Can We Live On Winni for $450k?

FlyingScot · 09-03-2017, 10:24 AM

My curiosity piqued again, I took a second look. It is a nice spot on the lake, but it is only 0.28 acre. Septic capacity is determined in part based on total acreage. My guess--based only on memory of hearing calculations of other properties--is that the septic capacity of the lot is 2 bedrooms. So a new buyer would not be able to build as much as most would like after dropping $500K on just the land.

thinkxingu · 09-03-2017, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterG

My curiosity piqued again, I took a second look. It is a nice spot on the lake, but it is only 0.28 acre. Septic capacity is determined in part based on total acreage. My guess--based only on memory of hearing calculations of other properties--is that the septic capacity of the lot is 2 bedrooms. So a new buyer would not be able to build as much as most would like after dropping $500K on just the land.

Maybe, but it's listed as 3 bedroom and, even though people sometimes add more bedrooms than their septic "allows," realtors usually won't list any more bedrooms than septic capacity. Besides, 1/3 of an acre isn't all that small for the average waterfront, right?

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MAXUM · 09-03-2017, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Maybe, but it's listed as 3 bedroom and, even though people sometimes add more bedrooms than their septic "allows," realtors usually won't list any more bedrooms than septic capacity. Besides, 1/3 of an acre isn't all that small for the average waterfront, right?

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1/3 of an acre could get a bit tricky if one is trying to get both a well and septic in considering all the setback requirements.

Just Sold · 09-03-2017, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Maybe, but it's listed as 3 bedroom and, even though people sometimes add more bedrooms than their septic "allows," realtors usually won't list any more bedrooms than septic capacity. Besides, 1/3 of an acre isn't all that small for the average waterfront, right?

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Just to clarify. The number of bedrooms or baths does not make a property year round. Septic systems do not make a property year round either. Local and state regulations control that but in this case, the listing specified cottage/camp which would be understood as not year round. Also not having a foundation (on post and piers) is an indication of not being year round.

thinkxingu · 09-03-2017, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Just to clarify. The number of bedrooms or baths does not make a property year round. Septic systems do not make a property year round either. Local and state regulations control that but in this case, the listing specified cottage/camp which would be understood as not year round. Also not having a foundation (on post and piers) is an indication of not being year round.

Right--we were just discussing the appropriateness of the value/asking price.

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FlyingScot · 09-03-2017, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Maybe, but it's listed as 3 bedroom and, even though people sometimes add more bedrooms than their septic "allows," realtors usually won't list any more bedrooms than septic capacity. Besides, 1/3 of an acre isn't all that small for the average waterfront, right?

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I am not an expert, but as I understand it, septics on old homes are basically grandfathered, but you're limited on what you can do with the home. You will not get a building permit to rebuild or add more bedrooms, and you will fail the buyer's inspection when you try to sell.

In 2015 we walked away from a signed P&S to buy a 4 bedroom home because the lot could not support more than 2.4 bedrooms.

Doobs41378 · 09-03-2017, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterG

I am not an expert, but as I understand it, septics on old homes are basically grandfathered, but you're limited on what you can do with the home. You will not get a building permit to rebuild or add more bedrooms, and you will fail the buyer's inspection when you try to sell.

In 2015 we walked away from a signed P&S to buy a 4 bedroom home because the lot could not support more than 2.4 bedrooms.

What would .4 bedroom look like?

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JasonG · 09-05-2017, 12:25 PM

I know beggars cannot be choosers...but with two teenage kids I need to keep entertained, this looks to be in the middle of nowhere. I would love it....but would my sanity?

Biggd · 09-05-2017, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonG

I know beggars cannot be choosers...but with two teenage kids I need to keep entertained, this looks to be in the middle of nowhere. I would love it....but would my sanity?

At tht price point you may want to try looking at other lakes in the area.

FlyingScot · 09-05-2017, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonG

I know beggars cannot be choosers...but with two teenage kids I need to keep entertained, this looks to be in the middle of nowhere. I would love it....but would my sanity?

That's a good point. It's a beautiful spot, but I can see how teens would prefer the southern end of the lake.

thinkxingu · 09-05-2017, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterG

That's a good point. It's a beautiful spot, but I can see how teens would prefer the southern end of the lake.

No offense, fellas, but buying a half million home for a couple kids who will most likely moving on--at least for a while--in a few years? And how much in the south is better for teens? The Weirs? Traffic?!

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winni83 · 09-05-2017, 04:30 PM

Each area of the Lake has its own advantages and disadvantages. We bought a small house in the far northern part of the Lake in 1983 when our kids were 9 and 6. Never had an issue with the kids wishing they were in an area with more "action". In fact, they never wanted to go back to our main house. Now the same thing is true with our grandchildren, the oldest of whom is 14. A few years ago we tore down the house, build a new house, sold the main house and moved up to the same old spot permanently. When making that decision, we thought long and hard about selling the existing Lake house and looking elsewhere on the Lake but it was a pretty easy decision to stay put.

FlyingScot · 09-05-2017, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

No offense, fellas, but buying a half million home for a couple kids who will most likely moving on--at least for a while--in a few years? And how much in the south is better for teens? The Weirs? Traffic?!

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No offense taken. I prefer the north myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority. When we were in the market to buy (2014-15), the southern places were definitely more expensive on an apples to apples basis. Our (excellent) real estate agent explained that most people liked to be near the Broads and restaurants.

shard77 · 09-06-2017, 03:36 PM

My wife and I bought a house in Moultonborough in 2010 for quite a bit under your budget. It was built in 2007, has 3.5 baths, 3 bedrooms, and a finished basement.

We live across the street from the lake. No water views due to trees and have an access to the lake via a town-owned easement (Enough to walk down to the water, but that's about it). A smaller, older house up the street that is on the water sold for about $900K last year so that gives you an idea of what water front/water views add to the price.

Bottom line, if you're willing to give up the water front/water views, I think you could find something near the water that would work in your price range.

FYI - taxes are great in Moultonborough.

Descant · 09-06-2017, 05:02 PM

Looking at the tax card for the property in question indicates that almost all the value is in the land, $74K for the buildings The total assessed value has been declining for the last three years in a market that is growing. It appears the current owner paid $520K in 2007 just before the RE market crashed, along with the rest of the economy. She put the property into a new trust less than a year ago. I'm not a tax person, but I wonder if the new trust allows a better tax deal for taking a loss on the sale of the property?

For the septic discussion. A non-compliant system is "grandfathered" until it fa-fails, then it has to be brought up to code. Banks have different approaches to this. DES will allow some exceptions in the new design/build so that somebody isn't thrown out of their home. Some RE Agents do not cross check, but sometimes a seller will insist that a home be listed as 3 BR or some other feature. When the house is appraised for a mortgage, the appraiser will definitely check BR with Septic design. And the RE Agent can tell the seller "I told you so." If they don't match, the bank will not write the loan or will perhaps require new system upgrades as part of the deal.

If you go back a couple of sales, you'll see that GEM Realty Trust was an owner, looks like twice.. If you Google GEW Realty Trust, you get:
GEM Realty Trust v. First N/B, Boston CV-93-606-SD 05/18/95
http://www.nhd.uscourts.gov/sites/de...95/95SD044.pdf

Verrry interesting...

09-06-2017, 05:02 PM	#15
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,407 Thanks: 1,362 Thanked 1,634 Times in 1,066 Posts	Where's the value? Looking at the tax card for the property in question indicates that almost all the value is in the land, $74K for the buildings The total assessed value has been declining for the last three years in a market that is growing. It appears the current owner paid $520K in 2007 just before the RE market crashed, along with the rest of the economy. She put the property into a new trust less than a year ago. I'm not a tax person, but I wonder if the new trust allows a better tax deal for taking a loss on the sale of the property? For the septic discussion. A non-compliant system is "grandfathered" until it fa-fails, then it has to be brought up to code. Banks have different approaches to this. DES will allow some exceptions in the new design/build so that somebody isn't thrown out of their home. Some RE Agents do not cross check, but sometimes a seller will insist that a home be listed as 3 BR or some other feature. When the house is appraised for a mortgage, the appraiser will definitely check BR with Septic design. And the RE Agent can tell the seller "I told you so." If they don't match, the bank will not write the loan or will perhaps require new system upgrades as part of the deal. If you go back a couple of sales, you'll see that GEM Realty Trust was an owner, looks like twice.. If you Google GEW Realty Trust, you get: GEM Realty Trust v. First N/B, Boston CV-93-606-SD 05/18/95 http://www.nhd.uscourts.gov/sites/de...95/95SD044.pdf Verrry interesting...

09-03-2017, 10:24 AM	#1
FlyingScot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA Posts: 2,416 Thanks: 1,319 Thanked 1,029 Times in 637 Posts	My curiosity piqued again, I took a second look. It is a nice spot on the lake, but it is only 0.28 acre. Septic capacity is determined in part based on total acreage. My guess--based only on memory of hearing calculations of other properties--is that the septic capacity of the lot is 2 bedrooms. So a new buyer would not be able to build as much as most would like after dropping $500K on just the land.

09-05-2017, 12:25 PM	#8
JasonG Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 310 Thanks: 48 Thanked 45 Times in 33 Posts	I know beggars cannot be choosers...but with two teenage kids I need to keep entertained, this looks to be in the middle of nowhere. I would love it....but would my sanity?

09-05-2017, 04:30 PM	#12
winni83 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 435 Thanks: 17 Thanked 213 Times in 135 Posts	Each area of the Lake has its own advantages and disadvantages. We bought a small house in the far northern part of the Lake in 1983 when our kids were 9 and 6. Never had an issue with the kids wishing they were in an area with more "action". In fact, they never wanted to go back to our main house. Now the same thing is true with our grandchildren, the oldest of whom is 14. A few years ago we tore down the house, build a new house, sold the main house and moved up to the same old spot permanently. When making that decision, we thought long and hard about selling the existing Lake house and looking elsewhere on the Lake but it was a pretty easy decision to stay put.

09-06-2017, 03:36 PM	#14
shard77 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	My wife and I bought a house in Moultonborough in 2010 for quite a bit under your budget. It was built in 2007, has 3.5 baths, 3 bedrooms, and a finished basement. We live across the street from the lake. No water views due to trees and have an access to the lake via a town-owned easement (Enough to walk down to the water, but that's about it). A smaller, older house up the street that is on the water sold for about $900K last year so that gives you an idea of what water front/water views add to the price. Bottom line, if you're willing to give up the water front/water views, I think you could find something near the water that would work in your price range. FYI - taxes are great in Moultonborough.