Navigation question

[johnmcrae]

Coming around south end of Bear I have seen people split the red bouys as they make the turn north. So taking the inside on the red as they make the corner. Looks like there is enough clearance and maybe maintain 150....just doesn't feel right. Comments ?


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[michael yopp]

I grew up on the lake and know it well, All markers can be changed by the direction you are going. The markers on Bear means there are rock's in the middle of the black and red and it is fine to go between the red and the Island.

[wtibert]

The way I see it, you can take the inside route (west side- between marker and Bear) on the eastern red marker (near the black) or go east of the black marker next to it (but not between). The western red marker should be passed on the west side (not between marker Bear) regardless.

The only question is speed depending on how close those markers are to Bear and if you maintain 150' from the island.

My two cents...

[Barney Bear]

When we are returning to East Bear Island from the west (Weirs), we pass south of the red top spar at the southwest end of Bear Island, and then head north, passing on the west side of the southeast red top spar buoy. We stay well south of the end of the island to see if a boat is headed south through this relatively narrow channel. If a boat is coming, we proceed east and go south of the nearby black top spar, then head north. This channel is too narrow to allow boats to pass at plane, but wide enough to stay on plane if one stays fairly close to the red top spar.

[johnmcrae]

Thanks for the replies. That is exactly the answers I was looking to affirm.


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[Descant]

What's the bottom like between the red and black? I've seen boats go between them, and other than being light blue, I don't see rocks ar other specific hazards. What's the actual water depth?

[Rich]

when people discuss areas on the lake, I love to go find a chart and try to learn what is being discussed.

In this case I took a look:
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=yrgiGpiurL

It seems there is a note on the chart that says to NOT to go between the two markers (or is it trying to say to not get near the buoys)?:

Obstruction

Information: Keep cleat of buoys surrounded by dashed line

Other than the typo ("cleat" instead of "clear"), the area doesn't look foreboding in the chart, and the dashed line is not very clear online. I don't know if it's easier to see on a chart plotter. You can also see it on the screen grab above in the first post.

I sent a note to Navionics, so perhaps they will fix the typo. They have been very responsive in the past to input to their charts.

[ursa minor]

This is one of the classics, every time I go through here I have the same thought you did, this just doesn't feel right... This is why unless in my own area of the lake where I know it blindfolded I always have a chart out for reference as knowing the "rules" won't always save you.

My personal favorite example of this is when proceeding from Nine Acre / Pistol Island area heading NNE towards Spectacle Island, the red / black bouys swap sides just as you past Spectacle. Yes, I know that's because your course just changed to "East" but I haven't really turned the wheel yet...

[TheRoBoat]

I've spent my entire life watching people go through those two buoys. Ditto the two a little further north straight off Camp Lawrence. If you ever want confirmation people do not pay attention while boating - go here and spend 20 minutes on a Saturday.

There is not much there other than 'islands that didn't quite make it'. In early season high water - no issues. Even in the fall almost all boats would be fine.

I am assuming both of these two sets of buoys are both there - off Lawrence and at South Bear - because the Sophie C uses this route extensively. So does the Camp Lawrence Bear II

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TheRoBoat

Ditto the two a little further north straight off Camp Lawrence. If you ever want confirmation people do not pay attention while boating - go here and spend 20 minutes on a Saturday

I agree with you on the two buoys directly in front of Camp Lawrence. Many people do not realize that you are not supposed to go between them and I highly doubt you would get away with it now as the water is low. There are some big arse rocks down there!!!

Dan

[znh]

Originally Posted by johnmcrae

Coming around south end of Bear I have seen people split the red bouys as they make the turn north. So taking the inside on the red as they make the corner. Looks like there is enough clearance and maybe maintain 150....just doesn't feel right. Comments ?Attachment 12201


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Inside of both of them? No. Coming South on the East side, split buoy and island. Turning back north, should go west of the other red buoy...

[Dave M]

From another post by me.

There are a number of markers in the middle between Bear Is. and Jolly Is. that you have to pay attention to especially the one at the point of Bear Is. That buoy you need to go to the inside of the buoy. If going that way you need to make a wide sweep into the lane. If you cut the corner you may have some unexpected persons in your boat. I've had persons come close to hitting me due to cutting the corner. I avoid that area by going straight towards Sandy Is. from Weirs/Meredith. Your better off going between black markers and Jolly Is.

Dave M

[ITD]

Isn't it you go between the solid red and solid black buoys? Whereas the red OVER white and black OVER white you pass to the appropriate side per red - south or west and black north or east.

[znh]

Originally Posted by ITD

Isn't it you go between the solid red and solid black buoys? Whereas the red OVER white and black OVER white you pass to the appropriate side per red - south or west and black north or east.

Yes...but IMO on this lake the buoys are so hard to distinguish from each other sometimes. Especially the black buoys, I have excellent vision and still have trouble spotting them sometimes...

[ITD]

Originally Posted by znh

Yes...but IMO on this lake the buoys are so hard to distinguish from each other sometimes. Especially the black buoys, I have excellent vision and still have trouble spotting them sometimes...

Especially as the buoys age they sit lower in the water, covering the white.

[Bizer]

From my notes in the area:

The RW (red-and-white) and the BW (black-and-white) just east of the southern tip of Bear Island mark an area that is about six feet deep.

The RW and BW between Camp Lawrence and Jolly Island mark an area that has a fout-foot rock between them.

Some buoys on Winnipesaukee mark rocks less than one foot below the surface. Some buoys are there for the Mount Washington's 9-foot draft. If you don't know what's behind the buoy: Discretion is the better part of valor. When in doubt, stay in the WHITE areas on Bizer's chart. If it's white, it's more than six feet deep.

[marcucci]

I've cut inside that red spar for years. I believe it's outside 150 ft and I go right along side of it as I pass. The exception is when I see another boat coming around the curve. I don't want to force them too close to shore.

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[Phantom]

Although I know it well now ..... what is more unsettling is when approaching those same markers at the Southeast tip of Bear you are (theoretically) faced with the decision of splitting between two Black Tops -- as FL #30 is a Black Top.

You all can save the answers as to why ... I know now after 25 years -- but I STILL use that area as a check when I take novices out driving to see if they are really paying attention




.

[RyanDe]

Just looking around this area and I noticed this, which is confusing to me. If I'm Navin' correctly it appears you have to stay to the left of the west red buoy and between the black/white and red buoy on the east. So that means you shouldn't go right up the middle of the lake? I can see people getting confused by this.

[Rich]

Typically you follow the suggested route line (see it on the left side).

Also watch for the dashed line that surrounds the markers in the middle, these mean not to pass between these buoys/markers. Click on that dashed line and it should say something similar to 'stay clear of the buoys surrounded by the dashed line'.

Here is the area you're asking about:
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=wyhiGp_urL

If you wanted to go up the east side of this area, you could pass to the west of the red top and the east of the black top that is to the north west corner of Jolly Island, but you can see the suggested route on the west side of this area. It looks like the chart is suggesting not to go up the middle.

[Phantom]

RyanDe --This is why a Bizer Chart is so handy -- it will advise you of safe passage

When boating in this area just be mindful that the Rocks are BETWEEN the redtop/blacktop pairs (there are two sets .... one a lower edge of Bear near FL30 the other off Jolly.... being mindful of the redtop off Jolly & Birch .. all other water is safe boating

[Rich]

Yes, Bizer has clear charts that easily show good routes and hazard areas!

[Barney Bear]

Just noticed in the portion of the Bizer chart included in Item #21 above, that the red over white spar buoys have a white stripe, but the black over white spar buoys do not have a white stripe. Not shown in this chart portion, solid red spars are shown solid red and black spars are shown solid black.

[Rich]

If I remember, all of his charts are like this, but I could be wrong as I don't have one in front of me.

I always wondered myself why the black tops didn't have the white stripe on the Bizer charts like the red tops do to help differentiate the black top from the solid black markers.

[DPatnaude]

Originally Posted by Rich

If I remember, all of his charts are like this, but I could be wrong as I don't have one in front of me.

I always wondered myself why the black tops didn't have the white stripe on the chart like the red tops do.

The red spars do have a white/red stripe below the red top. Another way to tell them apart for everyone that complains the red and black are hard to differentiate.

See the graphical image of the spars here: https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire...101_700056575/

[Rich]

I was referring to the Bizer chart... not the actual spar buoys that float in the water.

Yes, I've seen the stripe below the red top markers. This helps to differentiate between red top and black top markers when at a slight distance if the marker isn't partially submerged.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was referring to the Bizer chart... not the actual spar buoys that float in the water.

Yes, I've seen the stripe below the red top markers. This helps to differentiate between red top and black top markers when at a slight distance if the marker isn't partially submerged.

That stripe is reflective too. Makes it really easy to differentiate them at night.

[Bizer]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

Just noticed in the portion of the Bizer chart included in Item #21 above, that the red over white spar buoys have a white stripe, but the black over white spar buoys do not have a white stripe. Not shown in this chart portion, solid red spars are shown solid red and black spars are shown solid black.

The purpose of the white stripe in the red buoys is for reading the chart at night. In low-light conditions, it may be hard to tell red from black on Bizer's chart. It has no bearing on the buoy itself.

[Phantom]

That white stripe below on an actual spar is also "Reflective tape" thus if you hit it with docking lights or spotlight at night you can differentiate a black top from Red top ---

Did ya all know THAT little tid bit ?


WOOOPS -- just saw Rich beat me ..... Dayum !

.

[ursa minor]

I know they're not practical from a cost standpoint as compared to the current PVC spars but am I the only one that misses the old school wooden spars? I think they floated higher and were easier to see. A lot of the PVC ones float so low it almost covers the white below the color.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

I know they're not practical from a cost standpoint as compared to the current PVC spars but am I the only one that misses the old school wooden spars? I think they floated higher and were easier to see. A lot of the PVC ones float so low it almost covers the white below the color.

I am not 100% sure but I think part of the reason some are so low in the water is because they are leaking and filling with water.


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[Barney Bear]

Many of the old wood spar buoys had a reflective band on them - - white on the black top spars and red on the red top spars. 🐻

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bizer

The purpose of the white stripe in the red buoys is for reading the chart at night. In low-light conditions, it may be hard to tell red from black on Bizer's chart. It has no bearing on the buoy itself.

Oh, NOW this makes sense to me!

Maybe a future version of the chart should have a note in the legend to point this useful feature out to make it more obvious?

Did anyone else realize the purpose of this white stripe, or am I the only one that learned something new today?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

I know they're not practical from a cost standpoint as compared to the current PVC spars but am I the only one that misses the old school wooden spars? I think they floated higher and were easier to see. A lot of the PVC ones float so low it almost covers the white below the color.

A wood spar floated up several years ago. I'll check it for that reflective band, and post a photo.

I suspect that maintenance was much higher with the wood spars, but they did float much higher, and were much easier to see.

In fact, you'd better see it! Wood spars were also prone to breaking-off when struck!

.