Wolfeboro Tax Rate

[Major]

Originally Posted by bigpatsfan

So, let me understand this: Every time taxes go up it is because of all the people from Massachusetts!

The culture has changed. The size of government is the problem. Prior to the influx of outsiders (of course they are not all from Massachusetts), we did not look to government to solve our problems. Government leaders were tasked with the responsibility to reduce the size of government, not grow it.

You want an example, here's one.

When I was in 7th grade at Memorial Middle School in Laconia, we had the following as overhead (administration):

Principal - Mr. Harding
Vice Principal - Mr. St. Lawrence
Guidance Counselor - Mr. Jacques
Guidance Counselor - Mr. Wittum
Phys. Ed. - Mr. Fitzgerald
Music Teacher
Spanish Teacher (part time)
French Teacher (part time)
Librarian
Nurse
Secretary

That's it. Each class had two teams, so there were an additional total of 6 Math Teachers, 6 English Teachers, 6 History Teachers and 6 Science Teachers that serviced Grades 6, 7 and 8. The total amount of adults running Memorial Middle School was 35. This was to service 600 students.

Now look at Laconia Middle School. http://lmslaconia.weebly.com/staff-directory.html. 61 staff members (didn't include custodian or kitchen staff), of which there are only 21 teach Math, English, History and Science. 40 overhead positions! All to teach approximately 350 students. Proportionally, there should only be 16 Math, English, History and Science teachers.

We could eliminate half of the positions at Laconia Middle School and not miss a beat. Perhaps "services" may suffer, but I don't think the results would be any different.

All of government is like this. I could go through the same exercise with city hall, police, fire, etc. They have all expanded over the past 30 years, all for a population that has remained essentially the same - 16,000.

Hope this helps.

[Biggd]

It's not just government that's growing bigger it's everything. More people means more services are needed. That's how the economy grows.
Every state has an increase in population. If they didn't then they are doing something wrong. It means no one wants to live there or visit there.
You can't pick and choose who you want to let into the state because they don't fit your profile of a worthy person.
The Lakes Region is a resort area and it's population is always going to have wide seasonal fluctuations.
I will agree with you, Laconia is a poorly managed city.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

It's not just government that's growing bigger it's everything. More people means more services are needed. That's how the economy grows.
Every state has an increase in population. If they didn't then they are doing something wrong. It means no one wants to live there or visit there.
You can't pick and choose who you want to let into the state because they don't fit your profile of a worthy person.
The Lakes Region is a resort area and it's population is always going to have wide seasonal fluctuations.
I will agree with you, Laconia is a poorly managed city.

But in my example, there are less people (600 vs. 350). Our mindsets have changed. 41 years ago we had 35 people servicing 600 students. Today we have 61 people servicing 350 students. There are "services" now that weren't even contemplated 30/40 years ago. Do we need them? Do they make a difference?

You're right, we can't nor do we want to pick and choose who lives in the state. It is after all America. However, if we didn't offer such "services" then perhaps we would attract the people who will help us grow our economy and pay taxes to fund necessary government services instead of people looking to us to pay for their services.

[Biggd]

Or maybe Laconia needs to build a wall.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Or maybe Laconia needs to build a wall.

In South Down/Long Bay, we have a gate! Is that good enough?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Major

The culture has changed. The size of government is the problem. Prior to the influx of outsiders (of course they are not all from Massachusetts), we did not look to government to solve our problems. Government leaders were tasked with the responsibility to reduce the size of government, not grow it.

You want an example, here's one.

When I was in 7th grade at Memorial Middle School in Laconia, we had the following as overhead (administration):

Principal - Mr. Harding
Vice Principal - Mr. St. Lawrence
Guidance Counselor - Mr. Jacques
Guidance Counselor - Mr. Wittum
Phys. Ed. - Mr. Fitzgerald
Music Teacher
Spanish Teacher (part time)
French Teacher (part time)
Librarian
Nurse
Secretary

That's it. Each class had two teams, so there were an additional total of 6 Math Teachers, 6 English Teachers, 6 History Teachers and 6 Science Teachers that serviced Grades 6, 7 and 8. The total amount of adults running Memorial Middle School was 35. This was to service 600 students.

Now look at Laconia Middle School. http://lmslaconia.weebly.com/staff-directory.html. 61 staff members (didn't include custodian or kitchen staff), of which there are only 21 teach Math, English, History and Science. 40 overhead positions! All to teach approximately 350 students. Proportionally, there should only be 16 Math, English, History and Science teachers.

We could eliminate half of the positions at Laconia Middle School and not miss a beat. Perhaps "services" may suffer, but I don't think the results would be any different.

All of government is like this. I could go through the same exercise with city hall, police, fire, etc. They have all expanded over the past 30 years, all for a population that has remained essentially the same - 16,000.

Hope this helps.

You forgot to mention that you walked 5 miles each way to and from school in the rain, snow and heat. No bus back in the day. Now the increased local government expenses and resultant tax increases are my fault because I have a house in NH and I spend much of my disposable income in the lakes region supporting the local economy.

[Major]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

You forgot to mention that you walked 5 miles each way to and from school in the rain, snow and heat. No bus back in the day. Now the increased local government expenses and resultant tax increases are my fault because I have a house in NH and I spend much of my disposable income in the lakes region supporting the local economy.

Firstly, I took the bus. Secondly, I have no issue with those who have second homes here. They don’t vote. My issue is with those who move here full time and want the same services they were used to receiving in Mass, RI, Connecticut and NY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

Firstly, I took the bus. Secondly, I have no issue with those who have second homes here. They don’t vote. My issue is with those who move here full time and want the same services they were used to receiving in Mass, RI, Connecticut and NY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What a terrible thing, to want to see advancement in services. We must build a wall to keep out those Democrats.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Biggd

What a terrible thing, to want to see advancement in services. We must build a wall to keep out those Democrats.

Wow, Major! I bet you didn't expect such an honest answer!

[Major]

Originally Posted by tis

Wow, Major! I bet you didn't expect such an honest answer!

I didn't. But his first sentence again ignores the point. NH government has a proud tradition of being lean and mean, and that has changed. If you want or need services, go somewhere where they value them. Stay in Mass with 5.35 income tax and 6.25 sales tax. They can afford all the most wonderful services desired.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I didn't. But his first sentence again ignores the point. NH government has a proud tradition of being lean and mean, and that has changed. If you want or need services, go somewhere where they value them. Stay in Mass with 5.35 income tax and 6.25 sales tax. They can afford all the most wonderful services desired.

That's what the wall is for!

[CTYankee]

Originally Posted by Major

I didn't. But his first sentence again ignores the point. NH government has a proud tradition of being lean and mean, and that has changed. If you want or need services, go somewhere where they value them. Stay in Mass with 5.35 income tax and 6.25 sales tax. They can afford all the most wonderful services desired.

a state that makes Massachusetts look red by comparison. Connecticut offers government control for life. All the services huge taxes can pay for, and then some. Personal responsibility - a thing of the past.

Hopefully New Hampshire will come to its senses and return to its motto: Live Free or Die.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by CTYankee

a state that makes Massachusetts look red by comparison. Connecticut offers government control for life. All the services huge taxes can pay for, and then some. Personal responsibility - a thing of the past.

Hopefully New Hampshire will come to its senses and return to its motto: Live Free or Die.

There's nothing free about NH.

[8gv]

People move to a place hoping it won’t change but...

their very presence changes the place.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by Biggd

There's nothing free about NH.

Speaking of things not free, we have not received our second tax bill from Meredith yet.
Are they late sending them?

[secondcurve]

As with most issues the truth is somewhere in the middle. For example, I cringe when I see what is going on in Georgia. A far left politician is within a whisker of claiming the governorship. What does she want to do? You guessed it she wants to raise taxes which isn’t surprising given she is on the far left. The twist is she hasn’t paid her personal income taxes for years and she has a payment plan with the IRS! Shouldn’t it be against the law to run for office if you haven’t paid your taxes? Of course it should. How is it possible this lady was able to get 49% of the vote in a state like Georgia?

On the other extreme is the great state of NH. It is one of the least taxed statesin the union and Wolfeboro has a relatively low tax rate in the state. Shouldn’t we be able to spend more on the schools in Wolfeboro? I think yes. The issue is the tax system in NH is so heavily reliant on real estate. It shouldn’t be but it is. How can it be fixed? Shift the burden to other revenue sources is clearly the answer. However, a lot of folks are afraid once this happens the genie is out of the bottle and taxes will never stop going up which is probably true.

So how do we fix all these problems? Clearly the answer is to elect officials in the center of the political spectrum and compromise like we used to but this doesn’t happen any longer. A very said state of affairs.