property and water front line laws

GreggPro · 07-11-2018, 08:23 PM

Can someone please advice me where I can locate the laws for property
/ water lines can be found. I'm looking pacifically the laws on how close can an abutter can dock a boat to your property line. I have a neighbor on both sides. their docks have been there for some years. However they are within 2 feet of my property line. if they dock a boat on my side of their dock its on my water property. What can I do?

Sinclair · 07-11-2018, 08:54 PM

Moorings require a permit, per https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...rings/faq.html

The mooring must have a decal on it; otherwise, it's not properly permitted and can be removed.

This article implies that abutters may object to a permitted mooring: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-ham...ection-270-61/

Perhaps your best course of action is to contact Marine Patrol.

Sinclair · 07-11-2018, 08:56 PM

If your neighbor is installing a proper dock, this document nicely covers the rights of abutters: https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/...ents/wb-19.pdf

GreggPro · 07-11-2018, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinclair

If your neighbor is installing a proper dock, this document nicely covers the rights of abutters: https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/...ents/wb-19.pdf

Their docks are both existing...

P-3 Guy · 07-11-2018, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreggPro

if they dock a boat on my side of their dock its on my water property. What can I do?

The water isn't your property.

Lakeboater · 07-12-2018, 03:23 AM

I seem to recall that an abutter couldn't block the waterfront of his neighbor similar to a mooring not being in front of a neighbors property. Are these neighbors using both sides of their docks? On a regular basis?

TiltonBB · 07-12-2018, 04:51 AM

With an existing dock, you can follow the imaginary line that extends from your property line into the water to determine how much boat can be at the dock.

In theory, if your property line is at an angle, getting wider at the shoreline, you could end up with a boat docked in front of your neighbor's property. If the line was at a right angle to the shore going straight out you would have less area to dock a boat.

Sinclair · 07-12-2018, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

With an existing dock, you can follow the imaginary line that extends from your property line into the water to determine how much boat can be at the dock.

In theory, if your property line is at an angle, getting wider at the shoreline, you could end up with a boat docked in front of your neighbor's property. If the line was at a right angle to the shore going straight out you would have less area to dock a boat.

Yes. Page 3 of the PDF I posted has a nice diagram of this.

Seaplane Pilot · 07-12-2018, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

The water isn't your property.

The water might not be his property, but he has certain rights to the water in front of his shoreline property that the public does not have.

Sinclair · 07-12-2018, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

The water might not be his property, but he has certain rights to the water in front of his shoreline property that the public does not have.

Yes, and to take the point further the lake isn't "everyone's" property or "our" property -- it's the State of New Hampshire's property, like a state park. The State gets to make whatever rules it wants so long as they are consistent with its being held for the public good. The distinction is important because it avoids the "tragedy of the commons" -- and rules to protect landowners from the public or each other is an important aspect of that.

upthesaukee · 07-12-2018, 07:05 AM

My friend bought property on Winnipesaukee, and made application for a new seasonal dock. As part of the approval, looking out at the lake, the dock had to remain 25 ft from the extended property line on the right side of his property looking out.

Seemed reasonable to him, and we have followed this for the last three years. Keeps everyone happy.

Dave

Descant · 07-12-2018, 08:36 AM

This is a complicated issue with other threads and varying accuracy of information. Generally, temporary seasonal docks fall under a "Permit By Notification" process. Regulations ("Rules") have some variables based on shore frontage and in some cases, the rule can be waived with written permission of the abutting landowner. In other cases, a dock can be closer to the 20 ft setback if it is an existing structure (grandfathered).
Marine Patrol has little or nothing to do with this issue--it all goes through the Department of Environmental Services Wetlands Bureau. You can call them at 271-4067, although at this time of year, they may be in the field.
If a boat, float, mooring, etc. presents a hazardous condition or impedes navigation, there may be an issue for Marine Patrol. Best solution seems to be for neighbors to work things out. Maybe you could offer to help move your neighbor's temporary dock over a few feet? If it is permitted, these issues were considered in the permit process. DES is very thorough in these considerations and they consult with MP if necessary, before issuing a permit. In any event, call DES. They are very helpful.

thinkxingu · 07-12-2018, 08:36 AM

It seems clear to me that the neighbor's boat, if crossing over the extension of your property line into the water, would be infringing on your rights.

It also seems clear to me that it shouldn't be a big deal in MOST cases, especially if past practice, which it sounds like it is.

Why are you asking? What's changed?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

Onshore · 07-12-2018, 09:32 AM

In 1998 the following language was added to RSA 482-A:

"RSA 482-A:3 Excavating and Dredging Permit; Certain Exemptions. –XIII. (a) All boat docking facilities shall be at least 20 feet from an abutting property line in non-tidal waters, and at least 20 feet in tidal waters.
(b) Boat docking facilities may be perpendicular or parallel to the shoreline or extend at some other angle into a water body, depending on the needs of the landowners, factors related to safe navigation, and the difficulty of construction. However, any boat secured to such a dock shall not extend beyond the extension of the abutter's property line.
(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (a), boat docking facilities may be located closer than 20 feet from an abutter's property line in non-tidal waters and 20 feet in tidal waters, if the owner of the boat docking facility obtains the written consent of the abutting property owner. Such consent shall be signed by all parties, notarized and filed with the dock application with the department of environmental services.
(d) Abutters may apply for a common dock on or near their common property line. Any application for a common dock shall be accompanied by a notarized written agreement which shall be signed by all property owners. Such agreement shall be filed at the registry of deeds and attached to the deed of each property owner."

Docks installed after 1998 must therefore be 20 feet off the imaginary extension of the property line unless a signed notarized waiver of the setback is obtained from the affected abutter.

Prior to 1998 the setback for docks was established in the Administrative Rules adopted under RSA 482-A by the Wetlands Bureau. Between 1992 and 1998 the rules required a 20 ft. setback. I do know that during the late 70's and through the 80's the setback was only 10 feet by Rule. Sorry but I haven't had time to pin down the exact date of the change from 10 ft. to 20 ft.

Docks that were first installed prior to 1969 would not have been subject to a setback requirement.

Please note that the law specifies that the setback is from the imaginary extension of the property line meaning it continues over the water along the same heading of the property line. Thus the extension is frequently not perpendicular to shore.

MeredithMan · 07-13-2018, 09:18 AM

….Thank you for the great info in your post on the setback rules. One follow-up question:

Suppose Abutter A signs off on the neighbor's dock being less than 20 feet from the property line. Then, a few years later, Abutter A sells his property and Abutter A1 is now the owner. A1 then says, "hey, I didn't agree to that....that was the previous owner" Does the agreement stay with the property, or does it cease when the abutter who signed it sells?

Thanks!

swnoel · 07-13-2018, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

….Thank you for the great info in your post on the setback rules. One follow-up question:

Suppose Abutter A signs off on the neighbor's dock being less than 20 feet from the property line. Then, a few years later, Abutter A sells his property and Abutter A1 is now the owner. A1 then says, "hey, I didn't agree to that....that was the previous owner" Does the agreement stay with the property, or does it cease when the abutter who signed it sells?

Thanks!

Seems like it may become attached to a deed... could be considered a recorded encroachment to the property. May become part of the property. That's why it is critical that everything is divulged by the seller to any buyer, but that doesn't make the buyer not perform their own due diligence. Then again it may only be a recorded agreement between 2 parties... time to consult an attorney.

Onshore · 07-13-2018, 09:48 AM

This is an interesting question that we have not been forced to answer yet. DES takes the position that the docking facility was legally installed and therefore can remain. The buyer of the abutting property bought into a pre-existing "knowable" situation. That said, the permit for the dock would have been recorded with the deed on which the dock is installed, not the abutting property, so this is not something that would show up in a title search. If dock in question is a permanent dock then it is a situation that should have been completely visible to the buyer beforehand. If the dock is seasonal and the property is sold over the off-season or if there is a recent, active permit and construction hasn't occurred yet then the buyer might be in for an unpleasant surprise. DES has received some conditional waivers and in those instances the permit for the dock should contain Specific Conditions that reflect the conditional waiver granted by the abutter.

MeredithMan · 07-13-2018, 10:39 AM

Our abutting neighbor has owned his place probably 30+ years. We bought about 5 yrs ago. His dock is definitely not 20' back from the prop line. I don't know if he had an agreement with the previous owner of my place, who also had been there many years. It's not worth making an issue over, because he's a great neighbor and has done a lot to help us out in the time we've lived there, but it is always good to know what the official rules are. Thank you!

summah1 · 07-18-2018, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreggPro

Can someone please advice me where I can locate the laws for property
/ water lines can be found. I'm looking pacifically the laws on how close can an abutter can dock a boat to your property line. I have a neighbor on both sides. their docks have been there for some years. However they are within 2 feet of my property line. if they dock a boat on my side of their dock its on my water property. What can I do?

Rich people problem. Don't stir the pot and enjoy the 8 weeks of summer. Pray you are healthy and happy everyday forward.

MeredithMan · 07-18-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by summah1

Rich people problem. Don't stir the pot and enjoy the 8 weeks of summer. Pray you are healthy and happy everyday forward.

So with this logic, would we say that a property line issue in a crappy trailer park is a poor person's problem? It's got nothing to do with rich or poor--the issue is defining the law and/or rules and then it's up to the aggrieved party to decide if he/she wants to make an issue of it. Are the neighbors that are over the prop line nice people, or are they jerks? That may well be the deciding factor...

As the parent of a cancer survivor who had his childhood robbed from him, I do totally agree with you to be thankful for your health and to not sweat the small stuff.

Descant · 07-18-2018, 07:12 PM

It seems that this question comes up when there is a property transfer, i.e. a buyer has expectations that did not cause a dispute between previous landowners/abutters. If that is correct, the new landowner should consider whether he did sufficient due diligence, or the existing landowner took advantage of the land transfer and moved his dock. My guess is, the "new" person made, or was "led" to make some assumptions that were not fully founded. These questions do not seem to arise until there is a property sale.

07-11-2018, 08:23 PM	#1
GreggPro Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 12 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	property and water front line laws Can someone please advice me where I can locate the laws for property / water lines can be found. I'm looking pacifically the laws on how close can an abutter can dock a boat to your property line. I have a neighbor on both sides. their docks have been there for some years. However they are within 2 feet of my property line. if they dock a boat on my side of their dock its on my water property. What can I do? Last edited by GreggPro; 07-11-2018 at 09:21 PM.

07-12-2018, 07:05 AM	#11
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,596 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,453 Thanked 1,979 Times in 1,080 Posts	Where I dock my boat My friend bought property on Winnipesaukee, and made application for a new seasonal dock. As part of the approval, looking out at the lake, the dock had to remain 25 ft from the extended property line on the right side of his property looking out. Seemed reasonable to him, and we have followed this for the last three years. Keeps everyone happy. Dave __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

07-12-2018, 08:36 AM	#12
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 1,339 Thanked 1,621 Times in 1,053 Posts	Laws and rules This is a complicated issue with other threads and varying accuracy of information. Generally, temporary seasonal docks fall under a "Permit By Notification" process. Regulations ("Rules") have some variables based on shore frontage and in some cases, the rule can be waived with written permission of the abutting landowner. In other cases, a dock can be closer to the 20 ft setback if it is an existing structure (grandfathered). Marine Patrol has little or nothing to do with this issue--it all goes through the Department of Environmental Services Wetlands Bureau. You can call them at 271-4067, although at this time of year, they may be in the field. If a boat, float, mooring, etc. presents a hazardous condition or impedes navigation, there may be an issue for Marine Patrol. Best solution seems to be for neighbors to work things out. Maybe you could offer to help move your neighbor's temporary dock over a few feet? If it is permitted, these issues were considered in the permit process. DES is very thorough in these considerations and they consult with MP if necessary, before issuing a permit. In any event, call DES. They are very helpful.

07-13-2018, 09:18 AM	#15
MeredithMan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Bedford, NH; Meredith, NH Posts: 946 Thanks: 262 Thanked 812 Times in 331 Posts	Follow-up question to Shore Things... ….Thank you for the great info in your post on the setback rules. One follow-up question: Suppose Abutter A signs off on the neighbor's dock being less than 20 feet from the property line. Then, a few years later, Abutter A sells his property and Abutter A1 is now the owner. A1 then says, "hey, I didn't agree to that....that was the previous owner" Does the agreement stay with the property, or does it cease when the abutter who signed it sells? Thanks!

07-13-2018, 10:39 AM	#18
MeredithMan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Bedford, NH; Meredith, NH Posts: 946 Thanks: 262 Thanked 812 Times in 331 Posts	Thanks Our abutting neighbor has owned his place probably 30+ years. We bought about 5 yrs ago. His dock is definitely not 20' back from the prop line. I don't know if he had an agreement with the previous owner of my place, who also had been there many years. It's not worth making an issue over, because he's a great neighbor and has done a lot to help us out in the time we've lived there, but it is always good to know what the official rules are. Thank you!

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07-11-2018, 08:54 PM	#2
Sinclair Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: N/A Posts: 36 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	Moorings require a permit, per https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...rings/faq.html The mooring must have a decal on it; otherwise, it's not properly permitted and can be removed. This article implies that abutters may object to a permitted mooring: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-ham...ection-270-61/ Perhaps your best course of action is to contact Marine Patrol.

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GreggPro (07-11-2018)

07-11-2018, 08:56 PM	#3
Sinclair Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: N/A Posts: 36 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	If your neighbor is installing a proper dock, this document nicely covers the rights of abutters: https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/...ents/wb-19.pdf

07-12-2018, 03:23 AM	#6
Lakeboater Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 394 Thanks: 20 Thanked 131 Times in 94 Posts	I seem to recall that an abutter couldn't block the waterfront of his neighbor similar to a mooring not being in front of a neighbors property. Are these neighbors using both sides of their docks? On a regular basis?

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07-12-2018, 04:51 AM	#7
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 2,989 Thanks: 696 Thanked 2,195 Times in 930 Posts	With an existing dock, you can follow the imaginary line that extends from your property line into the water to determine how much boat can be at the dock. In theory, if your property line is at an angle, getting wider at the shoreline, you could end up with a boat docked in front of your neighbor's property. If the line was at a right angle to the shore going straight out you would have less area to dock a boat.

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07-12-2018, 08:36 AM	#13
thinkxingu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 6,213 Thanks: 1,167 Thanked 2,048 Times in 1,271 Posts	It seems clear to me that the neighbor's boat, if crossing over the extension of your property line into the water, would be infringing on your rights. It also seems clear to me that it shouldn't be a big deal in MOST cases, especially if past practice, which it sounds like it is. Why are you asking? What's changed? Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

07-12-2018, 09:32 AM	#14
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 502 Thanks: 12 Thanked 423 Times in 145 Posts	In 1998 the following language was added to RSA 482-A: "RSA 482-A:3 Excavating and Dredging Permit; Certain Exemptions. –XIII. (a) All boat docking facilities shall be at least 20 feet from an abutting property line in non-tidal waters, and at least 20 feet in tidal waters. (b) Boat docking facilities may be perpendicular or parallel to the shoreline or extend at some other angle into a water body, depending on the needs of the landowners, factors related to safe navigation, and the difficulty of construction. However, any boat secured to such a dock shall not extend beyond the extension of the abutter's property line. (c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (a), boat docking facilities may be located closer than 20 feet from an abutter's property line in non-tidal waters and 20 feet in tidal waters, if the owner of the boat docking facility obtains the written consent of the abutting property owner. Such consent shall be signed by all parties, notarized and filed with the dock application with the department of environmental services. (d) Abutters may apply for a common dock on or near their common property line. Any application for a common dock shall be accompanied by a notarized written agreement which shall be signed by all property owners. Such agreement shall be filed at the registry of deeds and attached to the deed of each property owner." Docks installed after 1998 must therefore be 20 feet off the imaginary extension of the property line unless a signed notarized waiver of the setback is obtained from the affected abutter. Prior to 1998 the setback for docks was established in the Administrative Rules adopted under RSA 482-A by the Wetlands Bureau. Between 1992 and 1998 the rules required a 20 ft. setback. I do know that during the late 70's and through the 80's the setback was only 10 feet by Rule. Sorry but I haven't had time to pin down the exact date of the change from 10 ft. to 20 ft. Docks that were first installed prior to 1969 would not have been subject to a setback requirement. Please note that the law specifies that the setback is from the imaginary extension of the property line meaning it continues over the water along the same heading of the property line. Thus the extension is frequently not perpendicular to shore.

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07-13-2018, 09:48 AM	#17
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 502 Thanks: 12 Thanked 423 Times in 145 Posts	This is an interesting question that we have not been forced to answer yet. DES takes the position that the docking facility was legally installed and therefore can remain. The buyer of the abutting property bought into a pre-existing "knowable" situation. That said, the permit for the dock would have been recorded with the deed on which the dock is installed, not the abutting property, so this is not something that would show up in a title search. If dock in question is a permanent dock then it is a situation that should have been completely visible to the buyer beforehand. If the dock is seasonal and the property is sold over the off-season or if there is a recent, active permit and construction hasn't occurred yet then the buyer might be in for an unpleasant surprise. DES has received some conditional waivers and in those instances the permit for the dock should contain Specific Conditions that reflect the conditional waiver granted by the abutter.

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07-18-2018, 07:12 PM	#21
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 1,339 Thanked 1,621 Times in 1,053 Posts	It seems that this question comes up when there is a property transfer, i.e. a buyer has expectations that did not cause a dispute between previous landowners/abutters. If that is correct, the new landowner should consider whether he did sufficient due diligence, or the existing landowner took advantage of the land transfer and moved his dock. My guess is, the "new" person made, or was "led" to make some assumptions that were not fully founded. These questions do not seem to arise until there is a property sale.