Another damaging wind event

[JEEPONLY]

I have spoken, more than once, to some that work for power companies in this area, about preventive tree trimming. The response has always been that they don't do anything (cutting down trees, branches, etc.) until there is a problem.

If I understand Tilton BB, they have come to help, in advance.

Who don't I know?

[smith point boater]

Power (and cable etc) came back on overnite

[tis]

Some people are still out though.

[ishoot308]

A lot of Gilford especially along Lake Shore Rd (Route 11) is still out. We were told not to expect power until sometime on Friday... Welch Island is still out as well.

Dan

[sum-r breeze]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

I have spoken, more than once, to some that work for power companies in this area, about preventive tree trimming. The response has always been that they don't do anything (cutting down trees, branches, etc.) until there is a problem.

If I understand Tilton BB, they have come to help, in advance.

Who don't I know?

Last Fall I think.... the Eversource tree crews were cutting everything back all along Rte11B everywhere the power lines are stretched from the Weirs all the way to Patrick's in Gilford. So they do cut some of the trees away.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

[Broken Glass]

I received a call this morning from NHEC that the power was restored. I went over to the island, and there is still no power. I have notified NHEC that the power was still out on the island. I took a ride around the island and i was the only boat out there. I am not sure the power company will come out with only one call reporting the outage.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Broken Glass

I am not sure the power company will come out with only one call reporting the outage.

They won't...That's why I recommended previously that anyone with a dock bubbler or camera should call in and report the outage. If no one calls in it will stay that way till spring.

Dan

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by sum-r breeze

Last Fall I think.... the Eversource tree crews were cutting everything back all along Rte11B everywhere the power lines are stretched from the Weirs all the way to Patrick's in Gilford. So they do cut some of the trees away.

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

It may be that they only cover areas that affect large numbers of customers. On the two different residential roads I've inquired about, the response was a negative.

On the other hand, even though I had to wait till after the fact, the crews of NHEC did show up quickly to take down the trees. Yes, I did have to cut up and remove everything. Happy to have it taken down- removing it, I guess, is just a part of having the great quality of life we have here!

[Barney Bear]

Our contractor called Monday morning to advise that our small seasonal dock was destroyed and was blown against our permanent main dock, and several trees have been partially uprooted and are leaning against adjacent trees. Other properties on East Bear Island sustained damage from the 68 mph southerly wind that arrived late Sunday. We still have no power (Eversource) here at home in southern NH.

In early October, NHEC cleared large areas below and adjacent to the power line behind our cottage. 🐻

[Descant]

We're closed for the season and don't use dock bubblers, so o power isn't a huge worry. I'm more concerned as to whether or no there is a tree in my living room. Anybody still on Welch aware of major blowdowns, esp on the south side? TIA

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Descant

We're closed for the season and don't use dock bubblers, so o power isn't a huge worry. I'm more concerned as to whether or no there is a tree in my living room. Anybody still on Welch aware of major blowdowns, esp on the south side? TIA

I’m going out on Friday and this weekend and can check for you if you want.

PM me through this board if you want me to check on anything...

Dan

[ApS]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

I have spoken, more than once, to some that work for power companies in this area, about preventive tree trimming. The response has always been that they don't do anything (cutting down trees, branches, etc.) until there is a problem. If I understand Tilton BB, they have come to help, in advance. Who don't I know?

It appears trees "support one another" when in a woodsy environment.

Makes sense to me. When a major tree-cutter visited my part of the woods, he cut out most of the marketable trees. A week after he left, a windstorm took out nearly everything he'd left behind.

The same extent of damage—all around this scene.

.

[ishoot308]

I must be the last person in Gilford who still has no power!...

Sheesh!

[Rattlesnake Gal]

What a storm! We have been on The Broads side of Rattlesnake Island for 15 seasons now. We have been through countless storms, even hurricanes and had less damage and debris than this beast left behind!!! We lost a bunch of trees, thankfully they all missed the camp and walkways. We did, however, lose our two wooden seasonal docks. On a happy note, we recently submitted an application for slightly wider welded aluminum docks. With luck, the permit will go through with the new changes we wanted to make, so Mike Metcalfe, of Winnipesaukee Island Services, can install it first thing in the spring. Our neighbor has a similar dock setup to ours that Mike put in a few years ago and they weathered the storm much easier than our old woodies did. Funny that we were hesitant to remove the docks before we had the permit. Mother Nature took away our choice. Lol.

Be careful out there! Our dock panels that were screwed down with 3' screws are all gone. Likey they are smashed on the shore somewhere. I am kinda sad about that because I had plans for them. The docks are tethered and we will sure them up even more this Saturday. Mike and is crew will be dismanteling them as soon as he can get to it.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Video of some of the damage.


https://youtu.be/i3_hVYSr8Io

[Island Girl]

That is quite a lot of damage. I am so sorry. I suppose the fact that you were planning to replace eases the pain a bit.

We hope to go to our camp in a day or two. NHEC says maybe next week for power as we are not a priority.


A reminder to boaters, there may well be a lot of debris out in the lake from the storm just waiting to take out your lower unit or hull!

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

That is quite a lot of damage. I am so sorry. I suppose the fact that you were planning to replace eases the pain a bit.

We hope to go to our camp in a day or two. NHEC says maybe next week for power as we are not a priority.


A reminder to boaters, there may well be a lot of debris out in the lake from the storm just waiting to take out your lower unit or hull!

I thought about the debris as I headed out of Glendale tonight...rode out slowly with the docking lights on...strange to see everything so dark!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

Video of some of the damage.


https://youtu.be/i3_hVYSr8Io

Bummer Celia. You took a hard hit.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

What a storm! We have been on The Broads side of Rattlesnake Island for 15 seasons now. We have been through countless storms, even hurricanes and had less damage and debris than this beast left behind!!! We lost a bunch of trees, thankfully they all missed the camp and walkways. We did, however, lose our two wooden seasonal docks. On a happy note, we recently submitted an application for slightly wider welded aluminum docks. With luck, the permit will go through with the new changes we wanted to make, so Mike Metcalfe, of Winnipesaukee Island Services, can install it first thing in the spring. Our neighbor has a similar dock setup to ours that Mike put in a few years ago and they weathered the storm much easier than our old woodies did. Funny that we were hesitant to remove the docks before we had the permit. Mother Nature took away our choice. Lol.

Be careful out there! Our dock panels that were screwed down with 3' screws are all gone. Likely they are smashed on the shore somewhere. I am kinda sad about that because I had plans for them. The docks are tethered and we will sure them up even more this Saturday. Mike and his crew will be dismanteling them as soon as he can get to it.

Hurricane Irma came up through central Florida, and dismanteled dozens of docks on my lake. I've recovered neighbors' decking that washed up on my shoreline, and could build my own dock out of them. Insurance (less a significant deductible) is replacing some of those docks with new ones, but I think the choice of fasteners would have made a big difference.

This year, Central Florida's lakes were kept at an unusually high level.

Analyzing RG's use of 3" screws, most 3" nails were pulled out here, making for very hazardous debris on shore. Torx® screws snapped off. Composite lumber simply pulled-through inadequate screw heads.

Old and weathered 2-inch PT yellow pine boards stayed together, but it was the failing of fasteners that resulted in docks that "disappeared". More than you wanted to know about dock fasteners.

Twenty-five years ago, to build a 150'-long dock—common among Florida's shallow lakes—I bought a gazillion 4" stainless-steel lag-bolts at 50¢ each. When I moved from there, I unscrewed all those pricey s/s lag-bolts and replaced them with fasteners that cost 90% less. Less than a year later, the new owner had the entire dock replaced—and added a boathouse at the end. (Phew).

Meanwhile, I'm still using those same s/s lag-bolts. Since they're like man-cave jewelry to us homeowners, I'll take the time necessary to straighten out those that get damaged. When the use of a three-inch lag-bolt is unavoidable, I just lop an inch off the end and grind a new point.

If I'm reading Winnipesaukee's lake-level correctly, was Lake Winnipesaukee at an unusual level for Autumn? (Like Florida's lakes—"high").

Had the lake been at its customary low level, would there have been less destruction?

Photos of a neighbor's post-Irma dock and composite lumber failure below.

.

[fatlazyless]

4" x 5/16" ss lag screws now go for about 2.39-each.

[tis]

APS, the water was very low before the storm. A couple days prior to the storm, we got heavy rain and then the storm, and the lake came up quickly. My friend said their weather station detected 7 inches of rain.

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I must be the last person in Gilford who still has no power!...

Sheesh!

Nope...they're talking monday or tuesday for us!

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by steve-on-mark

Nope...they're talking monday or tuesday for us!

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Yeah but I wasn’t including any of the islands! After just seeing what happened on Welch island, I don’t expect electricity back on out there till spring!

Still no power at my mainland home in Gilford!

Dan

[chipj29]

My buddy recently bought a fixer-upper camp on Pleasant Lake in Deerfield. It was really old, really run down. He was going to put a new roof on it, and fix it up right.
Well, Mother Nature had a different idea. A giant pine tree pretty much split it in half. Roof is crushed, newer deck destroyed, etc. Looks like he will need to tear it down and start over.

I feel really bad for him and his family. He just closed on this place in early August, and was so excited to be lakeside.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by chipj29

My buddy recently bought a fixer-upper camp on Pleasant Lake in Deerfield. It was really old, really run down. He was going to put a new roof on it, and fix it up right.
Well, Mother Nature had a different idea. A giant pine tree pretty much split it in half. Roof is crushed, newer deck destroyed, etc. Looks like he will need to tear it down and start over.

I feel really bad for him and his family. He just closed on this place in early August, and was so excited to be lakeside.

If he tears it down they may not be able to ever rebuild if it's close to the water. Tell him to look into the requirements before doing anything. It may be a case where they "repair" it, then add a 2000 sq ft addition.

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by jbolty

If he tears it down they may not be able to ever rebuild if it's close to the water. Tell him to look into the requirements before doing anything. It may be a case where they "repair" it, then add a 2000 sq ft addition.

I can't speak to the local requirements but this is the Shoreland Protection Rule that would come into play...

Env-Wq 1408.01 Replacement of Pre-existing Nonconforming Structures Damaged By Accidental Means.
(a) The owner of any pre-existing nonconforming structure damaged by accidental means who wishes to rebuild the structure in its existing location shall begin construction within 2 years of the date of the accident or such shorter period of time as is specified in local ordinances or regulations.
(b) For purposes of these rules, the time period specified in (a), above, shall not run during the pendency of any legal action that is intended to or has the effect of precluding the owner from rebuilding the structure.
(c) If the owner does not begin construction to replace the pre-existing nonconforming structure within the time period established in (a), above, any primary structure thereafter constructed shall conform to all applicable set-back requirements.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by jbolty

If he tears it down they may not be able to ever rebuild if it's close to the water. Tell him to look into the requirements before doing anything. It may be a case where they "repair" it, then add a 2000 sq ft addition.

I don't know how far back it is, but it isn't very close. I would say it is over 50' away from the shore. He is planning on rebuilding in the original footprint, and not expanding.

[Gatto Nero]

I'm interested in some opinions with regard to home insurance covering dock damage from the storm. My boat was still in the water during this past storm. We found that the lines had snapped and the boat must have bounced around like a pinball inside the U Shaped dock for hours before it finally drifted free. My insurance company is denying the claim on the dock because they say the damage was due to wave action, which apparently is not covered. The damage to the dock was caused by the boat repeatedly smashing in to it, not the waves. Did the waves cause the boat to smash into the dock? Along with the wind they certainly did but it is pretty obvious from looking at both the dock and the boat that it was the boat hitting the dock that caused the damage, not the waves themselves. Is this just wishful thinking on my part or is this something that I should be able to appeal and win?

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I'm interested in some opinions with regard to home insurance covering dock damage from the storm. My boat was still in the water during this past storm. We found that the lines had snapped and the boat must have bounced around like a pinball inside the U Shaped dock for hours before it finally drifted free. My insurance company is denying the claim on the dock because they say the damage was due to wave action, which apparently is not covered. The damage to the dock was caused by the boat repeatedly smashing in to it, not the waves. Did the waves cause the boat to smash into the dock? Along with the wind they certainly did but it is pretty obvious from looking at both the dock and the boat that it was the boat hitting the dock that caused the damage, not the waves themselves. Is this just wishful thinking on my part or is this something that I should be able to appeal and win?

How about your boat insurance covering damage to property?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

How about your boat insurance covering damage to property?

Unfortunately, property damage part of liability is damage to the property of others, not your own.

Dave

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I'm interested in some opinions with regard to home insurance covering dock damage from the storm. My boat was still in the water during this past storm. We found that the lines had snapped and the boat must have bounced around like a pinball inside the U Shaped dock for hours before it finally drifted free. My insurance company is denying the claim on the dock because they say the damage was due to wave action, which apparently is not covered. The damage to the dock was caused by the boat repeatedly smashing in to it, not the waves. Did the waves cause the boat to smash into the dock? Along with the wind they certainly did but it is pretty obvious from looking at both the dock and the boat that it was the boat hitting the dock that caused the damage, not the waves themselves. Is this just wishful thinking on my part or is this something that I should be able to appeal and win?

Although I've never had occasion to use one, it'd be worth a call to a "public adjuster" for insurance claims:

A public adjuster is a professional claims handler claims adjuster who advocates for the policyholder in appraising and negotiating a claimant's insurance claim.[1] Aside from attorneys and the broker of record, public adjusters licensed by state departments of insurance are the only type of claims adjuster that can legally represent the rights of an insured during an insurance claim process. A public adjuster will be most beneficial when it is clear that the insurer will pay the claim and the only issue is the proper identification and valuation of the loss. Most public adjusters charge a percentage of the settlement. Primarily they appraise the damage, prepare an estimate and other claim documentation, read the policy of insurance to determine coverages, and negotiate with the insurance company's claims handler.[2]
—Wikipedia

Following Hurricane Andrew, many insurance companies would settle readily with such adjusters. Fees are a percentage of recovery above what insurance has offered.

Damage to Florida docks and boathouses following Hurricane Irma has policy holders wondering why they bought insurance over decades.

But remember, this is The Age of Social Media!

Good luck...

.

[Cobalt]

My Insurance Policy specifically states no coverage for damage to docks caused by ice. After paying a substantial premium for the policy, I assumed the dock would be covered.

My question, at the time, what is covered? I need to check again, but my agent told me that would be the only exclusion.

I had very good luck using an insurance adjuster in the past for water damage to the interior of my house. They use professionals, prepare a damage report, and cost for clean up, repair, and other expenses incurred. They usually have a working relationship with the insurance companies.

In your case, the insurance company declined the claim, I would consult an attorney familiar with real estate transactions for waterfront properties. Unless the policy outright declines coverage for your dock, ask what is covered.

I believe the insurance company will not want to defend their absurd position in court, and prefer to settle.

Cobalt

[rsmlp]

Due tomorrow. According to my wind chill calculator, could have chills below 10 degrees. Wintah is heah!

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by ApS

A public adjuster will be most beneficial when it is clear that the insurer will pay the claim and the only issue is the proper identification and valuation of the loss.
.

Unfortunately, that is not the case here. They did not put a value to the loss, they outright denied it because of the peril that damaged the dock, which they say was waves. And I don't think its a case of whether or not particular peril is covered or not. For the moment I'm going to assume that waves are not covered (still waiting for their version of the coverage language). It really revolves around which peril caused the loss. Was it, in fact, waves or was it the boat? I can say with certainty that if the boat wasn't there I would not have had the damage that I do. Here are some pics of both the dock and boat damage. https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B17GfnH8tGEVx1S

[LakeTimes]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

Unfortunately, that is not the case here. They did not put a value to the loss, they outright denied it because of the peril that damaged the dock, which they say was waves. And I don't think its a case of whether or not particular peril is covered or not. For the moment I'm going to assume that waves are not covered (still waiting for their version of the coverage language). It really revolves around which peril caused the loss. Was it, in fact, waves or was it the boat? I can say with certainty that if the boat wasn't there I would not have had the damage that I do. Here are some pics of both the dock and boat damage. https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B17GfnH8tGEVx1S

Is that really a cleat broken-in-half in those pictures?

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by JC19

Is that really a cleat broken-in-half in those pictures?

It is. Must have been some wave, huh?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by JC19

Is that really a cleat broken-in-half in those pictures?

Look'n at the broken galvanized steel cleat screwed to the wood dock with two screws, it has a thin center area with a weak, thin design where it broke in half .... was not very strong?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Look'n at the broken galvanized steel cleat screwed to the wood dock with two screws, it has a thin center area with a weak, thin design where it broke in half .... was not very strong?

The cleat looks like cast aluminum rather than galvanized steel.

[fatlazyless]

'The Case of the Weak Cleat' from an episode of the old Perry Mason tv show comes to my imaginary mind here.

Yes, thank-you very much, Mr Rusty, for your expert testimony.

[Descant]

The denial letter from your insurance should refer to specific language in the policy. Often, "Coverage"is listed in one area and some paragraphs later "Exclusions", so you have to read both. In any event before you hire an attorney, or public adjuster you can get input from the NH Insurance Commission. Send them your denial and a copy of your (entire) policy. "It's free. The government pays for it."

[Barney Bear]

The seasonal 4'x40' wood dock mentioned in Item #39 above was turned bottom side up by the large waves in last week's storm. Today, in southern NH, we lost power for three hours. In an e-mail, Eversource said that the outage involved about 150 customers. 🐻

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

Unfortunately, that is not the case here. They did not put a value to the loss, they outright denied it because of the peril that damaged the dock, which they say was waves. And I don't think its a case of whether or not particular peril is covered or not. For the moment I'm going to assume that waves are not covered (still waiting for their version of the coverage language). It really revolves around which peril caused the loss. Was it, in fact, waves or was it the boat? I can say with certainty that if the boat wasn't there I would not have had the damage that I do. Here are some pics of both the dock and boat damage. https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B17GfnH8tGEVx1S

Granted, insurance would make your dock entirely "whole" again; however, structural damage seems to be limited, and the cosmetic damage can be cheaply homeowner-restored. (Then take pictures of your repairs, and wait for "Ice-Out").

Some of those missing panels are likely on shore nearby—and maybe that engine cover can be found in shallow water not far away; that is, if it wasn't found inside the boat.

If my dock was covered by insurance—which it isn't—I wouldn't have made a claim; indeed, I'd expect to pay "hiked" premiums for that damage over-and-over again in subsequent years.

Windstorm insurance coverage along SE Florida coastlines can run $15,000 a year!

Restoring long mooring lines can be costly. Would they be covered under your boat's policy?

.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Yeah but I wasn’t including any of the islands! After just seeing what happened on Welch island, I don’t expect electricity back on out there till spring!

Still no power at my mainland home in Gilford!

Dan

Power still out on Bear?

If so, I am hoping my contractor will use our generator in order to work on our camp.

NHEC may not restore power til spring