Garden Tractor does not start ?

songkrai · 09-22-2016, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

My garden tractor will not start ?

What is the brand name? Model Number?
How old is this machine?

bigdog · 09-22-2016, 10:18 PM

Tractor is about 2001 vintage
Brand is Scotts was sold by either Home Depot or Lowes

Actually the tractor was made for Scotts by Murray Corp.
Has been a good workhorse and extremely dependable over the years with very few issues.

Also own a Murray 5hp B&S self-propelled mower over 20 yrs old.

For the price and value I couldn't ask for more. Hope to have this for many more years.

Woody38 · 09-24-2016, 03:51 PM

I have a John Deere lawn tractor 300X 8 years old. Sometimes the tractor will not start so I put on the charger start position. OK. When shutting down during mowing the tractor starts fine except for once this summer. Battery is the original and I usually put it on charger prior to mowing for a short period.
I probably should get a new battery and will when this process doesn't work anymore.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

bigdog · 09-26-2016, 10:44 AM

Think I spoke too soon !

Mowed the lawn now with no problems starting.... Covered tractor for last 2 days outside.

Today, I went to start tractor and it won't start again ?
Now, it makes a clicking sound, with a whining noise like its coming from the starter, but the starter is not actually turning.

Thoughts ?

Rusty · 09-26-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

Think I spoke too soon !

Mowed the lawn now with no problems starting.... Covered tractor for last 2 days outside.

Today, I went to start tractor and it won't start again ?
Now, it makes a clicking sound, with a whining noise like its coming from the starter, but the starter is not actually turning.

Thoughts ?

I think it could be hydro lock. Take the spark plug out and see if it turns over.

SIKSUKR · 09-26-2016, 01:36 PM

2 things. Could be the starter solenoid but it should be open or closed and I dont think it be a whining sound. Also, it sounds like the starter might be turning but not engaging. Could be teeth missing form the flywheel or the gear on the starter is not getting "thrown out" away from its stopped (retracted)position.
A simple ex. here:When you turn the ignition switch, the starter motor is energized, and the electromagnet inside the body engages. This pushes out a rod to which the pinion gear is attached. The gear meets the flywheel, and the starter turns.

So the starter may be turning but the pinion gear might not be always extending.

noreast · 09-26-2016, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

2 things. Could be the starter solenoid but it should be open or closed and I dont think it be a whining sound. Also, it sounds like the starter might be turning but not engaging. Could be teeth missing form the flywheel or the gear on the starter is not getting "thrown out" away from its stopped (retracted)position.
A simple ex. here:When you turn the ignition switch, the starter motor is energized, and the electromagnet inside the body engages. This pushes out a rod to which the pinion gear is attached. The gear meets the flywheel, and the starter turns.

So the starter may be turning but the pinion gear might not be always extending.

Excellent description, good job!

CP659 · 09-27-2016, 11:39 AM

I'm thinking that engine probably has a compression release for easier starting. At very low RPM (starting) it would open the exhaust valve just slightly on the compression stroke so the engine turns over easier at startup. I've run into this before on a Generator. Assuming it's an overhead valve (OHV) motor, you would look for the (probably silver) valve cover. It should be easy to remove and I was able to reuse the gasket as there's not a lot of oil pressure there. With the valve cover off, you'd see the rocker arms and where they engage the valves. With the spark plug out, turn the engine over slowly with a wrench. You should see the rocker arm for just the exhaust valve move slightly on the compression stroke. If the arm is moving, but not actually engaging / moving the valve then the arm probably needs adjustment. You'd need to look up the valve specs and set it with a feeler gauge, but it's really pretty easy to do and you should be able to adjust it right at the rocker arm.
I had a generator that used to be really hard to pull at startup and this was the problem.. Unfortunately I broke a couple pull starts before I worked that one out

Good luck!!!

JADAQ · 10-01-2016, 08:17 PM

Just curious, how did you get 14 volts on a 12 volt system if the engine wasn't running??

tummyman · 10-02-2016, 01:53 PM

I am blowing a lot of gas out my exhaust when I try and start. It is a Koehler engine. Any thoughts...????

HomeWood · 10-05-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tummyman

I am blowing a lot of gas out my exhaust when I try and start. It is a Koehler engine. Any thoughts...????

Float stuck open or needle and seat are worn. The 14hp Kohler on my 48" commercial mower does that if I don't clamp off the fuel line. The shut off valve does not completely shut off the gas flow, so I use small vice grips on the line. The engine would even hydro-lock with gas, if it sat long enough. It runs fine but I'll need to change the needle and seat at some point. Just add it to the list of projects!

bigdog · 10-06-2016, 08:53 AM

Well..... I have the final report regarding my tractor issue not starting.
Took me a while and a little thinking but finally got to the bottom of this !

Four letters, one word "M-I-C-E" !

I removed the top cowling that covers the entire engine. Not only did I find a lot of mouse remnants of cloth material (probably from building nests),
but also found two severed electrical wires, which were disconnected from what I think may be a coil ?

One of the spark plugs wires that come off the plug, connects to coil, then has two 14 gauge wires that connect to someplace in engine, exactly where I could not see where it led ? Is this a coil, because it looked like it was wrapped with cooper wire.

Also, I removed long piece of cloth material from what looked like a gear, that I suspect is tied to the starter assembly. This long piece of material
(actually looked like a 4" piece of rope) was wrapped around the gear, preventing it from rotating. I noticed when I attempted to start the engine that gear would spin, I suspect it turns something within the engine ? What is this gear, and is my description correct?

Anyway, removed all cloth fiber mouse remnants, patched the 2 broken wires together. Long story, engine started immediately !

Lessons learned, think simple !

ursa minor · 10-06-2016, 09:22 PM

Good detective work. You may want to find a way to toss some moth balls under your storage cover to discourage them from coming back. I've had them nest in a couple of my small equipment engines too, it's pretty common.

bigdog · 10-07-2016, 12:21 PM

Thanks Ursa MInor for suggesting to use moth balls under storage cover to deter the vermin critters
I've personally been using 'dry sheets' for years for same purpose and has not failed me yet.

This time around I failed my due-diligence and just forgot to do !
Note to self !

I have a convertible 'summer car', and when I store for the winter, place a dozen dryer sheets over the engine, tail pipe, and any other areas of access that mice can enter. My sister-in-law had an issue with her car with mice damage to electrical system that cost her over $1,000 in repairs ! Lessons learned !

HomeWood · 10-07-2016, 12:29 PM

I had a fan cooled Arctic Cat sled years ago. The motor suddenly overheated and cooked a piston one day. Mouse house was built around one of the jugs under the engine cover. I did not know it was there until I started the tear down. I hate mice!

ursa minor · 10-07-2016, 04:24 PM

I think I like your dryer sheet idea better! They definitely smell better than the moth balls. I'll put some under the hood and elsewhere when I put our "fun car" under cover in the garage this winter, great suggestion.

chipj29 · 10-10-2016, 09:54 AM

I used dryer sheets in one of my snowmobiles a few years back. The mice used those dryer sheets to build their nest. So the dryer sheets may not always work.

tummyman · 10-10-2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeWood

Float stuck open or needle and seat are worn. The 14hp Kohler on my 48" commercial mower does that if I don't clamp off the fuel line. The shut off valve does not completely shut off the gas flow, so I use small vice grips on the line. The engine would even hydro-lock with gas, if it sat long enough. It runs fine but I'll need to change the needle and seat at some point. Just add it to the list of projects!

My engine did not have a fuel shutoff valve. Ordered one on Ebay for $6. Installed it last week. Results after a few days being idle....perfect....no more raw gas coming out of exhaust. Thank you for a great and simple suggestion. It really worked very well!!!!!!

HomeWood · 10-11-2016, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tummyman

My engine did not have a fuel shutoff valve. Ordered one on Ebay for $6. Installed it last week. Results after a few days being idle....perfect....no more raw gas coming out of exhaust. Thank you for a great and simple suggestion. It really worked very well!!!!!!

Excellent! Glad I could help.

brk-lnt · 09-26-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

Think I spoke too soon !

Mowed the lawn now with no problems starting.... Covered tractor for last 2 days outside.

Today, I went to start tractor and it won't start again ?
Now, it makes a clicking sound, with a whining noise like its coming from the starter, but the starter is not actually turning.

Thoughts ?

This sounds like a bad/weak battery or bad connection causing high resistance.

The clicking sound is the starter solenoid. Basically when you turn the key, the solenoid engages, and then power goes to the starter. Current draw of the starter causes the voltage to drop below the level that will engage the solenoid, which causes the solenoid to cut out. A second later the battery has enough voltage to re-engage the solenoid and the process starts over.

bigdog · 09-26-2016, 05:52 PM

Thanks Brk-Int.....

Going to try to jump start off car battery again....

If that doesn't work, then guessing must be Solenoid or Starter motor.
If jumping off car battery works will get new battery.

FYI, battery is only a little over 1 yr old, and I think only had a 1 yr warranty.
Battery is a 'EverStart' battery purchased at Wal-Mart.

09-26-2016, 01:36 PM	#6
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	2 things. Could be the starter solenoid but it should be open or closed and I dont think it be a whining sound. Also, it sounds like the starter might be turning but not engaging. Could be teeth missing form the flywheel or the gear on the starter is not getting "thrown out" away from its stopped (retracted)position. A simple ex. here:When you turn the ignition switch, the starter motor is energized, and the electromagnet inside the body engages. This pushes out a rod to which the pinion gear is attached. The gear meets the flywheel, and the starter turns. So the starter may be turning but the pinion gear might not be always extending. __________________ SIKSUKR

09-27-2016, 11:39 AM	#8
CP659 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Compression release / exhaust valve adjustment I'm thinking that engine probably has a compression release for easier starting. At very low RPM (starting) it would open the exhaust valve just slightly on the compression stroke so the engine turns over easier at startup. I've run into this before on a Generator. Assuming it's an overhead valve (OHV) motor, you would look for the (probably silver) valve cover. It should be easy to remove and I was able to reuse the gasket as there's not a lot of oil pressure there. With the valve cover off, you'd see the rocker arms and where they engage the valves. With the spark plug out, turn the engine over slowly with a wrench. You should see the rocker arm for just the exhaust valve move slightly on the compression stroke. If the arm is moving, but not actually engaging / moving the valve then the arm probably needs adjustment. You'd need to look up the valve specs and set it with a feeler gauge, but it's really pretty easy to do and you should be able to adjust it right at the rocker arm. I had a generator that used to be really hard to pull at startup and this was the problem.. Unfortunately I broke a couple pull starts before I worked that one out Good luck!!!

10-06-2016, 08:53 AM	#12
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 345 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Garden Tractor does not start ? Well..... I have the final report regarding my tractor issue not starting. Took me a while and a little thinking but finally got to the bottom of this ! Four letters, one word "M-I-C-E" ! I removed the top cowling that covers the entire engine. Not only did I find a lot of mouse remnants of cloth material (probably from building nests), but also found two severed electrical wires, which were disconnected from what I think may be a coil ? One of the spark plugs wires that come off the plug, connects to coil, then has two 14 gauge wires that connect to someplace in engine, exactly where I could not see where it led ? Is this a coil, because it looked like it was wrapped with cooper wire. Also, I removed long piece of cloth material from what looked like a gear, that I suspect is tied to the starter assembly. This long piece of material (actually looked like a 4" piece of rope) was wrapped around the gear, preventing it from rotating. I noticed when I attempted to start the engine that gear would spin, I suspect it turns something within the engine ? What is this gear, and is my description correct? Anyway, removed all cloth fiber mouse remnants, patched the 2 broken wires together. Long story, engine started immediately ! Lessons learned, think simple !

10-06-2016, 09:22 PM	#13
ursa minor Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tuftonborough & Franklin MA Posts: 265 Thanks: 99 Thanked 143 Times in 64 Posts	Good detective work. You may want to find a way to toss some moth balls under your storage cover to discourage them from coming back. I've had them nest in a couple of my small equipment engines too, it's pretty common. __________________ " Any day with a boat ride in it is a good day"

10-07-2016, 04:24 PM	#16
ursa minor Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tuftonborough & Franklin MA Posts: 265 Thanks: 99 Thanked 143 Times in 64 Posts	I think I like your dryer sheet idea better! They definitely smell better than the moth balls. I'll put some under the hood and elsewhere when I put our "fun car" under cover in the garage this winter, great suggestion. __________________ " Any day with a boat ride in it is a good day"

09-22-2016, 10:18 PM	#2
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 345 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Tractor is about 2001 vintage Brand is Scotts was sold by either Home Depot or Lowes Actually the tractor was made for Scotts by Murray Corp. Has been a good workhorse and extremely dependable over the years with very few issues. Also own a Murray 5hp B&S self-propelled mower over 20 yrs old. For the price and value I couldn't ask for more. Hope to have this for many more years.

The Following User Says Thank You to bigdog For This Useful Post:
SteveO123 (10-28-2016)

09-24-2016, 03:51 PM	#3
Woody38 Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 578 Thanks: 46 Thanked 110 Times in 81 Posts	I have a John Deere lawn tractor 300X 8 years old. Sometimes the tractor will not start so I put on the charger start position. OK. When shutting down during mowing the tractor starts fine except for once this summer. Battery is the original and I usually put it on charger prior to mowing for a short period. I probably should get a new battery and will when this process doesn't work anymore. I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

09-26-2016, 10:44 AM	#4
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 345 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Think I spoke too soon ! Mowed the lawn now with no problems starting.... Covered tractor for last 2 days outside. Today, I went to start tractor and it won't start again ? Now, it makes a clicking sound, with a whining noise like its coming from the starter, but the starter is not actually turning. Thoughts ?

10-01-2016, 08:17 PM	#9
JADAQ Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 198 Thanks: 4 Thanked 66 Times in 43 Posts	Just curious, how did you get 14 volts on a 12 volt system if the engine wasn't running??

10-02-2016, 01:53 PM	#10
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 842 Thanks: 259 Thanked 687 Times in 244 Posts	I am blowing a lot of gas out my exhaust when I try and start. It is a Koehler engine. Any thoughts...????

The Following User Says Thank You to HomeWood For This Useful Post:
tummyman (10-06-2016)

10-07-2016, 12:21 PM	#14
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 345 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Thanks Ursa MInor for suggesting to use moth balls under storage cover to deter the vermin critters I've personally been using 'dry sheets' for years for same purpose and has not failed me yet. This time around I failed my due-diligence and just forgot to do ! Note to self ! I have a convertible 'summer car', and when I store for the winter, place a dozen dryer sheets over the engine, tail pipe, and any other areas of access that mice can enter. My sister-in-law had an issue with her car with mice damage to electrical system that cost her over $1,000 in repairs ! Lessons learned !

The Following User Says Thank You to bigdog For This Useful Post:
ursa minor (10-07-2016)

10-07-2016, 12:29 PM	#15
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	I had a fan cooled Arctic Cat sled years ago. The motor suddenly overheated and cooked a piston one day. Mouse house was built around one of the jugs under the engine cover. I did not know it was there until I started the tear down. I hate mice!

The Following User Says Thank You to HomeWood For This Useful Post:
bigdog (10-07-2016)

10-10-2016, 09:54 AM	#17
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	I used dryer sheets in one of my snowmobiles a few years back. The mice used those dryer sheets to build their nest. So the dryer sheets may not always work. __________________ Getting ready for winter!

The Following User Says Thank You to tummyman For This Useful Post:
HomeWood (10-11-2016)

The Following User Says Thank You to HomeWood For This Useful Post:
tummyman (10-11-2016)

09-26-2016, 05:52 PM	#21
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 345 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Thanks Brk-Int..... Going to try to jump start off car battery again.... If that doesn't work, then guessing must be Solenoid or Starter motor. If jumping off car battery works will get new battery. FYI, battery is only a little over 1 yr old, and I think only had a 1 yr warranty. Battery is a 'EverStart' battery purchased at Wal-Mart.