It Passed!!!

[playinghooky]

Just heard on the news - It Passed!!!

[Rayhunt]

What a travesty

[Steve]

Another piece of feel good legislation. Instead of enforcing the laws on the books, just create another one. It should get interesting out there, that's for sure.

[codeman671]

When does this go before the Senate?

[pm203]

Still has two more hurdles. Lets hope the senate has more sense than the house. They should be ashamed!!!!

[DoTheMath]

Once again - the govt passes a BS law on a load of false information and propaganda!! So much for Live Free or Die!?!?!

[Steve]

Actually, maybe the Senate will be smarter than their comrades in the House.

[Rayhunt]

Cruisers will be next

[cowisl]

What a bunch of nonsense.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

The role call will probably be out tomorrow.

[Woodsy]

it is what it is.... the House passed HB-162. Its been a good fight from both sides, and I haven't given up yet.

The only issue that the Senate will really be concerned about is funding..... and that could be a real stickler... as of right now HB-162 is an unfunded toothless mandate. If the Senate funds HB-162, then it will stand a pretty good chance of becoming law.


Woodsy

[WeirsBeachBoater]

How many of you that have posted that this is a sad day, and are opposed to HB162, called their reps or donated time? I went to the statehouse, I saw how many opponents were there vs. supporters. The supporters were there in force, I was standing with at most 3 more opponents. We need to get it together and let our senators know that this bill is a bad bill for the State of NH!!!!

[Cal]

Well get those cards , letters and e-mails going in

[secondcurve]

I still like my compromise position: The speed limit is enforce on Weekends and holidays and not at other times. Any agreement?

[Belmont Resident]

If all the boaters opposed to HB 162 actually got involved instead of just voicing their opinions on a web site then the bill might never have gotten this far.
I've personally met very few people who were for this bill, yet except for a very small hand full of people no one wanted to do anything but sit back and say "aw it will never pass", well it has.
So unless you actually helped oppose this bill then you have no one to blame but yourself for its passing.

[fatlazyless]

As you probably know, the NH House of Representatives has 400 members and the NH Senate has 24 members. Today's vote which passed an amended version of HB 162 was 193-139 with the balance from 400 total not voting.

Anyone have a link to read the final version that was passed?

Now, it's on the the 24 member Senate which is probably more conservative than the house but still too close to call considering a lot of the lakes region House Republicans who voted yes.

Who'd-a-thunk that this would pass......not me.....too bad and tough nuggies!

[tis]

And so now (if it passes the senate) are they going to put up speed limit signs? People don't know the rules we already have, how are they going to know there is a speed limit!? More nonsense bureaucracy!

[winnilaker]

All I can say, is that the system worked as expected. More people voiced their support to their reps and therefore the representatives did their job. This law will not affect me, I have boat that does, tops, 55mph and according to the supporters, I'm not the target. But listening to the debate you had to figure that most had made up their mind already by simply doing what their constituents asked for.

[HotDog]

what ever they CAN NOT enforce it..i know i am still going to speed...about the cruisers going next that is pretty funny that will never happen...I STILL DON'T THINK IT WILL PASS THROUGHT THE FUNDING..TO MUCH $$$ NH have fun w/your taxes!! hehe

[Audiofn]

Well I just tore up my NH registrations. I will be registering my boats in Maine from now on. I will not sapport a government or state that creates a law like this. If Maine ever passes a law then I will move my reg to Mass and so on. The fact that a law was passed with a total lack of true fact is very sad to me. NH just lost a lot of its apeal to me. I will still go to the lake with the same frequency that I always have. There is no way that thei law will have any effect on the safty of the people that use NH waterways. Thank god they at leaste changed the law so that it did not include the ocean. Very sad day in NH.

Jon

[Fat Jack]

Assuming this can make it through the senate, we will now be able to see what NHRBA really is. Will they continue to fight for NW zones, stricter noise limits, better boating law education (including education about the speed limits), helping with law enforcement (including enforcement of the speed limits), or will they fade into oblivion, thus proving that they were never anything more than a GFBL group formed for the sole purpose of protecting the freedom of a few to go really fast on our lakes.
The mark of real men is that they can admit when they are in the wrong. NH's citizens listened to all the issues and overwhelmingly decided that they want speed limits on the lakes they own, for whatever reason. The RR&D committee studied the issue intensely, dismissed the opposing arguments, and agreed that speed limits were warranted. The House studied and debated the issue passionately, dismissed the opposing arguments, and agreed that speed limits were warranted. At some point, those selfish few of you who could not care less what the people of NH want for their lakes have to finally admit that the rest of the world is not wrong...it is you.
Like so many of us who have worked so hard, I'm just dreaming of the wonderful place Lake Winnipesaukee is going to go back to being in 2007, if this can just pass that one last hurdle. Of course, that dream assumes that we can also get a change in Glendale by then...new leadership that wants the speed limit to be effective and will work to make it so.

[fatlazyless]

...and for one more time....and don't forget.....going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed. Is is, in fact, a very fast speed! So there!

Like, just maybe you want to sell off the old Baja for cheap and get an old aluminum fishing outboard boat and try going 45mph in that, or better yet, try going fishing at 1.5 mph. Have a great day!

[winnilaker]

Originally Posted by Fat Jack

Assuming this can make it through the senate, we will now be able to see what NHRBA really is.

Fat Jack, I know you're chuckling to yourself "We actually did it." But as I stated before, I'm not a GFBL boater, I have a 2 year old son and a 4 year daughter, my boat barely does 55 mph in my family cruiser. So I will continue to shape NHRBA into something that will make a difference, more NWZ's where needed, better signs at docks about the 150 safe passage, etc. and yes to continue to monitor legislative rulings. We still have a lot to do on better water access for other lakes. So while HB162 is one step closer to becoming a reality, my position is still the same and will continue to get boaters together to be better informed and to promote boating safety. There was tragic accident this past summer on Lake George and they have a speed limit. So there is always room for improvement. So I imagine some members of NHRBA will, as you say, fade away, but many more really want to make a difference with it.

[Audiofn]

Originally Posted by Fat Jack

Assuming this can make it through the senate, we will now be able to see what NHRBA really is. Will they continue to fight for NW zones, stricter noise limits, better boating law education (including education about the speed limits), helping with law enforcement (including enforcement of the speed limits), or will they fade into oblivion, thus proving that they were never anything more than a GFBL group formed for the sole purpose of protecting the freedom of a few to go really fast on our lakes.
The mark of real men is that they can admit when they are in the wrong. NH's citizens listened to all the issues and overwhelmingly decided that they want speed limits on the lakes they own, for whatever reason. The RR&D committee studied the issue intensely, dismissed the opposing arguments, and agreed that speed limits were warranted. The House studied and debated the issue passionately, dismissed the opposing arguments, and agreed that speed limits were warranted. At some point, those selfish few of you who could not care less what the people of NH want for their lakes have to finally admit that the rest of the world is not wrong...it is you.
Like so many of us who have worked so hard, I'm just dreaming of the wonderful place Lake Winnipesaukee is going to go back to being in 2007, if this can just pass that one last hurdle. Of course, that dream assumes that we can also get a change in Glendale by then...new leadership that wants the speed limit to be effective and will work to make it so.

How can we be wrong if we were not breaking any laws? There are plenty of laws on the books that are either dated or have no bassis of fact. Plenty of Blue laws that you can look at for this. This could prove to be one of them. I will be suprised if this changes anything. The value of our boats will not drop, the noise will not drop, the waves will get bigger as we now have to go slower. People tend not to pay as close attention as slower speeds. More accidents happen slower then 5mph then over and so on.

[itchin for fishin]

This passed on the simple argument that "I can't use the lake with my kids." Pure and simple. The arguments of live free or die, unenforceable, even $ is going to lose to baseball, ice cream and apple pie. It's a tough argument to beat in politics that "I want to have the freedom to use my boat as I want" over "my kid can't kayak or fish". Regardless, the Senate is always the place this battle is won or lost. Like I said before, it's like watching Jack Bauer.... tick tock tick tock.

[Hermit]

Yes, it passed and I was there to see it! Thank goodness that Reps of both parties responded to their grassroots constituents and did something important to protect our safety.

There were lots and lots of people with Yellow Winnfab stickers on their lapels walking through the hallways of the Capitol over the past two days and it is not over. To paraphrase the old movie "Network": 'We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore!"

Maybe those Go Fast boat owners can load their monsters up on their trailers and take them to the ocean where they belong. An amendment was passed to exempt NH's 3 mile limit from the the speed limits, but the rivers and Great Bay are included. Too bad they will have to drive sanely to get outside the harbor.

[Rayhunt]

Bunch of old farts and nincompoops.. Have you ever been on winni hermit?

[Hermit]

Yes, it passed and I was there to see it! Thank goodness that Reps of both parties responded to their grassroots constituents and did something important to protect our safety.

There were lots and lots of people with Yellow Winnfab stickers on their lapels walking through the hallways of the Capitol over the past two days and it is not over. To paraphrase the old movie "Network": 'We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore!"

Maybe those Go Fast boat owners can load their monsters up on their trailers and take them to the ocean where they belong. An amendment was passed to exempt NH's 3 mile limit from the the speed limits, but the rivers and Great Bay are included. Too bad they will have to drive sanely to get outside the harbor.

[Hermit]

Originally Posted by Rayhunt

Bunch of old farts and nincompoops.. Have you ever been on winni hermit?

Yes, Rayhunt I have been on Winni for years and years and I intend to be for many more! Enjoying canoeing, sailing, scuba diving, fishing, family boating and kyaking without worrying about being killed by an IDIOT!

[Rinkerfam]

Hermit,
Be careful here. I would shy away from implying that anyone going over 45mph during the day or 25mph at night is an idiot. You may have just opened up another can of worms. Like Winnilaker, I am not a target for this new bill even though my boat goes over 45mph. I am affraid of what will come next if this goes all the way. Excessive regulation is never the answer. Education is.

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by Rayhunt

Bunch of old farts and nincompoops.. Have you ever been on winni hermit?

Its incredible! The opposition is now venting their hate, disdain and true feelings on the legislature. AND THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY LOST!

You lost because a year ago you won the first round and decided it was all over! You lost because you think your elected officials are "old farts and nincompoops"! You lost because you wouldn't accept a compromise!

Remember, when boating in salt water you need to flush your engines!

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Hermit

Yes, Rayhunt I have been on Winni for years and years and I intend to be for many more! Enjoying canoeing, sailing, scuba diving, fishing, family boating and kyaking without worrying about being killed by an IDIOT!

What about Mother Nature?

She can be deadly, without proper caution taken on your part or are you planning a bill to be enacted against Her, also?

I've enjoyed the Lake for 45 years; but then again, I depended upon common sense rather than legislation.

Enjoy the Lake and be mindful of Mother Nature and the tour boat wakes. They have effected the Lake longer than all of us.

[pm203]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Its incredible! The opposition is now venting their hate, disdain and true feelings on the legislature. AND THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY LOST!

You lost because a year ago you won the first round and decided it was all over! You lost because you think your elected officials are "old farts and nincompoops"! You lost because you wouldn't accept a compromise!

Remember, when boating in salt water you need to flush your engines!

I prefer to stay at the lake. It will be business as usual.90 mph runs will never go away! Hope to see you soon.

[Lakegeezer]

One more slide down the slippery slope. A sad day for the people of NH when the process of law is used to combat fear. What's next? There is always a crowd with money in their pockets that is afraid of something or other. Land of the Free? Home of the brave? Not as much as it was....

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Fear 1 - Common Sense - 0

I say common sense prevailed!

Here's an article from the Union Leader - http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...e-5709bdb7edc4

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Boater

I say common sense prevailed!

Here's an article from the Union Leader - http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...e-5709bdb7edc4

From the article: “Thousands and thousands are in fear of the lake now. That is not right. It is not about the rates of accidents. It is fear,” Pilliod said. “I have been on the lake over 70 years and I am frightened right now of what it going on.”

We have a 70+ year old man frightened - and thousands with him. We'll have to agree to disagree. Looks to me like fear prevailed.

[Woodsy]

the majority spoke.... and the minority suffers. So what else is new? There will still be hi-performance boaters on Lake Winni and elsewhere.

HB-162 is still an unfunded mandate. For the law to take effect it has to by law be funded. The House of Representatives wanted nothing to do with trying to figure out where the money is going to come from. The Senate still has to find a way to pay for HB-162. I have absolutely no idea where they are going to find the money. There will probably be some sort of house/senate comittee that will come up with what will be the final version.


Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Fear 1 - Common Sense - 0

One more slide down the slippery slope. A sad day for the people of NH when the process of law is used to combat fear. What's next? There is always a crowd with money in their pockets that is afraid of something or other. Land of the Free? Home of the brave? Not as much as it was....

And what would be "common sense" to 180 summer camp directors? Hmmm?

Actually, it was only in the closing week that I thought the bill didn't look so good. I'd bumped into a politically-well-connected gentleman from Rye, who said that New Hampshire was "fiscally conservative" but "socially libertarian". He didn't give the bill much of a chance. Yesterday's split, 193-139, said otherwise.

As to banning cruisers, what precedent exists for such a law? Lake speed limits have been in effect all over for ages—even smaller New Hampshire lakes: I'm unaware of cruiser banning—anywhere.

Boy, are the go-fasts mad "over there". They want to know where the supporters live on the lake, so they can make their lives miserable!

LG: Winnipesaukee boaters were "Home of the Brave" last year—thousands of us—as you just stated. There's less reason to be "brave" now.

[fatlazyless]

Today Feb 3 is the last day to apply for a seasonal $12.53/hour Marine Patrol law enforcement job if I remember correctly. Candidates have to pass many tests and interviews and background checks for their mental-physical-attitudes and abilities. Methinks, I'll go comb my hair and head down to the Dept of Safety in Concord for a sure-thing, fast-trak enlistment. See you on the Big Lake, ho-ho. This summer should be a blast!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This summer should be a blast!

You are absolutely correct , since the law goes into effect 2007 . If it passes the rest of the process

[BroadHopper]

Funding will be a big issue. Last summer the most patrol officers NH has on any given day is less then 100. Yet these officers have jurisdiction of about 600 lakes, rivers and ponds scattered throughout the state.
If the state does not increase the fundings and the NHMP allocate what they have to training and radar guns, they will have to cut back on manpower to be within budget. So everybody loses except Captain Bonehead. He will be laughing his butt off as there are less available resource to catch him violating the safe passage laws. This is the biggest fear that everyone is talking about. The fear is worst than before.

[Rockdaddy]

So, who wants to bet on what will be band next from the lake, Big Cabin Cruisers or Jet Ski's????
"CAN YOU SAY SLIPPERY SLOPE"

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Its incredible! The opposition is now venting their hate, disdain and true feelings on the legislature. AND THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY LOST!

You lost because a year ago you won the first round and decided it was all over! You lost because you think your elected officials are "old farts and nincompoops"! You lost because you wouldn't accept a compromise!

Remember, when boating in salt water you need to flush your engines!

I wasnt talking about the legislature , I was talking about the fools that spoke for this bill ! "Windbags" I mean winfabs and the Bear island elite...
The lake will not change into "On Golden Pond" Those days are gone ...
The 40 foot cruisers wakes will still bash your boat against the dock. The inept marine patrol will still do there darndest just to train there seasonal employees. And all the farts on Bear island and elsewhere will cry and whine for more legislation to make there miserable life more safe.
And not one piece of evidence to support this travesty.

[RumGuy]

I think that I have said this before:
What is the ratio of ALCOHOL related mishaps to SPEED related ones?
Common sense (what's that??) should rule the speed limit.
BTW my old boat probably only clears 35 MPH but it FEELS fast!

[Fat Jack]

Originally Posted by winnilaker

Fat Jack, I know you're chuckling to yourself

Actually, I'm not. I'm very relieved, but I'm not at all gloating, and I hate to see a few others on this forum doing so. I am not associated with them. I do feel for those who have spent so much for their fast boats for the sole purpose of speed and now can only use them for that under permit or at teh ocean. I was a tough fight, especially against the people who kept mischaracterizing our reasoning and lying about the facts while calling us the liars (for instance, the rep who tried to tell the rest that the radar guns cost $5000 each and we'd need 100 more MP officers and $100K to have them trained in the use of radar, while Kustoms has told me the $1500 guns are discounted to $1200 and free training for orders over 15 guns, whos teh fear pedlar?...Or the rep who said these $200K boats don't have on board adequate means for measuring their own speeds when in fact with speed being the primary goal, such highly accurate means are usually the very first accessory ordered by these "how fast can I go?" boaters). As I have said over and over, this was merely a safety issue for me. I have become increasingly afraid to use the lake at my door in my boat which was more than big enough ten years ago. Things have changed on the lake dramatically over the past ten years and it was time to do something about it. I believe 45 MPH is more than reasonable for any safe boating activity on a crowded lake (including barefooting), and (because I have studied this issue more than probably any other person in NH over the past year) I believe these limits can be enforced by a safety agency that wants to enforce them, and they they can be effective. It really all comes down to who is in the top desk in Glendale now, and the person there is clearly not the rigth person. Yesterday's vote was as much a no-confidence vote on him as it was a vote for HB162. I hope Flynn recognized that and does not bring embarrassment on himself by forcing the citizens to drive that change.

Originally Posted by winnilaker

There was tragic accident this past summer on Lake George and they have a speed limit.

And there will continue to be accidents on Winnipesaukee and other lakes that are not related to speed. We never claimed that a speed limit will solve all of Winnipesaukee's troubles.

Originally Posted by winnilaker

I will continue to shape NHRBA into something that will make a difference, more NWZ's where needed, better signs at docks about the 150 safe passage, etc. and yes to continue to monitor legislative rulings. We still have a lot to do on better water access for other lakes. So while HB162 is one step closer to becoming a reality, my position is still the same and will continue to get boaters together to be better informed and to promote boating safety.

Then we have a lot in common and I hope we can bury the axe and work together. I agree there is still a lot more to be done.

[Seaplane Pilot]

In the famous words of John Belushi in Animal House: "When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No. Then we won't give up now."

I think the fact that this passed the House is probably the best thing to happen for the anti-speed limit side. Now everyone is awake and will get off their butts and take some action on the Senate side. No way are we letting the ""On Golden Pond" crowd roll back the hands of time to the 1950's. Again, in the spirit of Animal House - "Time for a Toga Party"

[winnilaker]

Originally Posted by Fat Jack

Then we have a lot in common and I hope we can bury the axe and work together. I agree there is still a lot more to be done.

There lies the problem, you all have desired to protect your identity. I only know of a few Winnfabs folks who solely wanted to pass HB162 and nothing more. And you made it clear, you are not affliated and don't share necessarily the same views. So after HB162 is finally over, maybe some truths can come out. Because inorder to work together, everyone must be honest or it will never be possible to work together, but I welcome it.

[Weirs guy]

OK, so before I say anything let me start by saying I'm not a boater, just someone who uses my little beach with my wife, kids and dog for swimming daily from May to October (yes, really, I'm a little brain dead). So I won't comment on the boating side of this.

But I do want to comment to the "fast boats making big wakes ruin our beach and swimming" crowd. You know what makes more waves then fast boats? Try the Mount, the Doris and Sophie, and the wind. Yep, time to outlaw the wind too, or at least put a speed limit on it. You know what errods the beach more then wakes? Run off from rain storms, the constant raising and lowering of the lake level, and my neighbors never ending dock expansions. Maybe we should outlaw that instead, since thats ruining my summers.

Sorry, had to vent. I just wonder what the weekend visitors will worry about next.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

From the article: “Thousands and thousands are in fear of the lake now. That is not right. It is not about the rates of accidents. It is fear,” Pilliod said. “I have been on the lake over 70 years and I am frightened right now of what it going on.”

We have a 70+ year old man frightened - and thousands with him. We'll have to agree to disagree. Looks to me like fear prevailed.

That would make him old enough to have been alive when FDR stated, "We have nothing to fear; but fear itself."

Apparently, FDR's words were forgotten and by a politician, no less.

[Dave R]

I love this picture and caption in the Union Leader:



"A speed boat travels at high speed across Lake Winnipesaukee last June. (AP)"

Looks like way less than 25 MPH to me...

I offer my congrats to the supporters. The results, thus far, are not really a surprise to anyone are they?

[Frank]

Does this bill apply only to "boats" or does it also apply to 1 and 2 person PWCs?

Just curious... my PWC can go much faster than my boat!

- Frank

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Frank

Does this bill apply only to "boats" or does it also apply to 1 and 2 person PWCs?

Just curious... my PWC can go much faster than my boat!

- Frank

Applies to all watercraft.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Frank

...Does this bill apply only to "boats" or does it also apply to 1 and 2 person PWCs?....

Your PWC is defined under RSA 270-D:1(XI) as a vessel, specifically: "Vessel" means any type of watercraft used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water, except a seaplane."

The proposed HB 162 states in part: X.(a) No person shall operate a vessel...

(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:

(1) 25 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and

(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

The exception being operation on the ocean....

So yes, the proposed legislation does indeed include PWCs.

Hope this answered your question,

Skip

[fatlazyless]

That yellow and black boat looks like the Summa Humma which was in a big front-page Union Leader article last summer. Equipped with three inboard-outboards, it is a 47' Fountain that goes 60mph at 3000prm running all three engines, and has a top speed of over 100mph. It was listed for sale last summer at Silver Sands for either $195 or $295,000., can't remember, and includes a good trailer with matching paint.

Here's a friendly suggestion. Don't sell it - convert it over into a salmon & lake trout fishing machine. For like $1500. total, if you shop smart, you can get a used 15hp Evinrude two-stroker -tiller handle xl shaft, a mounting bracket, a three gal gas tank and gas line, two 48" manual used down-riggers, a ten foot 2x8 for a downrigger holding bar, a new Lowrance fish-finder and a whole bunch more of new, not used, fishing stuff. Hey what-a-deal! I'm not just making this up.

Plus, by trolling along at 1.5mph, just imagine how much you'll save on gasoline and boat speeding violations, which will be linked to your car insurance rate. You might even like trolling so much that you start to get a lttle annoyed when some other gf-bl buzzes past at 70mph.

[Frank]

Thanks Skip and Dave - I know there are some rule differences for 1 and 2 person PWCs and for boats... just wanted to know if this was the case with this law.

[Frank]

And to reply to my own reply... in terms of effect of the law, I imagine there are alot more PWCs on the lake that can go well over 45 MPH than there are big fast boats (or family cruisers).

[MboroughNeckKid]

First post long time reader! I grew up going to this lake as my grandparents have owned a place since the mid 70's and continue to spend almost every day off up there during the summer.

I have many problems with this legislation, first and foremost is why does a law pass that the Marine Patrol has stated there is no way to enforce it. If they want to make the lake safer they need not pass more legislation, they need to improve the funding to the Marine Patrol so they can better enforce the rules on the lake. To me what can make this lake danegerous is the lack of knowledge of the boaters that cause the problems. If everyone on the lake understood the rules and followed them this law would of never happened. To the ones who want this bill, its not even close to solving the problem, how many drivers drive the speed limit on 93 and its posted every few miles. What are they going to do place floating speed limit signs on the lake! Its a feel happy piece of legislation thats not going to solve the problem. Education of the current rules and a better funded Marine Partol will help make the lake a safer place not a feel good piece of legislation. I could go one a lot longer but will spare everyone. And yes I have written my representives concerning this.

Just my two cents worth!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

That yellow and black boat looks like the Summa Humma which was in a big front-page Union Leader article last summer. Equipped with three inboard-outboards, it is a 47' Fountain that goes 60mph at 3000prm running all three engines, and has a top speed of over 100mph. It was listed for sale last summer at Silver Sands for either $195 or $295,000., can't remember, and includes a good trailer with matching paint.

Here's a friendly suggestion. Don't sell it - convert it over into a salmon & lake trout fishing machine. For like $1500. total, if you shop smart, you can get a used 15hp Evinrude two-stroker -tiller handle xl shaft, a mounting bracket, a three gal gas tank and gas line, two 48" manual used down-riggers, a ten foot 2x8 for a downrigger holding bar, a new Lowrance fish-finder and a whole bunch more of new, not used, fishing stuff. Hey what-a-deal! I'm not just making this up.

Plus, by trolling along at 1.5mph, just imagine how much you'll save on gasoline and boat speeding violations, which will be linked to your car insurance rate. You might even like trolling so much that you start to get a lttle annoyed when some other gf-bl buzzes past at 70mph.

I doubt Mark is hurting for money and needs to sell it, I would not hold your breath for this boat to become a salmon hunter...My guess is that it will be circling Bear Island ominously all summer...

[Cal]

Since boats are not yet required by law to have speedometers , I wonder if I removed my speedo. and replaced it with an engine sync guage if it would help my battle in court if necessary

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Frank

And to reply to my own reply... in terms of effect of the law, I imagine there are alot more PWCs on the lake that can go well over 45 MPH than there are big fast boats (or family cruisers).

Just about all of them will go over 45 I'd bet. Almost none will exceed 60 though. The boats targeted by the law are capable of much more than 60. Someday, someone will get scared of PWCs and they will probably be driven out as well. Glad I'm interested in neither...

[overlook]

What law will be next?
When a heavy boat travels at 25mph it is going to through up a considerable wake. I am aware that the operator is responsable for property damage there wake causes, but it will make it very uncomfortable for any one trying to take a cruise.
I got it-- no boat over 3000lbs may operate after dark except at headway speed.
Never mind, I forgot. The Marine patrole has to identify the operator.
I got it-- Marine patrole can ticket vessels.

Be carful for witch you wish for you just might get it.

Eat Wakes hb-162 supporters

[fatlazyless]

My State Senator is Sen Carl Johnson, a Republican, who has lived on Meredith Bay since about 1957 amd who thinks a speed limit is a good thing. Senator Robert Boyce of Alton, who represents Alton, Gilford and Laconia and is a Republican......anyone know how he feels about the speed limit law? Is it a safe bet that all the Democrat senators are pro-speed limit law and that the Republicans are split on this? Anyone know which Republican state senators may be sitting on he fence and are open to suggestions?
Most NH State Senators represent districts in Southern NH which is the state's population center around Manchester, Nashua and Concord so maybe it's not all that big a deal to them since the lakes region is out of their district.

[Steve]

I didn't see it posted, but is there a roll call posted somewhere of how the Reps votes?

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by Steve

I didn't see it posted, but is there a roll call posted somewhere of how the Reps votes?

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/r...teno=52&body=H

[Steve]

Thanks for the link.

[fatlazyless]

Here' a link to today's Union Leader article titled Speed limits may sink in the Senate.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...imits+may+sink...


And a link to the NH Senate members directory which shows what towns each Senator represents and his/her email & snail-mail address.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/sena...temembers.html

On your mark; ready, set & go..... go for it everyone!

[Aquadeziac]

Does this mean that all those Bassers can still legally buzz the lakes at any speed because they are in a sanctioned event? Does the event sponsor have to apply for an exemption for the duration of the event? What about "Poker Runs" ? Is an exemption for an event specific to participants of that event? Can I blast across the lake during an exempt Poker Run even if I am not parcipitating in the event? Will participants be issued special permits? We all know these are examples of issues that will come up. Anything to circumvent the law. Right?

[John A. Birdsall]

Originally Posted by Rinkerfam

Hermit,
Be careful here. I would shy away from implying that anyone going over 45mph during the day or 25mph at night is an idiot. You may have just opened up another can of worms. Like Winnilaker, I am not a target for this new bill even though my boat goes over 45mph. I am affraid of what will come next if this goes all the way. Excessive regulation is never the answer. Education is.

Education is not necessarily the answer. We have many drivers on the highways that have drivers license's that had some form of education or other, their are speed limits, and then their are speed limits, and then their are the police and courts. It makes no mind they are gonna speed no matter what.

Boaters education has been around for years, I am almost 60 and when I was 14 I went thru a Coast Guard Boaters Education, and while some laws and rules are different from state to state and from Ocean to lake its not many, and as just shown by the NH legislature another law is on the book. I am not pointing a finger at any size boat, or power plant, but just on the one law that should make boating safe for everyone, that is the 150' rule. But just how many realize how close 150 is on the open water? How many obey that law? I know that from experience the larger the boat the more wake it will put out when not going at the speed it was designed for. Yes at 6mph they put out very little wake, but at say 18-20 mph those cigerette boats can put out a pretty good wake.

I have heard some say now they will have to get off the lake, I don't think that is fair, nor right. The lake is their for all to enjoy, but do so in a safe manner that others might enjoy it as well. Had I a say in this law I would have tried to make it so the go fast guys could do so in the broads, but not in the harbors or bays, leaving the majority of the lake for the what I call regular and normal speed of boats.

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

Education is not necessarily the answer. We have many drivers on the highways that have drivers license's that had some form of education or other, their are speed limits, and then their are speed limits, and then their are the police and courts. It makes no mind they are gonna speed no matter what.

Boaters education has been around for years, I am almost 60 and when I was 14 I went thru a Coast Guard Boaters Education, and while some laws and rules are different from state to state and from Ocean to lake its not many, and as just shown by the NH legislature another law is on the book. I am not pointing a finger at any size boat, or power plant, but just on the one law that should make boating safe for everyone, that is the 150' rule. But just how many realize how close 150 is on the open water? How many obey that law? I know that from experience the larger the boat the more wake it will put out when not going at the speed it was designed for. Yes at 6mph they put out very little wake, but at say 18-20 mph those cigerette boats can put out a pretty good wake.

I have heard some say now they will have to get off the lake, I don't think that is fair, nor right. The lake is their for all to enjoy, but do so in a safe manner that others might enjoy it as well. Had I a say in this law I would have tried to make it so the go fast guys could do so in the broads, but not in the harbors or bays, leaving the majority of the lake for the what I call regular and normal speed of boats.

Well said from someone obviously familiar with the big lake .
Herein lies the rub .. The reps are not familiar with the lake , most have never been.
I could not believe the rubbish I was hearing at the 3 local meetings.
Heresay and lies have many scared of this problem on the lake that DOES NOT EXHIST. except for a few busy areas during summer weekends.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

"...If the state does not increase the fundings and the NHMP allocate what they have to training and radar guns, they will have to cut back on manpower to be within budget..."

Why would funding be a problem?

Lake George reportedly only had to write 4 or 5 tickets last year. To do that tiny bit of enforcement would only require a single radar gun and one or two trainees. Nobody's asking for ten radar guns and thirty radar-trained patrolmen around the clock.

Just the prospect of a little enforcement keeps most honest.

(And big insurance premiums)

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

Education is not necessarily the answer. We have many drivers on the highways that have drivers license's that had some form of education or other, their are speed limits, and then their are speed limits, and then their are the police and courts. It makes no mind they are gonna speed no matter what.

Boaters education has been around for years, I am almost 60 and when I was 14 I went thru a Coast Guard Boaters Education, and while some laws and rules are different from state to state and from Ocean to lake its not many, and as just shown by the NH legislature another law is on the book. {snip}

I have only a few minutes but I wanted to add a few things to think about. Certainly education isn't a panacea for all ills but if you're looking to change the bad habits of the many it's the only method that might work. The problem I have with the present "education" attempt is that it's a 1 time only thing. Like the present driver education system (gag) it's not likely to affect anyone other than somebody who's eager to learn. If I ask how much 3x4 is or 7x5 pretty much everyone will come up with the answer in short order. Why ? Because as kids we had it drilled, over and over and over and over again, into our heads. I think a similar concept to make boater ed a recurring effort vs a 1 time deal would likely have a positve result.

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I have heard some say now they will have to get off the lake, I don't think that is fair, nor right. The lake is their for all to enjoy, but do so in a safe manner that others might enjoy it as well. Had I a say in this law I would have tried to make it so the go fast guys could do so in the broads, but not in the harbors or bays, leaving the majority of the lake for the what I call regular and normal speed of boats.

Yup ... as I have said there are places suitable for high speed and others not so suitable. Just as we have different limits for city and for our highways (still too low) it wouldn't have been too much an effort to do something similar on the lake. If nothing else it would have been just like our parents used to do when you got into squabbling with your sibling. You go to your room and the other to their room Lastly somebody should have done some analytical thinking as to what speeds are proper rather than by going on some person's best guess. At least then we could have debated the numbers and methods rather than the motives.

[BroadHopper]

How people finally realize the ramification of this bill after it pass. John, Ray and Mee n' Mac. have done an excellent job of accessing the situation. It is too bad we could not knock sense into the reps. I have sent an email to every one of the reps before the voting experessing the same ideals. I got very few answers. I had a feeling they were lobbied to death.

[Woodsy]

I moved it to its own thread....

Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

I have just done a count of the vote and it should come as no surprize that votes are split along party lines.These numbers may be off a few but here's what I have for those that voted.
democrats yea-112
democrats nay-17
rebublicans yea-81
repblicans nay-122
It's the same old Democratic "let's legislate and regulate and pass more uneeded laws" mentality,brought about by their usual methods of scare tactics.Lets get back to the independent "elephant" state we have always been that made this the great state it is.It appears we are starting to turn into are our neighboring states.UUGGhh!!

[RegalStan2450]

This is my first post but I have been reading the forums for quite a while. My boat goes around 50mph the law will not effect me really. I also have 2 young children so safety is definately a concern for me.

I just have a very hard time believing that this limit would make the lake safer. Maybe on the weekends only because of the high congestion but telling someone they can't drive their speed boat over 45mph in the broads, on a Tues at 10 am, without a sole in the broads, just seems kind of ridiculous. It is a very big lake.

Another thing is financing this Bill is not going to be easy as Woodsy pointed out.They will have to give out tickets basically to pay for it.

Enforcing it will be even more of a joke. A boat passes a MP at 100 mph. Noway the MP is catching up with that. He may even be able to identify the boat but I bet whoever owns that boat has a high enough priced lawyer for sure. It will be people going 10-15 mph over the speed limit who get most of the tickets because they will be easy prey and will stop for the MP.

How about a 70+ mph PWC good luck with that one.

If I were a MP I would never want this bill passed. It is just going to be a nightmare for them. They would not only need radar guns but I could see them needing a faster boat or PWC to catch people.

Now imagine for one minute that this bill could actually make the lake more unsafe. All this money spent for the lakes first high speed chase, what fun! Imagine someone on a PWC blowing through a NWZ to get away from MP, talk about dangerous.

Yes all these things are very illegal, people could face jailtime for running for the MP for sure but I bet it happens. Just hopefully not with fatal results.

I honestly was very undecided for a while. I have young kids , I want the lake to be safe. I was thinking maybe a 45 mph limit would be a good idea. IMO it will not make the lake more safe and it will cost huge amounts of money and it will be an icredible burden for the MP.

[Rayhunt]

Heres one taken on July 3rd .. Watch out for all the kayaks

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by RegalStan2450

This is my first post but I have been reading the forums for quite a while. My boat goes around 50mph the law will not effect me really. I also have 2 young children so safety is definately a concern for me.

I just have a very hard time believing that this limit would make the lake safer. Maybe on the weekends only because of the high congestion but telling someone they can't drive their speed boat over 45mph in the broads, on a Tues at 10 am, without a sole in the broads, just seems kind of ridiculous. It is a very big lake.

Another thing is financing this Bill is not going to be easy as Woodsy pointed out.They will have to give out tickets basically to pay for it.

Enforcing it will be even more of a joke. A boat passes a MP at 100 mph. Noway the MP is catching up with that. He may even be able to identify the boat but I bet whoever owns that boat has a high enough priced lawyer for sure. It will be people going 10-15 mph over the speed limit who get most of the tickets because they will be easy prey and will stop for the MP.

How about a 70+ mph PWC good luck with that one.

If I were a MP I would never want this bill passed. It is just going to be a nightmare for them. They would not only need radar guns but I could see them needing a faster boat or PWC to catch people.

Now imagine for one minute that this bill could actually make the lake more unsafe. All this money spent for the lakes first high speed chase, what fun! Imagine someone on a PWC blowing through a NWZ to get away from MP, talk about dangerous.

Yes all these things are very illegal, people could face jailtime for running for the MP for sure but I bet it happens. Just hopefully not with fatal results.

I honestly was very undecided for a while. I have young kids , I want the lake to be safe. I was thinking maybe a 45 mph limit would be a good idea. IMO it will not make the lake more safe and it will cost huge amounts of money and it will be an icredible burden for the MP.

Stan

I'm not sure you have thought this one out. Very few boats on the lake can go 100 mph. Most of them have a big name on the side and special paint jobs. How can this boat hide from the MP. The lake is only so big, only a few places where you can dock a boat like that. I would be very surprised if you see any boat chases. The MP has been stopping performance boats for years, there has never been a chase that I know of.

Anyway most people will obey the law because its the law. We don't have a lake full of criminals here! Sure some will go 5 or 10 mph over the limit, just like they do on rt93. But how often do you see a car going 120 mph on the highway. And most cars can actually go that fast. We don't do it because we respect the law.

For the most part HB162 will be self enforcing.

[fatlazyless]

Self-enforcement is an interesting concept and most likely will be the actual case in my opinion. For every boat capable of going over 45mph, there are many more which cannot. After all, as everyone who knows anything knows, going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed. It is, in fact, a very fast speed!

After the fatal, rear-end, night time collision which occurred in the first week of August 2002, the unknown-at-the-time Baja Outlaw, described as a white 32' performance boat with designer vinyl graphics on the hull exterior, did leave the scene of the fatal collision, supposedly because the driver was not aware that he had hit anything. Out of all the boats on the lake, that boat was located the next day inside a totally enclosed boat slip. Maybe, it's not too easy to get away, after all?

Some do, some don't, some repeat, some repent, some very very unfortunately get killed and some go to prison. It's a big lake out there.....and a 45-25mph speed limit would certainly help to make it safer plus help to lose the perception of it being an overly speedy lake which is bad for the wide-spread, local, tourist and hospitality driven business economy.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

For the most part HB162 will be self enforcing.

Just like the 150' rule...

[Excalibur]

When people really only pay attention to the speed limit when there is a police officer around.

I wonder if the new laser speed guns will work in detecting a boat jet ski speed.

[Drummer Boy]

I can't wait to see if the radar detector in my car will work out on the lake. I think I'll open up a new store that I will call RADAR WORLD

[RegalStan2450]

I'm not sure you have thought this one out.

Well I have thought quite a bit about it considering I hope to be boating safely on the lake for quite some time in the future. Thanks for that jab though Maybe I should have changed the mph to 80 mph instead of 100, 100's of boat on the lake can do 80mph+.

How can this boat hide from the MP. The lake is only so big, only a few places where you can dock a boat like that.

I agree with you here but I adressed this in my post already.More money spent on wasted MP time.

He may even be able to identify the boat but I bet whoever owns that boat has a high enough priced lawyer for sure.

I would be very surprised if you see any boat chases. The MP has been stopping performance boats for years, there has never been a chase that I know of.

You are making my exact point. There was no reason for a high speed chase before, people going fast don't get pulled over for going fast. Now they will but will they stop? I agree a boat incident will probably not happen unless someone stupid felt they were too intoxicated or something along those lines and decided to run for that. It is a PWC incident I worry about most.

So IMO again this bill is just wasted money and will not make the lake any safer

Stan

[Gilligan]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

I'm not sure you have thought this one out. Very few boats on the lake can go 100 mph. Most of them have a big name on the side and special paint jobs. How can this boat hide from the MP. The lake is only so big, only a few places where you can dock a boat like that. I would be very surprised if you see any boat chases. The MP has been stopping performance boats for years, there has never been a chase that I know of.

Anyway most people will obey the law because its the law. We don't have a lake full of criminals here! Sure some will go 5 or 10 mph over the limit, just like they do on rt93. But how often do you see a car going 120 mph on the highway. And most cars can actually go that fast. We don't do it because we respect the law.

For the most part HB162 will be self enforcing.

Where do I start! I'll just hit a few quick points.

Self enforcing on Lake Winnipesaukee? Rule compliance is at a high rate when a Marine Patrol is around and much lower when the MP are not in view. MP presence is more of a deterrent then the idea of self enforcing. When MP is around boaters become better and safer boaters.

Some vessels running at almost 1/2 that 100 mph speed have out run and evaded Marine Patrol in a chase. I have watched MP go after 3 seat Sea Doo or PWCs and Baja/Donzi GF style vessels that pull away from the MPs. The MPs seemed to be at wide open throttle. The GF boats were nothing special, around the mid 20 foot lengths I'd guess. The speeds are well within the realm of what some consider the "no ticket" operating speeds if we have the 45/25 limit.

Usually MP starts after these guys because of safe passage violations rather than excessive speed. Regardless, all types of vessels have out run and hide from MPs. I have followed and seen the MP finally give up. I continued expecting to find another MP intercepted and stopped the speeder but there was no other MP around the next island or in view. Too bad it is not easier to see bow numbers on a feeing vessel.

Let me go way out on a limb here Island Lover and guess that you are somewhat in favor of speed limits on Winnipesaukee. As I recall from one line from one of your profuse posts, you think 45 mph is a bit low and would have liked a faster day limit. I think that was you. Why not put some of your efforts toward that end. Fight for a reasonable speed limit. Not 130 or 100 mph but something more reasonable then 45mph.

I used to long for a nice quiet peacful Island to live on but today I have a different opinion about that .