....property taxes too high?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I bet Mr. Bahre would disagree. His over 1/3 MILLION Dollar contribution does not give him a vote on how the money is wasted by the Town of Alton.

No it doesn't but he does have the right to contest the assessment especially if as he points out the place is not moving when the current asking price is below assessed value. I'd say he has a valid point to suggest it's to high. To point out that potential buyers are noticing this and stating that is not a matter of "complaining" it's a matter of fact isn't it?

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

No it doesn't but he does have the right to contest the assessment especially if as he points out the place is not moving when the current asking price is below assessed value. I'd say he has a valid point to suggest it's to high. To point out that potential buyers are noticing this and stating that is not a matter of "complaining" it's a matter of fact isn't it?

From the post of yours that I quoted above....

A vested interest, yes.... Any say in the matter NO!

Owning property in the state only gives you the right to pay property taxes. No right to say how it is spent.

WOW!

Anyone who owns property in the state has a vested interest in how taxes are assessed on their property and how their tax money is spent. Where one permanently resides is rather irrelevant to the subject matter in hand unless you are purposely just trying to stir the pot. Frankly I think it's good that there is interest in the subject only because so many will just bury their heads in the sand and just say it is what it is. Respectfully if you don't like the conversation then don't read it. For the rest of us that are having this discussion whether I agree with them or not still find it interesting.

That's from a NH native and resident BTW.

[MAXUM]

Indeed but I never suggested a nonresident has the ability to vote.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Indeed but I never suggested a nonresident has the ability to vote.

Without the ability to vote, how do non-resident property owners have the ability to say how their tax money is spent? (see your own post above that states that they do). Being a permanent resident is not irrelevant in this situation.

[fatlazyless]

For tax year 2017 and going back to 1913 when federal personal income tax was first enacted, all local property taxes had been deductible against your income tax payment on a dollar to dollar basis.

Starting in tax year 2018, and due on April 15, 2019, the deduction is now limited to ten thousand dollars.

So, for people with property taxes higher than ten thousand dollars, it means paying that annual property tax bill with real money, as opposed to using it to reduce your federal tax from other various types of income, and that happens every year going forward, until this new tax rule gets changed ..... if and when it ever does.

It was signed into law by the President on Dec 22, 2017, at 11:30-am in the Oval Office just before he flew off to Mar-A-Lago for a family and golf stay-cation for Christmas and New Years.

By eliminating the property tax deduction, it makes owning the property more expensive, because there's no trade-off deduction for above the first ten thousand dollars of annual property tax.

We can all shed a tear for those who pay more than ten thousand dollars in property taxes and no longer have this deduction for the amount that is above ten thousand....... boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo ....... crocodile tears ...... to you! Making America Great Again! ...... one plus-$10,000 tax payer at a time ....... "thank you very much."

So, what will this new annual expense do to the value of these high value properties?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

For tax year 2017 and going back to 1913 when federal personal income tax was first enacted, all local property taxes had been deductible against your income tax payment on a dollar to dollar basis.

Starting in tax year 2018, and due on April 15, 2019, the deduction is now limited to ten thousand dollars.

So, for people with property taxes higher than ten thousand dollars, it means paying that annual property tax bill with real money, as opposed to using it to reduce your federal tax from other various types of income, and that happens every year going forward, until this new tax rule gets changed ..... if and when it ever does.

It was signed into law by the President on Dec 22, 2017, at 11:30-am in the Oval Office just before he flew off to Mar-A-Lago for a family and golf stay-cation for Christmas and New Years.

By eliminating the property tax deduction, it makes owning the property more expensive, because there's no trade-off deduction for above the first ten thousand dollars of annual property tax.

We can all shed a tear for those who pay more than ten thousand dollars in property taxes and no longer have this deduction for the amount that is above ten thousand....... boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo ....... crocodile tears ...... to you! Making America Great Again! ...... one plus-$10,000 tax payer at a time ....... "thank you very much."

So, what will this new annual expense do to the value of these high value properties?

Hmmm, you forgot to put the lower tax rates into your calculations Less. I still chuckle when I remember the Boston Tea Party happened because of a 3 penny duty...… how compliant we have become.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Out of State property owners love to lament NH's tax structure... but it is out of state property owners that drive up the property values thus increasing thier own tax burden.

The median household income for towns around the lake is approximately $60 - $65K....
The average waterfront/water access property on the lake is well over $400 - $500K. These waterfront properties are priced completely out of reach for the residents of lakeside communities. The reason for that is they are bought up by wealthier out of state people, primarily as 2nd homes. It is the out of state people that drive up the pricing of the properties... not NH residents. If you don't like paying the property taxes... sell out to a wealthier out of state person and buy a 2nd property in a state with lower property taxes, but an overall higher tax burden. Woodsy

On a walk, I happened by a new Washington, DC, lakefront neighbor, who'd put out a row of black garbage bags for collection the next morning. What should poke out of one bag, but a copy of Power magazine!

.

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

For tax year 2017 and going back to 1913 when federal personal income tax was first enacted, all local property taxes had been deductible against your income tax payment on a dollar to dollar basis.
Starting in tax year 2018, and due on April 15, 2019, the deduction is now limited to ten thousand dollars.
So, for people with property taxes higher than ten thousand dollars, it means paying that annual property tax bill with real money, as opposed to using it to reduce your federal tax from other various types of income, and that happens every year going forward, until this new tax rule gets changed ..... if and when it ever does.
It was signed into law by the President on Dec 22, 2017, at 11:30-am in the Oval Office just before he flew off to Mar-A-Lago for a family and golf stay-cation for Christmas and New Years.
By eliminating the property tax deduction, it makes owning the property more expensive, because there's no trade-off deduction for above the first ten thousand dollars of annual property tax. We can all shed a tear for those who pay more than ten thousand dollars in property taxes and no longer have this deduction for the amount that is above ten thousand....... boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo ....... crocodile tears ...... to you! Making America Great Again! ...... one plus-$10,000 tax payer at a time ....... "thank you very much."

So, what will this new annual expense do to the value of these high value properties?

1) As a Wolfeboro taxpayer, this new law affects me and the neighbors.

2) I'd expect real estate prices to start sliding down. (As owners and buyers discover the non-deductibility of their property taxes >$10,000—vis-à-vis their new tax bracket).

I'd welcome the counsel of a CPA.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Without the ability to vote, how do non-resident property owners have the ability to say how their tax money is spent? (see your own post above that states that they do). Being a permanent resident is not irrelevant in this situation.

No you are interpreting what I said that way. I specifically used the words "vested interest" which as defined means "a person or group having a personal stake or involvement" You do not have to be a voter per say to have either a personal stake or involvement in what goes on in a place where you do not reside.

Voting is just one way to be involved but not the only one. For example the newly formed Meredith Island Assoc is engaging Meredith town officials over a number of issues and these folks are not all full time town residents. They are lobbying the town on the behalf of all Meredith island residents and if successful there likely will be some return on the tax dollars that are paid by the folks they are representing in the way of expenditures by the town for various things. For disclosure purposes I am not a member of this association just using it for illustrative purposes.

[tummyman]

Remember the Boston Tea Party was about Taxation without Representation. Non resident property taxpayers are totally disenfranchised from voting on how their local tax dollars are spent, yet they depend on some local services over which they have no real say. There is no real reason (other than state laws) why towns cannot maintain a voting list for use ONLY in Town elections and for voting at town meeting. You can bet there will be no move to change the state laws!

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Without the ability to vote, how do non-resident property owners have the ability to say how their tax money is spent? (see your own post above that states that they do). Being a permanent resident is not irrelevant in this situation.

It should be. I’d love to know how much of the tax base is out of state resident owned property for the towns around the lake.


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[Woodsy]

Out of State property owners love to lament NH's tax structure... but it is out of state property owners that drive up the property values thus increasing thier own tax burden.

The median household income for towns around the lake is approximately $60 - $65K.... The average waterfront/water access property on the lake is well over $400 - $500K. These waterfront properties are priced completely out of reach for the residents of lakeside communities.

The reason for that is they are bought up by wealthier out of state people, primarily as 2nd homes. It is the out of state people that drive up the pricing of the properties... not NH residents.

If you don't like paying the property taxes... sell out to a wealthier out of state person and buy a 2nd property in a state with lower property taxes, but an overall higher tax burden.

Woodsy

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Out of State property owners love to lament NH's tax structure... but it is out of state property owners that drive up the property values thus increasing thier own tax burden.

The median household income for towns around the lake is approximately $60 - $65K.... The average waterfront/water access property on the lake is well over $400 - $500K. These waterfront properties are priced completely out of reach for the residents of lakeside communities.

The reason for that is they are bought up by wealthier out of state people, primarily as 2nd homes. It is the out of state people that drive up the pricing of the properties... not NH residents.

If you don't like paying the property taxes... sell out to a wealthier out of state person and buy a 2nd property in a state with lower property taxes, but an overall higher tax burden.

Woodsy

I'm not sure most lakefront owners really worry or care about the taxes. I said most, there are some who scrape to afford a lakefront home and maybe didn't plan for the inevitable taxes. In reality the tax payment should be close to in the noise for any property owner. If it is not, then the owner may have too much home and should consider downsizing.


Just one caveat in my comment: I'm just considering this from a financial point of view, do not construe the above comment as support for unjust taxation.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

It should be. I’d love to know how much of the tax base is out of state resident owned property for the towns around the lake.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Just keep in mind that this applies to a number of things. Take for instance those that live in one state and work in another and have to pay income tax. Should they be allowed to vote in that state where income tax is paid? It's taxation w/o representation. Since those that do have no place of "non-residency" where should they vote and for what?

Intriguing question isn't it? Same can be said for sales tax, gas tax, liquor tax, tobacco tax, and the list goes on and on far as broad based taxes that are paid.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

It should be. I’d love to know how much of the tax base is out of state resident owned property for the towns around the lake.

In Wolfeboro and New Durham, it's between 60 and 70 percent, ND on the lower end of that scale, Wolfeboro on the higher side.