How Low Can You Go....

[MeredithMan]

As a customer of Watermark, I am on their email distribution list. They sent out a blast last week advising folks to be very careful due to the low water levels, and stated that Winnipesaukee is 11" below full lake.

As I was going through Sally's Gut on Saturday morning, Watermark's email suddenly came to mind. Man, is it low! I put the outdrive almost all the way up just to be safe. I've been going through there for years and don't recall ever seeing the hazards in there so up close and personal.

It is also getting very shallow at our dock. We normally keep the boat in till mid to late October, but I am seriously considering pulling the plug on the boating season right after Labor Day.

What are others seeing?

[Descant]

Water is low, but not much different than what I expect in October. I'm planning on five weekdays of rain three times in September. We need to recharge the watershed before rain will impact lake levels very much.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

As a customer of Watermark, I am on their email distribution list. They sent out a blast last week advising folks to be very careful due to the low water levels, and stated that Winnipesaukee is 11" below full lake.

As I was going through Sally's Gut on Saturday morning, Watermark's email suddenly came to mind. Man, is it low! I put the outdrive almost all the way up just to be safe. I've been going through there for years and don't recall ever seeing the hazards in there so up close and personal.

It is also getting very shallow at our dock. We normally keep the boat in till mid to late October, but I am seriously considering pulling the plug on the boating season right after Labor Day.

What are others seeing?

I traveled through Sally's Gut last Friday. I was glad I was on my Seadoo.

[LIforrelaxin]

In reality we are not that much lower then normal only a few inches.... My wife and I discussed that the level we saw this weekend, is typically what we see mid September.

What we need is some good steady rain, and the lake will respond... we got the first dose of that Sunday night... Hopefully another good storm will come through in the next couple of week....

I was nervous in Sally's gut two weeks ago.... not sure I would bother going through now....

I will be watching the water level closely... and am prepared to go yank the boat when I stop feeling comfortable with it in... In the past I have let the lake get down to 503.10...but me comfort level is about 503.20 at my dock.... so we might not be boating this labor day.....

[znh]

Exiting our marina is getting very, very low. 16-18 inches low. At least it's really soft sand and nothing else but someone said a boat got stuck the other day. I wonder if we could dig it deeper

[Descant]

Originally Posted by znh

Exiting our marina is getting very, very low. 16-18 inches low. At least it's really soft sand and nothing else but someone said a boat got stuck the other day. I wonder if we could dig it deeper

Dredging is possible, but if you have to blast ledge, that's a whole different story, I think. In any event getting a permit and then scheduling equipment is not likely to be done in time for this season.

[HellRaZoR004]

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by znh

Exiting our marina is getting very, very low. 16-18 inches low. At least it's really soft sand and nothing else but someone said a boat got stuck the other day. I wonder if we could dig it deeper

Don't know where your located but I know Lakeshore Park's Marina entrance (under the walk bridge) is routinely dredged and they have plans to dredge it again within the next few weeks (so I'm told).

The entrance channel is constantly "choked" due to shifting sand from their vast beach area as well as nearby Ellacoya State Park


.

[Pricestavern]

Based on the chart, we're currently tied for the third lowest level for this time of year (over the last 16 years). I'd say that's pretty abnormal.

[znh]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Don't know where your located but I know Lakeshore Park's Marina entrance (under the walk bridge) is routinely dredged and they have plans to dredge it again within the next few weeks (so I'm told).

The entrance channel is constantly "choked" due to shifting sand from their vast beach area as well as nearby Ellacoya State Park


.

This is where it's at. Need to be dredged something bad. Lots of boats getting stuck. Lot of strong wind days blowing right into the beach there probably bring more sand to that area, plus the lack of rain...


Can the State stop the flow out of the dam at all to let the lake come up? Has this ever happened?

[Onshore]

The outflow volume of Winnipesaukee cannot be reduced below a certain minimum level. There needs to be enough flow in the rivers downstream to provide aquatic habitat, address downstream owners water rights, and to accommodate outflows from wastewater treatment facilities.

[CaptT820]

According to the NHDES watershed operations website, the lake level at the Lakeport Dam was at El. 503.23, only 0.13 feet (1 1/2") above typical autumn levels as of 5am this morning (8-26-2016). I think I may have to lower the dock a bit for the rest of the season, if the weather doesn't change soon.

[rsmlp]

So I just heard that the Sophie C ran aground somewhere near Loon island but I cannot confirm this. Has anyone heard anything?

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

So I just heard that the Sophie C ran aground somewhere near Loon island but I cannot confirm this. Has anyone heard anything?

The MV Mt Sunapee ran "aground" also. Actually got stuck on an unmarked snowmaking intake pipe located 300 feet offshore.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by znh

Can the State stop the flow out of the dam at all to let the lake come up? Has this ever happened?

They can't stop the outflow completely, but on rare occasions the Lakeport Dam has been raised to use Lake Winnipesaukee as a storage area to prevent flooding downstream. Those are the times when we have a headway speed limit on the entire lake until the level can be brought down safely.
From a purely selfish point of view, I'd like to see full lake on August 1st instead of sometime in the spring. That hopefully would mean we get a full boating season through Columbus Day. I spoke to the state dam manager about this years ago. At the time, the DES concept was that boating ended on Labor Day. They have been doing a much better job of keeping us going in the fall over the last several years, but sometimes there aren't many choices.

[upthesaukee]

If we look at the normal rainfall vs the actual, the DES website shows we are +/- 6 inches YTD on rainfall, which would put us some inches higher lake level than we are now. In my mind, not a mismanagement of outflow, but a result of nature.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

[ursa minor]

In the silver lining department, I'm noticing better water clarity and significantly less "rock snot" this year especially considering that it's been a pretty hot summer. I'm assuming this is due in part to less run off from the surrounding areas from the lack of rain. I hope we get some significant rain soon though, it's getting pretty skinny where we dock on the mainland.

[pjard]

Very little if any rain in the 10 day....oh boy! My boat doesn't draft much but we like to boat all the way until November. Maybe a little hairy to try that this year. C'mon rain!

[CaptT820]

As an update for all those interested the lake level is now at 503.18 as of yesterday (8-30-16) morning at 5am. This puts us exactly 1-inch above the normal autumn level. We could certainly use a tropical system of some kind to raise the level back up.

[8gv]

Be careful doing the rain dance.

At the moment I am in Tierra Verde FL.

We had four inches of rain last night and can expect another two today.

[Rich]

Bring some baggies of it back with you and dump it in the lake please!

[trfour]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Be careful doing the rain dance.

At the moment I am in Tierra Verde FL.

We had four inches of rain last night and can expect another two today.

That's why we call it 'flowdah', up here...

[SIKSUKR]

Yup, need a hurricane. Well maybe a tropical storm. Well maybe a good tropical wave. there is a chance on Mondayish.

[Just Sold]

Has anyone launched at Downings Landing in Alton Bay Lately? Wondering if the ramp is still useable for this weekend.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Has anyone launched at Downings Landing in Alton Bay Lately? Wondering if the ramp is still useable for this weekend.

I used it on Sunday. No problem, plenty of water and plenty of ramp. My boat is 25' long and draws 39" with the drive down.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Yup, need a hurricane. Well maybe a tropical storm. Well maybe a good tropical wave. there is a chance on Mondayish.

I think by the looks, the hurricane remnants are staying South...too bad, we could have used the rain.

[johnmcrae]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Has anyone launched at Downings Landing in Alton Bay Lately? Wondering if the ramp is still useable for this weekend.

Was a full house there this am. Had to head to wolfeboro to get in today.


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[MeredithMan]

.....boat starting hitting the bottom at our dock on Sunday. Unbelievable! Fortunately, it's all sand, so no issues, and it is now on the mooring, (where I probably should have put it a week ago ). No appreciable rain in sight, either

[CaptT820]

As an update for all, the current lake level as of Monday September 12th, 2016 is 502.88 at the Lakeport Dam. This puts us at 1.44 feet or 17 1/2" below full pool and almost 4" below normal autumn levels.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by CaptT820

As an update for all, the current lake level as of Monday September 12th, 2016 is 502.88 at the Lakeport Dam. This puts us at 1.44 feet or 17 1/2" below full pool and almost 4" below normal autumn levels.

...and unfortunately its going to get lower unless we get some torrential rain soon!

Dan

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

So I just heard that the Sophie C ran aground somewhere near Loon island but I cannot confirm this. Has anyone heard anything?

The Sophie C. grounded on a rock August 26 while approaching Loon Island. It was a combination of low lake level and the Sophie not following the deepest part of the channel.

[salty dog]

We were up and out for several hours yesterday. It may have been one of our best boating days of the summer. We didn't want to come back! Minge Cove was very low, even lower than when we were there one week ago. Even trimmed up, I still hit mud in several spots. There was talk at the marina that it was possible the level may be dropped another 6 inches although I've read here in other comments that they probably wouldn't at this time. That would be the end for me as well as many other boaters, I'm sure.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by salty dog

We were up and out for several hours yesterday. It may have been one of our best boating days of the summer. We didn't want to come back! Minge Cove was very low, even lower than when we were there one week ago. Even trimmed up, I still hit mud in several spots. There was talk at the marina that it was possible the level may be dropped another 6 inches although I've read here in other comments that they probably wouldn't at this time. That would be the end for me as well as many other boaters, I'm sure.

Unless we get rain, the lake is going to continue to drop... 6 inches maybe more... The only reprieve will be in Oct. when they annually slow the flow to enable work down stream to take place on various dams etc. However given the state of things this may not need to happen this year, and it maybe more important to keep the flow where it is at, to insure adequate water down stream....

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The only reprieve will be in Oct. when they annually slow the flow to enable work down stream to take place on various dams etc. However given the state of things this may not need to happen this year, ....

There is no way that they will slow the flow ..... we come up through Manchester every week and we can see rocks & shoreline we never knew existed in the Merrimack River.

Normally it's a Rapids under the bridge, now simply boulders with very little tranquil water passing.


.

[feb]

I believe this is the year, usually even years, that Winnisquam and bodies of water further downstream get extra low for a 2 week period around Columbus Day as well.

[Blue Thunder]

Just to give you a perspective, Sebago Lake is 40 inches (3.3') below "full pond" as of this morning. We are approaching peak "Prop and Outdrive" season......

BT

[Greene's Basin Girl]

A friend of mine told me that six boats have hit rocks when going through the Graveyard. Apparently the markers have shifted. I am glad that we always avoid the Graveyard by going around the island next to it.

[8gv]

Where is the "Graveyard"? Is there a charted bouy for reference?

[SAB1]

Tuftonboro just north of Chases Point and south of Melvin Bay.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Where is the "Graveyard"? Is there a charted bouy for reference?

You can see it here:
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=ahmiGbcerL

[thinkxingu]

My GPS has been reliable in terms of safe passage, but I've always wondered what their 'safe threshold' was when marking their suggested routes. For example, I've read that the Graveyard rocks are towards the red buoy, which would be about ten feet from the suggested route on my GPS (which goes right through the middle). I wonder how low the lake would have to be to have an issue...

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[Phantom]

just remember, unless you have a military grade GPS (which no one can) there is a deliberate +/- tolerance to the accuracy of ALL commercially available GPS's.

Use to be 10 meters (33 ft), but I think it has since been tightened up


.

[thinkxingu]

Yup, 'swhy I err on the side of caution, but I'm still interested!

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[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by Phantom

just remember, unless you have a military grade GPS (which no one can) there is a deliberate +/- tolerance to the accuracy of ALL commercially available GPS's.

Use to be 10 meters (33 ft), but I think it has since been tightened up

.

The +/- degradation for non military GPS receivers, known as "Selective Availability", was eliminated in 2000.
http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

The +/- degradation for non military GPS receivers, known as "Selective Availability", was eliminated in 2000.
http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/

Correct and I believe if you enable the "WAAS" (wide area augmentation system) feature on your GPS this gives you an accuracy of 3 meters or less...

Dan

[Rich]

GPS system specs and actual reality seen by end users can be two different things.

I'd suggest that you check with your GPS receiver vendor to see what they say.

As an example, many people have a Garmin GPS receiver, here is how they answer the 'how accurate is my GPS' question:

GPS accuracy
Today's GPS receivers are extremely accurate, thanks to their parallel multi-channel design. Certain atmospheric factors and other sources of error can affect the accuracy of GPS receivers. Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally, users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 meters (16 to 33 feet) under normal conditions.

Raymarine says something similar:

Understanding GPS Accuracy Statements

What do the quoted position accuracies in my GPS manual actually mean?

GPS position accuracy is normally quoted as a statistical probably of how accurate the position from the GPS will be.

In standard GPS mode (not using differential corrections), the Raymarine Raystar 120 and 125 sensors will give a position that is within 15m (33ft) of the true position 95% of the time.

In satellite differential mode, the Raystar 120 and 125 sensors will give a position that is within 5m (16.5ft) of the true position 95% of the time.

Depending upon the type of fix, 95% of all the position calculations (one occurring every second) will be within an imaginary circle of radius 15m or 5m from the true position. The GPS is still operating within its specification if occasionally position fixes fall outside of this imaginary circle.

As GPS accuracy is dependent upon the positions of the visible satellites, the above specifications are assuming that the HDOP reading from the GPS is 2.0 or lower.

What brand GPS do you have and how old is it? My guess is that they will state something similar, unless you are using a survey quality GPS receiver, which most boaters do not have on their boat.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Correct and I believe if you enable the "WAAS" (wide area augmentation system) feature on your GPS this gives you an accuracy of 3 meters or less...

Dan

http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html

Yes you should enable WAAS on your GPS. A fixed ground site in the general geographic area with known coordinates receives the GPS signal and calculates instantaneous errors. Correction data is then broadcast which your GPS unit uses to improve accuracy. This will add a small amount of time for your GPS to sync.

Not all GPS units have WAAS enabled by default.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

My GPS has been reliable in terms of safe passage, but I've always wondered what their 'safe threshold' was when marking their suggested routes. For example, I've read that the Graveyard rocks are towards the red buoy, which would be about ten feet from the suggested route on my GPS (which goes right through the middle). I wonder how low the lake would have to be to have an issue...

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As I said the boater told me that some of the markers have shifted.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

As I said the boater told me that some of the markers have shifted.

Right, but the rocks haven't so assuming my GPS is accurate enough the safe passage suggestion would be OK. Unless the margin of error for depth clearance is inches not feet!

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[ursa minor]

The trip behind Melvin Island really doesn't take significantly longer. The combination of low water levels and possible shifted markers make my choice an easy one.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

As I said the boater told me that some of the markers have shifted.

Keep in mind basic trigonometry. Many of the markers (and boat moorings) are on a "scope" of line from an anchor on the bottom. As the level drops, the "scope" (long leg of the triangle) becomes longer. So, the marker has a wider/longer radius to swing in. I.e., the appearance that it has "shifted".

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Went through the Graveyard Tuesday on jet-skis and there are at least two red markers missing. Many rocks visible but plenty of water in center of channel and boats going through without a problem.

[Orion]

The Six Pack east of Long Island historically has been a problem in low water, even center channel.

[laketrout]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Went through the Graveyard Tuesday on jet-skis and there are at least two red markers missing. Many rocks visible but plenty of water in center of channel and boats going through without a problem.

Good to hear - need to get my boat up to Melvin Village Marina. I wonder how low it is in the approach to the Melvin Village marina?
I was also going to not put my boat away for the winter for a few weeks but reading the posts and Marine patrol recommendations on
Boat lifts, its going this weekend- boo hoo.. My lift has plenty of water and thank goodness I had watermark lower it 8" this August.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html

Yes you should enable WAAS on your GPS. A fixed ground site in the general geographic area with known coordinates receives the GPS signal and calculates instantaneous errors. Correction data is then broadcast which your GPS unit uses to improve accuracy. This will add a small amount of time for your GPS to sync.

Not all GPS units have WAAS enabled by default.

Just noticed that my Garmin has a couple options in settings: GLONASS and WAAS--am I right in thinking WAAS should be turned on and GLONASS off?

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[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Just noticed that my Garmin has a couple options in settings: GLONASS and WAAS--am I right in thinking WAAS should be turned on and GLONASS off?

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WAAS improves the accuracy of the US GPS system but may result in longer sync time if you have poor sky visability, like in the woods with a hand held GPS. On open lake you should have WAAS on.

GLONASS is the Russian equivalent of the US GPS system. Your Garmin can use those satellites to assist in seeing enough satellites to sync quickly and "maybe" at times improve accuracy. It is used in many handheld units and smartphones for a quick location fix. For use on the lake, it could be left on or not. I'll try it both ways near some markers.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

WAAS improves the accuracy of the US GPS system but may result in longer sync time if you have poor sky visability, like in the woods with a hand held GPS. On open lake you should have WAAS on.

GLONASS is the Russian equivalent of the US GPS system. Your Garmin can use those satellites to assist in seeing enough satellites to sync quickly and "maybe" at times improve accuracy. It is used in many handheld units and smartphones for a quick location fix. For use on the lake, it could be left on or not. I'll try it both ways near some markers.

Thanks for the info, Slickcraft. I threw WAAS on and, for the first time, the last red buoy coming past Bryant's Point (towards Greene's Basin)--which was recently moved in, no doubt because of the low levels--actually showed to my left. Certainly much more accurate than when off.

Does anyone know if there's a way to change the location of buoys in GPS systems or if it's only via the maps software?

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[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Does anyone know if there's a way to change the location of buoys in GPS systems or if it's only via the maps software?

Strictly speaking there are no buoys or any other features in the GPS system. The GPS systems only provides your location on the globe. Whatever mapping software or system you use provides the landmarks and other mapped features. Many systems allow you to add waypoints, use custom maps, or do other things. For example, Navionics will allow you to connect your depth finder to your GPS for making real-time maps of the lake bottom. You can also share this data with others for crowd-sourced up-to-date bottom contours.

[thinkxingu]

Raining like crazy here in southern NH--how much could one full day of rain affect the lake level?

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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Raining like crazy here in southern NH--how much could one full day of rain affect the lake level?

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I'm afraid, in the case of our beloved, Winni, not much.
While a decent downpour passed through in the early morning hours, now the Lakes Region is experiencing clouds with possible passing, showers...not raining west of the lake now and radar shows us on the fringe of heavier rain south.
However anything must be better than nothing...

[acg123]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

Just to give you a perspective, Sebago Lake is 40 inches (3.3') below "full pond" as of this morning. We are approaching peak "Prop and Outdrive" season......

BT

Are you sure? Here's the Portland Water District reading:

http://www.pwd.org/lake/level.php?mode=table&year=2016

[Island Girl]

Friday at 5 PM the lake was at 502.78, today at 5 PM it was at 502.79.

The chart on DES' site was moved. I have fixed the link to the new location. Click Here for all sorts of links about the lake. The list at the right of the page will keep you busy for a long time.

Happy Reading
Island Girl