Open Note to Another Captain

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

I was sharing the "no wake" zone between Governor's and Eagle Islands with about 6 other boats. It was early afternoon. I was headed toward The Weirs when I noticed a boat coming at me at close to full speed. I assumed when he hit the NWZ he would slow. He didn't and kept coming right at me. His heading was North/East. I had to give it full-throttle and take defensive evasive action. I got out of his way just as his boat passed right over the spot I had been in. Never slowed down. Never looked at me (wish he had as well as his female companions.) I literally stopped and sat shaking for several minutes. I thought of radioing MP and following the perp., but I was so shaken I couldn't. I've been boating on this Lake since 1961 and that was the closest I've come to being involved in something very serious.

It reminds me of this frightening video:

[garysanfran]

An incredible video! Frightening...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by webmaster

It reminds me of this frightening video:

Was it only last year that I posted a "still-frame" from that crash?

Responses were similar:

"What fishermen have video-cameras running on their boats?"

Fake!

'Guess we found out today.


Every day there's wind and sun...I see the same picture...

>

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ApS

Was it only last year that I posted a "still-frame" from that crash?

Every day there's wind and sun...I see the same picture...

>

What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by chipj29

What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.

Perhaps it’s the fact that both boats are headed directly toward the photographer and the boat operator has to jockey with two boats.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[radiocontester]

Originally Posted by chipj29

What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.

Was that picture taken in 1973?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by radiocontester

Was that picture taken in 1973?

It looks it, doesn't it? And probably taken by someone sitting on a dock!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by ApS

Every day there's wind and sun...I see the same picture...

>

Were you moving or stationary when you took that photo?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by radiocontester

Was that picture taken in 1973?

The camera was a 1980 Nikon E, but leaked light, and the lens was loose. An antique GE digital camera took the attached image below.

I was very late getting into digital cameras, but have five non-working digital cameras but still have three Nikon E "working" cameras, still loaded with color-print, color-slide, and B&W. I'm not risking my two 2¼"x2¼" cameras on Winnipesaukee; however, there's a $185 Hasselblad at eBay!

Originally Posted by Dave R

Were you moving or stationary when you took that photo?

It's a sailboat.

Originally Posted by chipj29

What is so about that picture? The 2 boats are pretty far apart, not to mention the fact that the boat on the right is pretty far behind the boat on the left. That picture is obviously taken from quite a distance, therefore it is very difficult to judge the distance between them accurately.

You've made my point: the speedboat operators are zoned-out in "I-95 mode".

⇨ You don't wait until there's a 150-feet separation between boats before adjusting for your destination.

.

[C-Bass]

I remember a few years ago, I nearly hit a swimmer. Scared the heck out me. I had some family members up and took them out for a nice ride. I was coming out of the Moultonborough Bay though the barber pole, it was kind of flat light type of day with chop. Anyway a swimmer was right out in the channel just before you get the two black/reds before the Jetti. The guy was swimming underwater and popped his head right out in front of me. No bright colored swimwear, nothing that would stick out. I had to take some seriously evasive type of action. Scared the CrAAP out of me and everyone else on the boat. Looked back at the guy and he just kept plugging along like it was nothing, diving bac under water. If I had looked away for a second, and not seen him, I probably would have killed him. I have 23ft boat and that sucker is heavy. The weight of it would have killed him never mind what the outdrive would have done. Always have to keep your head on a swivel out there not just for boats but, also for people swimming in the middle of an active boat lanes!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by ApS

It's a sailboat.

Unless you are both on the same heading (or 180 degrees off), that boat is headed toward a spot that you will have vacated by the time it arrives. It's a common and smart technique to turn directly toward the stand-on boat in a crossing situation, then hold that heading. The stand-on boat is obligated to maintain course and speed, so its bearing, relative to the give-way boat, will change and there will be no collision course. When you see a give-way boat change direction and head directly at you at a distance like that, it's usually a sign that the operator is smart and wants you to know they see you, they are not trying to intimidate you.

[upthesaukee]

APS, I'm glad that sailboat operators never make bad decisions while operating their vessels. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/x8-vfMqMLAM

Dave

[ApS]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

APS, I'm glad that sailboat operators never make bad decisions while operating their vessels. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/x8-vfMqMLAM Dave

Yup. Sailboats have a visibility problem.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by ApS

Yup. Sailboats have a visibility problem.

I think if they just put that sucker in reverse, probably back right off that sailboat!! No problem.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by ApS

Yup. Sailboats have a visibility problem.

That will buff out....

[Descant]

That's the response when you keep yelling "right of way" and tack three times in front of a Captain Bonehead who doesn't slow down for anybody.

[garysanfran]

I see a lot of scary stuff on weekends.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

I see a lot of scary stuff on weekends.

From the pic you can't tell if the sailboat was under power or not, so how do you know he had the right of way?

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

From the pic you can't tell if the sailboat was under power or not, so how do you know he had the right of way?

The sailboat has both it's mainsail and jib up. It was not under power.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

I see a lot of scary stuff on weekends.

Me, too. It's one reason I try to get most of my boating in during the week, particularly late in the day. I've seen more than a few gorgeous sunsets while out on the lake this summer.

[Barney Bear]

Heading in to the mainland just southeast of Timber Island, we were approached by a boat approaching from our starboard quarter. I maintained my course since the other boat was an approaching (overtaking) vessel. When it became obvious that he was not changing his course, I reduced my speed to allow him to pass in front of us. I indicated my displeasure by giving him a thumb's down (I did have a choice of digits to use). The other boat's operator yelled that he had the right-of-way. I presume that he thought he was correct since he was approaching from our right.

There was plenty of lake behind us. He could have easily gone behind us without a change in speed. I believe that most of us would have done so. 🐻

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

Heading in to the mainland just southeast of Timber Island, we were approached by a boat approaching from our starboard quarter. I maintained my course since the other boat was an approaching (overtaking) vessel. When it became obvious that he was not changing his course, I reduced my speed to allow him to pass in front of us. I indicated my displeasure by giving him a thumb's down (I did have a choice of digits to use). The other boat's operator yelled that he had the right-of-way. I presume that he thought he was correct since he was approaching from our right.

There was plenty of lake behind us. He could have easily gone behind us without a change in speed. I believe that most of us would have done so. 🐻

I have seen this same scenario many times and always seem to be the one to “chicken” out from the other boat’s obvious game of chicken.
It’s like most everyone else out there thinks they have the ROW no matter what.

[8gv]

Once the “give way” vessel is not showing any signs of giving way, I alter course or speed to avoid it.

In my experience on Winni this is required about 50% of the time.

So far I have resisted the temptation to communicate any feelings about the bad manners or lack of knowledge to the other captains.

I feel no obligation to educate other boaters.

My sole obligation is the safety of my vessel.

[Descant]

Is this right?
Barney is on course. Vessel #2 approaches from his starboard stern quarter at a higher rate of speed. Barney wisely is keeping a 360 degree look out. So Barney is being overtaken, and has the ROW. #2 moves into Barney's forward starboard quarter and now #2 has the ROW, although still at a higher rate of speed. At some point, Barney slows to avoid a too close approach of the two vessels to each other. Well done, regardless of where the two boats were in the transition of ROW from one to the other. Yes, it probably would have been a safer passage if #2 had altered course and passed behind Barney. #2 should have, in my opinion, done that while Barney still had the obvious ROW. In 49 states without a 150; rule I think this would have been an unremarkable event. (We don't know how close the boats were or for how long, or at what speed except one was faster than the other.)

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Descant

Is this right?
Barney is on course. Vessel #2 approaches from his starboard stern quarter at a higher rate of speed. Barney wisely is keeping a 360 degree look out. So Barney is being overtaken, and has the ROW. #2 moves into Barney's forward starboard quarter and now #2 has the ROW, although still at a higher rate of speed. At some point, Barney slows to avoid a too close approach of the two vessels to each other. Well done, regardless of where the two boats were in the transition of ROW from one to the other. Yes, it probably would have been a safer passage if #2 had altered course and passed behind Barney. #2 should have, in my opinion, done that while Barney still had the obvious ROW. In 49 states without a 150; rule I think this would have been an unremarkable event. (We don't know how close the boats were or for how long, or at what speed except one was faster than the other.)

IMO, vessel #2 in the description above is always the burdened vessel and cannot legally maintain a collision course. It should have slowed or turned to port to pass behind Barney. I don't believe you can legally transition from the give-way vessel to the stand-on vessel (assuming the original stand-on vessel stands on) by simply overtaking on the starboard side. That said, I get that someone could interpret the rules that way.

[Barney Bear]

While boating on Lake Winnipesaukee for sixty-two years, and earlier on the inland rivers of the eastern states of the U.S.A., trouble has been avoided by anticipating what others might do including sailboat movements, boats towing a tuber or skier, a person running a trot line on a river, a tow boat with a string of barges, or other boats operating nearby on the body of water which I was enjoying. When in doubt of another's intent, I simply changed course, slowed down, or stopped. 🐻

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Dave R

IMO, vessel #2 in the description above is always the burdened vessel and cannot legally maintain a collision course. It should have slowed or turned to port to pass behind Barney. I don't believe you can legally transition from the give-way vessel to the stand-on vessel (assuming the original stand-on vessel stands on) by simply overtaking on the starboard side. That said, I get that someone could interpret the rules that way.

I can't disagree with you. But I can see where #2 might think that if he gets abeam, he can just continue on, which is what he did. The big point is, Barney kept a 360 degree watch and acted appropriately. Oops. That's two points.
Off course, nobody rang in and claimed to be #2's captain and give us other info.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

Heading in to the mainland just southeast of Timber Island, we were approached by a boat approaching from our starboard quarter. I maintained my course since the other boat was an approaching (overtaking) vessel. When it became obvious that he was not changing his course, I reduced my speed to allow him to pass in front of us. I indicated my displeasure by giving him a thumb's down (I did have a choice of digits to use). The other boat's operator yelled that he had the right-of-way. I presume that he thought he was correct since he was approaching from our right.

There was plenty of lake behind us. He could have easily gone behind us without a change in speed. I believe that most of us would have done so. 🐻

Well, if you were heading to the mainland, and he was on your right (starboard).... he did have the ROW. You were most likely the Give Way Vessel.

Overtaking only applies when the vessel approaches from the stern.... past the 112.5 deg mark.

Woodsy

[Descant]

Woodsy, I took Barney's phrase "starboard quarter" to mean "stern quarter", and thus overtaking. If it was bow quarter up to 112.5, you are correct.

[Barney Bear]

The boat in my above entry was behind the danger zone of dead ahead to two points abaft (aft) of my starboard beam, thus he was the overtaking vessel.

I always yield rather than quibble. I'm retired and I have all day to get to my destination (whole). 😇

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Descant

Woodsy, I took Barney's phrase "starboard quarter" to mean "stern quarter", and thus overtaking. If it was bow quarter up to 112.5, you are correct.

"Starboard quarter", in marine terms, literally means off the stern on the starboard side. As described, the other captain should have given way long before he/she put the boat on a collision course on the starboard side of the OP's boat.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Descant

Woodsy, I took Barney's phrase "starboard quarter" to mean "stern quarter", and thus overtaking. If it was bow quarter up to 112.5, you are correct.

Descant.....

On first read I took it that way too.... then I reread the thread. If the guy was approaching from the stern quarter, as you indicate, Barney held course and speed the guy would have/should have passed behind him safely... that is what happens past the 112.5 degree mark. Barney also had the option to speed up with the same result.. the guy passes behind Barney.

Barney chose to slow, and allow the guy to pass in front... that action (and that Barney observed the guy was not changing course after some time had passed) tells me the guy was within the 112.5 and Barney was the Give Way.

Like Barney said though... most likely with simple course correction the guy could have safely passed behind Barney. I do that all the time!

BTW.. this is not a criticism of Barney... please don't take it that way. Just dissecting an incident on the lake.

Woodsy

[Tank151]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That will buff out....

Pardon me, but do you have any grey poupon?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Unless you are both on the same heading (or 180 degrees off), that boat is headed toward a spot that you will have vacated by the time it arrives. It's a common and smart technique to turn directly toward the stand-on boat in a crossing situation, then hold that heading. The stand-on boat is obligated to maintain course and speed, so its bearing, relative to the give-way boat, will change and there will be no collision course. When you see a give-way boat change direction and head directly at you at a distance like that, it's usually a sign that the operator is smart and wants you to know they see you, they are not trying to intimidate you.

That's pretty good. But I caution that sailboat speeds on the lake are highly variable, going up and down even more quickly than the breeze itself as the boat's position relative to islands, points, etc can change speed and direction of the wind. Further, sailboats change direction ("tack") more frequently than many powerboat captains realize in order to compensate for these wind changes and other navigational requirements. And of course, many sailboat pilots often have a blind spot when their sails obstruct their view of your power boat.

None of this is to suggest that sailors do not have right of way/stand on obligations, only to point out that the reason they usually have right of way is that they have a significantly tougher time navigating than a non sailor might think. So they should not be expected to be as easy to predict as a power boat.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

That's pretty good. But I caution that sailboat speeds on the lake are highly variable, going up and down even more quickly than the breeze itself as the boat's position relative to islands, points, etc can change speed and direction of the wind. Further, sailboats change direction ("tack") more frequently than many powerboat captains realize in order to compensate for these wind changes and other navigational requirements. And of course, many sailboat pilots often have a blind spot when their sails obstruct their view of your power boat.

None of this is to suggest that sailors do not have right of way/stand on obligations, only to point out that the reason they usually have right of way is that they have a significantly tougher time navigating than a non sailor might think. So they should not be expected to be as easy to predict as a power boat.

Totally agree. My point was that the "offending" boat captain in the photo was very likely well aware of the sailboat and "aiming" for it on purpose. Assuming that the captain is well aware of the other boat and paying attention means he or she is already prepared to adjust course or speed as-needed if the stand-on boat does not stand-on.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Totally agree.
My point was that the "offending" boat captain in the photo was very likely well aware of the sailboat and "aiming" for it on purpose. Assuming that the captain is well aware of the other boat and paying attention means he or she is already prepared to adjust course or speed as-needed if the stand-on boat does not stand-on.

.

[VitaBene]

10 letter word for nonsense? I believe your last name fits that letter count

[MikeF-NH]

Last week I was on vacation and rented a place near the west end of Sallys Gut. I typically avoid the Weirs area at all costs because of the amount of traffic and behavior of boaters in the area but since my wife liked the place we rented, I spent a lot of the week in what I feel are the most dangerous waters on the lake.

The good news is that, for the most part, I found mid-week boaters in the area to be professional and well behaved. I may have been lucky but I only had two incidents that made me shake my head.

The first was when I was approaching the narrow area between the markers off Pitchwood. I would guess the "channel" there is only 200-300 feet wide (being generous) and there were 3 boats stopped there "socializing" with each other. They were right in the middle of the area and seperated enough to completely shutdown the passage for boats on plane which I found equivilent to parking in the left lane on rt 93 to get out and talk to a buddy on the road. I came off plane to pass and in the next minute or so I must have had 6 boats pass me on plane. All these boats were 25-30 footers kicking up massive wakes and definitely within 50 feet of me. While I kept my cool, I was a bit heated as both the behavior of the people lounging in the busy area and the boats ignoring the 150 rule.

The second was after we picked up some lunch in Weirs and were cruising at headway speed toward Governors and enjoying some burgers and fries. There wasn't a boat within a mile of me when a toon came up on my starboard on plane at a distance close enough that I literally could have hit him with a french fry (20 feet). Completely unnecessary as the entrire bay was open to him.

My wife commended me on my cool but as I told her...I was expecting much worse for the week in that area and was greatful that we didn't get any close calls or a lot more of that behavior. I think part of the 150 rule issue is that not all states have the rule and people that come up from other states are unaware of the rule here. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and courtesy SHOULD be the rule on the water but I am understanding of why so many 150 foot rules are broken due to the inconsistent law across state borders. I really expected to see a much more prominent presense of MP in the area...don't think I saw them in the Weirs all week.

Bottom line: drive defensively, always assume the other guys doesn't see you and doesn't know the laws if he did, when it doubt - come off plane and let the dangerous situation pass you. If I have someone following too close...I change my heading and let them pass. Defuse situations before they become dangerous when possible. I am greatful for the 95% of captains on the lake that know what they are doing and give the other 5% a wide birth.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

10 letter word for nonsense? I believe your last name fits that letter count

...harr, harr...


.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by MikeF-NH

There wasn't a boat within a mile of me when a toon came up on my starboard on plane at a distance close enough that I literally could have hit him with a french fry (20 feet). Completely unnecessary as the entrire bay was open to him.

Did it have an upper deck and a slide? That guy did that to me twice in that area...

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by MikeF-NH

There wasn't a boat within a mile of me when a toon came up on my starboard on plane at a distance close enough that I literally could have hit him with a french fry (20 feet). Completely unnecessary as the entrire bay was open to him.

I gotta see you throw a french fry (20 feet).
Nice analogy though.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I gotta see you throw a french fry (20 feet).
Nice analogy though.

Haha...those steak fries will go 20’ easy....

[jazzman]

I really wonder what goes on in the heads of people that stop in the pinch zones. There was a toon with swimmers out near the channel at the bottom of Barndoor the other day. Maybe the wind pushed them down there and they didn't realize it.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by jazzman

I really wonder what goes on in the heads of people that stop in the pinch zones. There was a toon with swimmers out near the channel at the bottom of Barndoor the other day. Maybe the wind pushed them down there and they didn't realize it.

Said it before and I’ll say it again... “ignorance is bliss”

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Unless you are both on the same heading (or 180 degrees off), that boat is headed toward a spot that you will have vacated by the time it arrives. It's a common and smart technique to turn directly toward the stand-on boat in a crossing situation, then hold that heading. The stand-on boat is obligated to maintain course and speed, so its bearing, relative to the give-way boat, will change and there will be no collision course. When you see a give-way boat change direction and head directly at you at a distance like that, it's usually a sign that the operator is smart and wants you to know they see you, they are not trying to intimidate you.

In a radar environment, when controlling aircraft on crossing courses, we commonly would "aim" one aircraft at the crossing aircraft's current position or just behind it. Of course the relative speeds of the aircraft involved must be considered.

I do the same thing on the lake, checking first to make sure no one is coming up on me from astern.

[Eyeboat]

FYI,

The offending captain in this incident was an older gentleman/experienced operator partially disabled and at the time of the accident admitted (during deposition) he often can not see over the bow as he is frequently confined to a chair as a result of his physical limitations.

Originally Posted by ApS

The camera was a 1980 Nikon E, but leaked light, and the lens was loose. An antique GE digital camera took the attached image below.

I was very late getting into digital cameras, but have five non-working digital cameras but still have three Nikon E "working" cameras, still loaded with color-print, color-slide, and B&W. I'm not risking my two 2¼"x2¼" cameras on Winnipesaukee; however, there's a $185 Hasselblad at eBay!


It's a sailboat.


You've made my point: the speedboat operators are zoned-out in "I-95 mode".

⇨ You don't wait until there's a 150-feet separation between boats before adjusting for your destination.

.