WOW Trail Phase 3 Heating up...

[feb]

Last week I decided to try this trail out. First impressions were great. The section from Laconia to Winnisquam was peaceful. You get some views of the lake but most is obstructed by trees which is fine. The section from Laconia to Lakeport was a little more dreary only because you have to use streets a little bit and also see more of the backs of business. Still it was nice to be able to ride that distance without worrying about car traffic.

I was surprised how much the trail was used. I passed several families walking and/or riding, some joggers, some retirees strolling along, some dog walkers and some bicyclists. All in all I'd say I passed about 30 people in the 2 times I used it. Unfortunately we did see a guy passed out at the picnic table at the Lakeport end but it is what it is.

Overall it was nice. If they ever get the section from Lakeport to Meredith built I believe it would be very popular. The total mileage of the current trail isn't much but its still something relaxing to do and burn a few calories.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by feb

Last week I decided to try this trail out. First impressions were great. The section from Laconia to Winnisquam was peaceful. You get some views of the lake but most is obstructed by trees which is fine. The section from Laconia to Lakeport was a little more dreary only because you have to use streets a little bit and also see more of the backs of business. Still it was nice to be able to ride that distance without worrying about car traffic.

I was surprised how much the trail was used. I passed several families walking and/or riding, some joggers, some retirees strolling along, some dog walkers and some bicyclists. All in all I'd say I passed about 30 people in the 2 times I used it. Unfortunately we did see a guy passed out at the picnic table at the Lakeport end but it is what it is.

Overall it was nice. If they ever get the section from Lakeport to Meredith built I believe it would be very popular. The total mileage of the current trail isn't much but its still something relaxing to do and burn a few calories.

He wasn't "passed out," he was relaxing "en plein air." Much classier!

[Paugus]

Looks like the State isn't biting on this lawsuit.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...suit-premature

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Looks like the State isn't biting on this lawsuit.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...suit-premature

Not the case....

The WOW Org has been saying that they would be filing plans by the fall for Phase III. Now they are saying that it might be 4 or 5 years before they file plans. That is what they told DOT. The litigation was filed based upon the view that the WOW Org would imminently be filing plans with the city - that is what they publicly said.

DOT had to respond to the SD/LB petition by 8/11/17 and they requested an extension of 30 days. SD/LB agreed to this extension. DOT's concern is whether the action is premature since now the WOW Org is saying that it is going to be years (a different story than a few months ago). So, fundamentally no action has been taken by either side. SD/LB have the right to proceed to court and DOT has the right to determine whether they want to settle this by not granting permission to the WOW Org. If the litigation is delayed, it is just that. It will be simply be put aside until things progress...if that is the decision. The basis of the litigation stands.

It is clear that the article in the Laconia Daily Sun was focusing on a position that there was a motion to dismiss and that is simply not the case. The litigation is currently still very much in effect. Of course SD/LB does not want to waste state resources if the WOW Org is 4 or 5 years away from filing plans.

Fundamentally, the route along the frontage does not make sense and the WOW Org would be well served to focus on one of the alternative routes that have been proposed. It would be less expensive, less intrusive and could be built more quickly than the route along the frontage. Tavern 27 has even offered land for a welcome center and parking.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Not the case....

The WOW Org has been saying that they would be filing plans by the fall for Phase III. Now they are saying that it might be 4 or 5 years before they file plans. That is what they told DOT. The litigation was filed based upon the view that the WOW Org would imminently be filing plans with the city - that is what they publicly said.

DOT had to respond to the SD/LB petition by 8/11/17 and they requested an extension of 30 days. SD/LB agreed to this extension. DOT's concern is whether the action is premature since now the WOW Org is saying that it is going to be years (a different story than a few months ago). So, fundamentally no action has been taken by either side. SD/LB have the right to proceed to court and DOT has the right to determine whether they want to settle this by not granting permission to the WOW Org. If the litigation is delayed, it is just that. It will be simply be put aside until things progress...if that is the decision. The basis of the litigation stands.

It is clear that the article in the Laconia Daily Sun was focusing on a position that there was a motion to dismiss and that is simply not the case. The litigation is currently still very much in effect. Of course SD/LB does not want to waste state resources if the WOW Org is 4 or 5 years away from filing plans.

Fundamentally, the route along the frontage does not make sense and the WOW Org would be well served to focus on one of the alternative routes that have been proposed. It would be less expensive, less intrusive and could be built more quickly than the route along the frontage. Tavern 27 has even offered land for a welcome center and parking.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

You are forgetting one key item. If the trail is re routed away from the railroad ROW then the federal funding disappears.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by joey2665

You are forgetting one key item. If the trail is re routed away from the railroad ROW then the federal funding disappears.

Not at all....

• The cost to build the trail along the frontage will be much much higher than any of the the alternate routes.
• With the current administration, money for secondary transportation infrastructure is being redirected to primary transportation infrastructure and it is unlikely that it will be as available in the past.

So, let's look at Phase II economics:

$400k came from the of Laconia (beautification fund)
$500k came from federal grants
$100k came from fund raising

Phase III is purported to cost $10M (my analysis with bridges etc is actually more like $15M to $20M).

The city of Laconia (I am told) does not have money to donate with all the other projects and commitments. So, that would mean:

$4M federal grant (pro rata, if available)
$6M - $16M to be raised

If the trail goes along one of the alternate routes the cost is only a fraction as there are no bridges to build, fences to separate the train from the pedestrians, trestle bridge issues etc... The route along the frontage is fraught with issues and associated costs...

Jetskier

[Paugus]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Not at all....

So, let's look at Phase II economics:

$400k came from the of Laconia (beautification fund)
$500k came from federal grants
$100k came from fund raising

Jetskier

Thank you for providing us with these facts, Jetskier. I remember reading about NH CDFA tax credits (https://patch.com/new-hampshire/conc...ty-development), Downtown Tax Increment Financing funding (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...o-city-council) and private fundraising, but not anything about a beautification fund and federal grants.

Could this $400,000 in beautification money from Laconia and $500,000 in federal grant money you mention be reserved for Phase 3 and the pending lawsuit?

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Thank you for providing us with these facts, Jetskier. I remember reading about NH CDFA tax credits (https://patch.com/new-hampshire/conc...ty-development), Downtown Tax Increment Financing funding (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...o-city-council) and private fundraising, but not anything about a beautification fund and federal grants.

Could this $400,000 in beautification money from Laconia and $500,000 in federal grant money you mention be reserved for Phase 3 and the pending lawsuit?

Hi Paugus,

My understanding is that the $400k donated by the city came from the TIF loans (you have a link in your email which describes the $400k for phase II). I have been told that the money was placed in the budget under "beautification" of down town which is consistent with the projects listed in the linked article. I have talked to a couple of teachers who are upset about the expenditure based upon the lack of money for teacher's salaries; however, I don't know that the money would have been able to be reallocated to other purposes. It is a loan and has to be paid back by the city, so at some level, it affects the city budget as a debt service....read not free money.

The $500k came from a federal grant...All of the money was spent on Phase II (total construction cost of $1M). The federal grant is essentially free money. Private fundraising provided $100k of the costs. The WOW Org is a 501c nonprofit and their financials are public record. Their EIN number is 45-0509781 if you want to look at 990s or other records.

Hope this helps.

Jetskier

[Paugus]

Originally Posted by jetskier

The $500k came from a federal grant...All of the money was spent on Phase II (total construction cost of $1M). The federal grant is essentially free money. Private fundraising provided $100k of the costs. The WOW Org is a 501c nonprofit and their financials are public record. Their EIN number is 45-0509781 if you want to look at 990s or other records.

Hope this helps.

Jetskier

With all due respect, Jetskier, I like to be able to cite my facts and I haven't been able to track down info anywhere on this $500,000 federal grant you talk about. Will you please link the source so that we can all learn more about this type of federal funding the WOW Trail used? All of the info I can find lists the city TIF funds, NH CDFA tax credits, and private funding. Thanks in advance. Sorry to be a pain.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Paugus

With all due respect, Jetskier, I like to be able to cite my facts and I haven't been able to track down info anywhere on this $500,000 federal grant you talk about. Will you please link the source so that we can all learn more about this type of federal funding the WOW Trail used? All of the info I can find lists the city TIF funds, NH CDFA tax credits, and private funding. Thanks in advance. Sorry to be a pain.

Hi Paugus,

Look at line #3 of the 2015 balance sheet (attached) is for Phase II. There was a grant of about $61k for Phase I. The grant number is H33C22A000349 and you can find information at this link:

https://www.usaspending.gov/Pages/Ad...?k=WOW%20Trail

Incidentally, you are by no means a pain...nice to have a factual interaction.

Jetskier

[Paugus]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Hi Paugus,

Look at line #3 of the 2015 balance sheet (attached) is for Phase II. There was a grant of about $61k for Phase I. The grant number is H33C22A000349 and you can find information at this link:

https://www.usaspending.gov/Pages/Ad...?k=WOW%20Trail

Incidentally, you are by no means a pain...nice to have a factual interaction.

Jetskier

Jetskier, Thanks for the link but that grant number you provided (H33C22A000349) and all of the others listed on that usaspending.gov link are for Phase 1.
"Project Description
LACONIA; WOW TRAIL PH 1; CONSTRUCT 7040' (Segments 7-10) SHARED USE PATH IN RR CORRIDOR FROM MAIN ST TO ELM ST; [04-28TE]"

As I recall, Phase 1 was built in 2010, which makes sense given the dates of the federal grants your link mentions. I still can't find anything about a federal grant for Phase 2.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Jetskier, Thanks for the link but that grant number you provided (H33C22A000349) and all of the others listed on that usaspending.gov link are for Phase 1.
"Project Description
LACONIA; WOW TRAIL PH 1; CONSTRUCT 7040' (Segments 7-10) SHARED USE PATH IN RR CORRIDOR FROM MAIN ST TO ELM ST; [04-28TE]"

As I recall, Phase 1 was built in 2010, which makes sense given the dates of the federal grants your link mentions. I still can't find anything about a federal grant for Phase 2.

The grant was given during the Phase I period and covers both phases. The Phase I draw down was $61k which is in the WOW Org financials. The Phase II draw down was $500k (2015 financials). That is why I posted the 2015 financials.

Jetskier

[Paugus]

Anyone else see this?

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/speci...e-lakes-region

[Major]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Anyone else see this?

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/speci...e-lakes-region

Yes. He wants to purchase the Hobo Railroad and shut it down in favor of the WOW trail. You notice that he didn't come right out and say this. I had a laugh out loud moment when I read the sentence about the "transportation corridor." Yeah, like people from Laconia and Weirs are going to take the WOW trail to conduct business in Meredith! What a joke. Like I said, I'd rather he come right out and state his intentions, rather than obfuscate it under the guise of let's study the matter.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Anyone else see this?

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/speci...e-lakes-region

So South Down/Long Bay folks are going to boycott McLear's business?

[Major]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

So South Down/Long Bay folks are going to boycott McLear's business?

Since most of us own homes in SD/LB, we wouldn't have the need to stay at Mr. MeLear's hotels. Personally speaking, I don't go to Patrick's.

[Paugus]

It's unfortunate that SD/LB had to pay legal fees for this lawsuit that their attorney now says is premature. Why didn't someone check to see if the WOW Trail filed formal plans before paying an attorney to file a lawsuit?

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...n-as-premature

[Major]

Originally Posted by Paugus

It's unfortunate that SD/LB had to pay legal fees for this lawsuit that their attorney now says is premature. Why didn't someone check to see if the WOW Trail filed formal plans before paying an attorney to file a lawsuit?

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...n-as-premature

There was a lot of activity by the organizers of the WOW Trail that would lead reasonable people to believe that the submission of a plan was imminent. Only through a deposition of the WOW Trail representative was it learned that the organizers weren't close to implementing Phase III. This is NOT a big deal. Lawsuits are routinely filed and withdrawn for a variety of reasons. The present lawsuit was withdrawn without prejudice, which means that SD/LB can re-file at any time. There isn't a lot of waste, since the lawsuit is teed up and ready to file at a moment's notice. Short money in the long run.

As an aside, I was happy to read that there is little or no money for Phase III. It's going to take a lot of money to implement, so this is good news for those of us who do not want to see Phase III constructed.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Fundamentally, the route along the frontage does not make sense and the WOW Org would be well served to focus on one of the alternative routes that have been proposed. It would be less expensive, less intrusive and could be built more quickly than the route along the frontage. Tavern 27 has even offered land for a welcome center and parking.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

It is always nice to see how GREEDY people think. You do NOT own the state ROW.

Go bully some other state/city/town