Trolling for Salmon and Lakers, Trout etc.

[Hillcountry]

We just got a tri-toon and I have already put some nifty rod holders on her...my question is:
Back in the day, before downriggers, etc, we just trolled with lead core and flies. Is it possible to still troll with lead core and flies/lures and expect to catch fish?
I do have updated rods and trolling reels with line counters but no down riggers.
I realize that the fish do stay more or less in the thermocline (sp)...can my rigs with lead core reach them?

[SAB1]

Yes sir. Even with down riggers on the boat I always have at least one rod out dragging lead. Some days the lead core is the only rod to catch fish.

[noreast]

Rumor has it, You can be successful. I haven't been, but I also SUCK.

[upthesaukee]

From the reading I have done in the various threads on trolling, it appears that speed plays a big part in getting the bait / lure down to the intended depth. Seems the speed is around 1.8 MPH, or so. Others may chime in on this as well.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

[pjard]

You can absolutely troll with lead core. That's the only way I can troll from my pontoon as I have chosen not to put down riggers on there. Speed is the big issue. My boat is too fast (LOL) for live bait but is fine for streamers and spoons. How slow does your boat go at idle?

[MikeF-NH]

check in with AJs bait and tackle in Meredith. He has his finger on the pulse of the lake for what is and is not working. This time of year flies seem to shine and they can be trolled faster. To slow down inexpensively...drag a few five gallon buckets off your front cleats. A good GPS helps to tell speed better than speedometer. For metal, you want to be 1.8-2.5 mph usually. For flies a little faster.

I think you will do fine though this year it seems many reports indicate a slower than usual haul so don't get discouraged....get out there next spring too!

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by pjard

You can absolutely troll with lead core. That's the only way I can troll from my pontoon as I have chosen not to put down riggers on there. Speed is the big issue. My boat is too fast (LOL) for live bait but is fine for streamers and spoons. How slow does your boat go at idle?

At dead idle GPS says under 2mph and I concur it's pretty slow!

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by noreast

Rumor has it, You can be successful. I haven't been, but I also SUCK.

Lol... I was thinking I do too...

[pjard]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

At dead idle GPS says under 2mph and I concur it's pretty slow!

You can catch fish! Without a doubt.

[Lockland]

New to the board, thanks for having me. Here is my thing with trolling. I'm constantly second guessing if my spoon/fly is at the right depth. Any tricks to know for sure?

Also, I was told repeatedly that I can just use mono if I use enough weight. Thoughts?

[pjard]

Originally Posted by Lockland

New to the board, thanks for having me. Here is my thing with trolling. I'm constantly second guessing if my spoon/fly is at the right depth. Any tricks to know for sure?

Also, I was told repeatedly that I can just use mono if I use enough weight. Thoughts?

Without down riggers you have to use lead core. The line is color coded and it's roughly 5 feet of depth for each color. Each color is 10 yards of line I think. Pretty simple... With regards to second guessing the right depth/color/speed/fly vs. spoon, that's called "fishing".

With regard to using mono, I have no idea how you could guess the depth. There could be a trick that I am not aware of. Also, you want to use a fluorocarbon leader between the end of the line and the lure itself. I'm sure others will vary but trolling reel starts with about 50 feet of backing (important), then 10 colors of lead core, then about 50 feet of mono just to get the lure away from the boat and finally 5-6 feet of fluorocarbon tied to the fly/spoon.

I have only been doing this for 4 seasons now so by no means am I an expert. However, it's not very difficult to set up a rig once you get the concept...actually catching fish, now that can be difficult!

[Lockland]

Thanks!

Also, sounds like jigging deep right now is the way to go. Think that will be my focus the next few mornings.

Originally Posted by pjard

Without down riggers you have to use lead core. The line is color coded and it's roughly 5 feet of depth for each color. Each color is 10 yards of line I think. Pretty simple... With regards to second guessing the right depth/color/speed/fly vs. spoon, that's called "fishing".

With regard to using mono, I have no idea how you could guess the depth. There could be a trick that I am not aware of. Also, you want to use a fluorocarbon leader between the end of the line and the lure itself. I'm sure others will vary but trolling reel starts with about 50 feet of backing (important), then 10 colors of lead core, then about 50 feet of mono just to get the lure away from the boat and finally 5-6 feet of fluorocarbon tied to the fly/spoon.

I have only been doing this for 4 seasons now so by no means am I an expert. However, it's not very difficult to set up a rig once you get the concept...actually catching fish, now that can be difficult!

[wtibert]

You can use mono as opposed to lead core, you just need a line counter to know the depth.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by wtibert

You can use mono as opposed to lead core, you just need a line counter to know the depth.

Huh?? Lead core sinks, mono does not....

[pjard]

Originally Posted by wtibert

You can use mono as opposed to lead core, you just need a line counter to know the depth.

I would love to learn more about this method? I'm missing something.

[Hillcountry]

Stopped in at AJ's today and asked him what was "hot" for trolling...he recommended several colors of a certain lure he had hanging behind the counter (don't know the name of them) so I bought one of each and I'm going to try some trolling in the early AM tomorrow.
Supposed to be nice with low wind, although in the old days my Dad used to say a little wind chop was good for salmon...but perhaps that is in the Spring when they are on top?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Stopped in at AJ's today and asked him what was "hot" for trolling...he recommended several colors of a certain lure he had hanging behind the counter (don't know the name of them) so I bought one of each and I'm going to try some trolling in the early AM tomorrow.
Supposed to be nice with low wind, although in the old days my Dad used to say a little wind chop was good for salmon...but perhaps that is in the Spring when they are on top?

Orange on copper, bb guns or top guns.

My best lure last weekend was a copper bb gun with grey and a blaze orange top edge and a orange eye... named- grey ghost?

Second best was copper, with same orange highlight with yellow and green spots... named - bikini?

Trolling at 2ish mph hitting underwater humps from 100+ feet up to the mid 30's. Bulk of the fish were suspended on the banks coming up to or down the back side of the humps.

Had about 9 colors of lead core out with a 100 foot 6lb floro leader. That said didn't get into any big ones. 2 medium salmon, 1 small bow and 3 small lakers and a trash fish (bass).

I'll be out tomorrow morning as well, once a couple hours past sunrise has passed action is dead.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Orange on copper, bb guns or top guns.

My best lure last weekend was a copper bb gun with grey and a blaze orange top edge and a orange eye... named- grey ghost?

Second best was copper, with same orange highlight with yellow and green spots... named - bikini?

Trolling at 2ish mph hitting underwater humps from 100+ feet up to the mid 30's. Bulk of the fish were suspended on the banks coming up to or down the back side of the humps.

Had about 9 colors of lead core out with a 100 foot 6lb floro leader. That said didn't get into any big ones. 2 medium salmon, 1 small bow and 3 small lakers and a trash fish (bass).

I'll be out tomorrow morning as well, once a couple hours past sunrise has passed action is dead.

Cool...the colors he sold me were a "watermelon" (coppery with a pink and green hue)
a bright pink with black spots
and a yellow/orange jobbie...all had red treble hooks. I should have asked him what they were called...
I'm going to be out before sunrise and will probably be back in by 9 to avoid Labor day crowds....

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by pjard

Without down riggers you have to use lead core. The line is color coded and it's roughly 5 feet of depth for each color. Each color is 10 yards of line I think. Pretty simple... With regards to second guessing the right depth/color/speed/fly vs. spoon, that's called "fishing".

With regard to using mono, I have no idea how you could guess the depth. There could be a trick that I am not aware of. Also, you want to use a fluorocarbon leader between the end of the line and the lure itself. I'm sure others will vary but trolling reel starts with about 50 feet of backing (important), then 10 colors of lead core, then about 50 feet of mono just to get the lure away from the boat and finally 5-6 feet of fluorocarbon tied to the fly/spoon.

I have only been doing this for 4 seasons now so by no means am I an expert. However, it's not very difficult to set up a rig once you get the concept...actually catching fish, now that can be difficult!

http://www.baitrodreel.com/detailed-...e-depth-chart/

[wtibert]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Huh?? Lead core sinks, mono does not....

With weight........I figured it was a given. I didnt say you should, I said you could. More trial and error, more weight etc.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by wtibert

With weight........I figured it was a given. I didnt say you should, I said you could. More trial and error, more weight etc.

I suppose you could attach lead weights to the mono line to get some sink but in my opinion it would be a complete waste of time. It's hard enough in Winni's super clear water to get fish to hit behind 80' of super thin super clear 6 lb. test fluorocarbon. Dragging a bunch of mono with giant weights on it near the lure certainly won't produce much in my opinion.

Spend the $12.00 and buy some lead core at AJ's, add 75' of proper leader and enjoy your day fishing and most likely catching something...

Dan

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Cool...the colors he sold me were a "watermelon" (coppery with a pink and green hue)
a bright pink with black spots
and a yellow/orange jobbie...all had red treble hooks. I should have asked him what they were called...
I'm going to be out before sunrise and will probably be back in by 9 to avoid Labor day crowds....

I've had marginal luck with the watermelons usually the bows and lakers like those never got a salmon on one.

The pink with black spots is a good one as well have had good luck with them, the blaze orange with black spots is even better.

Big thing to remember, bright and sunny use bright colors on overcast or low light use not so bright colors. That grey ghost seems to be a good option no matter the conditions. I usually always have that one in the water.

One other good one is the "lady bug" copper, red stripe with black spots. The salmon like those.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I suppose you could attach lead weights to the mono line to get some sink but in my opinion it would be a complete waste of time. It's hard enough in Winni's super clear water to get fish to hit behind 80' of super thin super clear 6 lb. test fluorocarbon. Dragging a bunch of mono with giant weights on it near the lure certainly won't produce much in my opinion.

Spend the $12.00 and buy some lead core at AJ's, add 75' of proper leader and enjoy your day fishing and most likely catching something...

Dan

Wow! I guess I need to re-do my trolling reels. (Bass Pro set them up when I bought the reels)
I have about 20 ft of leader and as I realized today when letting out a bunch of colors...NO BACKING! I quickly reeled in a few colors and tried trolling shallower for "anything" with no success...
Thanks for the tips!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Wow! I guess I need to re-do my trolling reels. (Bass Pro set them up when I bought the reels)
I have about 20 ft of leader and as I realized today when letting out a bunch of colors...NO BACKING! I quickly reeled in a few colors and tried trolling shallower for "anything" with no success...
Thanks for the tips!

Yeah, I would respool those....put 100' of thin super braid 20 lb on as a backer. It takes up no room, is super tough and will last forever. Attach to your lead core with the smallest barrel swivel you can find ( I use a #10 Spro swivel). Make sure to remove about 6" of lead out of the line so your tying to the outer braid only and not the lead. Once your lead core is spooled on, attach to 60 feet or so of 8 or 10 lb fluorocarbon using another small barrel swivel. Finally attach to 10' of 6 lb test fluorocarbon again using a barrel swivel. You will be good to go then!

Happy Fishing!!

Dan

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Yeah, I would respool those....put 100' of thin super braid 20 lb on as a backer. It takes up no room, is super tough and will last forever. Attach to your lead core with the smallest barrel swivel you can find ( I use a #10 Spro swivel). Make sure to remove about 6" of lead out of the line so your tying to the outer braid only and not the lead. Once your lead core is spooled on, attach to 60 feet or so of 8 or 10 lb fluorocarbon using another small barrel swivel. Finally attach to 10' of 6 lb test fluorocarbon again using a barrel swivel. You will be good to go then!

Happy Fishing!!

Dan

Perfect! Doing that today! Thank you!

[Hillcountry]

Well my reels are now set up with good backing and good florocarbon leaders.
I lost about one color of my lead core because of a freaking knot... I had laid out the line on my deck and a nice circular pile but my dog decided to come visit me and walked through the line and even sat down in it much to my chagrin.
The knot was so bad I gave up after about a half hour and cut my losses and joined the lead core together with a nice Palomar knot.
Oh well, maybe this will be my lucky rod!
Later I apologized to my springer for all the cuss words she had to put up with during the duration of my respooling project...she forgave me and all is well!
Side note: my eye and finger coordination is definitely challenged as I get older!
I used to be able to tie these little fishing knots really quickly... Not so much anymore (

[Hillcountry]

When I went back to AJ's I asked what the name of the lures they sold me was...Top Gun is the name.

[MikeF-NH]

TopGun is the manufacturer name for that lure type. Each color has been given a localized name to describe the color. There is a paper card behind each hanger of each color type that gives a name. Good lures have names....lures that have not been particularly good just have a color code number on the card. Example: orange with black spots mentioned above is "NH Guide".

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

When I went back to AJ's I asked what the name of the lures they sold me was...Top Gun is the name.

"Top Guns" are made by the Moosalamoo Shoe Horn Company. They also make the "BB Gun", "Tommy Gun" and "61 gun". all great lures that work well on Winni!

Dan

[pjard]

Top Guns and BB Guns certainly work well on Winnipesaukee but I prefer the DB Smelts. Unfortunately AJ's doesn't carry them.

[Lockland]

It jigging deep for trout and salmon just a myth? I'm jigging spoons from 100'-40', moving up the column, dropping again, repeating. No luck.

Anyone?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Lockland

It jigging deep for trout and salmon just a myth? I'm jigging spoons from 100'-40', moving up the column, dropping again, repeating. No luck.

Anyone?

You definitely must have a fish finder, any old cheap one will work just fine. Find deep holes, look for fish and jig!

I have had a couple emails from some people who never tried it before and we're pretty successful in past couple weeks! That makes me feel pretty good!!!

Tight lines!

Dan

[pjard]

Originally Posted by Lockland

It jigging deep for trout and salmon just a myth? I'm jigging spoons from 100'-40', moving up the column, dropping again, repeating. No luck.

Anyone?

What exactly are you jigging with?

[SAB1]

When I jig I mark the fish near the bottom, drop the lure to the bottom and real up a bit a line so the lure is about three off the bottom then let rod tip down so lure drops back to the bottom and yank it up three or four feet and let it down. Again. I don't come up into the water column often. I have luck on Swedish pimples or crippled herring but have also caught them striped bass jigs.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I've had marginal luck with the watermelons usually the bows and lakers like those never got a salmon on one.

The pink with black spots is a good one as well have had good luck with them, the blaze orange with black spots is even better.

Big thing to remember, bright and sunny use bright colors on overcast or low light use not so bright colors. That grey ghost seems to be a good option no matter the conditions. I usually always have that one in the water.

One other good one is the "lady bug" copper, red stripe with black spots. The salmon like those.

By Grey Ghost you mean the streamer, fly right?

[Hillcountry]

First salmon since geeze...I dunno...the 1980's?
Hit a Meredith Special fly in Meredith Bay of all places!
One good fat 4lb smallie to boot and that was it...couldn't do the "bragging pose" where they push the fish toward the camera (lol) as I was alone and I haven't taught my Springer to work the camera yet...

[Hillcountry]

Here's the culprit that can't work the camera...

[8gv]

Fine lookin' tri there!

The fish looks ok too.

[noreast]

Typical boater, Spend all your money on the boat, Nothing left for dog training.

[Hillcountry]

Went out yesterday with no luck😝
Had a nice hit on a Merrdith special, again, in the bay, and it felt like a heavy fish...unfortunately, it got off quickly.

On another note, while just cruising around the lake, one of my rod holders somehow, loosened and without my wife or myself noticing, and the whole shebang went to the deep six. 😂😖
Rod, reel, a fresh spool of lead core, leader and a new streamer, neatly, reeled in and the new rod holder to boot. We have no idea where it went down except for both of us hearing a thump while coming across from Governer's Island to Spindle point...we attributed the noise to the dog's life preserver flapping in the breeze as it hung in the sun from the Bimini frame. We only noticed the missing equipment while tidying up for landing at the marina.
On a good note, after emailing the president of Stealth Rod Holders about the incident, Jason immediately, called me last night and not only is he sending me a new Rod holder, he's sending a 2nd one as well for a spare or to give to a friend.
That, my friends, is stellar, customer service!
Please check them out and if in the market, send him some business...😜

[kawishiwi]

Sorry to hear about your lost gear but...If you are gonna fish you have to tell better stories! It should have been something like...
"Only 1 hit today but it was a monster that ripped my rod & holder right off the boat!"

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

Sorry to hear about your lost gear but...If you are gonna fish you have to tell better stories! It should have been something like...
"Only 1 hit today but it was a monster that ripped my rod & holder right off the boat!"

Yeah....that was it!! That's the ticket!!
And my wife, Morgan Fairchild, can back me up on that toooooo....😜😜

[Salmonater]

3-5 colors of lead on a 9' fly rod, 4-6# 75'+ fluoro leader, original Maine or NH salmon streamers or smelt. Trolling around 2MPH. Good place to begin.
Happy fishing.

[Salmonater]

I see many comments stating that there boat does not troll slow enough for bait/streamers. Not necessarily. IMO, you have to troll lures more slowly than bait/streamers.
When you see the locals trolling over 2-3 mph near the shoreline, you can be certain that they are pulling smelt/streamers. Think about how fast a bait fish is! I like the speed 1.5 to 2 MPH but the locals catch as many fish as anyone else. I have lived on the lake for over 27 years and the largest salmon (5+) was caught in July,noon time,90 degrees, 3 colors out on a bronze Mooselook. The moral is to get your rods in the water and enjoy the ride. You never know.

[SAB1]

Depends on bait presentation. When I troll live bait I do it two different ways, both at speeds well below 1mph