Amilia's Law NH HB 1711 for safe gas and propane heating

[CraigJosph]

Why Do We Need This Bill?
Today’s voluntary certification in New Hampshire does not protect you, since your builder and contractors have the option to use anyone they want to work on your gas system. They might believe a certain individual could do the work (i.e., putting pipes together) but this worker might not know the Code and proper procedures to ensure a safe system.

HB1711, Amilia's Law, will require mandatory training and licensing. You will know that licensed workers have been taught how to properly install or repair your gas system and make sure it is safe.

In New Hampshire, plumbers are required to be licensed to work with water and waste systems, but not with explosive gas fueled systems. Let' get the right training to those working with hazardous fuels.

Please see www.amiliaslaw.org for more information

thanks you, the Luhrmanns

contactus@amiliaslaw.org

[Woodsy]

I will be sure to bang off a few e-mails to my representatives. Hopefully this law will pass....

Woodsy

[jrc]

If this bill passes will I be able to hook up my gas grill tank with out a license? I'm talking about the 20lb tank I bring down to be filled.

[Skip]

No, you will not need a license to connect portable gas bottle devices.

This proposed bill actually amends existing statute by requiring structured licensing for existing commercial and residential gas supply piping. It is added in after RSA 329-a, which defines requirements for the plumbing profession.

Here is the applicable section defining the type of work that would be regulated with this proposed regulation:

"...III. “Fuel gas fitting” means the installation, repair of pipes, fixtures, fittings, appliances, or apparatus necessary for supplying natural gas or propane for residential or commercial use from the point of delivery and all gas piping before connection to the combustion zone and including the applicable venting of flue gases to the outside atmosphere and the provisions for air for combustion and ventilation..."

This is a basic "common sense" type regulation that will hopefully find easy passage in the House....and help find closure & peace for the family so dreadfully affected by the tragedy that proceeded the introduction of this legislation.

Skip

[fatlazyless]

And another way to protect your home is with a gas leak detector. About $75. each, as of 13 years ago and come in
plug-in 110 volt or 9 volt battery or a model that works with a home burglar alarm-central monitor. These are a different item than a carbon monoxide detector. Not a bad idea if you have propane gas lines made out of 3/8" or 1/2" soft copper running through a crawl space or anywhere. Some do-it-yourselfers may make the mistake of using compression fittings which are designed for water lines and not propane lines.

Made in Israel, these 3x8x4"c off-white detectors are very reliable and I have no idea if the prices have come down or what. Used to be sold by Head's Electric Amerigas-Laconia and maybe still are.

Isn't this why they used to keep caged canarys way down in coal mines?

[CraigJosph]

The law would only apply to those hired to work in your home. It doesn't apply to the homeowner, either hooking up the gas grill or repairing your furnace or appliance, you don't need a license to work in your own home. Although it does say if you work on your gas system yourself, the work is to conform to code; gotta do it right.

[CraigJosph]

www.safehomeproducts.com search for gas detector, $35 mount near ceiling for natural gas, near the floor for propane

[NHKathy]

CraigJosph: I'm not a resident of New Hampshire (family owns a home there though), if I were -I'd be e-mailing the polititians. This bill has got to pass!
What a touching web site dedicated to Amilia and Amilia's Law. What a beautiful little girl. A beautiful angel. I am very sorry for you and your family's loss -what a tragic event. My heart goes out to you.
--Kathy

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I am so very sorry for the loss of your darling little Amilia. It is a senseless, horrible, heartbreaking tragedy. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
Hopefully this bill will pass and no one else will have to live such an awful ordeal at the hands of a careless contractor.
Sincerely,
RG

(I cannot fathom why he was found not guilty of reckless conduct.)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11033738/from/RL.3/

[CraigJosph]

Originally Posted by NHKathy

CraigJosph: I'm not a resident of New Hampshire (family owns a home there though), if I were -I'd be e-mailing the polititians. This bill has got to pass!...
--Kathy

Kathy, we agree with you! Besides posting on message boards we have a number of other iniatives ongoing to make the state legislators aware of the importance of this bill.

What we are hoping for here is for concerned residents and taxpayers to also contact their representatives thru the www.amiliaslaw.org website.

Thanks for the feedback!

[CraigJosph]

Why Do We Need This Bill?
Today’s voluntary certification in New Hampshire does not protect you, since your builder and contractors have the option to use anyone they want to work on your gas system. They might believe a certain individual could do the work (i.e., putting pipes together) but this worker might not know the Code and proper procedures to ensure a safe system.

HB1711, Amilia's Law, will require mandatory training and licensing. You will know that licensed workers have been taught how to properly install or repair your gas system and make sure it is safe.

In New Hampshire, plumbers are required to be licensed to work with water and waste systems, but not with explosive gas fueled systems. Let' get the right training to those working with hazardous fuels.

Please see www.amiliaslaw.org for more information

thanks you, the Luhrmanns

contactus@amiliaslaw.org

[CraigJosph]

Good mtg in Concord today....but, they say email is not very effective with legislators...too much ... written letters the only way to go... so, for all that want to help, pls write a short note of support for Amilia's Law to:

Sen. Joseph Kenney
Legislative Office Building, Room 102
Concord, N.H. 03301

public hearing is Feb 9th 1pm...it would be great for Sen Kenney to open the mtg saying how many letters of support he received!

Thank you!

[NHKathy]

You can count me in, and I'll get my in-laws to also (if I see them soon).
--Kathy

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Incensed in this trade and a registered gas pipe fitter for over thirty years, my only thought is… What took so long??? In this state you need to be licensed to bend and twist some ones hair, but you don’t need to be licensed or even regulated to blow their house up, kill everyone in a half a mile or asphyxiate the whole family including the dog.

The only reason I included the “dog” is the state seem more concerned about animal welfare than people. Maybe that will make them think if I use the “animal” card…

[CraigJosph]

One expected opposing voice will be from some of the large propane and gas equipment installers, they already extensively train their people, most using nationally recognized training and certification programs... and for them, it's a competitive advantage...they are able to say: "our people are trained, the other guys are not!". State mandated licensing would level the playing field, everyone licensed in the trade would have comprehensive training.

When you realize the electricians, plumbers, and even manicurists are licensed in NH, you have to ask why not gas fitters, working with dangerous fuels?...is it just that they have a stronger lobby, to maintain their status quo? ...and for their competitive advantage the NH public is at risk? ...because, today, the untrained guys are out there working!

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Do I write to Senator Kenney or my local representative in Hollis?

[fatlazyless]

How much for a flaring tool at Wal-Mart? Methinks I'll spend the rest of the week down in the crawl space, crawling around, and redoing all the old flared connections, just to be safe. How much for a leak detector alarm at Wal-Mart? At $4.99/gallon for liquid propane delivered, the stuff is way too expensive to let it leak out at the fittings, anyway!

[CraigJosph]

Rattlesnake Gal Do I write to Senator Kenney or my local representative in Hollis?

The committee reviewing the bill is the Executive Departments and Administration Committee..here's their link:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/b...xtcommcode=H07

the chairperson Peter Bergin is the best choice, unless you recognize one of your local legislators on the committee and would prefer your own rep... thanks... letters are best...

Peter F. Bergin
PO Box 130 District:
Amherst, NH 03031-0130

thanks, Craig

[CraigJosph]

Answer: Seems like most all jobs except those working with gas fuels!!

wierd, it makes you wonder.

Here's the NH state link on 'regulated and licensed' job categories:

http://www.nhes.state.nh.us/elmi/lic...occ_index.html

[UncleCarl]

Amazing, how could NH get in the position of requiring registration for auctioneers, manicurists and shampoo assitants (among others); but there is no requirement for a plumber/fitter to pipe up my gas furnace?

Quite strange and needs to change.

[CraigJosph]

Thursday, February 9, 1st public hearing in the Legislation Office Building, across from the Statehouse, on State St. 1pm..

[SAMIAM]

Best wishes to the Luhrmann's today,as they seek to have HB 1711 "Amilia's Law" passed.They have every right to be angry and bitter but have chosen to try and save others from the horror that they experienced.
I would not want to be a legislator who voted against this law should another tragedy occur.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I just saw your story on WMUR. Definitely a tear in my eye. You certainly have my support.

[mcdude]

Article in Concord Monitor
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...602100364/1031

[CraigJosph]

Next Step subcommittee mtg, Thursday 16, to address requests to modify the current proposal.

Great turn-out and interest in the bill, group had to move to House Chamber to accomodate. Most all speakers were in favor of licensing requirements. A large group of hearth/fireplace installers, that spoke of significant training and certification, while in favor of mandatory licensing, critically require changes in the proposed bill. To install, adjust, and vent their gas fireplace products, they would be required to become gas fitters. The prefer to have gas fitters hook up the appliances (fireplaces) and then they take it from there: adjusting performance and venting. They request that the bill consider seperation of the roles; they don't want to become gas fitters and they doubt that gas fitters want to vent fireplaces. Some of them proposed that the currrent voluentary law covering heating systems, simply be switched to mandatory (licensing); apparently that addresses their concerns and would separate roles and licenses and they said that would be a better way to go than using the proposed bill..... again, they support licensing, if specified properly.

I believe that group strongly influenced the written votes, which, I think were 11 in favor and 18 against. Since most speakers against wanted wording changes...and there's not a way for voting for the bill, but with changes...they must have voted against.

However, even with bill modifications to address the hearth industry, I believe we still have an up hill battle and opposition for any licensing.

[CraigJosph]

moving forward... now facing full House vote on March 7. Pls contact you legislators in support of HB1711...lots of good work done, but comes down to this key vote!

thank you,
the Luhrmanns

[CraigJosph]

The bill is scheduled for a floor debate and vote in the House on March 8; time is not specificed...

The following open letter was sent to all legislator email addresses from the NH gov't website:

Dear New Hampshire Legislator March 02, 2006

We're writing you in support of Amilia's Law, HB1711. Amilia Luhrmann, our beautiful five year old daughter was killed when our Moultonborough lakehouse exploded due to an open gas line in the basement of the house. The gas line was cut and left open by a carpenter hired by our contractor, who was repairing the kitchen cabinets on both sides of a gas stove. He cut the line and either he or the contractor later pushed the stove back in place, leaving the line open. The contractor should not have assigned that worker to disconnect or work with the gas stove; the worker should not have accepted the job, he was not properly trained to safely work with gas appliances. This was a second kitchen in a home that we continued to heat and use for weekends in the winter and early spring of 2003. We had no warning not to use the house nor the gas clothes dryer.

Only those with adequate training should be permitted to work in our homes. Since many of us use contractors or builders, who hire subcontractors, we need to ensure that it's against the law for unlicensed people to work on our gas heating systems or appliances. We can't always directly control who is employed by others to work in our homes or buildings. The State must ensure the safety of its population and make it illegal for untrained people to be employed to work with explosive fuel gases.

Opponents of this bill say this law would not have prevented our daughter's death. Of course, we'll never know. During the initial full committee review, Ted Evans, of the Plumbers Board, gave his opinion as a tradesman, that the law would have prevented the death of Amilia. Our tragedy should not be the subject of the debate. Instead, what should be considered is that there will be other situations when someone will be deciding if they should have an unlicensed person work on a gas system. We believe, law abiding citizens will not assign and/or the unlicensed person will not accept work when it's illegal. Licensing laws are certainly deterrents in some situations. We don't know if it would have made a difference for Amilia. If you have any question as to whether lives will be saved with this law, ask a fireman.

The simple fact is that these fuels are too dangerous to allow untrained workers. New Hampshire licenses more than 135 professions. While improper work in some of those professions could cause pollution or health risks, in most cases danger would not be imminent. However, if licensing and training should ever be mandated by the State, it is critical for those working with explosive fuel gases.

Please support Amilia's Law. For more information, please go to www.amiliaslaw.org

Sincerely,

Craig & Michelle Luhrmann - Carl & Margot Luhrmann Grandparents)
26 Loeffler Lane, Medfield, MA 02052 - 59 Marblehead Rd, Windham, NH
207 Hanson Dr., Moultonborough, NH - 207 Hanson Dr. Moultonborough,NH

[ITD]

Craig,

Thanks for your efforts in this matter, I hope the law passes. Seems to me there was another gas explosion in Moultonboro within weeks of the tragedy at your house, I wonder if that accident was due to similar negligence. You're right in stating gas should be dealt with only by licensed professionals. Something like this should never happen again. Good luck and sorry for your loss.

[Woodsy]

Looks like it sailed thru the House of Reps...

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/7853147/detail.html

Good Job!

my sincerest condolences on your loss....

Woodsy

[Pepper]

Wonderful news, and a true testament to the strength of that family as they persevered in the face of such sorrow.

My deepest condolences as well on their loss.

[CHSLTD]

I was glad to see your hard work and efforts pay off...

[Rayhunt]

Actually it was a carpenter that cut the pipe and did not inform anyone ..
It can and will happen again. Im a licenced master plumber in MA and NH.
Great idea that anyone installing or maintaining gas systems be licenced.
But the fact that realy amazes me is that homowners are still allowed to work on this equipment by themselves with no training !!!

[CraigJosph]

The point of the law is that it would be illegal for untrained unlicensed worker to touch, in any way modify, install, etc. fuel gas systems, connections to appliances, etc. Ted Evans, former pres of Plumbers Board, and licensed master plumber, gave his opinion that it quickly becomes known in the trades about what type of work requires a license... and that, related to our situation, (Ted's opinion), if 1711 became a law, carpenters or others unlicensed would tell the builders/contractors asking them to do gas work: "no, I'm not going to touch it, you have to be licensed...I'm not going to take responsibility, etc.".. that's the intent. People will always make mistakes, some incompetent people will always try work they shouldn't, work will be poorly supervised/checked...but, law abiding people will turn the work down....that's the goal.

[Parker Island Fun]

Even in states like Mass, that require testing gas leaks happen. a piece of paper will not protect you from mistakes. You must hire quality experienced folks not just those who have book skills. Think about all the handymen (and women) who will be excluded from their jobs. Small business folks have a hard enough time competing against the big gas companies. I would rather depend on years of hands on expertise then a certificate

[ITD]

I'm not one for more laws but this one just seems to make sense. Untrained handymen or carpenters are just the ones who should not be working on these systems. Trained ones should get licensed. When you pay someone to do work on your home you should be able to assume they know what they are doing and if they need to be licensed that they are licensed. ( Of course you should always ask too.) There are just too many things that can go wrong with a fuel like propane.

[Airwaves]

I will be the first to admit, I have not read the law. However I do have some experience with this:

Parker Island Fun wrote, in part:
Even in states like Mass, that require testing gas leaks happen. a piece of paper will not protect you from mistakes.

As a teenager I worked as a gas fitter's helper and a plumber's helper in Mass. We needed a licensed plumber and licensed gas fitter on the job and doing the work. After the job was finished and we conducted our own pressure test, the town then sent their inspector out to examine not only the job, but also the test we conducted! Our testing equipment could not be removed until the inspector signed off.

Yes, leaks happen, but when personnel are qualified, licensed, and the town inspector follows up, problems are less likely. IMHO

[jrc]

It's hard to argue against this law, but don't think it will be painless. Say you go to Sears and by a new gas dryer. The Sears truck shows up at your house a few days later but they can't remove your old dryer. You have to call a licensed gas fitter to disconnect it. After the gas fitter leaves, Sears returns, takes the old dryer away, and places the new dryer. But they can't hook up the new dryer, so call the gas fitter back.
I guess if you're reasonably handy you could do these things yourself, but that kind of defeats the purpose of the law. Maybe you should get an electric dryer

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Parker Island Fun

Even in states like Mass, that require testing gas leaks happen. a piece of paper will not protect you from mistakes. You must hire quality experienced folks not just those who have book skills. Think about all the handymen (and women) who will be excluded from their jobs. Small business folks have a hard enough time competing against the big gas companies. I would rather depend on years of hands on expertise then a certificate

If they are experienced and want to continue working on gas lines they can get licensed...Simple as that. This law makes sense. Period. Gas is dangerous, take it from one who had a propane furnace flash back in my face once, burning me from the waste up. Luckily I was not seriously hurt but it certainly opens your eyes as to how dangerous it can be working with gas.

Very tragic! My heart goes out to Amilia's family.

[CraigJosph]

HB1711 was reviewed by Sen Kenney's ED&A committee and was approved to move forward 5-0. Full senate vote is on Thursday April 20. While there is broad support, there is also some discussion about amendments which could derail the bill. Supporters are trying to keep the bill focused.

Addressing prior post, a piece of paper vs years of hands on experience. Often some will say they have the experience and then they get in over their heads, or just don't know the add'l safety precautions. We can always press for references, trying to determine experience, but in many cases, there are subcontractors brought onto the site when you're not around.. in all cases, that piece of paper, the license and the required training and tests provides a known standard of proven skills...not a subjective... "I can do it/done it before" statement.

Also, about Sears dropping off the appliance...usually the drop-off team includes the installer... I would think Sears would use only licensed installers...they do in MA. And, while many in the Senate and House are not happy about it, the bill does provide an exclusion for the homeowner...to do his own gas work in his primary (single family detached) residence; any work must conform to plumbing/fire codes. Some are worried that most people resell homes within 5 years...others could buy problems... I think it's certain the law will go for voting with the homeowner exclusion in it.

background and status: www.amiliaslaw.org

[CraigJosph]

Great day at the State House, overwhelming support...only opposing vote cast by Sen Boyce (Alton)...who also was the only opposing vote against all the school kids that where at the SH for their Pumpkin Bill, making the pumpkin the state fruit!

Govenor expected to sign Amilia's Law in a few weeks.

thank you for all the support!

the Luhrmanns

[Silver Duck]

No, thank you! Out of the tragedy, you've brought about something that will make other children a bit safer. I sincerely admire your accomplishment!

Silver Duck

[mcdude]

It is so nice to be able to read something on here where people aren't ARGUING with each other!! ...so here you go!

CONCORD, N.H. -- Gov. John Lynch signed into law stricter standards covering propane and natural gas handlers Wednesday -- a law named after a 5-year-old Massachusetts girl who died in a propane explosion at her parents' summer home.

Here's the link........
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...97/detail.html

Many thanks to the Luhrmanns for their efforts.

[Windrider]

This is a great thing rising out of a tragedy that is difficult to contemplate. One has to wonder what Senator Boyce was thinking when he voted in opposition....or was he??

[SAMIAM]

Congratulations on a job well done.Some day a life will be saved because of your efforts and your little angel will be smiling.
Love and best wishes from all of us in Moultonborough.We're proud to have helped you.

[Winni]

Originally Posted by mcdude

It is so nice to be able to read something on here where people aren't ARGUING with each other!! ...so here you go!



Here's the link........
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...97/detail.html

Many thanks to the Luhrmanns for their efforts.

I SO very much agree with you, mcdude! I'm exhausted with all that's been going on in these forums lately and giving it up! See also the thread about Pepper losing her hair; you will find solace there as well!

[Sculpin]

1) The accident and tradegy was a terrible thing, I as anyone offer all my condolences.

2) Requiring system installers to be licensed is a good thing, it will make the homes in NH safer in general.

3) Requiring system installers to be licensed, would not have prevented this particular accident, nor many of the others mentioned in the plea to get this done. Accidents will still happen, General contractors will still cut lines and leave them open. But the new difference is when someone unlicensed touches a gas line--now you have a reason to sue them.

4) What should happen is that it should be made illegal for home/propertyowners to "turn on" the gas supply to their homes. This should only be done by a trained professional who know how to do a complete gas system check each and every time a system gets reactivated.

5) I am not trying to be critical, just pointing out facts.... Personally, I am a 20 year licensed gas fitter here in Mass, everything I do here has to be inspected before it goes live for the first time. However, none of that prevents some idiot from altering my work after i have left the home. In the case in moultonboro nh, it was a construction accident, not a gas company accident. The industry has taken a bad and undeserved punch on the chin for this one.

[CraigJosph]

Propane and other fuel gas is safe when those working with it know what they are doing. The primary point of the law, is to restrict those working on it (for pay), to those that are trained. The contractor should not have asked the carpenter to move/disconnect the stove, the carpenter should not have accepted; he didn't know what he was doing. The purpose of the new law is to discourage that from happening again. And, if we didn't believe it could prevent at least one unskilled person from accepting a task to work with gas, we wouldn't have put ourselves through it. Many trades people we talked with agree; most unlicensed workers would turn down the task.

In our case, concerning turning the gas on; I personally had no idea the gas system had been altered. The 'system' was limited to a gas stove in the basement and a clothes dryer on the main level; house was continuously heated, by an oil fueled system. What I did know was: 1. that the stove was tested and stated as functioning, prior to any cabinet work, and 2. that a carpenter repaired the kitchen cabinets. We didn't use the basement rooms during several visits. When the clothes didn't dry in the gas fueled clothes dryer, the only thought was about an earlier conversation about a recent propane fuel bill, and that perhaps the propane company left the valve closed after the refill.

The carpenter should not have accepted the task, if he knew what he was doing (with proper training; e.g. as required by licensing); he would have:
- sealed any openings prior to leaving the premises
- notified the homeowners, personally
- taged and locked-out the fuel source

As unskilled, at least, his work should have been supervised and checked by the contractor.

People can already sue others for any improper work done (of any type) or damages, without this law. No bearing whatsoever on civil matters. The purpose of the law, is to discouage the unskilled from doing gas work and allow for criminal penalties. Today, anyone off the street can be hired to work with gas, cut gas lines; it won't be legal in 2007.