Moultonborough Taxes

[LIforrelaxin]

So this weekend I recieved the Tax bill... it was a nice surprised to see that our taxes have gone done... don't know why don't know how.... but less money in Taxes can't be a bad thing....

However I also noted, that the Tax bill seemed to be early this year... with the payment requested by the beginning on of December, instead of the end of December .... Any one else noting this? or have an idea why?

[Descant]

Same thing in Gilford. Taxes went down a little (for me) and the bill is out a little early as far as I can tell.

[Pine Island Guy]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

So this weekend I recieved the Tax bill... it was a nice surprised to see that our taxes have gone done... don't know why don't know how.... but less money in Taxes can't be a bad thing....

However I also noted, that the Tax bill seemed to be early this year... with the payment requested by the beginning on of December, instead of the end of December .... Any one else noting this? or have an idea why?

Good news your taxes went down... Meredith ticked up slightly...

I believe for most towns in NH that the 2nd half bill has always been due in early December... sometimes when there is a delay it is due to a town wide reassessment where they can't get the bills out in time (I believe they have to be out 30 days before they are due)...

What a gorgeous day on the lake today!!! -PIG

[ITD]

So it's nice your tax bill went down, but it was probably due to valuation changes and someone else's bill probably went up (mine) and without looking it up, I'm willing to bet all in all taxes went up this year over last year (Moultonboro). Enjoy your luck.

[phoenix]

My valuation went up also

[DesertDweller]

Yes, the tax rate is down but my assessed value went up about 8 percent which resulted in a net increase for me.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

Good news your taxes went down... Meredith ticked up slightly...

I believe for most towns in NH that the 2nd half bill has always been due in early December... sometimes when there is a delay it is due to a town wide reassessment where they can't get the bills out in time (I believe they have to be out 30 days before they are due)...

What a gorgeous day on the lake today!!! -PIG

Tuftonboro tax bills also are due on December 2nd this year. The last couple of years the payment was due at the end of December. Not sure why.

[Descant]

25 (?) years ago, people really paid attention to their taxes and voted accordingly at the March Town meeting. Now, if you have a mortgage, the lender requires that taxes be escrowed and you get an escrow adjustment in February or March. A few dollars a month, and we tend to blame the bank instead of the voters who increased the town budget.
On the other hand, kudos to the Moultonboro voters who continue to support funding for Milfoiul control which helps the entire lake, along with support from other towns and civic groups. PLUS the big funding provided by boat registration fees.

[upthesaukee]

I believe that the timing on when the state portion of the tax bill is what determines when the tax bill gets mailed. Seems there was an article on this in the Baysider in Alton a year or so ago. When the state is late getting the info to the local authorities, the bills come out late. When they are on time, or perhaps more correctly early, the bills come out early. Up side to being early: Now you can tell everyone that they ain't gettin' nuttin' for Christmas cuz it all went to taxes!

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[CAVU]

Net increase for me too, valuation went up. My property taxes have increased $437 the last two years. That is a +-29% increase in property taxes in the last two years.

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by CAVU

Net increase for me too, valuation went up. My property taxes have increased $437 the last two years. That is a +-29% increase in property taxes in the last two years.

So your taxes are only like $1200 a year?

[neckdweller]

Lakefront owner and my taxes went down a couple hundred dollars. From this link it says the tax rate went down about 3% (9.01 to 8.74) but values went up 4%. Those seeing increases - are you lakefront or off lake?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by neckdweller

Lakefront owner and my taxes went down a couple hundred dollars. From this link it says the tax rate went down about 3% (9.01 to 8.74) but values went up 4%. Those seeing increases - are you lakefront or off lake?

Lakefront here.

[DesertDweller]

Originally Posted by neckdweller

Lakefront owner and my taxes went down a couple hundred dollars. From this link it says the tax rate went down about 3% (9.01 to 8.74) but values went up 4%. Those seeing increases - are you lakefront or off lake?

Water access community

[ITD]

Originally Posted by neckdweller

Lakefront owner and my taxes went down a couple hundred dollars. From this link it says the tax rate went down about 3% (9.01 to 8.74) but values went up 4%. Those seeing increases - are you lakefront or off lake?

So I just read that link, thanks for providing it. But I'm a little tweaked by the comment by the selectman. The tax rate is essentially meaningless since the advent of revaluations. Valuation is set by supposedly fair market assessments of everyone's property value. The levy is the amount of money to be collected by the town's and in the case of NH, the state. This levy is fixed and is increased every year, set by politicians at the state level and usually town meeting at the town level, but heavily influenced by town politicians. The tax rate is a variable number based on the levy and the overall valuation of ALL the property in a town. The tax rate can go up and it can go down, but the levy ALWAYS goes up, meaning taxes ALWAYS increase. There are very few exceptions to this rule. So a politician talking about the tax rate going down is either disingenuous or doesn't know what he is talking about. Politicians love to blame increased property tax on increasing property valuation. That is not true, taxes go up because politicians spend more money, that is the only reason.

If your tax bill went down, it is because your property value was not increased as much as your neighbor's. There are many reasons for this, one could be that you have been paying too much in tax since the last valuation, another is that some material change happened to the value of your property, or maybe this is just your lucky year. But based on the link provided, more people's tax bill increased than decreased.

[neckdweller]

Originally Posted by ITD

So I just read that link, thanks for providing it. But I'm a little tweaked by the comment by the selectman. The tax rate is essentially meaningless since the advent of revaluations. Valuation is set by supposedly fair market assessments of everyone's property value. The levy is the amount of money to be collected by the town's and in the case of NH, the state. This levy is fixed and is increased every year, set by politicians at the state level and usually town meeting at the town level, but heavily influenced by town politicians. The tax rate is a variable number based on the levy and the overall valuation of ALL the property in a town. The tax rate can go up and it can go down, but the levy ALWAYS goes up, meaning taxes ALWAYS increase. There are very few exceptions to this rule. So a politician talking about the tax rate going down is either disingenuous or doesn't know what he is talking about. Politicians love to blame increased property tax on increasing property valuation. That is not true, taxes go up because politicians spend more money, that is the only reason.

If your tax bill went down, it is because your property value was not increased as much as your neighbor's. There are many reasons for this, one could be that you have been paying too much in tax since the last valuation, another is that some material change happened to the value of your property, or maybe this is just your lucky year. But based on the link provided, more people's tax bill increased than decreased.

The always popular refrain in Moultonborough of "look at your tax rate" has always struck a nerve. Congratulations, you've got a $2.7 billion assessed value with 4K year round residents. If you can't keep your tax rate low you've got an issue.

[longislander]

The tax rate is comprised of 4 elements: Town, school, county, and state education.

At the local level, the taxpayers have a say in the Town and school, via a vote at Town meeting. The taxpayers don't really have a personal say in the county and state ed., other than participating in voting for/against the officials. They are all politicians of some sort.

Town meeting day (usually two days ... ballot and town meeting) is the only day we're a democracy. More accurately, town meeting is a democratic process, where majority rules. Another example of a democracy is a lynch mob, where majority rules.

We are a Republic otherwise, in fact. Major difference, although folks seem to think they are synonymous terms. They are not!

There is opportunity to challenge assessments; at least an opportunity ... even if not satisfying.

Then, the math is simple: tax rate/thousand X valuation $'s = tax

MoBo tax history:

http://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/tax-...x-rate-history

NHDRA Municipal valuations:

http://revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/munic...inal-rates.pdf

http://revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/munic...-tax-rates.htm

[ITD]

Originally Posted by longislander

The tax rate is comprised of 4 elements: Town, school, county, and state education.

At the local level, the taxpayers have a say in the Town and school, via a vote at Town meeting. The taxpayers don't really have a personal say in the county and state ed., other than participating in voting for/against the officials. They are all politicians of some sort.

Town meeting day (usually two days ... ballot and town meeting) is the only day we're a democracy. More accurately, town meeting is a democratic process, where majority rules. Another example of a democracy is a lynch mob, where majority rules.

We are a Republic otherwise, in fact. Major difference, although folks seem to think they are synonymous terms. They are not!

There is opportunity to challenge assessments; at least an opportunity ... even if not satisfying.

Then, the math is simple: tax rate/thousand X valuation $'s = tax

MoBo tax history:

http://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/tax-...x-rate-history

NHDRA Municipal valuations:

http://revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/munic...inal-rates.pdf

http://revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/munic...-tax-rates.htm

So we agree?

[longislander]

So we agree?

On the ultimate result, not on the commentary.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ITD

So I just read that link, thanks for providing it. But I'm a little tweaked by the comment by the selectman. The tax rate is essentially meaningless since the advent of revaluations. Valuation is set by supposedly fair market assessments of everyone's property value. The levy is the amount of money to be collected by the town's and in the case of NH, the state. This levy is fixed and is increased every year, set by politicians at the state level and usually town meeting at the town level, but heavily influenced by town politicians. The tax rate is a variable number based on the levy and the overall valuation of ALL the property in a town. The tax rate can go up and it can go down, but the levy ALWAYS goes up, meaning taxes ALWAYS increase. There are very few exceptions to this rule. So a politician talking about the tax rate going down is either disingenuous or doesn't know what he is talking about. Politicians love to blame increased property tax on increasing property valuation. That is not true, taxes go up because politicians spend more money, that is the only reason.

If your tax bill went down, it is because your property value was not increased as much as your neighbor's. There are many reasons for this, one could be that you have been paying too much in tax since the last valuation, another is that some material change happened to the value of your property, or maybe this is just your lucky year. But based on the link provided, more people's tax bill increased than decreased.

You seem to be suggesting that there is something wrong with tax collections (not tax rates, but actual dollars collected) increasing each year. Actually, the opposite is true--there would be something strange if tax collections did not increase. Governments are affected by inflation in the same way it hits the rest of the economy. Teachers, policemen, road crews and other people need to be paid each year, and those salaries and benefits need to rise just to keep those folks at the same level.

From your signature it looks like you're lucky enough to enjoy the lake as a second home--a luxury few government employees can afford. So maybe a few extra dollars a year isn't so bad?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by longislander

On the ultimate result, not on the commentary.

Yes that's what I thought, I couldn't really understand what your meaning was. My point is that except for the state and county portion, the town tax rate is meaningless in that changes due to adjustments in valuation do not lower your tax as a rule. The amount of tax is decided at town meeting (Moultonboro), the tax rate is calculated from this total levy divided by the total town valuation, giving the town portion tax rate. The the state and county are added to that number.

Bottom line, increasing property values ( note the plural here) do not increase your real estate taxes.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by PeterG

You seem to be suggesting that there is something wrong with tax collections (not tax rates, but actual dollars collected) increasing each year. Actually, the opposite is true--there would be something strange if tax collections did not increase. Governments are affected by inflation in the same way it hits the rest of the economy. Teachers, policemen, road crews and other people need to be paid each year, and those salaries and benefits need to rise just to keep those folks at the same level.

From your signature it looks like you're lucky enough to enjoy the lake as a second home--a luxury few government employees can afford. So maybe a few extra dollars a year isn't so bad?

Ah, no, actually I didn't suggest that at all. You are welcome to start another side thread on that if you like, but don't put words in my mouth.

[longislander]

Yes that's what I thought, I couldn't really understand what your meaning was. My point is that except for the state and county portion, the town tax rate is meaningless in that changes due to adjustments in valuation do not lower your tax as a rule. The amount of tax is decided at town meeting (Moultonboro), the tax rate is calculated from this total levy divided by the total town valuation, giving the town portion tax rate. The the state and county are added to that number.

Bottom line, increasing property values ( note the plural here) do not increase your real estate taxes.

The MoBo tax rate is not meaningless, if you comprehend the efforts to reduce expenses, performed by the Town Administrator, and the some degree, the Select Board. Not to mention, some of us town residents that attend budget meetings and BoS meetings. Some of us actually understand the legal difference between an Advisory Budget Committee and an Official Budget Committee, and lobby for the latter. Some of us recognize a reduction in town expense, reflects in less tax rate.

You seem to be very confused how a tax, not a rate, is determined.

Bottom line, increasing property values ( note the plural here) do not increase your real estate taxes.

Mathematical nonsense!

Increasing property values, plural, multiplied by a a static tax rate will increase taxes. Static or lower property values, plural, multiplied by a higher tax rate will increase taxes.

Property values, might reflect market value ... MIGHT, but is more than likely lower than market value. The assessment values are done periodically ... not looking at a real estate flyer.

I couldn't really understand what your meaning was.

Understandable! God might be able help!

You don't have to TRY to explain how the tax rate is determined. It is self-explanatory.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by longislander

The MoBo tax rate is not meaningless, if you comprehend the efforts to reduce expenses, performed by the Town Administrator, and the some degree, the Select Board. Not to mention, some of us town residents that attend budget meetings and BoS meetings. Some of us actually understand the legal difference between an Advisory Budget Committee and an Official Budget Committee, and lobby for the latter. Some of us recognize a reduction in town expense, reflects in less tax rate.

You seem to be very confused how a tax, not a rate, is determined.




Mathematical nonsense!

Increasing property values, plural, multiplied by a a static tax rate will increase taxes. Static or lower property values, plural, multiplied by a higher tax rate will increase taxes.

Property values, might reflect market value ... MIGHT, but is more than likely lower than market value. The assessment values are done periodically ... not looking at a real estate flyer.



Understandable! God might be able help!

You don't have to TRY to explain how the tax rate is determined. It is self-explanatory.

I'm not confused, you are, it's too late tonight, reread my posts, maybe I'll try again tomorrow.

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by PeterG

You seem to be suggesting that there is something wrong with tax collections (not tax rates, but actual dollars collected) increasing each year. Actually, the opposite is true--there would be something strange if tax collections did not increase. Governments are affected by inflation in the same way it hits the rest of the economy. Teachers, policemen, road crews and other people need to be paid each year, and those salaries and benefits need to rise just to keep those folks at the same level.

From your signature it looks like you're lucky enough to enjoy the lake as a second home--a luxury few government employees can afford. So maybe a few extra dollars a year isn't so bad?

You sound like Bernie Sanders with that last line.

[longislander]

I'm not confused, you are, it's too late tonight, reread my posts, maybe I'll try again tomorrow.

Save it. Your message is understood.


On a lighter note:

You sound like Bernie Sanders with that last line.

Bernie bought a summer home on Lake Champlain, after dropping out of the race.
Government work might not be so bad!

[wifi]

LOL on all the above.

ALL dollars matter, in some way.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by PeterG

You seem to be suggesting that there is something wrong with tax collections (not tax rates, but actual dollars collected) increasing each year. Actually, the opposite is true--there would be something strange if tax collections did not increase.

What happened to the promises to cut "waste, fraud, and abuse" that all have promised to do?

One small example.

In my town, the dump manager would drive to town hall every Friday to obtain the pay checks for the dump employees. Did this for decades.
Then he found out that others in town departments were putting in for mileage for everything and anything they did relating to the town.

So the dump manager put in for the mileage it took to drive to the town hall every Friday to collect the pay checks for the town dump workers.

Oh, my God. The HORROR.
How dare that dump manager ask for mileage. No way. Disgusting. Absurd.
So the dump manager stopped driving to town hall every Friday to get the pay checks. Now, another person from the town hall had to drive to the dump and delivery the pay checks. That person also put in for mileage. The selectmen were livid.

So . . . . to solve this mileage problem - the town purchased a $35,000 Ford F250 pickup truck and sent it to the dump as on official vehicle. The dump never had a pickup truck and the dump does not need a pickup truck and the dump never uses the pickup truck. Except to pick up the pay checks.

But that mileage payment problem is solved.

Yep, those selectmen are going to cut "waste, fraud, and abuse" alright !

What a joke !

[longislander]

Probably they never heard of direct deposit, either.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by songkrai

What happened to the promises to cut "waste, fraud, and abuse" that all have promised to do?

One small example.

In my town, the dump manager would drive to town hall every Friday to obtain the pay checks for the dump employees. Did this for decades.
Then he found out that others in town departments were putting in for mileage for everything and anything they did relating to the town.

So the dump manager put in for the mileage it took to drive to the town hall every Friday to collect the pay checks for the town dump workers.

Oh, my God. The HORROR.
How dare that dump manager ask for mileage. No way. Disgusting. Absurd.
So the dump manager stopped driving to town hall every Friday to get the pay checks. Now, another person from the town hall had to drive to the dump and delivery the pay checks. That person also put in for mileage. The selectmen were livid.

So . . . . to solve this mileage problem - the town purchased a $35,000 Ford F250 pickup truck and sent it to the dump as on official vehicle. The dump never had a pickup truck and the dump does not need a pickup truck and the dump never uses the pickup truck. Except to pick up the pay checks.

But that mileage payment problem is solved.

Yep, those selectmen are going to cut "waste, fraud, and abuse" alright !

What a joke !

I did not say there was no waste--I'm sure there is in every town. It's just that even if the waste is cut, every government still faces upward pressure on wages and other expenses.

Your story is interesting and good for a chuckle. I do not doubt that you heard it just as written. But it does have an air of urban legend about it, or maybe just a really angry dump manager? As the other reader noted, it's odd that they didn't have direct deposit. It's also odd that paychecks were weekly instead of bi-weekly as they are in the vast majority of places. And of course it's especially odd that a truck was really only used for one short trip per week.

Had the truck story happened in my town, the local paper would be full of outrage over it, especially with the involvement of the selectmen. Maybe you have a link you'd like to share with us?

Thanks

[phoenix]

I am a part time resident of Moultonborough for most of the last 35 years. I have always been surprised but happy at how frugal the town is. With all the summer lake front property they could be much less so and pass most of the taxes to non voting property owners .

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by PeterG

I did not say there was no waste--I'm sure there is in every town. Your story is interesting and good for a chuckle.

I do not doubt that you heard it just as written. But it does have an air of urban legend about it

My sources are primary sources. Was this new pickup truck purchased for the sole purpose of picking up the pay checks? Yes. But in proposing and voting on the "need" for a pickup truck by the town - it was repurposed to a vast usage. None of the other usages ever needed nor used. Just slipped by the taxpayers as another piece of equipment in the overall budget.

As far as direct deposit. Not everyone at that time wanted direct deposit. And even with direct deposit there is still a paper stub that is given to each employee. Checks are handed out and if not direct deposit a stub is handed out. So a moot point.

You can believe or not believe. You can laugh at this or hope that this is some sort of urban legend.
My sources were primary sources.

But now move onto the minivan that just sits at the back of the town hall that no one uses.
And what do we have upcoming? A new "bigger" minivan proposed. Not a replacement for the current minivan. An addition to the minivan.

What happened to all of those promises to cut waste, fraud, and abuse?

[longislander]

And even with direct deposit there is still a paper stub that is given to each employee. Checks are handed out and if not direct deposit a stub is handed out. So a moot point.

My social security check is direct deposit and I don't get a stub. The tax bills are slow-mailed to the house, aren't they. The stubs are a record, not a "negotiable" instrument, as in cashing a check. Maybe some don't have bank accounts? Maybe they should. Maybe THEY should pick-up their checks on their way home, after work. They might be happier if they get mileage, if that keeps them happy.

Historical IRS Mileage Rates
Year: Business Medical or Moving
2016 Rates 54 cents/mile 19 cents/mile
2015 Rates 57.5 cents/mile 23 cents/mile
2014 Rates 56 cents/mile 23.5 cents/mile


Tax bills (in Moultonborough, anyway) can now be paid online ... no trips to town hall, no 47 cent stamp (cost cut from 49 cents) to slow-mail.

I presume you go to town meeting and ask the BoS, the TA, and/or Budget committee ... WHY the waste?

Moultonborough has primary sources, as well. Folks that make/get phone calls from so & so, who got it from so & so, or heard from the town criers ... some in elected office.

Solution ... vote them out!

[Descant]

In 50 years, that truck will be in the July 4th parade and everybody will marvel at how frugal the town is to keep something that long and maintain it so well.

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by Doobs41378

So your taxes are only like $1200 a year?

No, they were $1505, now they are $1942