Conversion from Electric heat to oil ?

bigdog · 04-04-2018, 06:16 PM

Boy... am I bouncing between Forums this week.. Yikes !

I'm looking at a property that has electric heat. I would never live in a house with electric heat !

I had a house years ago, a ranch, with electric heat, and converted to oil, it was rather an easy conversion.. Had a furnace installed in the basement, vented through chimney 'I built', and all baseboard was installed, up through the basement ceiling. I think this could be done for about $10,000. $5k for the furnace, $5k for the baseboards and labor, maybe I'm underestimating ?

Was thinking I could do same with the property in question, at least for the first floor. House actually has two chimneys, one in the living room, the other in the basement. If it chimney has 2 flues, I'll put in a wood or pellet stove, in the basement.

It's a very nice house, in the area I like, with a great view of the mountains.

Thoughts ?

swnoel · 04-04-2018, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

Boy... am I bouncing between Forums this week.. Yikes !

I'm looking at a property that has electric heat. I would never live in a house with electric heat !

I had a house years ago, a ranch, with electric heat, and converted to oil, it was rather an easy conversion.. Had a furnace installed in the basement, vented through chimney 'I built', and all baseboard was installed, up through the basement ceiling. I think this could be done for about $10,000. $5k for the furnace, $5k for the baseboards and labor, maybe I'm underestimating ?

Was thinking I could do same with the property in question, at least for the first floor. House actually has two chimneys, one in the living room, the other in the basement. If it chimney has 2 flues, I'll put in a wood or pellet stove, in the basement.

It's a very nice house, in the area I like, with a great view of the mountains.

Thoughts ?

If you're doing the work you might be right ... if you plan on hiring it out it will be more!

FlyingScot · 04-04-2018, 07:06 PM

I understand the problems with traditional electric systems, and I'm sure you could lower your bill by converting. But, ironically, your best bet might be to convert to...electric.

Check out mini split heat pumps. I have the Mitsubishis--they are significantly more efficient than oil.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...uide/index.htm

BroadHopper · 04-05-2018, 04:53 AM

Please add these to your research. Highly recommended.

If you have natural gas available.
Right now Liberty Utilities will pay for the first 100 feet of pipe installation for new customers. And will provide a $4000 grant for conversion plus a $4000 2% loan!

thinkxingu · 04-05-2018, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Please add these to your research. Highly recommended.

If you have natural gas available.
Right now Liberty Utilities will pay for the first 100 feet of pipe installation for new customers. And will provide a $4000 grant for conversion plus a $4000 2% loan!

Do you know if this is a regional thing?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

TheTimeTraveler · 04-05-2018, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

Boy... am I bouncing between Forums this week.. Yikes !

I'm looking at a property that has electric heat. I would never live in a house with electric heat !

I had a house years ago, a ranch, with electric heat, and converted to oil, it was rather an easy conversion.. Had a furnace installed in the basement, vented through chimney 'I built', and all baseboard was installed, up through the basement ceiling. I think this could be done for about $10,000. $5k for the furnace, $5k for the baseboards and labor, maybe I'm underestimating ?

Was thinking I could do same with the property in question, at least for the first floor. House actually has two chimneys, one in the living room, the other in the basement. If it chimney has 2 flues, I'll put in a wood or pellet stove, in the basement.

It's a very nice house, in the area I like, with a great view of the mountains.

Thoughts ?

Many new oil/gas heat installations no longer use a true chimney for venting; you could save yourself a step and vent directly out thru the side of the foundation if your building inspector will permit it. Worth checking out!

.

2islandboy · 04-05-2018, 07:16 AM

Mini-split heat pumps. Mitsubishi FH series. Single not multi units. Several units spaced around your home. Incredibly efficient. The technology seems to improve yearly. They are so efficient that you can run them on a small standby generator. Dead silent.

upthesaukee · 04-05-2018, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

Many new oil/gas heat installations no longer use a true chimney for venting; you could save yourself a step and vent directly out thru the side of the foundation if your building inspector will permit it. Worth checking out!

.

In this part of the country, one cautionary note: Be aware of keeping vent clear of snow, for the obvious reason.

Same applies to dryer vents.

Dave

2islandboy · 04-05-2018, 07:49 AM

The technology is improving so quickly that the Consumer Reports article, dated 2016 is somewhat out of date. I have a Mitsubishi FH single mini-split and it will deliver full rated heat down to 5deg outside temp. Below that, it will still provide tons of heat but is less efficient. Here is a link to pdf with technical details:
jackmansinc.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/mitsubishi-m-series-brochure.pdf

The SEER of the newest units is around 30!!! Installation is easy. My neighbor has a Fugitsu Mini and loves it, even in mid-winter. I think that most electric utilities will give a tax credit/installation credit. Not sure of the details.

The logic behind using, for example, three smaller single units is that they cost about the same as a three head multi, but with fewer long tubing runs and if one goes down, you haven't lost the whole system. They are very reliable and have good warranties. I do not sell them, but I'm an engineer and just really like the technology.

Slickcraft · 04-05-2018, 08:08 AM

We have Mitsubishi mini splits at home and out on Welch, a great product. They could solve your entire problem.

Some thoughts:

If you still go for forced hot water (oil or gas fired) on the 1st floor then consider adding a basement zone rather than a pellet stove. One less appliance. Now matter what, use mini splits at least on the 2nd floor. Reliable heat and A/C in the summer.

Biggd · 04-05-2018, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

We have Mitsubishi mini splits at home and out on Welch, a great product. They could solve your entire problem.

Some thoughts:

If you still go for forced hot water (oil or gas fired) on the 1st floor then consider adding a basement zone rather than a pellet stove. One less appliance. Now matter what, use mini splits at least on the 2nd floor. Reliable heat and A/C in the summer.

I added a room over my 2 car garage and we only use it in the summer as an extra sleeping area for the grandkids but I'm thinking about adding heat and at the same time adding heat to the garage. I was leaning towards a Propane forced hot air furnace but a duel outlet mini split sounds like it would be more efficient and give me A/C also even though I'm not looking to put A/C in the garage. Would they be comparable in installation costs? The garage is all open to the studs and floor joists at the moment so installing ductwork wouldn't a big issue.

TiltonBB · 04-05-2018, 08:56 AM

I have mini splits and they are extremely economical for heat and air conditioning.

One of them is in a 3 level rental house with one unit outside feeding the three heads. It takes a little bit of an education process to have the tenants understand that the units will either put out heat or A/C but it cannot do both at the same time. So if someone on one floor switches to A/C while the other two heads are on heat it will stop functioning. For that reason I now wish that I had three separate units installed but other than that they are excellent.

They newer models get more efficient every year so sometimes the local vendors have used units that are only a few years old for sale at a discount when people trade them in to upgrade.

FlyingScot · 04-05-2018, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd

I added a room over my 2 car garage and we only use it in the summer as an extra sleeping area for the grandkids but I'm thinking about adding heat and at the same time adding heat to the garage. I was leaning towards a Propane forced hot air furnace but a duel outlet mini split sounds like it would be more efficient and give me A/C also even though I'm not looking to put A/C in the garage. Would they be comparable in installation costs? The garage is all open to the studs and floor joists at the moment so installing ductwork wouldn't a big issue.

I do not know the numbers, and every install is unique, but I'm almost certain the installation labor is lower with mini splits--no ductwork at all, no need to worry about venting--you just need to run a couple of lines between the inside unit and the outside.

ishoot308 · 04-05-2018, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2islandboy

The SEER of the newest units is around 30!!!

That SEER rating is amazing! I had the Mitsubishi's installed at my island camp a few years ago and even since then the technology has just got better every year. The newer hyper heat models are amazing!

Highly recommended!

Dan

The Real BigGuy · 04-05-2018, 11:35 AM

I have 3 Mitsubishi head units running off 2 compressor units. They are not the Hyperheat units but, the heat the house comfortably down to about 15+/- (hyperheat units are supposed to provide heat to -5 or so) degrees. I went from a tank of oil every +/- 3weeks to 3 fills this year. I was real surprised when I found that my electric bill didn’t jump like I expected. My son-in-law installs Mitsubishi’s and his company only sells the hyperheat units now although, they still recommend that you do not use them as your primary heat source during the winter

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

FlyingScot · 04-05-2018, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

they still recommend that you do not use them as your primary heat source during the winter

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Our Mass house has 7 Mitsubishis spread over 3000 sq ft. Except for an occaisionally used gas fireplace insert, they are our only source of heat, and they were champs this past winter, even with extended periods of sub zero temps.

2islandboy · 04-05-2018, 04:54 PM

Nice to hear lots of happy campers. Note, the M series FH model is the newest and most efficient. Some dealers will try to sell their older FE models, which are less efficient.

I have installed 15 of these units. I only use singe units. I find that three singles cost about the same as one three head unit and are more reliable. I am an experienced plumber and electrician, so I do the rough-in, run the gas lines, mount the condenser/evaporator and then have a LICENSED HVAC person connect the tubing - purge - evacuate - purge - evacuate and maybe yet again. This is the most important part. If any moisture remains in the lines, you WILL have problems. A licensed HVAC person must do the final install or no warranty. Find an HVAC tech who does these all day, every day and really knows them. Anybody know about rebates?

swnoel · 04-06-2018, 05:38 PM

Put mini splits in with solar panels ... not paying for heat is so amazing!

04-04-2018, 06:16 PM	#1
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,443 Thanks: 338 Thanked 117 Times in 94 Posts	Conversion from Electric heat to oil ? Boy... am I bouncing between Forums this week.. Yikes ! I'm looking at a property that has electric heat. I would never live in a house with electric heat ! I had a house years ago, a ranch, with electric heat, and converted to oil, it was rather an easy conversion.. Had a furnace installed in the basement, vented through chimney 'I built', and all baseboard was installed, up through the basement ceiling. I think this could be done for about $10,000. $5k for the furnace, $5k for the baseboards and labor, maybe I'm underestimating ? Was thinking I could do same with the property in question, at least for the first floor. House actually has two chimneys, one in the living room, the other in the basement. If it chimney has 2 flues, I'll put in a wood or pellet stove, in the basement. It's a very nice house, in the area I like, with a great view of the mountains. Thoughts ?

04-05-2018, 04:53 AM	#4
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,568 Thanks: 3,199 Thanked 1,099 Times in 792 Posts	Heat pump systems. Please add these to your research. Highly recommended. If you have natural gas available. Right now Liberty Utilities will pay for the first 100 feet of pipe installation for new customers. And will provide a $4000 grant for conversion plus a $4000 2% loan! __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

04-05-2018, 07:16 AM	#7
2islandboy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Mini-split heat pumps Mini-split heat pumps. Mitsubishi FH series. Single not multi units. Several units spaced around your home. Incredibly efficient. The technology seems to improve yearly. They are so efficient that you can run them on a small standby generator. Dead silent.

04-05-2018, 07:49 AM	#9
2islandboy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Mitsubishi FH Mini-splits The technology is improving so quickly that the Consumer Reports article, dated 2016 is somewhat out of date. I have a Mitsubishi FH single mini-split and it will deliver full rated heat down to 5deg outside temp. Below that, it will still provide tons of heat but is less efficient. Here is a link to pdf with technical details: jackmansinc.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/mitsubishi-m-series-brochure.pdf The SEER of the newest units is around 30!!! Installation is easy. My neighbor has a Fugitsu Mini and loves it, even in mid-winter. I think that most electric utilities will give a tax credit/installation credit. Not sure of the details. The logic behind using, for example, three smaller single units is that they cost about the same as a three head multi, but with fewer long tubing runs and if one goes down, you haven't lost the whole system. They are very reliable and have good warranties. I do not sell them, but I'm an engineer and just really like the technology.

04-05-2018, 04:54 PM	#17
2islandboy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Mitsubishi FH not older FE Nice to hear lots of happy campers. Note, the M series FH model is the newest and most efficient. Some dealers will try to sell their older FE models, which are less efficient. I have installed 15 of these units. I only use singe units. I find that three singles cost about the same as one three head unit and are more reliable. I am an experienced plumber and electrician, so I do the rough-in, run the gas lines, mount the condenser/evaporator and then have a LICENSED HVAC person connect the tubing - purge - evacuate - purge - evacuate and maybe yet again. This is the most important part. If any moisture remains in the lines, you WILL have problems. A licensed HVAC person must do the final install or no warranty. Find an HVAC tech who does these all day, every day and really knows them. Anybody know about rebates?

04-04-2018, 07:06 PM	#3
FlyingScot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA Posts: 2,362 Thanks: 1,262 Thanked 1,015 Times in 626 Posts	I understand the problems with traditional electric systems, and I'm sure you could lower your bill by converting. But, ironically, your best bet might be to convert to...electric. Check out mini split heat pumps. I have the Mitsubishis--they are significantly more efficient than oil. https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...uide/index.htm

04-05-2018, 08:08 AM	#10
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,285 Thanks: 1,216 Thanked 2,055 Times in 945 Posts	We have Mitsubishi mini splits at home and out on Welch, a great product. They could solve your entire problem. Some thoughts: If you still go for forced hot water (oil or gas fired) on the 1st floor then consider adding a basement zone rather than a pellet stove. One less appliance. Now matter what, use mini splits at least on the 2nd floor. Reliable heat and A/C in the summer.

04-05-2018, 08:56 AM	#12
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 2,981 Thanks: 688 Thanked 2,190 Times in 926 Posts	I have mini splits and they are extremely economical for heat and air conditioning. One of them is in a 3 level rental house with one unit outside feeding the three heads. It takes a little bit of an education process to have the tenants understand that the units will either put out heat or A/C but it cannot do both at the same time. So if someone on one floor switches to A/C while the other two heads are on heat it will stop functioning. For that reason I now wish that I had three separate units installed but other than that they are excellent. They newer models get more efficient every year so sometimes the local vendors have used units that are only a few years old for sale at a discount when people trade them in to upgrade.

04-05-2018, 11:35 AM	#15
The Real BigGuy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,306 Thanks: 125 Thanked 467 Times in 285 Posts	I have 3 Mitsubishi head units running off 2 compressor units. They are not the Hyperheat units but, the heat the house comfortably down to about 15+/- (hyperheat units are supposed to provide heat to -5 or so) degrees. I went from a tank of oil every +/- 3weeks to 3 fills this year. I was real surprised when I found that my electric bill didn’t jump like I expected. My son-in-law installs Mitsubishi’s and his company only sells the hyperheat units now although, they still recommend that you do not use them as your primary heat source during the winter Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

04-06-2018, 05:38 PM	#18
swnoel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 529 Thanks: 83 Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts	Put mini splits in with solar panels ... not paying for heat is so amazing!