Ice Out Dock lost

Bearly There · 04-19-2017, 04:51 PM

We're on west bear, on the carry.

winterh · 04-19-2017, 06:24 PM

I don't think your loss of power would have made much difference. It is my understanding that the ice can attack your dock in two ways and a bubbler only protects it from one. When the ice freezes solid around your fixed posts it can move them up, down sideways...with the movement of the ice. A bubbler keeps the ice from forming and moving your posts.
The second cause of damage is wind driven icebergs moving in the spring. These can be huge and weigh thousands of tons. There is pretty much nothing that can stop them and your dock is at the mercy of the wind direction. By the looks and timing of your damage it looks like it got hit by a sheet of ice. Even if your bubbler was going 24/7 it would not have made much difference.
I ran my bubbler all winter a few years back. I thought I was in the clear when an ice flow took out my dock just days before ice out. it was painful to watch this sheet of ice come out of nowhere and destroy everything in its path.

SAB1 · 04-19-2017, 08:28 PM

Correct the way to hold those sheets back is to have a couple clusters of driven pilings out in front of the dock to catch the moving ice flows and hold them back.

Barney Bear · 04-19-2017, 11:13 PM

We had pilings at our dock for many years. Last year, the ice pushed the pilings against the dock and caused severe damage. A permit is required to be able to install pilings.

IslandRadio · 04-19-2017, 11:35 PM

That's too bad. A wrecked dock is absolutely no fun at all.

I notice you have a lot of big trees in the background. This suggests that you could do a tip-it-up-and-out-of-the-water dock (and have something sturdy like the trees to use to pull it up) and not have to worry about bubblers and the like any more.

Don't know about your DIY capabilities, but the materials for such a dock would be quite reasonable (assuming PT wood and lots of galvi and stainless hardware). I have built such a dock in the past - 30 feet long. I had one helper.

A thought anyway.... it is very nice to get the dock OUT of the water.

One of my neighbors had a stays-in-the-water-all-year dock, and even with the bubbler working properly, the dock got wrecked by an ice flow. They replaced it with a tilt-up dock.... and the Cadillacs of docks - aluminum tilt up installed by pros.... not necessarily suggesting that unless you have a lot of cash lying around, but the point is the bubbler doesn't stop the flows of ice on a windy day.

Again, sorry yours got wrecked.... definitely feel your pain (have been there)

MDoug · 04-20-2017, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearly There

We're on west bear, on the carry.

Sorry for your damage. Usually the carry would be safe from floating bulldozers, I thought.

tis · 04-20-2017, 07:42 AM

I totally agree with winterh. It would have happened, bubbler or not.

The thing you need to worry about right now is getting your application for a permit in. That is a bigger worry than how and who to fix your dock. It could take a long time unless things have changed.

TiltonBB · 04-20-2017, 08:06 AM

The process should not be too difficult as long as it was a legal dock and you are replacing it with a similar dock.

A few years ago I had some damage on a property in Laconia. I was quoted (by a local contractor) $1,200 to get the permit from DES.

The application has to go through the local city (town) hall before it is submitted to the state and they will want pictures with it. I completed the process myself in about 2 hours and I do not remember it taking very long to get the permit. I think the key is replacing it with a dock of the same dimensions as the one that got damaged. If you want to make changes that might delay the process.

I have called DES on several occasions and found them to be helpful with any questions.

CaptT820 · 04-20-2017, 09:33 AM

I just finished a DES permit for minimal changes. I won't sugar coat it, the permit is time consuming. It took my wife and I several hours to complete as there are portions you have to send to the DHR (NH Division of Historical Resources), maps and plans you need to create, and in our case four copies needed to be submitted to the town (Alton) conservation commission for their consideration. After the town approves it (hopefully) we then send the final copy to Concord for approval.

Let me note that we are removing a manmade object (old crib dock) from the lake, NOT building anything new. Good Luck

Hillcountry · 04-20-2017, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptT820

I just finished a DES permit for minimal changes. I won't sugar coat it, the permit is time consuming. It took my wife and I several hours to complete as there are portions you have to send to the DHR (NH Division of Historical Resources), maps and plans you need to create, and in our case four copies needed to be submitted to the town (Alton) conservation commission for their consideration. After the town approves it (hopefully) we then send the final copy to Concord for approval.

Let me note that we are removing a manmade object (old crib dock) from the lake, NOT building anything new. Good Luck

Wow! Talk about red tape! Too bad such regulations are in place to hinder a project that actually, enhances the lake..."live free or die" not.

Rich · 04-20-2017, 01:17 PM

Wow, as someone said in another thread, you can't remove things from the lake without a lot of paperwork and permits, but it's ok for people to leave trash on the ice that ends up on the bottom of the lake every spring.

codeman671 · 04-20-2017, 01:26 PM

Did you check to see if the repairs could be handled under Permit By Notification? It may be worth a call into the state. If you have to go through a full permit process, kiss the summer good bye. Being that its your only dock, and that you are on an island and need it as your only access you may be able to work something out with DES.

Otherwise make it go away in the dark of night, and do a PBN for a single finger seasonal liftout.

Bear Island South · 04-20-2017, 07:39 PM

Bearly There, I sent you a private message, I have an aluminum frame dock that I am selling, it is 6'x40'

fatlazyless · 04-25-2017, 10:18 AM

Homedepot.com has do-it-yourself dock builder kits, same as Walmart.com and shows the PlayStar, and MultiNautic brands. Basically, the kit in a cardboard box gets shipped free to a nearby store, and you complete the dock project with deck lumber purchased locally ........ like wow ......what a 21st century, do-it-yourself concept ...... a dock in a box ..... omg!

I just ordered two of the PlayStar $8.49-each galv finish base plates that fit either a 1 5/8" or 1 7/8" diameter pipe leg support, and look forward to doing this repair in 40-degree water, five foot depth, while holding my breath........ weeeeoooooooo!

My aluminum dock is soooooo ooooold .....it looks a lot like a 1936 DC-3 airplane ...... what with many, many, many aluminum rivets holding it together!

Man-o-man ......last spring I gave up on finding a similar base plate and ended up making six homemade baseplates with a mitre saw, drill and 2x6" pressure treated lumber and a 1/4 x 4" stainless bolt .....and they actually seem to be standing up good.....yikes!
..........

.... slightly off-topic, but what the heck: If you are a large sized adult, such as myself, then you may be interested to know that Walmart.com has Stearn's pfd's, blue or red, adult over-sized size, USCG-approved, for the bargain basement price of 9.94-each ...... this is a high quality and a low price.

MAXUM · 04-25-2017, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Homedepot.com has do-it-yourself dock builder kits, same as Walmart.com and shows the PlayStar, and MultiNautic brands. Basically, the kit in a cardboard box gets shipped free to a nearby store, and you complete the dock project with deck lumber purchased locally ........ like wow ......what a 21st century, do-it-yourself concept ...... a dock in a box ..... omg!

I just ordered two of the PlayStar $8.49-each galv finish base plates that fit either a 1 5/8" or 1 7/8" diameter pipe leg support, and look forward to doing this repair in 40-degree water, five foot depth, while holding my breath........ weeeeoooooooo!

Those dock sections that the box stores sell are light duty, not something you can expect to take any kind of serious use or actually tie a boat to unless it were on a small pond and a small boat. They are rickety as heck too but that should not come as a surprise as you look at the way the way and amount of surface the legs have to connect to the horizontal platform. The good docks tend to have a cross braced sub structure that allows for two well spaced capture points for the leg supports. Then again you get what you pay for. Guess it all comes down to what you're going to use it for.

I find it hard to believe that with all the places that either sell or make docks around the lake you cannot find parts for what you got - it's not as if those posts and pads are that unique. In fact Heath's Hardware store in Ctr Harbor has a whole selection of parts that are reasonably priced.

Outdoorsman · 04-25-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I find it hard to believe that with all the places that either sell or make docks around the lake you cannot find parts for what you got -

If it is not at WalMart in Plymouth or available with multi-colored noodles wrapped around it.... FLL will not know about it.

MAXUM · 04-25-2017, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

If it is not at WalMart in Plymouth or available with multi-colored noodles wrapped around it.... FLL will not know about it.

Heath's Hardware also sells noodles in a wider variety of colors.... come on what could be more tempting than that?!?

fatlazyless · 04-26-2017, 09:04 AM

While installing my dock last weekend, I lost one of the vinyl caps that sets atop a 2" diameter support leg ...... probably, it's now resting somewhere at ten foot depth ...... and will turn up in summer with a snorkel search.

Anyway, Heaths' Hdwe had the vinyl post cap, and I bought it for 4.99/one.

Lo and behold, cross my heart and hope to die, and shoot me dead if I am lying here ...... the Walmart.com PlayStar page shows the identical item as a four pack/2.99 ...... Lord have mercy! ...... and, I already painted the one for 4.99, so I cannot return it back to Heaths' .......... amen and boo-hoo.

Rich · 04-26-2017, 10:48 AM

You could perform the stunt that my GF's sister would do.

She'd buy the cheaper 4 pack, break it apart, and return it, four times, to the place that had the higher price.

Oh, maybe I shouldn't teach you her stunts!

As it is, she doesn't like to talk to me much anymore, as I am always calling her out on how illegal and unethical many of her stunts are.

codeman671 · 04-26-2017, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Heath's Hardware also sells noodles in a wider variety of colors.... come on what could be more tempting than that?!?

But what about ski belts? Can't forget his love for those!

fatlazyless · 04-26-2017, 01:20 PM

Best to support your local retail hardware store, and be a good faithful customer, as much as one can afford. Maybe not the lowest prices, but so many, many, different items including paint, fasteners, plumbing, electrical and thousands of other items ...... all, just a 15-minute drive away.

Between Lowe's, Walmart and the internet.....the local hardware needs real strong customers who support it ...... plus Heaths' usually starts up their free coffee in those high quality, brite red, Tru-Value coffee cups this time of year. Something you probably would not trust to get at a Wal-Mart.

Rand's in Plymouth has k-cup coffee for 50-cents, and it could be the most popular item in the whole store.

Like ....... think I'll head over to Rand's to pick up a $250 all-aluminum, dock ladder, a couple 2" aluminum dock brackets, and a 50-cent cup of coffee, just for that french roast, k-cup ....... yum!

04-19-2017, 11:13 PM	#4
Barney Bear Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 962 Thanks: 495 Thanked 274 Times in 175 Posts	Pilings to Rescue??? We had pilings at our dock for many years. Last year, the ice pushed the pilings against the dock and caused severe damage. A permit is required to be able to install pilings.

04-19-2017, 11:35 PM	#5
IslandRadio Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mirror Lake - Full time resident Posts: 398 Thanks: 70 Thanked 156 Times in 61 Posts	That's too bad - really - no fun at all. That's too bad. A wrecked dock is absolutely no fun at all. I notice you have a lot of big trees in the background. This suggests that you could do a tip-it-up-and-out-of-the-water dock (and have something sturdy like the trees to use to pull it up) and not have to worry about bubblers and the like any more. Don't know about your DIY capabilities, but the materials for such a dock would be quite reasonable (assuming PT wood and lots of galvi and stainless hardware). I have built such a dock in the past - 30 feet long. I had one helper. A thought anyway.... it is very nice to get the dock OUT of the water. One of my neighbors had a stays-in-the-water-all-year dock, and even with the bubbler working properly, the dock got wrecked by an ice flow. They replaced it with a tilt-up dock.... and the Cadillacs of docks - aluminum tilt up installed by pros.... not necessarily suggesting that unless you have a lot of cash lying around, but the point is the bubbler doesn't stop the flows of ice on a windy day. Again, sorry yours got wrecked.... definitely feel your pain (have been there)

04-20-2017, 08:06 AM	#8
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,027 Thanks: 708 Thanked 2,208 Times in 940 Posts	Get the permit yourself The process should not be too difficult as long as it was a legal dock and you are replacing it with a similar dock. A few years ago I had some damage on a property in Laconia. I was quoted (by a local contractor) $1,200 to get the permit from DES. The application has to go through the local city (town) hall before it is submitted to the state and they will want pictures with it. I completed the process myself in about 2 hours and I do not remember it taking very long to get the permit. I think the key is replacing it with a dock of the same dimensions as the one that got damaged. If you want to make changes that might delay the process. I have called DES on several occasions and found them to be helpful with any questions.

04-20-2017, 09:33 AM	#9
CaptT820 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 122 Thanks: 86 Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts	Permit I just finished a DES permit for minimal changes. I won't sugar coat it, the permit is time consuming. It took my wife and I several hours to complete as there are portions you have to send to the DHR (NH Division of Historical Resources), maps and plans you need to create, and in our case four copies needed to be submitted to the town (Alton) conservation commission for their consideration. After the town approves it (hopefully) we then send the final copy to Concord for approval. Let me note that we are removing a manmade object (old crib dock) from the lake, NOT building anything new. Good Luck

04-20-2017, 01:17 PM	#11
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,246 Thanks: 74 Thanked 345 Times in 235 Posts	Wow, as someone said in another thread, you can't remove things from the lake without a lot of paperwork and permits, but it's ok for people to leave trash on the ice that ends up on the bottom of the lake every spring. __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com

04-19-2017, 04:51 PM	#1
Bearly There Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Haverhill/Bear Island Posts: 13 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	We're on west bear, on the carry.

The Following User Says Thank You to Bearly There For This Useful Post:
MDoug (04-20-2017)

04-19-2017, 06:24 PM	#2
winterh Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 249 Thanks: 30 Thanked 135 Times in 62 Posts	I don't think your loss of power would have made much difference. It is my understanding that the ice can attack your dock in two ways and a bubbler only protects it from one. When the ice freezes solid around your fixed posts it can move them up, down sideways...with the movement of the ice. A bubbler keeps the ice from forming and moving your posts. The second cause of damage is wind driven icebergs moving in the spring. These can be huge and weigh thousands of tons. There is pretty much nothing that can stop them and your dock is at the mercy of the wind direction. By the looks and timing of your damage it looks like it got hit by a sheet of ice. Even if your bubbler was going 24/7 it would not have made much difference. I ran my bubbler all winter a few years back. I thought I was in the clear when an ice flow took out my dock just days before ice out. it was painful to watch this sheet of ice come out of nowhere and destroy everything in its path.

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to winterh For This Useful Post:
Descant (04-19-2017), Reilly (04-20-2017), SteveO123 (04-20-2017), tis (04-19-2017), TriDad (04-19-2017)

04-19-2017, 08:28 PM	#3
SAB1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Tuftonboro Posts: 1,244 Thanks: 192 Thanked 329 Times in 239 Posts	Correct the way to hold those sheets back is to have a couple clusters of driven pilings out in front of the dock to catch the moving ice flows and hold them back.

The Following User Says Thank You to IslandRadio For This Useful Post:
upthesaukee (04-20-2017)

04-20-2017, 07:42 AM	#7
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,774 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,020 Posts	I totally agree with winterh. It would have happened, bubbler or not. The thing you need to worry about right now is getting your application for a permit in. That is a bigger worry than how and who to fix your dock. It could take a long time unless things have changed.

04-20-2017, 01:26 PM	#12
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,514 Thanks: 221 Thanked 821 Times in 493 Posts	Did you check to see if the repairs could be handled under Permit By Notification? It may be worth a call into the state. If you have to go through a full permit process, kiss the summer good bye. Being that its your only dock, and that you are on an island and need it as your only access you may be able to work something out with DES. Otherwise make it go away in the dark of night, and do a PBN for a single finger seasonal liftout.

The Following User Says Thank You to codeman671 For This Useful Post:
SteveO123 (04-20-2017)

04-20-2017, 07:39 PM	#13
Bear Island South Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southboro, MA Posts: 579 Thanks: 75 Thanked 384 Times in 170 Posts	Bearly There, I sent you a private message, I have an aluminum frame dock that I am selling, it is 6'x40'

04-25-2017, 10:18 AM	#14
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,796 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,026 Times in 746 Posts	.... it's a dock in a box .... omg! Homedepot.com has do-it-yourself dock builder kits, same as Walmart.com and shows the PlayStar, and MultiNautic brands. Basically, the kit in a cardboard box gets shipped free to a nearby store, and you complete the dock project with deck lumber purchased locally ........ like wow ......what a 21st century, do-it-yourself concept ...... a dock in a box ..... omg! I just ordered two of the PlayStar $8.49-each galv finish base plates that fit either a 1 5/8" or 1 7/8" diameter pipe leg support, and look forward to doing this repair in 40-degree water, five foot depth, while holding my breath........ weeeeoooooooo! My aluminum dock is soooooo ooooold .....it looks a lot like a 1936 DC-3 airplane ...... what with many, many, many aluminum rivets holding it together! Man-o-man ......last spring I gave up on finding a similar base plate and ended up making six homemade baseplates with a mitre saw, drill and 2x6" pressure treated lumber and a 1/4 x 4" stainless bolt .....and they actually seem to be standing up good.....yikes! .......... .... slightly off-topic, but what the heck: If you are a large sized adult, such as myself, then you may be interested to know that Walmart.com has Stearn's pfd's, blue or red, adult over-sized size, USCG-approved, for the bargain basement price of 9.94-each ...... this is a high quality and a low price. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 04-25-2017 at 02:58 PM.

04-26-2017, 09:04 AM	#18
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,796 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,026 Times in 746 Posts	While installing my dock last weekend, I lost one of the vinyl caps that sets atop a 2" diameter support leg ...... probably, it's now resting somewhere at ten foot depth ...... and will turn up in summer with a snorkel search. Anyway, Heaths' Hdwe had the vinyl post cap, and I bought it for 4.99/one. Lo and behold, cross my heart and hope to die, and shoot me dead if I am lying here ...... the Walmart.com PlayStar page shows the identical item as a four pack/2.99 ...... Lord have mercy! ...... and, I already painted the one for 4.99, so I cannot return it back to Heaths' .......... amen and boo-hoo. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

04-26-2017, 10:48 AM	#19
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,246 Thanks: 74 Thanked 345 Times in 235 Posts	You could perform the stunt that my GF's sister would do. She'd buy the cheaper 4 pack, break it apart, and return it, four times, to the place that had the higher price. Oh, maybe I shouldn't teach you her stunts! As it is, she doesn't like to talk to me much anymore, as I am always calling her out on how illegal and unethical many of her stunts are. __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com

04-26-2017, 01:20 PM	#21
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,796 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,026 Times in 746 Posts	Best to support your local retail hardware store, and be a good faithful customer, as much as one can afford. Maybe not the lowest prices, but so many, many, different items including paint, fasteners, plumbing, electrical and thousands of other items ...... all, just a 15-minute drive away. Between Lowe's, Walmart and the internet.....the local hardware needs real strong customers who support it ...... plus Heaths' usually starts up their free coffee in those high quality, brite red, Tru-Value coffee cups this time of year. Something you probably would not trust to get at a Wal-Mart. Rand's in Plymouth has k-cup coffee for 50-cents, and it could be the most popular item in the whole store. Like ....... think I'll head over to Rand's to pick up a $250 all-aluminum, dock ladder, a couple 2" aluminum dock brackets, and a 50-cent cup of coffee, just for that french roast, k-cup ....... yum! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!