Garden Tractor does not start ?

[bigdog]

Previously did all recommend before masking Post.
I cleaned battery terminal connections, no corrosion...

Tapped on coil, but not starter, will do that next.

How do I 'laid test' battery ?

What is the 'stator'?

Thanks !

[tummyman]

Make sure you have the parking brake fully engaged and the cutting blade control knob is OFF. The safety stuff can cause issues.

[bigdog]

Tummyman...

Parking brake engaged, Cutting blades dis-engaged.
Case you were thinking I disconnected the seat safety switch years ago !

Any other thoughts ?

[VitaBene]

Can you turn the motor by hand? You may me mouse nest bound.

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Any other thoughts ?

Gently taping on the solenoid switch while simultaneously trying to start the tractor with the ignition key is probably your next best thing to try.

Tapping on the ignition coil will do nothing. And more than likely your problem has nothing to do with the stator with regards to getting it started.

Originally Posted by bigdog

When I turn the ignition, I hear a click but that's all ! Repeated attempts have proved the same results.

If you are getting a clicking sound, that is (kinda good) meaning the electrical circuits up to the solenoid is probably functioning properly.

If I had to "guess" without knowing exactly what your tractor has for an engine or its history I would say your battery is to weak to operate the solenoid switch or the solenoid switch is defective. Sounds to me that you are not getting the heavy duty high current (for lack of a better term) from the battery to the starter itself.

There is a way to by-pass the solenoid switch, (for poor mans testing purposes) with good jumper cables or a screwdriver but you have to have a very keen understanding of just what is going to happen when you do something like this.

The link is for a generic google search for "solenoid switch" note the images, you would be looking for something that looks like one of the photos.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...enoid%20switch

Try tapping the solenoid switch (if you can locate it) and turning (and holding) the key in the start position all at the same time. You might need an extra person to help you if the solenoid switch is in an awkward location and prevents you from sitting on the tractor properly to engage the safety features / push on the pedals.

[8gv]

I'm not there and I am also not a lawnmower mechanic but here is the problem:

Your battery is shot.

It has a surface charge which makes your meter happy.

If your charger has a "start" or "jump" option, try it. The mower will start.

My motorcycle battery did the same thing this spring.

I spent a couple of hours and all the verbal lubrication I could muster without a solution. I then headed to WalMart for a new battery. BINGO!

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I'm not there and I am also not a lawnmower mechanic but here is the problem:

Your battery is shot.

It has a surface charge which makes your meter happy.

If your charger has a "start" or "jump" option, try it. The mower will start.

My motorcycle battery did the same thing this spring.

I spent a couple of hours and all the verbal lubrication I could muster without a solution. I then headed to WalMart for a new battery. BINGO!

.

All this is correct too...... to some extent.

14 volts on a meter means nothing. If the battery is more than a few years old, toss it. As mentioned you could waste many hours trying to convince yourself the battery is good. Eliminate it right from the get go as a potential part of the problem. Especially if it might need to be changed soon anyway. If you change the battery and you still have problems then you have to move on the solenoid switch.

[tummyman]

I agree with Top-Water. Get a battery charger....put it on start. May wait a couple of minutes, then try...it may be all you need. It does sound like a battery issue. If no charger, try jumper cables from your car battery.

[nhcatrider]

Originally Posted by tummyman

I agree with Top-Water. Get a battery charger....put it on start. May wait a couple of minutes, then try...it may be all you need. It does sound like a battery issue. If no charger, try jumper cables from your car battery.

Just make sure your car isn't running if you go this route. Car alternators supply far more power than necessary and can damage the charging system on your mower.

[Rusty]

Could be vapor lock. Take the spark plug out and see if it will turn over.

[brk-lnt]

Before you toss the battery, turn the key to "Run" and manually jump the positive terminal of the battery to the positive terminal of the starter motor.

If the engine turns over, the battery is good and you have some kind of solenoid/electrical wiring problem.

If the starter spins and you get slight lunge and then it freezes when the starter gear engages the engine you have a good battery and starter, but a frozen engine (unlikely, IMO).

If the starter doesn't twitch, it's a bad/weak battery, or a bad starter. Hit the starter with the battery charger just to see what happens, that'll narrow it down further.

Should take no more than 5 minutes to get closer to a root cause.

[noreast]

I just put a starter in mine, was doing the exact same thing. Took about 15 minutes. I don't know if you have yet, but definitely buy a battery too.

[bigdog]

OK...

I have a battery charger, but over 25 yrs old, and basically a 'trickle' charger
for 6/12 volts. Was inherited from family. I did initially attach charger to battery for several hours but didn't make any difference in starting...

I attached jumper cables from the tractor to my car, and tried to start.

Nothing ! Same results, juts a click sounds as before.
Will try to find starter, but suspect it's buried under cowling somewhere...

Next steps.... When I find Starter, I'll attach a jumper cable between Starter and Battery, to see if I can get Starter to spin.

Really stranger behavior because I had engine started and running just a few days before?

Oh.. never mentioned the engine type from beginning.....
It's a Brigs & Stratton INTEK OHV 19hp 2 cylinder.

[ITD]

It sounds like you have a volt meter. You need to check to see if current is reaching the starter. Do this by finding the starter, attach the meter to the power lug on the starter and to ground. Turn the key, you should see 12 Volts at the starter. If not, then you have a bad relay or a broken wire, or a safety that is tripped. Sometimes you luck out and there is a wiring diagram you can follow to make sure things are working. Also check your seat bypass. 2 months allows mice to do a lot of damage. I would diagnose the problem before spending money. Coil and spark are not a problem, at least at this point. You need to get the engine spinning first.

[bigdog]

Voltage meter got trashed when it dropped onto concrete... Arg.......

Anyway, one test I didn't do up to now, was one mentioned near top of post by 'VitaBene'.... Try to spin the flywheel ! Simple....

Had to remove 6 screws holding down flywheel cover, then got a big wrench and turned flywheel nut. At first it was extremely difficult to turn the flywheel, then it spun free easy !

I turned a few more times and it did turn hard at one point in the cycle, I suspect when cylinders were going up and down. That first turn was definitely hard turn.

I turned engine off, and then was able to restart again, without issues?

OK, so what's going on here Forum folks, has me stumped?

Thanks again for all your great comments especially to 'VitaBene' !

[ITD]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Voltage meter got trashed when it dropped onto concrete... Arg.......

Anyway, one test I didn't do up to now, was one mentioned near top of post by 'VitaBene'.... Try to spin the flywheel ! Simple....

Had to remove 6 screws holding down flywheel cover, then got a big wrench and turned flywheel nut. At first it was extremely difficult to turn the flywheel, then it spun free easy !

I turned a few more times and it did turn hard at one point in the cycle, I suspect when cylinders were going up and down. That first turn was definitely hard turn.

I turned engine off, and then was able to restart again, without issues?

OK, so what's going on here Forum folks, has me stumped?

Thanks again for all your great comments especially to 'VitaBene' !

Button it up and run it, good job. Is it stored outside? Things could have rusted up.

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by bigdog

That first turn was definitely hard turn.

I turned engine off, and then was able to restart again, without issues?

OK, so what's going on here Forum folks, has me stumped?

Thanks again for all your great comments especially to 'VitaBene' !

Check your oil level before you go on. Takes just a few seconds. If it was locked up you might have pure gas making its way into the crankcase and combustion chamber, or water getting past the air filter if its stored outside.
But we have not had much rain so I doubt that is a problem

If the oil level is (high / above normal) then you might have a problem with the carburetor float. (I've had this problem once myself on a garden tractor)

Well at least you know it starts.


Did it smoke a lot when you got it started?

[bigdog]

FYI... Engine has NEVER smoked !

Tractor has been stored outside, but only for last month but 'had it covered' ! I've always stored in shed since I purchased 18 yrs ago. Ways kept up mechanically....

I check oil before starting each time, change oil & filter annually, ALWAYS use Sta-Bil in gas. For that matter use Sta-Bill in all small engines.

Grass will be ready to be cut in a few days, will report back if issues resurface.

Thanks again

[noreast]

Those engines are bullet proof, the way you take care of that you'll get 18 more years out of it.

[8gv]

With nothing to lose...

I'm sticking with a weak battery as part of the problem.

Whatever caused binding in the cylinders (gas, oil, mouse nest) was too much for the weak battery.

As Top-Water has stated above...

Hydrolock occurs when gas leaks into the cylinder.

Some mowers have a valve that keeps the gas from flowing until the key is turned on. This helps when the mower is bouncing along on a trailer. If this valve is shot and the float leaks or is stuck open, you can put enough gas into the cylinder to cause a lot of trouble. The best one could hope for is the engine won't turn. Under the right conditions, (strong battery, strong starter, piston positioned just so), damage can be done by the piston compressing what cannot be compressed.

One way of knowing if gas leaked into the cylinder is to check the quantity and quality of the crankcase oil. If you gained oil, it's likely contaminated with gas.

[dpg]

A few weeks ago I started blowing white smoke like crazy on a Toro rider and the engine soon cut out. I thought I seized the engine, called a dealer and they said it sounded like a head gasket which does go on those things. Come to find out the carb had clogged up with crap and the gas blew past it and entered the oil causing the smoking. A good "tune-up" and carburetor rebuild/cleanout solved the problem got the machine back and it's running great. Everything they did and changed was around 350 bucks I believe worth it to me to keep the mower running for now.

[bigdog]

Like i stated I use Stabile in all gas for small engines.

I also out a little 'Gumout' gas treatment or SeaFoam into the gas can.....
Engine seems to run better, and this will prevent carbs clogging,
at least it's worked for me for years.

Has anyone used Marvel Mystery Oil in their gas, would be interesting hearing feedback on this product. I hear you can use in both gas an oil.
Many folks swear by this product, as it's been around for years !

[camp guy]

In the mid-1970's, I worked at Great Bay Marine (Newington, NH), and during the haul-out and winterization period we used Marvel Mystery Oil on EVERY engine, generally to 'fog it out' and get the oil into the cylinders, and then put some in the fuel tank.

If my memory serves me correctly, we probably used at least two or three 55-gallon drums of Marvel Mystery Oil each fall. As a matter of fact, I still have a small can of it in my garage shop right now.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Voltage meter got trashed when it dropped onto concrete... Arg.......

Anyway, one test I didn't do up to now, was one mentioned near top of post by 'VitaBene'.... Try to spin the flywheel ! Simple....

Had to remove 6 screws holding down flywheel cover, then got a big wrench and turned flywheel nut. At first it was extremely difficult to turn the flywheel, then it spun free easy !

I turned a few more times and it did turn hard at one point in the cycle, I suspect when cylinders were going up and down. That first turn was definitely hard turn.

I turned engine off, and then was able to restart again, without issues?

OK, so what's going on here Forum folks, has me stumped?

Thanks again for all your great comments especially to 'VitaBene' !

As others have mentioned, this sounds precisely like a hydro-lock condition and if so, you have two problems:

1. The electric fuel shut off valve is leaking. This valve is normally closed and only opens when voltage is applied. It is the only electrical device that is attached to your carburetor. You can find it on the bottom.

2. The float valve is leaking.

Fresh/treated fuel may cure both of these problems. In the mean time, there are two things you can do to prevent major engine failure:

1. Keep the fuel level in the tank lower than the top of the carburetor fuel bowl to prevent gravity from filling the fuel bowl when the engine is off (assuming it's a V-twin, your engine has a crankcase-pressure-pulse operated fuel pump on the right side cylinder that will fill the bowl when the engine is running even if the tank is low.).

2. Always crank the engine over a few revolutions before engaging the choke to keep it from firing until you are sure it is not hydro-locked. The starter does not have enough power to do any damage to a hydro-locked engine, but if one cylinder fires and the other is hydro-locked, it will bend a connecting rod. I do this every time I start my motorcycle. This is very similar to the technique used to start a radial aircraft engine. They always crank them over for 3+ full revolutions before turning the magnetos on to clear any oil out of the bottom cylinders. Hollywood uses this for dramatic effect trying to make the audience think the engine is struggling to start.