Summer Help

[thinkxingu]

Don't forget corporations and corporate welfare, too!

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Unfortunately there are individuals from all walks of life, economic and social strata that scam the system. From politicians to public safety to teachers to landscapers. Whether it be skimming tax dollars, cheating on overtime, or not reporting cash income, it is all the same. I guess we really need to guard against scamming in all “systems” and not just focus on what we may feel are just give sways.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Don't forget corporations and corporate welfare, too!

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In the spirit of inclusiveness, don't forget about civic welfare with all the do nothing government jobs.

I'd like my more educated brethren explain to me how corporate welfare works. Corporations obtain tax breaks and incentives to keep more of their own money. It's their money, not ours or the government's. A small price to pay in consideration that corporations provide jobs and feed our economy. What's the payback for social welfare, except more of it.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by Major

In the spirit of inclusiveness, don't forget about civic welfare with all the do nothing government jobs.

I'd like my more educated brethren explain to me how corporate welfare works. Corporations obtain tax breaks and incentives to keep more of their own money. It's their money, not ours or the government's. A small price to pay in consideration that corporations provide jobs and feed our economy. What's the payback for social welfare, except more of it.

I think the label "corporate welfare" emerge about a decade ago when the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) money was used to prop up the financial system. What many people are not aware of or refuse to bring into the conversation is that TARP was distributed as a loan and the US government made out quite well when it was repaid with interest from those who took advantage of it.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by baygo

I think the label "corporate welfare" emerge about a decade ago when the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) money was used to prop up the financial system. What many people are not aware of or refuse to bring into the conversation is that TARP was distributed as a loan and the US government made out quite well when it was repaid with interest from those who took advantage of it.

TARP created the label BAILOUT, "corpotate welfare" has been aroound for many many decades.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Major

In the spirit of inclusiveness, don't

...What's the payback for social welfare, except more of it.

...the adoption of Medicare reduced the % of seniors living in poverty from around 35% down to around 12%.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

...the adoption of Medicare reduced the % of seniors living in poverty from around 35% down to around 12%.

Who pays for Medicare? Taxpayers and employers (FICA-HI)

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Who pays for Medicare? Taxpayers and employers (FICA-HI)

And medicare beneficiaries. A LOT. Why do you think it's a giveaway? If I were working, I'd be furious at that. We pay a high premium and an extra amount on top of that to support freeloaders and others who haven't bothered to save and are now wards of the state. It's not just working people who pay.

I had over 20K of unreimbursed medical expenses last year. I hardly see it as a windfall and I wish younger people understood it better.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Who pays for Medicare? Taxpayers and employers (FICA-HI)

You for got the employee who all have Medicare taxes taken out of their checks. Look at your FICA tax


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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

You for got the employee who all have Medicare taxes taken out of their checks. Look at your FICA tax


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That’s what I meant when I said “taxpayers”
Employees=taxpayers, no?

[Major]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

...the adoption of Medicare reduced the % of seniors living in poverty from around 35% down to around 12%.

I look at it differently. We're creating another safety net, and not empowering individuals to take ownership of their own retirement. I'd rather have the money that I've contributed to Medicare for the past 30+ years, invest it, and manage on my own. I would even be willing to pay a percentage (25%) and opt out to manage my own funds. SSN for that matter too.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I look at it differently. We're creating another safety net, and not empowering individuals to take ownership of their own retirement. I'd rather have the money that I've contributed to Medicare for the past 30+ years, invest it, and manage on my own. I would even be willing to pay a percentage (25%) and opt out to manage my own funds. SSN for that matter too.

That's fine for you but if you left retirement up to most individuals there would be a severe senior citizen poverty population. One worse than what already exists.
Life happens and many people dip into their IRA's and 401K's when set backs in their life and work history arises. Not everyone is always financially stable throughout their life time.
If we didn't have SS we would have a lot more senior citizens on welfare which would be far worse.

[kawishiwi]

What many miss about Medicare & Social Security when they claim "I paid for it" is that most will receive greater benefits than their contributions & interest would cover. AND its a lifetime guarantee. Much more like a combination of annuity & insurance.
Like any annuity & insurance policy the 'guaranty' is only as good as the guarantor which in this case is the US govt. The risk that these programs will 'run out of money' due to deficit spending, most recently accelerated greatly due to recent tax cuts, are balanced by the taxation power of a nation. I can't even hallucinate a scenario where US politicians would vote in a majority to reduce seniors benefits ... so the taxes will go up & benefits will be paid.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

... I can't even hallucinate a scenario where US politicians would vote in a majority to reduce seniors benefits ... so the taxes will go up & benefits will be paid.

I can and it's not even a hallucination. Consider several European countries that are now on the brink of bankruptcy because leaders over promised benefits to people. Governments have limits on the amount of money they can pretend to have. They go into debt. Someone needs to pick up that debt. If the debt is excessive, creditors will not buy in because they know the government can go into default and they would lose their investment. Think Greece. They have had to be bailed out repeatedly in recent times.

Besides that, there are sneaky government ways to reduce benefits that never require a vote. They reduce the amount they will pay for the benefit. Less providers can afford to do it for that price. Now there is a waiting list that stretches into years. People suffer because they cannot get timely care. They can also deny benefits for various reasons. After you cut through the baloney, the reason they tightened the rules is to cut costs. It's happening NOW under Medicare.

BTW, how did this thread get hijacked from summer help to government benefits?

[rick35]

I started this thread to relate a positive experience about a visiting server and it has been completely derailed to the point of venting about Medicare and Social Security. Nice job.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I can and it's not even a hallucination. Consider several European countries that are now on the brink of bankruptcy because leaders over promised benefits to people. Governments have limits on the amount of money they can pretend to have. They go into debt. Someone needs to pick up that debt. If the debt is excessive, creditors will not buy in because they know the government can go into default and they would lose their investment. Think Greece. They have had to be bailed out repeatedly in recent times.

Bad example. If you look at Greece, and many of the other countries in that predicament, the issue is really their poor record of collecting taxes to pay for their benefits plus to low employment levels.


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[garysanfran]

Why not go 10X better and make it $150?

Better yet, give everyone $1,000,000 at birth. Everyone is now rich. No one has to work. Everyone can afford a house of their own and a really nice car.

Good news? You're a millionaire!

Bad news? So is everyone else.

Economics works best in a free market. Attempts at Govt. control creates unsustainable results without ongoing support.

Sorry for the caffeine rant...It is that time of the day. Check The Laconia Daily Sun and then go on The Winni Forum to vent...

Whew! Time for a nap!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I can and it's not even a hallucination. Consider several European countries that are now on the brink of bankruptcy because leaders over promised benefits to people. Governments have limits on the amount of money they can pretend to have. They go into debt. Someone needs to pick up that debt. If the debt is excessive, creditors will not buy in because they know the government can go into default and they would lose their investment. Think Greece. They have had to be bailed out repeatedly in recent times.



Bad example. If you look at Greece, and many of the other countries in that predicament, the issue is really their poor record of collecting taxes to pay for their benefits plus to low employment levels.


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But we need the money for "space Force".

[Major]

Great, now Laconia is going to invest in drug rehab facilities. That should really brighten things up in Laconia.

At least this approach solves the original problem posed by the OP. Summer help most certainly will be found in the Section 8 inhabitants and the drug rehab success stories. I can't wait to go out to eat!

Seriously, I regret building our dream home in Laconia. I wish I had an idea that the City so desperate for money would be pursuing Federal subsidies with wreckless abandon. On the bright side, the Section 8 people and the drug rehab folks will have the Colonial Theater and the WOW trail.

[tbonies]

Originally Posted by Major

Great, now Laconia is going to invest in drug rehab facilities. That should really brighten things up in Laconia.



At least this approach solves the original problem posed by the OP. Summer help most certainly will be found in the Section 8 inhabitants and the drug rehab success stories. I can't wait to go out to eat!



Seriously, I regret building our dream home in Laconia. I wish I had an idea that the City so desperate for money would be pursuing Federal subsidies with wreckless abandon. On the bright side, the Section 8 people and the drug rehab folks will have the Colonial Theater and the WOW trail.

“The Section 8 people”? Give me a break. There but for the grace of God go I.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by tbonies

“The Section 8 people”? Give me a break. There but for the grace of God go I.


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Have you ever seen Section 8 apartments? A close relative owned 6 units in Laconia for over 30 years. (He took Federal money to rehab the buildings so he was obligated to rent to Section 8.) Four out of five tenants left the place uninhabitable. They lived like animals. Everything had to be replaced, flooring, countertops, appliances, etc. I had the privilege of cleaning them out.

Of course not all are bad. My grandparents were poor, but they had jobs, worked hard, and lived in a clean place. Unfortunately this is not the case with the people Laconia is attracting to live in these apartments. I agree with your statement, but that doesn’t solve the problem. Instead of feeling sorry for them, we shouldn’t tolerate the behavior.


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[tis]

Originally Posted by Major

Have you ever seen Section 8 apartments? A close relative owned 6 units in Laconia for over 30 years. (He took Federal money to rehab the buildings so he was obligated to rent to Section 8.) Four out of five tenants left the place uninhabitable. They lived like animals. Everything had to be replaced, flooring, countertops, appliances, etc. I had the privilege of cleaning them out.

Of course not all are bad. My grandparents were poor, but they had jobs, worked hard, and lived in a clean place. Unfortunately this is not the case with the people Laconia is attracting to live in these apartments. I agree with your statement, but that doesn’t solve the problem. Instead of feeling sorry for them, we shouldn’t tolerate the behavior.


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That doesn't surprise me. What a shame some people just don't know how to live any differently. You often hear about the slum landlords and I always think, who ruins the places. But the landlords get blamed.

[Major]

Originally Posted by tis

That doesn't surprise me. What a shame some people just don't know how to live any differently. You often hear about the slum landlords and I always think, who ruins the places. But the landlords get blamed.

Exactly! My relative sold the places in 2010 because someone called him a slumlord. He was incensed, because he knew first hand what he put up with. It wasn't worth the effort so he sold the on the cheap. Landlords get a bad rap.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by tis

That doesn't surprise me. What a shame some people just don't know how to live any differently. You often hear about the slum landlords and I always think, who ruins the places. But the landlords get blamed.

Lol...you reminded me of my cousin, many years ago, who worked for a construction company that had a contract with rehabbing the “projects” apartments in Lawrence, MA
You wouldn’t believe what the “tenants” of these apartments did to them while living there. One that comes to mind is removing kitchen cabinet doors and installing chicken wire over them for your own in-house chicken coop...you can only imagine what else they did...

[tis]

I remember years ago seeing the deserted public housing in Bridgeport, Connecticut. They had stripped the buildings of everything and I mean everything to sell. All that was left was the brick. I was young and couldn't believe it. Now i can.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tis

I remember years ago seeing the deserted public housing in Bridgeport, Connecticut. They had stripped the buildings of everything and I mean everything to sell. All that was left was the brick. I was young and couldn't believe it. Now I can.

Things got so bad in St. Louis, MO, the city dynamited 33 "iconic" public housing units that had been started only 25 years earlier.

The same architect also designed the WTC twin towers.

[tis]

And that's what so frustrating. The government waste of our tax money. I am sorry to hear that Laconia is disappointing so many people. I always thought as cities go, Laconia isn't bad.

[upthesaukee]

Back to summer help...

This weekend will be the last weekend for The Sandy Point Restaurant in Alton Bay to be open. Most of the help has gone back to school.

Pop's Clam Shell will be closed Mon through Thurs this coming week, due to most of the staff back to school. They will open on Fri for Labor Day Weekend, and then closed for the season.

Dave

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by Major

Great, now Laconia is going to invest in drug rehab facilities. That should really brighten things up in Laconia.

At least this approach solves the original problem posed by the OP. Summer help most certainly will be found in the Section 8 inhabitants and the drug rehab success stories. I can't wait to go out to eat!

Seriously, I regret building our dream home in Laconia. I wish I had an idea that the City so desperate for money would be pursuing Federal subsidies with wreckless abandon. On the bright side, the Section 8 people and the drug rehab folks will have the Colonial Theater and the WOW trail.

Sorry to hear you built in Laconia. It used to be a working-class town....these days not so much

Over the last several years I've slowly sold off all my rental units & recently the condo I've lived in as my main residence was sold. I'm out.

Fortunately, I broke even on the properties, but I have a very dim view of the future of Laconia.

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

What many miss about Medicare & Social Security when they claim "I paid for it" is that most will receive greater benefits than their contributions & interest would cover. AND its a lifetime guarantee. Much more like a combination of annuity & insurance.

Surely you are not thinking medicare is free to everyone. If you have little income, it is, but our premiums are higher than we ever imagined, and drug costs are enormous. Many things are not covered. Not seeing a guarantee so far, but one can always hope.

mac

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Macavity

Surely you are not thinking medicare is free to everyone. If you have little income, it is, but our premiums are higher than we ever imagined, and drug costs are enormous. Many things are not covered. Not seeing a guarantee so far, but one can always hope.

mac

Um, never said it was free. Dont know where you got that.
What do you imagine your premiums would be if Medicare didnt exist? Medical costs are lower in Medicare, at the same age for same coverage, than outside of Medicare. Thats why the program exists. The average Medicare recipient will recieve reduced costs exceeding the amount of money they paid in, plus interest.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...r-seniors/amp/

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

What many miss about Medicare & Social Security when they claim "I paid for it" is that most will receive greater benefits than their contributions & interest would cover. AND its a lifetime guarantee. Much more like a combination of annuity & insurance

You are equating SS and Medicare, which makes no sense. An old person who lives awhile will certainly earn more in SS benefits than he ever paid in, but Medicare isn't an entitlement in the sense that the checks are set and then keep rolling in because one "paid for it." Medicare has premiums, subsidized by many people, now seniors, who paid medicare taxes when working and also by current workers. It's not a matter of "I paid, now I'm entitled," which one hears from some SS recipients.

It's really expensive if you have any income, but many people who are working think it's another giveaway to old people and resent it.

Not sure what the lifetime guarantee is about. If you don't apply within a certain window, you will be subjected to underwriting, which will inflate your premium beyond belief, forever. You are guaranteed to the extent you come on board right away and don't require anything beyond the norm. Other than that, it's out of pocket all the way, especially for drugs.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Macavity

You are equating SS and Medicare, which makes no sense. An old person who lives awhile will certainly earn more in SS benefits than he ever paid in, but Medicare isn't an entitlement in the sense that the checks are set and then keep rolling in because one "paid for it." Medicare has premiums, subsidized by many people, now seniors, who paid medicare taxes when working and also by current workers. It's not a matter of "I paid, now I'm entitled," which one hears from some SS recipients.

It's really expensive if you have any income, but many people who are working think it's another giveaway to old people and resent it.

Not sure what the lifetime guarantee is about. If you don't apply within a certain window, you will be subjected to underwriting, which will inflate your premium beyond belief, forever. You are guaranteed to the extent you come on board right away and don't require anything beyond the norm. Other than that, it's out of pocket all the way, especially for drugs.

So tell me...why do you continue with Medicare if you think it has no benefit to you?

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

So tell me...why do you continue with Medicare if you think it has no benefit to you?

I didn't say it has no benefit; I said it isn't some giveaway one earns by being old and having paid into, like SS. It can be quite expensive and many older people join the workers in paying for those who get it for free.

Done being baited here. Find someone else.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

In the spirit of inclusiveness, don't forget about civic welfare with all the do nothing government jobs.

I'd like my more educated brethren explain to me how corporate welfare works. Corporations obtain tax breaks and incentives to keep more of their own money. It's their money, not ours or the government's. A small price to pay in consideration that corporations provide jobs and feed our economy. What's the payback for social welfare, except more of it.

Like assistance to the poor, some government assistance to corporations makes sense, and some we might all agree is "corporate welfare" Some examples:

It probably made sense for the feds to bail out the car companies in 2008/9--they were crucial employers and as another poster noted, the government made a tidy profit.

But the feds probably went overboard with their (at the time necessary) assistance to the big banks, as witnessed by the banks' extraordinary profits over the past few years with few apparent trickle down effects or return to the Treasury (are there enough retail bank offices in your neighborhood?).

A great recent example of corporate welfare is the Energy Dept proposal (still under discussion) to force electric utilities to buy coal to hold in reserve.