and Game, and Fire Department all revealed the same frustration as you and I and others feel right now. I do not envy your position so close to the channel right now! I prefer being far enough away that I can't hear-and-fear. __________________ Never waste time lamenting what was. Simply celebrate what is!

02-02-2006, 02:12 PM	#13
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Well, I've been waiting all winter for someone to tell me they had seen or heard someone skimming at the Weirs. I've been waiting all winter and was pretty impressed that I hadn't seen anyone doing it yet, looks like they were waiting for the ice to get thinner __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

02-02-2006, 02:40 PM	#14
GTO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,091 Thanks: 338 Thanked 354 Times in 162 Posts	stupid is...... I know I would be pretty upset if I had an emergency at my house and rescue took longer than usual because they were all at the Weirs Channel trying to pluck some nimrod out of the water. It would be interesting to hear from anyone that works fire and rescue, how they feel about all this. __________________ GTO

02-01-2006, 09:19 PM	#1
Rose Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 498 Thanks: 62 Thanked 71 Times in 32 Posts	An Oprah moment May I just remind everyone that what you hear/read on the tv/internet may not necessarily be accurate. Too many are quick to pass the story before the FACTS are in. You may want to wait before you pass judgement lest you end up like Oprah dedicating an entire hour retracting what you said.

02-01-2006, 09:47 PM	#2
JPC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Milford, NH Posts: 163 Thanks: 45 Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts	Darwin Event Personnaly I don't need to wait for the facts from the media. FACT #1: I don't care if he was skimming or not, the ice is not safe and this man should be awarded the DARWIN trophy. FACT #2: This man probably can't read the paper anyways and obviously doesn't listen to televison news reports or he would have known about all the recent events and stayed off the ice. Some people never get it!

02-02-2006, 12:15 AM	#7
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 93 Times in 51 Posts	Here's the link http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/6660067/detail.html In the course of my business, I drive around the lake a lot. It never ceases to amaze me how many Darwin Award candidates are out there. It doesn't really bother me that they seem to have little regard for their own lives, but I'm sure they take for granted that someone will come to their rescue. We have a lot of dedicated people around here that will, without hesitation, risk their lives to do just that. I know that accidents do happen, but accidents seem to be the exception rather than the rule lately.

02-02-2006, 10:21 AM	#8
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,252 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,451 Thanked 1,349 Times in 475 Posts	This may be a stupid question, but is there a way to equip sleds with an auto open raft of some kind like the CO2 life vests? They could save a life and the lake from pollutants. I wonder if this new law for anti skimming having any effect?

02-02-2006, 11:22 AM	#9
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,967 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	There are certain times when on a snowmobile you have to "Skim" across a few feet, say less than 50' of open water. I define open water as anything other than ice solid enough to support you. The issue lies with the thrillseekers skimming over hundreds of feet of open water. The people yesterday were attempting to skim the Weirs Channel. At this time, the open water extends from 200' from the channel entrance to well past the docks at the 4 Seasons (approximately 1/2 way betweeen the NASWA & Christmas Island) approximately 1 mile. I don't think the skimming law has any real effect because most snowmobiliers understand the danger and just don't do it. Those thrillseekers that are willing to "Skim" long distances, probably aren't going to care about the law, the same way "base jumpers" and others don't. There really isn't all that much environmental damage to the lake. The oil & gas are contained, and although some may escape its very little. A small 2 stroke outboard motor puts more pollutants into the lake during a day of fishing. Woodsy

02-02-2006, 12:22 PM	#12
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,967 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Island Lover & PBR... I don't advocate "skimming". I guess in my post it comes across that way. There have been times to get on or off the ice on Lake Winnipesaukee I have had to cross a few feet of open water. For example, there used to be access to the lake for snowmobiles at the Akwa marina. That area there would get pretty thin from the bubblers and all of the snowmachines that use it. I have also had to cross some small streams in ME. I do not consider it a thrill at all. It is certainly not a "speed thing" I do not go out and actively look to cross open water. Woodsy

02-02-2006, 03:07 PM	#15
Fishback McMitchell Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Laker City, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Emergency ...Not to mention Town/State taxes that go towards these rescues. I'm from Manchester and visit on the weekends. I know that I'd be upset if my house was burning and there was a slow response. They had someone from Meredith (I beleive) Fire Dept. He said bascially what we're saying, availabilty issues. I dont live around there. I'm down in Manchester. It must be difficult for locals to deal with the influx of nitwits. I'm a weekend warrior and I have trouble seeing a lot of stupid behavior. I'm not a saint by any stretch, but dumb is dumb!!

02-03-2006, 05:56 PM	#16
Cobalt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 130 Thanks: 70 Thanked 33 Times in 25 Posts	Unintentional Skimming I think Woodsy is making the point that does not encourage skimming, but there are times when riding on lakes you can quickly come up on open water, and it is important to know that you can cross open water for short distances if necessary. Depending on the situation, it can be safer to open up the machine and cross the water rather than attempting to stop or turn the snowmobile. If you spend any time riding on lakes you know conditions change rapidly and you need to be prepared for the unexpected.

02-06-2006, 12:41 PM	#17
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,597 Thanks: 153 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	Give skimmers (and base jumpers) mandatory one year prison sentences and they will start caring about the law!!!

02-06-2006, 01:13 PM	#18
Fishback McMitchell Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Laker City, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Skimming Bobhouse!!! Did anyone see the bobhouse that was "skimming" right off the boat launch in Meredith Bay? It's made of, what looks to be, old billboards. It's like 8x10 and has a chimney. It was 50' from ours. We were out there Saturday morning early, and we decided to move our house out to the right or Church Landing by the marina. We returned to shore later that day and saw it attempting to skim. Half of it was submerged with a growing ring of water surrounding it! Bad news for those guys. It looked like it was pretty heavy! Our neighbors at "The Lodge" decided to move theirs off. Ice conditions declined a bit over last week. Out towards the middle of the bay it is thicker than around shore. There is 3 or so inches of half-frozen snow and slush. Under that garbage, there ranges from 4-7 inches of nice stuff. There are still some sketchy parts where it tests your nerve. But all in all its ok for light traffic. As far as the fishing goes....It's pretty good. We saw one beautiful Rainbow caught by Chris from St. Anselm College, across from the town docks. There was a fatty Laker caught...6 lbs. And Saturday we hooked into 3 hefty Salmon in the morning and 2 more in the PM bite. Three of the 5 were caught by Kern who made the venture up from Manch. Even though we can't do anything with the salmon....I still love seeing those!! Matty Pipes caught a monster of a pickerel just left of the launch over in Rainbow country. The thing had probably 6 smelt in it's belly. Hint...hint.... I broke in my Jack Trap with 1 pesky Perch caught in almost 40' by the docks. Man I thought it was a Laker!! Doh!!! In my opinion...after looking at the forecast and the current ice conditions...Get dem traps ready boys and girls, cuz there's a derby coming!! That's the report for this weekend. Fishback signing off.