Rotary Derby, Feb. 18th & 19th, 2006

[IFish]

Hi Everyone, it's my first post, but I've been a reader for years now. In fact, this is where I usually get my ice information, before the Rotary Derby's. This year the derby was moved back a week, due to unsafe ice conditions. I went on Sat only, and had planned on fishing from about 7am to 3pm. Anyone that was out that morning, knows how cold and windy it was, not to mention the mini-blizzard that blew though early in the morning. My friend and I had walked out on to the ice, and with no bob house, or other shelter, we called it a day about 11am.

We fished almost directly across from the weigh in trailer, on Meridith Bay. Did anyone else fish that area, or see the large area behind the weigh in board, that had very thin ice? It was a large area, that came from the incoming stream, and went more than 1/2 way across the end of the bay. I was told it had only been frozen for a couple of days, which would seem about right, as there was no more than 2 inch's of black ice. All of the good ice, surrounding that area, had about 6-8 inhes of good white ice. I know, white ice usually isn't that good. But compared to the large area of thin black ice, it was more than safe enough to walk, fish, and snow mobile on.

In the short amount of time I was in the area, at least one 4 wheeler (maybe 2) and a fisherman went through the unsafe ice. I didn't see the 4 wheeler go in, but I did see the guys pull it out with a grappling hook, and rope. Even that was not very safe, as the person nearest to the edge, had to try and wedge the axel and wheels up and over the ice, with boards.

What was really scary was the fisherman who had walked over some rotten white ice, and dropped through. He wasn't on the black ice, but not too far from it, maybe 20 feet. He just got unlucky, and broke thru. I heard some noise, and looked in that direction. Guys were running to where he went down. At first I didn't see him, but then he finally popped up through the hole he made when going down. He was only up a couple seconds, and went back down. By this time, the "rescue" fishermen, had started to lie down, in a line, each grabbing the guys boots in front of him. They were edging towards the area, when the fisherman popped up a second time. This time he was able to grab on to the ice, and start kicking with his legs. It was text book, and he was able to get his legs high enough, to get them on to the ice, and was able to roll to safety. Luckily he was able to get out on his own, as the rescue guys sill had not reached him. It was a bad break that he went through, but it all worked out in his favor. He was lucky enough to come back up thru the hole he had made, and then smart enough to kick himself on to safe ice!!

I then looked towards derby headquarters, to see if anyone was making there way out to help. We could easily see the trailer, the guys cooking, the tents, everything. Yet apparently no one on shore noticed what had happened. I decided to walk in, to tell them of the unsafe conditions not to far, behind the "fish board". This was a fairly large area, and there were some folks walking out on to the ice to see the action, as well as the fishermen. I didn't want to see anyone else get in trouble, with the thin ice.

I was sadly mistaken if I thought I could get someone to listen to me, and maybe put a plan together, to warn folks away from the most dangerest areas! I first ran into 3 policemen, in uniform. They were on shore, near the board, and looking out over the ice. I asked if they had seen what happend. Nope, they hadn't. When I asked if there was something that could be done to mark the area, they just told me they wern't going on to the ice. Next I went to the F.D. tent, and spoke to fireman inside the tent, who was getting ready for the day. I told him what happened, but since the guy had gotten out, he didn't seem interested. He asked me what I thought could be done. I notied some good sized, heavy duty, yellow saw horses in the area, and suggested they be brought out on to the ice, and yellow police safety tape be strung from one to another. Too much work, plus he told me that the same thing was happening all over the lake. I reminded him that this was right at Derby Headquartes, where they were many more people assembled, than at most other places on the ice.

I think what really got me, was that he then told me if people were going to go on the ice, they should know good ice, from unsafe ice!!! Give me a break, not everyone there was a sportsman, or ice fisherman, and knows good ice, from bad. I didn't get anywhere there, so my final stop was the derby weigh in guys themselves. I waited while they weighed in a nice 2 pound tagged rainbow. When they had a minute, I told them the same story, now for the third time. I've got to tell you, by this time, I juist wanted to get out of the wind, but I thought these guys were my last hope.

Nope, not interested, they were there to weigh in fish! I read the fish reports that I could find, over the next few days, and there was nothing about any drownings in Meredith Bay, thankfully. I know that Rotary had to get the derby going, and I don't blame them for having it, considering how poor the ice conditions were this year. I'm just wondering what you guys think, did I go overboard, trying to get that area marked off? In my mind, I did what was right, and I suppose thats all that matters.

Thanks for all the good info over the years,
I Fish

[Grant]

Thanks for the report! I was up there the week before (original Derby date), and saw a lot of unstable ice. Saw some fish photos on the Rotary web site, but hadn't heard too many reports.

I bet all those "disinterested" parties would've been real keen to get that area marked off if THEY had fallen through!

One question: Did you get any fish?

[CHSLTD]

Overboard? Hardly... I wonder what would have happened to the police/fire that were advised of the problem and not taken steps to prevent further problems had there been a loss of life? To serve and protect? I can understand that they did not want to get on the ice, a simple sign placed on a yellow saw horse ON LAND where the board was placed to get people on the ice would have been my first chioce.

[fatlazyless]

For about eight dollars Wal-Mart sells a pair of these bright orange 'ice pick grips' for pulling oneself up and onto the good ice after breaking through. They come with an idiot cord thats get strung up ones' sleeves for easy & quick access. Overton's sells one buckle and larger two buckle flotation belts that are similar to the old waterski belts. They are excellent for increasing one's floation whether used alone as designed or in addition to a pfd if your body type is a natural sinker. Plus, they are not as bulky and hot like a pfd when worn in the winter. The wider two-buckle belts do a real good job and come in white or safety yellow. www.overtons.com

NH is pretty much self-preservation and mind-your-own- business, "Live Free or Die."

[IFish]

Originally Posted by Grant

Thanks for the report! I was up there the week before (original Derby date), and saw a lot of unstable ice. Saw some fish photos on the Rotary web site, but hadn't heard too many reports.

I bet all those "disinterested" parties would've been real keen to get that area marked off if THEY had fallen through!

One question: Did you get any fish?

We put two of our tilts in shallow water, about 4' deep, and 2 were about 12-14 feet deep, shiners on all 4 tilts. I caught 3 perch, nothing over a pound. My buddy had one "screamer" that tore off about 50 feet of line. He set the hook, nothing! We were thinking he may have had a rainbow on, but thats only a guess. All the action came on the shallow tilts.

When I put a new shiner on my hook, in the shollow hole, I could see the perch race over to check it out. I was amazed at how many times they picked it up, then spit it right out, never tripping the flag. It wasn't enough to kill the shiners, almost like the perch were playing with them

We both used size 8 hooks, which may allow for a few more hits. On the other hand, the hook is so small, it's easy to pull right out of the fish, when setting it. We figured that's what happened to my buddy, arrrggghhhhhhhh!

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Ifish, at dinner last night your dilemma came up. My reaction would have been much like yours. R-Guy and one of my sons felt that if this area were marked off for safety it might have given the false impression that other questionable spots that were not marked were safe.
Anyone venturing out on the ice last weekend should have realized the dangers and should have used extreme caution. I’m chicken to go out on the ice no matter what.
PS - Glad you finally posted!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Perhaps we should start a thread on how to tell the difference between safe and unsafe ice ?

[mcdude]

RG? MEE-n-MAC?
Would you consider this safe or unsafe ice?

[Mee-n-Mac]

mcdude - Your ice is definitely safe. It's the liquid you've got to be wary of.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Depends on whether you are planning to drive .

[fatlazyless]

Slightly off topic here but that never stops me. Driving past Big Squam in Holderness today, looking from the scenic outlook on Rt 3-25, there's a huge new area of open water like hundreds of acres. It was all solid ice as of two days ago. Must have been those Squamies testing out their new hand carved, organically grown, granola powered, non polluting, and Bartlett inscribed four inch diameter ice augers, or something?

Since jet skis are banned from Squam does that include their winter Mr Hyde, the snowmobile?

[Rattlesnake Gal]

McDude - that’s the kind of ice I like to see!

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Since jet skis are banned from Squam does that include their winter Mr Hyde, the snowmobile?

Just what is the definition of a jet ski? Does a three person personal watercraft fall under the term?

Now that the sun his getting higher and stronger everyone must use extreme caution on any bodies of water!
Let’s not hear about your accident in the news!

(For those of you who might think this thread has gotten off topic, any attention to ice safety is a good thing. )

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

...Just what is the definition of a jet ski? Does a three person personal watercraft fall under the term?...

Hi RG,

Below is the RSA where you fill find the defininition of Ski Craft (Jet Ski). The three person PWC that you specifically inquired about does not fall under this definition. As always, I have highlighted the applicable passage in red.

Hope this helped,

Skip


TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270
SUPERVISION OF NAVIGATION; REGISTRATION OF BOATS AND MOTORS; COMMON CARRIERS BY WATER
Ski Craft
Section 270:73
270:73 Definitions. – In this subdivision:
I. "Bureau" means the department of safety, bureau of hearings, established pursuant to RSA 21-P:13.
II. "Department" means the department of safety.
III. "Operator" means a person who operates or who has charge of the navigation or use of a ski craft.
IV. "Private boat" means a boat as defined in RSA 270:2, V, including a ski craft.
V. "Ski craft" means any motorized watercraft or private boat which is less than 13 feet in length as manufactured, is capable of exceeding a speed of 20 miles per hour, and has the capacity to carry not more than the operator and one other person while in operation. The term includes a jet ski, surf ski, fun ski, or other similar device.
VI. "Watercraft" means a motorized ski craft, capable of being used as a means of transportation on or in the water, except a seaplane.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

I was in Meredith Saturday (25th) and saw a big pile of sand blocking the boat ramp. What's up with that? Is there now some concern, after the derby is over?

[IFish]

It sounds like the powers to be, finally decided to make the ramp even less accessable. During the Derby, the ramp was blocked by saw horses, and some of the prizes (two 4-wheelers on a trailer). Once the Derby folks left the area, anyone could have moved the saw horses, and attempted to drive on. With the ice getting safer, in most places, I'd bet thats exactlly what happened.

At which time, someone (fire, PD, or DPW), decided to make sure the ramp was really blocked (for cars and trucks anyways), and then dumped the sand.

Rattlesnake Girl, I'm sure that your friends thoughts were very similar to the authorities on the morning of the Derby. What made that area different than the whole rest of the lake, was the Derby Headquarters. As nasty as the weathy was, people were still walking out on to the ice to check the board, and talk to some of the fishermen in that area. There would have been no problem, if everyone was able to park across from the Rotary trailer. They would have just crossed the road, and had a short, safe walk to the board.

But, as you can imagine, parking was at a premium. A lot of people, myself included, parked in the strip mall lot, on the left of Rt 25, right where it started to bear away from the ice. From that area, it appeared to be much safer to cut across the ice, to get to the board, instead of walking in the road, with the heavy traffic, over to the trailer. Depending on where you stepped on to the ice, off of Rt #25, you may have been unlucky enough to cross the 2 inch black ice, to get to the board. That was the biggest problem, the thin black ice stuck way out into the end of the cove, at least 50% of the way across! To be safe, you really had to walk to the left (west) side, which was away from the trailer, and the fish board. The natural thing would have been to walk the shortest distane, and that would have taken you right across the thin ice.

The one thing I was happy to see as I was leaving, is that the fishermen in the area, were trying to police the thin ice themselves, but that was kind of hit or miss. As long as they were standing around, it wasn't much of a problem. Whenever someone got a flag, thats where everyone in the area's attention was. It was at this time, that people were most at risk of going thru.

I don't know if this thin ice problem behind the fish board will ever happen again, but I hope that we probably got the attention of some of the people who could have made a difference. I just hope it'll be looked at in future years. We could be in for big trouble if this global warming thing continues

[CHSLTD]

Gilford has blocked the glendale ramps with jersey barriers also...Even the jet ski ramp. There are six or so bob houses there, I bet the fisherman are wondering how the will get them off now. (they were not there three weeks ago)