New Hampshire to outlaw swimming

Island Lover · 03-02-2006, 04:00 PM

Yes, I think this law will ban swimming from an anchored boat. The boat must be able to assist the swimmer, it can't do that anchored with the engine off. It doesn't matter if the water is only 2' deep as long as its 150' from shore.

If the boat is floating with the engine on it will be legal to swim as long as there is an operator AND an observer in the boat. But I don't think getting in and out of the water while the engine is running is a good idea.

Could this be a back door attempt by waterfront property owners to limit rafting?

jrc · 03-02-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Yes, I think this law will ban swimming from an anchored boat. The boat must be able to assist the swimmer, it can't do that anchored with the engine off. It doesn't matter if the water is only 2' deep as long as its 150' from shore.

If the water is only 2' deep, I'm wading not swimming so the rule won't apply. Just don't let the marine patrol see you pull your feet up.

Winter Harbor · 03-02-2006, 04:37 PM

Most of the items i this bill seem like a good idea. The only thing I really have an issue with is the orange light they want to install. Will that really make that much of a difference? Also who is goign to pay for all those installations?

As for banning swimming from an anchored boat. I don't think they mean to stop this, it seems like all you'll need is a person (i guess 2) on the boat, ready to assist the swimmer. I don't think they want you to have you engine running.

Zee · 03-02-2006, 04:30 PM

I decided to move to NH from MA to get away from this mentality. Before you know it they are going to legislate everything like they do in Mass. This really ticks me off!

What happened to Live free or Die. This is all going a little over board (pun intended)!

fpartri497 · 03-02-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zee

I decided to move to NH from MA to get away from this mentality. Before you know it they are going to legislate everything like they do in Mass. This really ticks me off!

What happened to Live free or Die. This is all going a little over board (pun intended)!

Zee:

you hit the nail right on the head.( I moved from mass. to NH to get away from this mentality,) Thats the whole problem in a nut shell hundreds of mass. people moving here.

(Im ready to get bashed for this one)

fpartri497

CHSLTD · 03-02-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpartri497

Zee:

you hit the nail right on the head.( I moved from mass. to NH to get away from this mentality,) Thats the whole problem in a nut shell hundreds of mass. people moving here.

(Im ready to get bashed for this one)

fpartri497

The beauty is ANYONE can move here. Just like you did.

Grant · 03-02-2006, 06:35 PM

What about skinny dipping? Do I need to wear a light? If so, what color?

Skip · 03-02-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant

What about skinny dipping? Do I need to wear a light? If so, what color?

Probably in your (and my) case, a black light would be appropriate...

Now, if we also have to fly a flag??????

Remember, 150' is more than enough!

Grant · 03-02-2006, 06:47 PM

Here's a semi-related story...

One night I was taking one of my customary post-dinner "au natural" swims, enjoying a nice warm night... I stood on the very end of the dock, marveling at the stars and bright moon...when I heard a cough...I looked over at the dock next door and saw the glow of a cigarette...

The neighbors were having a little laugh (or gasp), as I was totally oblivious to their presence, despite the bright moonlight...

fpartri497 · 03-02-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHSLTD

The beauty is ANYONE can move here. Just like you did.

I didnt move here, I was Born here and will die here.

Live free or die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silver Duck · 03-02-2006, 08:36 PM

The ideas in this bill all sound pretty good to me! Some of the wording may need a bit of tweaking; for instance, larger boats often use a split white light with the forwaed-facing light having a 240 degree coverage and a transom-mounted stern light with 120 degree coverage rather than an all-around light on a pole. But, the idea of an orange light added to the mix would really help in differentiating a boat's stern light from somebody's porch light!

As for Braun Bay and the West Alton sand bar, it sounds as though the commissioner has the authority to designate them as swimming areas. No problemo!

Silver Duck

fatlazyless · 03-02-2006, 09:19 PM

Well gee whiz and holly molly, some of the things that I say are so profound that I just like to go back and read them over and over, again. If "150 is far enough' gets attributed to me, then by golly I must have said it. Even if I didn't, I'm happy to take credit for this phrase. Must have been that Forest Gump education that I received growing up, or something.

As Forest always used to say: 45mph is hardly a slow speed for a boat. Is is, in fact a very fast speed!
But what does Forest know? He was a walker and not a boater. Duh!

Skip · 03-02-2006, 09:31 PM

C'mon FLL, we've got to get it right!

Momma always said "150' ain't a short distance....In fact it is a very great distance!"

I think she also said:

Taking the on-line boating test is like gettin' a box o' candy, you just never know what your gonna get fer questions!

'Course when me & Jenny were out on the big Lake and she saw them bad ol' Marine Patrolmen come snoopin' around, I'll never ferget those words she'd always bellow out:

Run FOREST, RUNNNNN!!!!!

Bear Lover · 03-02-2006, 09:43 PM

If the opposition thinks this is funny then the supporters are rolling in the aisles.

The live free or die crowd now thinks that a state law against swimming is reasonable.

Yankee · 03-02-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpartri497

I didnt move here, I was Born here and will die here.

Live free or die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cal · 03-02-2006, 11:54 PM

Like I said a while back "Be careful what you wish for........

Well get ready people here it comes again.
I can't for the life of me figure out how humanity has survived for so long with out all these laws , rules and regulations to protect us from ourselves.
Your elected officials just keep chipping away at yours , mine amd everbody elses freedoms and you allow it to happen and sometimes even ask for it as long as it doesn't effect you!
If my wife can't sleep tonight , it will probably be from me laughing in my sleep.
And Skip, with your earlier monolog on this , you should replace Jay Leno when he retires

Lakegeezer · 03-03-2006, 12:30 AM

There are some interesting ideas in the proposed law, but it is scary that the vote could come as early as next week. The issues need to be chewed on a while - and positions need be taken. Some excellent points have already been made. This forum knows the drill. As for my take, it may be unsafe to stop the motor in the middle of the broads and jump out to swim a bit, but should it be illegal? Should the state be defining a new standard for boat lighting by requiring orange lights? NH already has unique spar standards; does it need to be more out of sync with common practices? On the other hand, I like the rule about no red/green lights on shoreline houses as I've been confused by lights on shore. A neighbor across the lake has red and green lights on their sides of their boat garage door. At night it really looks like a big boat sitting there. But, as a whole, the proposals seem to be another attempt at making laws which restrict people from taking responsibility for risky actions that usually go OK - (like going 50 in the broads on Tuesday October 8'th at 2PM) NH is trying to make life too safe at the cost of freedom. Our new motto is becoming "Live in compliance and stay safe". We should not gloat at the pro-speed-limit folks who may feel differently about this new proposal, but should welcome the dialog that exchanges our views.

ITD · 03-03-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

There are some interesting ideas in the proposed law, but it is scary that the vote could come as early as next week. The issues need to be chewed on a while - and positions need be taken. Some excellent points have already been made. This forum knows the drill. As for my take, it may be unsafe to stop the motor in the middle of the broads and jump out to swim a bit, but should it be illegal? Should the state be defining a new standard for boat lighting by requiring orange lights? NH already has unique spar standards; does it need to be more out of sync with common practices? On the other hand, I like the rule about no red/green lights on shoreline houses as I've been confused by lights on shore. A neighbor across the lake has red and green lights on their sides of their boat garage door. At night it really looks like a big boat sitting there. But, as a whole, the proposals seem to be another attempt at making laws which restrict people from taking responsibility for risky actions that usually go OK - (like going 50 in the broads on Tuesday October 8'th at 2PM) NH is trying to make life too safe at the cost of freedom. Our new motto is becoming "Live in compliance and stay safe". We should not gloat at the pro-speed-limit folks who may feel differently about this new proposal, but should welcome the dialog that exchanges our views.

LG,

You make good points, I don't think many people are happy about these new rules. I also don't think anyone is gloating, but you have to admit the comedic value when one of the most prolific pro-speed limit posters is upset because her "fatality" posts helped cause a law to be proposed that will limit an activity on the lake she obviously enjoys. A clear case of what goes around comes around. I think the whole situation is sad, they've awaken big brother like kids poking a tiger with a stick.

And the line about the backdoor attempt by waterfront owners to limit rafting, priceless.

Island Lover · 03-03-2006, 02:02 AM

I think this new law is a good idea for the most part. But before we pass a law we need to reflect on the ramifications. We have been reflecting on HB142 for about 14 months now.

Somewhere along the line it was decided to extend HB162 to all NH waters. Then they realized this included the ocean, so they made an exception for the ocean, then they realized they had no clear definition for where rivers end and oceans begin. This is what happens when you don't think it through.

I never swim more than 150' from shore. But I don't think the person that wrote this bill thought about all the ramifications.

Contrary to what has been posted the Dept of Safety will only be able to make exceptions for "operators of youth camps, swim meets, and schools, and for other water events".

The really funny moment will be when the opposition stops laughing and discovers that the swimming ban effects boaters quite a bit, and residents of Bear Island not at all.

So as far as I am concerned lets pass this bill, it has my vote.

Mike M. · 03-03-2006, 01:32 AM

I agree people shouldn't be allowed to use navigation colors on the shore. That's law makes sense for other peoples safety...

What would the fine be for swimming more than a 150' from shore? I can't even believe there is going to be a law controlling the distance you can swim from shore without a boat.

I don't think I have been in excess of a 150' for a while but the fact I will be fined for doing that isn't right.

How much freedom are people going to give up before they wake up and realize we aren't free anymore.

This should be left to common sense.

"Live free or die"

ApS · 03-03-2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

"...But, as a whole, the proposals seem to be another attempt at making laws which restrict people from taking responsibility for risky actions that usually go OK..."

1) True. I hardly ever swim, but I do a lot of "floating".

I was very unhappy to see an MP escorting two tubers closer to shore once. One was on a large tractor tube, and the other on a towing-type tube. Have Winnipesaukee speeds gotten so bad that you can't dive, kayak, fall off your skis, or even float in a tube?

2) Remember that "no-rafting" bill early last season? There could be a link to that aborted SB-155FN bill co-sponsored by Rep. Whalley of the "unlimited Winnipesaukee speeds" crowd.

3) However, it is reminiscent of New Jersey's laws regarding visibility and their high-speed boat problem. New Jersey had recent headlines about three brothers—of the same family—killed in a NJ GFBL crash.

New Jersey should worry about their allowing unlimited speeds, uninsured boaters, and still having a skier, diver, and kayak "problem". It's that same old GFBL refrain: "We can't see them". (Unless they slow down for speed bumps, but slowing is completely unacceptable). OTOH, New Jersey has the highest concentration of humans (per square mile) than even China! Perhaps the day will come that such a bill could seem reasonable for Winnipesaukee.

4) According to the Coast Guard, you can swim anywhere in the ocean! Seems these HB-1463 people have their priorities wrong. At first glance, this proposal reads like something at "The Onion" or "Scrappleface"; i.e., a parody of HB162.

5) I'd like to know who the sponsor of this bill is—if it's not a parody.

Otherwise, it's only a flat-lander reply to HB162, with one good shoreline idea thrown in—just to give it "legs".

BTW: The most sensible dock-lighting suggestion appeared here.

Zee · 03-03-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpartri497

Zee:

you hit the nail right on the head.( I moved from mass. to NH to get away from this mentality,) Thats the whole problem in a nut shell hundreds of mass. people moving here.

(Im ready to get bashed for this one)

fpartri497

Your absolutely right. I do believe the influx of Mass. liberals is having a major impact on the mentality of its legislature. I wonder how many of them are transplanted Mass. liberals. Oh...just for the record...I was born in NH, moved to Mass as a kid, moved back to NH as an adult very recently and plan to die here.

ITD · 03-04-2006, 03:50 PM

I think the only thing this bill forgot is a law that says you need to have boated on Lake Winnipesaukee more than say five times before you are allowed to twist the truth and complain how unsafe it is.

winnilaker · 03-03-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Yes, I think this law will ban swimming from an anchored boat. The boat must be able to assist the swimmer, it can't do that anchored with the engine off. It doesn't matter if the water is only 2' deep as long as its 150' from shore.

"No person may swim more than 150 feet from shore unless accompanied by a vessel with an operator and observer, one of whom has the physical capacity to assist the swimmer aboard the vessel when necessary."

Are we reading the same passage?

I read it as, the operator or observer must be able to assist, not the boat. As written, it would only prevent people swimming alone out past 150' from their boats. Folks would still be able to stop in the middle of the broads and go for a swim with the motor off. For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think you misunderstood it.

Island Lover · 03-03-2006, 09:41 AM

I agree that its a fine point, but that's the problem. It needs to be specific.

In my opinion the swimmer will not be "accompanied by a vessel with an operator and observer" if the anchor is down.

I think they wrote this without thinking of all the issues. If you are wadding across a 400' wide river are you violating this law? By a broad definition of swimming you would be.

Does this include the ocean? At some beaches you can "swim" a long way from shore at low tide.

Is a fly fisherman swimming. If a state beach has a "no swimming" sign does that mean its ok to wade, I don't think so.

Maybe Skip can tell us what the state means by "swimming".

Skip · 03-03-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Lover

...If you are wadding across a 400' wide river are you violating this law? By a broad definition of swimming you would be...maybe Skip can tell us what the state means by "swimming".

The standard definintion of swimming is to propel yourself (or remain)through the water without walking along the bottom.

I believe the State would not consider wading (as in the flyfishing example) as swimming.

I can find no direct reference to swimming in our current RSAs, researching both the boating statutes and statutes relating to water supply & pollution. As you may recall, there are separate "no swimmimng" provisions when it comes to some public water supplies, and in these cases they really mean "no bodily contact" as wading in a public water supply is just as hazardous as swimming in it.

Yep, it needs work...that is why the process will carry it from the House to the Senate and eventually (if it makes it) to the Governor's desk, open for ammendment and clarification along the way, just as HB162 has evolved.

In the end though it will be up to the Court to decide what swimming is. It will probably be treated like pornography is now....to paraphrase a late & great Supreme Court justice: we may not be able to easily define what it is, but we'll know what it is when we see it!

All joking aside, expect healthy ammendments to the be applied to this bill as it weaves its way through Concord. And remember, hyperbole breeds hyperbole. Folks on both sides of the HB 162 issue by greatly puffing some of the perceived dangers on Lake Winnipesaukee have now awoken the Government. Most times that is not a very good thing!

I am awaiting some information from the sponsors on some of the intents in this legislation....but I am soon departing to go snowmobiling for the weekend, but I'll post back any responses I get on this issue when I get back.

Everyone be safe & have a fun weekend!

Skip

SIKSUKR · 03-03-2006, 10:22 AM

Ahh yes!Finally the liberal mentality is settling into NH so it can protect me from any stupid thing I might do.Thank goodness.I was just thinking of swimming out to the broads and hanging out for a couple hours.Maybe watching them dang 200 mph boats wiz by my head.Huh huhh!!Boy that would be fun.I was thinking we should probably outlaw going outside the house cuz I might walk into the road and get hit by one of them motorcycle people,who should be wearing helmets by the way,or one of those crazy cars with the driver not wearing their seatbelt.I may not find my way back home so I could probably sue someone right?I think we should have a law that eveyone needs to have a spotter when they go to the bathroom.What happens if I fall in the shower or even worse,in the toilet.There should be a law to guard me from this danger right?We need a law that keeps me from burning my tongue on hot coffee.And what about that fattening fast food?Ban it!Thanks to the the thoughtfull ones who watch out for me and guard me from myself. Hey,does this law mean that if I fall off my PWC and decide to hang out in the water for a bit I'll be fined?

Zee · 03-03-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Ahh yes!Finally the liberal mentality is settling into NH so it can protect me from any stupid thing I might do.Thank goodness.I was just thinking of swimming out to the broads and hanging out for a couple hours.Maybe watching them dang 200 mph boats wiz by my head.Huh huhh!!Boy that would be fun.I was thinking we should probably outlaw going outside the house cuz I might walk into the road and get hit by one of them motorcycle people,who should be wearing helmets by the way,or one of those crazy cars with the driver not wearing their seatbelt.I may not find my way back home so I could probably sue someone right?I think we should have a law that eveyone needs to have a spotter when they go to the bathroom.What happens if I fall in the shower or even worse,in the toilet.There should be a law to guard me from this danger right?We need a law that keeps me from burning my tongue on hot coffee.And what about that fattening fast food?Ban it!Thanks to the the thoughtfull ones who watch out for me and guard me from myself. Hey,does this law mean that if I fall off my PWC and decide to hang out in the water for a bit I'll be fined?

SIKSUKR---You took my breath away. I couldn't have said it better myself. When will it all end?

jrc · 03-03-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

.... Hey,does this law mean that if I fall off my PWC and decide to hang out in the water for a bit I'll be fined?

No, it means you have to drown because it's illegal to swim.

What will these people think of next.

xstrapolator · 03-04-2006, 08:38 AM

Edited to remove what became a duplicate post after the board administrator moved my posting into this thread where it belonged.

jrc · 03-04-2006, 11:43 AM

So now we have:

1 Flag or whistle for paddlers

2 Flag for boats with downed skiers

3 No shore lights that look like boats

4 Boater education must have proctored exam

5 If you're forced to take boater education because you broke another rule it has to be in a classroom.

6 effective 1/1/2007

Well at least the real silly stuff is gone.

1. I'm sure the paddlers will be annoyed, but I can't imagine carrying a whistle is onerous enough to muster the troops against the law. If I was as worried as some of the people say they are I'd carry a canned air horn, only $5 at Walmart.

2. Again, not onerous enough to garner widespread opposition. Another $5 problem.

3. Too inclusive as written, but conceptually who will have a problem with this.

4. Annoys me because I took the online test and didn't cheat. But I can see abuse is possible. I don't think there will be widespread opposition.

5. and 6. OK

Evenstar · 03-04-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

1. I'm sure the paddlers will be annoyed, but I can't imagine carrying a whistle is onerous enough to muster the troops against the law. If I was as worried as some of the people say they are I'd carry a canned air horn, only $5 at Walmart.

Most of the kayakers that I know who go out on lakes already carry a whistle. A good whistle has a fairly long range. Air horns are not a bad idea, and I do know of paddlers who carry them. The advantage of a whistle is that they are small and can be worn around the neck. I keep one in my pfd zippered pouch, along with a signal mirror. An air horn has to be stowed, so it's not as fast to get to. Plus, if you end up swimming, you might not be able to get to the air horn in your boat.

ApS · 03-04-2006, 04:06 PM

Since feral boats have invaded Winnipesaukee, mandatory whistles are another archaic throwback.

A whistle might attract the attention of people on shore, but they'll do nothing for a boater being in the sights of a 4½-ton missile. Same with an air horn. By the time you've located the source of the noise, it's too late. Plus, some people use air horns for "fun".

Just last month, I heard an air horn being used repeatedly. From my Florida shoreline perspective, I could see nothing wrong. Other shorepersons and boatpersons nearby were amused or merely curious.

All the passengers were in the bow, with the outboard countering their weight. The boat appeared level and normal. What was happening is that this pontoon boat was sinking while carrying eight picnickers!

It was only when the bow was lifted well above the water that it was clear what was happening. Everyone was in the water before help arrived. An aluminum rowboat assisted—then another pontoon boat (Florida, remember) carried the soaked passengers to back to the boat ramp.

Really, if you need to be noticed, a whistle belayed to your PFD is probably better than an air horn in the cabin—but nothing beats a signal mirror. A whistle is my backup for sunless days, but what good does it do when the missile "driver" can't hear the voices of his own passengers?

If you're ever in harm's way, which is happening more and more today, you need a mirror.

I've been using a cast-off CD. The surface reflects nearly as well as a mirror, is not as fragile as a first-surface mirror, and leaves no dangerous sharp edges should it break. (They do break). I also wouldn't carry anything smaller than a CD-sized mirror, and you need to practice in its "aiming". Select a PFD with a pocket that will accept a CD.

The boat was not marked for the night, and remained in place until the next day. This photo was taken an hour later, with a debris field of coolers and other flotsam trailing off downwind.

In and amongst the debris field, there was probably an air horn.

03-02-2006, 04:30 PM	#4
Zee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Union Wharf, Tuftonboro Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post	Give me a break! I decided to move to NH from MA to get away from this mentality. Before you know it they are going to legislate everything like they do in Mass. This really ticks me off! What happened to Live free or Die. This is all going a little over board (pun intended)!

03-02-2006, 06:35 PM	#7
Grant Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pennsyltuckey, Tuftonboro, Moultonborough Posts: 1,503 Thanks: 382 Thanked 231 Times in 125 Posts	What about skinny dipping? Do I need to wear a light? If so, what color? __________________ "When I die, please don't let my wife sell my dive gear for what I told her I paid for it."

03-02-2006, 06:47 PM	#9
Grant Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pennsyltuckey, Tuftonboro, Moultonborough Posts: 1,503 Thanks: 382 Thanked 231 Times in 125 Posts	Here's a semi-related story... One night I was taking one of my customary post-dinner "au natural" swims, enjoying a nice warm night... I stood on the very end of the dock, marveling at the stars and bright moon...when I heard a cough...I looked over at the dock next door and saw the glow of a cigarette... The neighbors were having a little laugh (or gasp), as I was totally oblivious to their presence, despite the bright moonlight... __________________ "When I die, please don't let my wife sell my dive gear for what I told her I paid for it."

03-02-2006, 08:36 PM	#11
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Serious safety improvements The ideas in this bill all sound pretty good to me! Some of the wording may need a bit of tweaking; for instance, larger boats often use a split white light with the forwaed-facing light having a 240 degree coverage and a transom-mounted stern light with 120 degree coverage rather than an all-around light on a pole. But, the idea of an orange light added to the mix would really help in differentiating a boat's stern light from somebody's porch light! As for Braun Bay and the West Alton sand bar, it sounds as though the commissioner has the authority to designate them as swimming areas. No problemo! Silver Duck

03-02-2006, 09:19 PM	#12
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,805 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,026 Times in 746 Posts	...well golly gee willikers! Well gee whiz and holly molly, some of the things that I say are so profound that I just like to go back and read them over and over, again. If "150 is far enough' gets attributed to me, then by golly I must have said it. Even if I didn't, I'm happy to take credit for this phrase. Must have been that Forest Gump education that I received growing up, or something. As Forest always used to say: 45mph is hardly a slow speed for a boat. Is is, in fact a very fast speed! But what does Forest know? He was a walker and not a boater. Duh!

03-02-2006, 04:00 PM	#1
Island Lover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 213 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	Yes, I think this law will ban swimming from an anchored boat. The boat must be able to assist the swimmer, it can't do that anchored with the engine off. It doesn't matter if the water is only 2' deep as long as its 150' from shore. If the boat is floating with the engine on it will be legal to swim as long as there is an operator AND an observer in the boat. But I don't think getting in and out of the water while the engine is running is a good idea. Could this be a back door attempt by waterfront property owners to limit rafting?

03-02-2006, 04:37 PM	#3
Winter Harbor Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Most of the items i this bill seem like a good idea. The only thing I really have an issue with is the orange light they want to install. Will that really make that much of a difference? Also who is goign to pay for all those installations? As for banning swimming from an anchored boat. I don't think they mean to stop this, it seems like all you'll need is a person (i guess 2) on the boat, ready to assist the swimmer. I don't think they want you to have you engine running.

03-02-2006, 09:31 PM	#13
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Ah, Gumpisms C'mon FLL, we've got to get it right! Momma always said "150' ain't a short distance....In fact it is a very great distance!" I think she also said: Taking the on-line boating test is like gettin' a box o' candy, you just never know what your gonna get fer questions! 'Course when me & Jenny were out on the big Lake and she saw them bad ol' Marine Patrolmen come snoopin' around, I'll never ferget those words she'd always bellow out: *Run FOREST, RUNNNNN!!!!!*

03-02-2006, 09:43 PM	#14
Bear Lover Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If the opposition thinks this is funny then the supporters are rolling in the aisles. The live free or die crowd now thinks that a state law against swimming is reasonable.

03-02-2006, 11:54 PM	#16
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	Like I said a while back "Be careful what you wish for........ Well get ready people here it comes again. I can't for the life of me figure out how humanity has survived for so long with out all these laws , rules and regulations to protect us from ourselves. Your elected officials just keep chipping away at yours , mine amd everbody elses freedoms and you allow it to happen and sometimes even ask for it as long as it doesn't effect you! If my wife can't sleep tonight , it will probably be from me laughing in my sleep. And Skip, with your earlier monolog on this , you should replace Jay Leno when he retires Attached Images __________________ Paddle faster , I think I here banjos

03-03-2006, 12:30 AM	#17
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,680 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 355 Thanked 640 Times in 291 Posts	Not funny There are some interesting ideas in the proposed law, but it is scary that the vote could come as early as next week. The issues need to be chewed on a while - and positions need be taken. Some excellent points have already been made. This forum knows the drill. As for my take, it may be unsafe to stop the motor in the middle of the broads and jump out to swim a bit, but should it be illegal? Should the state be defining a new standard for boat lighting by requiring orange lights? NH already has unique spar standards; does it need to be more out of sync with common practices? On the other hand, I like the rule about no red/green lights on shoreline houses as I've been confused by lights on shore. A neighbor across the lake has red and green lights on their sides of their boat garage door. At night it really looks like a big boat sitting there. But, as a whole, the proposals seem to be another attempt at making laws which restrict people from taking responsibility for risky actions that usually go OK - (like going 50 in the broads on Tuesday October 8'th at 2PM) NH is trying to make life too safe at the cost of freedom. Our new motto is becoming "Live in compliance and stay safe". We should not gloat at the pro-speed-limit folks who may feel differently about this new proposal, but should welcome the dialog that exchanges our views. __________________ -lg

03-03-2006, 02:02 AM	#19
Island Lover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 213 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	I think this new law is a good idea for the most part. But before we pass a law we need to reflect on the ramifications. We have been reflecting on HB142 for about 14 months now. Somewhere along the line it was decided to extend HB162 to all NH waters. Then they realized this included the ocean, so they made an exception for the ocean, then they realized they had no clear definition for where rivers end and oceans begin. This is what happens when you don't think it through. I never swim more than 150' from shore. But I don't think the person that wrote this bill thought about all the ramifications. Contrary to what has been posted the Dept of Safety will only be able to make exceptions for "operators of youth camps, swim meets, and schools, and for other water events". The really funny moment will be when the opposition stops laughing and discovers that the swimming ban effects boaters quite a bit, and residents of Bear Island not at all. So as far as I am concerned lets pass this bill, it has my vote.

03-03-2006, 01:32 AM	#20
Mike M. Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 40 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I agree people shouldn't be allowed to use navigation colors on the shore. That's law makes sense for other peoples safety... What would the fine be for swimming more than a 150' from shore? I can't even believe there is going to be a law controlling the distance you can swim from shore without a boat. I don't think I have been in excess of a 150' for a while but the fact I will be fined for doing that isn't right. How much freedom are people going to give up before they wake up and realize we aren't free anymore. This should be left to common sense. "Live free or die"

03-04-2006, 03:50 PM	#23
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,937 Thanks: 479 Thanked 695 Times in 390 Posts	I think the only thing this bill forgot is a law that says you need to have boated on Lake Winnipesaukee more than say five times before you are allowed to twist the truth and complain how unsafe it is.

03-03-2006, 09:41 AM	#25
Island Lover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 213 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	I agree that its a fine point, but that's the problem. It needs to be specific. In my opinion the swimmer will not be "accompanied by a vessel with an operator and observer" if the anchor is down. I think they wrote this without thinking of all the issues. If you are wadding across a 400' wide river are you violating this law? By a broad definition of swimming you would be. Does this include the ocean? At some beaches you can "swim" a long way from shore at low tide. Is a fly fisherman swimming. If a state beach has a "no swimming" sign does that mean its ok to wade, I don't think so. Maybe Skip can tell us what the state means by "swimming".

03-03-2006, 10:22 AM	#27
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Ahh yes!Finally the liberal mentality is settling into NH so it can protect me from any stupid thing I might do.Thank goodness.I was just thinking of swimming out to the broads and hanging out for a couple hours.Maybe watching them dang 200 mph boats wiz by my head.Huh huhh!!Boy that would be fun.I was thinking we should probably outlaw going outside the house cuz I might walk into the road and get hit by one of them motorcycle people,who should be wearing helmets by the way,or one of those crazy cars with the driver not wearing their seatbelt.I may not find my way back home so I could probably sue someone right?I think we should have a law that eveyone needs to have a spotter when they go to the bathroom.What happens if I fall in the shower or even worse,in the toilet.There should be a law to guard me from this danger right?We need a law that keeps me from burning my tongue on hot coffee.And what about that fattening fast food?Ban it!Thanks to the the thoughtfull ones who watch out for me and guard me from myself. Hey,does this law mean that if I fall off my PWC and decide to hang out in the water for a bit I'll be fined? __________________ SIKSUKR

03-04-2006, 08:38 AM	#30
xstrapolator Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Edited to remove what became a duplicate post after the board administrator moved my posting into this thread where it belonged. Last edited by xstrapolator; 03-04-2006 at 02:15 PM.

03-04-2006, 11:43 AM	#31
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	So now we have: 1 Flag or whistle for paddlers 2 Flag for boats with downed skiers 3 No shore lights that look like boats 4 Boater education must have proctored exam 5 If you're forced to take boater education because you broke another rule it has to be in a classroom. 6 effective 1/1/2007 Well at least the real silly stuff is gone. 1. I'm sure the paddlers will be annoyed, but I can't imagine carrying a whistle is onerous enough to muster the troops against the law. If I was as worried as some of the people say they are I'd carry a canned air horn, only $5 at Walmart. 2. Again, not onerous enough to garner widespread opposition. Another $5 problem. 3. Too inclusive as written, but conceptually who will have a problem with this. 4. Annoys me because I took the online test and didn't cheat. But I can see abuse is possible. I don't think there will be widespread opposition. 5. and 6. OK

03-04-2006, 04:06 PM	#33
ApS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro Posts: 5,951 Thanks: 2,226 Thanked 781 Times in 557 Posts	MANDATORY Noise-Makers? Since feral boats have invaded Winnipesaukee, mandatory whistles are another archaic throwback. A whistle might attract the attention of people on shore, but they'll do nothing for a boater being in the sights of a 4½-ton missile. Same with an air horn. By the time you've located the source of the noise, it's too late. Plus, some people use air horns for "fun". Just last month, I heard an air horn being used repeatedly. From my Florida shoreline perspective, I could see nothing wrong. Other shorepersons and boatpersons nearby were amused or merely curious. All the passengers were in the bow, with the outboard countering their weight. The boat appeared level and normal. What was happening is that this pontoon boat was sinking while carrying eight picnickers! It was only when the bow was lifted well above the water that it was clear what was happening. Everyone was in the water before help arrived. An aluminum rowboat assisted—then another pontoon boat (Florida, remember) carried the soaked passengers to back to the boat ramp. Really, if you need to be noticed, a whistle belayed to your PFD is probably better than an air horn in the cabin—but nothing beats a signal mirror. A whistle is my backup for sunless days, but what good does it do when the missile "driver" can't hear the voices of his own passengers? If you're ever in harm's way, which is happening more and more today, you need a mirror. I've been using a cast-off CD. The surface reflects nearly as well as a mirror, is not as fragile as a first-surface mirror, and leaves no dangerous sharp edges should it break. (They do break). I also wouldn't carry anything smaller than a CD-sized mirror, and you need to practice in its "aiming". Select a PFD with a pocket that will accept a CD. The boat was not marked for the night, and remained in place until the next day. This photo was taken an hour later, with a debris field of coolers and other flotsam trailing off downwind. In and amongst the debris field, there was probably an air horn. Attached Images