Lakeview Tavern in Meredith

[Poor Richard]

If you're pleased with the quality and service of the establishment, perhaps allow the manager or owner to hear of your experience rather than writing the restaurant off completely.

This thread will not fix the issue.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

If you're pleased with the quality and service of the establishment, perhaps allow the manager or owner to hear of your experience rather than writing the restaurant off completely.

This thread will not fix the issue.

gillygirl did plenty by mentioning it to the server who obviously took some action. But the server and manager did not do enough. The restaurant should have an SOP for what to do about obnoxious and/or drunk people, and as Hillcountry noted, that procedure should be to throw the bums out, perhaps with police assistance to assure that she is not accosted after leaving.

There are many good threads that do not fix issues, but simply report on them so that others can make decisions for themselves.

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

gillygirl did plenty by mentioning it to the server who obviously took some action. But the server and manager did not do enough. The restaurant should have an SOP for what to do about obnoxious and/or drunk people, and as Hillcountry noted, that procedure should be to throw the bums out, perhaps with police assistance to assure that she is not accosted after leaving.

There are many good threads that do not fix issues, but simply report on them so that others can make decisions for themselves.

Are you certain the manager is even aware of this incident? The server definitely was but how can you say the manager should have done more? The manager's level of awareness would be an assumption on your part because it is in no way mentioned in the first post.


All I'm saying is OP should have a talk with a manager or owner directly. Perhaps there isn't an SOP in place and this information cannot otherwise be disseminated thru this thread. Gotta give the leadership team a chance.

[jeffk]

I think how to deal with such people is a tough and complicated subject. A restaurant is a public place. Anyone can come in, even jerks. This might have been the first problem they have had in years. Do you confront obnoxious people? Many can become even worse. Think about road rage. Yes, you can call the police. Maybe they will get there in 10 minutes. How much ability to manage difficult people does the average wait person, some who are high school kids, have? If the problem rarely happens, how ready is the staff to handle it? A bartender in some nighttime taverns knows he might have a problem with the occasional rowdy person and is more prepared. A server in a daytime restaurant, maybe not so much. The second guy was hanging around outside, mostly beyond the purview of the staff. Do they need a security guard to patrol the grounds to deal with a possible repeat incident that may happen only rarely? The staff actions inside DID seem to manage the problem. Do you kick the jerk out for talking if he stops talking?

To be crystal clear, the actions of the jerks were bad and needed to be addressed. I just think it's a very hard problem for a public place to solve.

I hope the restaurant people are fully aware of what happened and that they talk over their options for dealing with it in the future. It's too bad it tainted gillygirl's dinner and it is understandable not to want to go back to a place where you had an unwanted and uncomfortable confrontation.

[Biggd]

I've been there twice since it opened and haven't been back. Neither experience was good, the food, the wait staff, and the customers they attracted were not to my liking. I'd much rather go to Frog Rock just up the street. I'm really surprised it's lasted this long.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I've been there twice since it opened and haven't been back. Neither experience was good, the food, the wait staff, and the customers they attracted were not to my liking. I'd much rather go to Frog Rock just up the street. I'm really surprised it's lasted this long.

I've only been to Frog Rock a couple times, but the tone there would definitely seem to preclude this behavior.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I've only been to Frog Rock a couple times, but the tone there would definitely seem to preclude this behavior.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

The difference at Frog Rock is the owner is always there behind the bar to settle down any unruly customer. Frog Rock's been around a long time so most of the customers are regulars.

[garysanfran]

And happens to be Republican and some entitled moron starts yelling at you for your political position and you are forced to vacate your meal and leave?

What should management do in these instances? And I've wondered if the attacked diner, who has to flee, pays for the half-eaten meal? I wouldn't.

We have become a society that is offensive, easily offended, obnoxious, impolite, entitled, angry, infantile...Sorry, I'm realizing there are too many adjectives to list here that would apply today...Sad!

I would rather have dinner with someone I could have a polite, intellectual discussion on a subject we disagree on, than someone who says "Yes" and "I agree" to everything I say. I enjoy polite intellectual discourse.

Are we on the verge of a civil (uncivil) war? It is becoming very close to violence out there.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

And happens to be Republican and some entitled moron starts yelling at you for your political position and you are forced to vacate your meal and leave?

What should management do in these instances? And I've wondered if the attacked diner, who has to flee, pays for the half-eaten meal? I wouldn't.

We have become a society that is offensive, easily offended, obnoxious, impolite, entitled, angry, infantile...Sorry, I'm realizing there are too many adjectives to list here that would apply today...Sad!

I would rather have dinner with someone I could have a polite, intellectual discussion on a subject we disagree on, than someone who says "Yes" and "I agree" to everything I say. I enjoy polite intellectual discourse.

Are we on the verge of a civil (uncivil) war? It is becoming very close to violence out there.

Separate issues which I will briefly give my two cents on. First, if a customer is harassed, it is the responsibility of the owner/manager to address the issue. If harassing behavior continues and calling police is in order, do it. Or, show your distaste with your wallet and go elsewhere. What was described in the original post is unacceptable.

As to the political issue referenced, the biggest issue I have is the hypocrisy I see. If it is OK to refuse to bake a cake for someone based on their sexual identity, and you actively and vocally support that policy, than you can expect people not to serve you based on your political viewpoint. Personally, I think all businesses should serve all paying customers and treat them with kindness and respect regardless of anything else.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Separate issues which I will briefly give my two cents on. First, if a customer is harassed, it is the responsibility of the owner/manager to address the issue. If harassing behavior continues and calling police is in order, do it. Or, show your distaste with your wallet and go elsewhere. What was described in the original post is unacceptable.

As to the political issue referenced, the biggest issue I have is the hypocrisy I see. If it is OK to refuse to bake a cake for someone based on their sexual identity, and you actively and vocally support that policy, than you can expect people not to serve you based on your political viewpoint. Personally, I think all businesses should serve all paying customers and treat them with kindness and respect regardless of anything else.

There is no hypocrisy. The baker you referenced was exercising his religious freedom under the Constitution. Article 1 reads that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Accordingly, the government cannot force someone to do something that is against his or her religion. The Supreme Court agreed.

That being said, for instances when a customer is accosted in a restaurant, it is up to the restaurant owner to protect the customer, unless the behavior is criminal. Whether the customer is accosted by political enemies or a misogynous creep, the owner, I would think, has a duty to protect the customer, if the owner values the customer. If the owner does not decide to protect the customer, as in the Sarah Sanders/Red Hen incident, then we as customers can decide whether to patronize the establishment and encourage others to do the same.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Major

There is no hypocrisy. The baker you referenced was exercising his religious freedom under the Constitution. Article 1 reads that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Accordingly, the government cannot force someone to do something that is against his or her religion. The Supreme Court agreed.

That being said, for instances when a customer is accosted in a restaurant, it is up to the restaurant owner to protect the customer, unless the behavior is criminal. Whether the customer is accosted by political enemies or a misogynous creep, the owner, I would think, has a duty to protect the customer, if the owner values the customer. If the owner does not decide to protect the customer, as in the Sarah Sanders/Red Hen incident, then we as customers can decide whether to patronize the establishment and encourage others to do the same.

I respectfully disagree and will say that my understanding of the Supreme Court decision was very narrow and does not give blanket permission to refuse to serve someone based on religious beliefs. Instead, it found that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission was hostile toward the baker based on his religious beliefs. Both business owners respectfully declined to serve someone, and in my opinion, both were wrong. I have not heard that either owner was hostile toward the customer - protestors after the fact certainly were. I do agree with an earlier poster who said civility is declining. But, this remains simply my opinion on a forum that focuses on one of the greatest places I know.

[Major]

The Supreme Court does not take cases like these to craft narrow decisions. They take these types of cases to make a statement. Think Roe v. Wade. The baker offered to make the couple a cake without referencing marriage. The owner of the Red Hen followed Sarah Sander's family to another restaurant shouting at them the whole way.

[Garcia]

By narrow decision I simply meant that the Supreme Court left undecided whether a business owner’s religious or free speech rights can justify denying service. Justice Kennedy's decision focused on the religious bias of the Colorado Civil Rights Comission. It was a victory for the baker, but does not set precedent for other business owners to deny service based solely on religious beliefs. As to either of the business owners here, the baker or the restaraunt owner, chasing down and berating the customer, again, I have not heard or read about that. Protestors after the fact, yes, but not the owners. Perhaps I am wrong.

I believe that all people, black, white, gay, straight, liberal, conservative, etc. should be welcome everywhere. If, however, anyone acts inappropriately, he or she should be held accountable.

[Overlake97]

Originally Posted by Major

The owner of the Red Hen followed Sarah Sander's family to another restaurant shouting at them the whole way.

I had never heard this "followed...Sander's family" part of the Red Hen incident, so I Googled it. Every one of the news organizations that carried this part of the story, at least on the first Google results page, seemed to be politically "right of center." So...I went to Snopes, and here's what they had to say about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hu...d-hen-protest/

[Major]

Originally Posted by Overlake97

I had never heard this "followed...Sander's family" part of the Red Hen incident, so I Googled it. Every one of the news organizations that carried this part of the story, at least on the first Google results page, seemed to be politically "right of center." So...I went to Snopes, and here's what they had to say about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hu...d-hen-protest/

. . . you're making my point. What's true -- "After Stephanie Wilkinson asked Sarah Huckabee Sanders to leave her restaurant, a second encounter between Wilkinson and the Sanders family took place at another restaurant when a member of the public briefly held up a sign outside the other restaurant." What do you think Wilkinson and her followers were doing, silently holding signs? No, they followed Sander's family to another restaurant screaming at her.

[Overlake97]

Major, you are correct; Snopes did say that, right at the start. But if you read further down in the "analysis" you'll find the following (among other possibilities of what might have happened):

"At some point in the evening members of the group encountered Wilkinson outside on the street, but it’s not clear whether Wilkinson followed them there or simply happened to be passing by. (We sent Wilkinson a series of questions relating to the events of that evening but did not receive a response.)

The Southern Inn is not across the street from the Red Hen, although it is a few hundred feet away on Main Street (Lexington’s primary thoroughfare), meaning that Wilkinson could have incidentally bumped into the Sanders family on her way to somewhere else."

In any case, it seems unlikely there was an organized protest led by the owner of the Red Hen.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Overlake97

Major, you are correct; Snopes did say that, right at the start. But if you read further down in the "analysis" you'll find the following (among other possibilities of what might have happened):

"At some point in the evening members of the group encountered Wilkinson outside on the street, but it’s not clear whether Wilkinson followed them there or simply happened to be passing by. (We sent Wilkinson a series of questions relating to the events of that evening but did not receive a response.)

The Southern Inn is not across the street from the Red Hen, although it is a few hundred feet away on Main Street (Lexington’s primary thoroughfare), meaning that Wilkinson could have incidentally bumped into the Sanders family on her way to somewhere else."

In any case, it seems unlikely there was an organized protest led by the owner of the Red Hen.

She just happened to be walking by while others were shouting. What a coincidence!