Should we be concerned using the WOW trail in downtown

[WinnisquamZ]

This morning, during my trip to the lumber yard downtown Laconia I viewed many people “lounging” along the WOW trail just having a smoke and relaxing behind Pitman’s. Having pushed the grandchildren along this route and seen many individuals walking by themselves, would be very hesitant to walk that area again after seeing this


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[HellRaZoR004]

Is this serious? You’re concerned about people relaxing and having a smoke?

[WinnisquamZ]

About 15 gathered along a public trail blocking the area. Yes


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[Mr. V]

Were they robbing people?

Were they shooting up heroin?

If not, why even mention it?

[thinkxingu]

Today's "smoking" is marijuana rather than yesteryear's, which is tobacco. That being my interpretation, I'm not confident dope smokers have the initiative to do much more than throw deuces and eat Cheetos.

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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Today's "smoking" is marijuana rather than yesteryear's, which is tobacco. That being my interpretation, I'm not confident dope smokers have the initiative to do much more than throw deuces and eat Cheetos.

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. I also don’t think that many people would be smoking pot outside near the WOW trail so close to Laconia Police Headquarters


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[Major]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

This morning, during my trip to the lumber yard downtown Laconia I viewed many people “lounging” along the WOW trail just having a smoke and relaxing behind Pitman’s. Having pushed the grandchildren along this route and seen many individuals walking by themselves, would be very hesitant to walk that area again after seeing this


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There's a homeless café right next to Pitman's. You probably saw people going into and out of the café.

Make no mistake though, the WOW trail is an avenue of criminal activity. The noted incidents of the LPD prove this. To WinnisquamZ's point, I have noticed a lot of young men, seemingly homeless (with larger-sized backpacks) walking along the trail, especially between Lakeport and Fair Street.

[Mr. V]

For those who fear walking this trail, or who are otherwise concerned about their safety: there is a simple solution: carry a gun.

I have a CWP and carry concealed; open carry is always an option.

"Since 22 February 2017, New Hampshire is a constitutional carry state, requiring no license to open carry or concealed carry a firearm in public. ... New Hampshire has no laws restricting the age at which a person may possess and carry firearms."

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

For those who fear walking this trail, or who are otherwise concerned about their safety: there is a simple solution: carry a gun.

I have a CWP and carry concealed; open carry is always an option.

"Since 22 February 2017, New Hampshire is a constitutional carry state, requiring no license to open carry or concealed carry a firearm in public. ... New Hampshire has no laws restricting the age at which a person may possess and carry firearms."

It certainly would NOT make MY walk or jog down the trail feel safer if everyone was carrying a gun. If anything it would make me stay far away!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

For those who fear walking this trail, or who are otherwise concerned about their safety: there is a simple solution: carry a gun.



I have a CWP and carry concealed; open carry is always an option.



"Since 22 February 2017, New Hampshire is a constitutional carry state, requiring no license to open carry or concealed carry a firearm in public. ... New Hampshire has no laws restricting the age at which a person may possess and carry firearms."

I am certainly pro gun but I think walking jogging or biking on the WOW Trail with a hand gun kind of takes the enjoyment out of it.

I have seen several people post that they say the trail is unsafe but I have jogged the trail many many times and have never had an issue. I have occasionally seen some beer cans along the trail but all in all they keep it pretty clean.


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[thinkxingu]

https://youtu.be/SwEyBItsXkw

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Were they robbing people?

Were they shooting up heroin?

If not, why even mention it?

Because Robert Downey Sr. introduced his son to marijuana when Jr. was eight years old?

"The wife has moved out, the kid's gone...and there I am, in my own kitchen, cooking up some rock..."
—Robert Downey Jr.

[Red apple]

We have been using the WOW trail for years from Lakeport to Laconia and then to Belmont once in a while. Well have saw some questionable people have never had any issues while alone or with others. Questionable people are what you make of them and can be anywhere you go. As far as as carrying a gun while on the trail that's up to you.. Do you carry everywhere you go? Then sure if it makes you feel comfortable and safe then go ahead..

[belawinn]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I am certainly pro gun but I think walking jogging or biking on the WOW Trail with a hand gun kind of takes the enjoyment out of it.

I have seen several people post that they say the trail is unsafe but I have jogged the trail many many times and have never had an issue. I have occasionally seen some beer cans along the trail but all in all they keep it pretty clean.


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Have also walked and jogged the trail quite a bit, every weekend day all summer for 5 summers. Woman, alone. Have seen some characters and litter. Seems people hang in the woods near opechee shoreline. Have also seen LPD shooing off a guy in a tent. No one has ever bothered me. Like anyplace else be aware and keep your eyes open. Keep one ear without ear bud. Couple times someone caught me by surprise or was weird but just kept moving. Mostly everyone says good morning back.


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[Andromeda321]

Originally Posted by belawinn

Have also walked and jogged the trail quite a bit, every weekend day all summer for 5 summers. Woman, alone. Have seen some characters and litter. Seems people hang in the woods near opechee shoreline. Have also seen LPD shooing off a guy in a tent. No one has ever bothered me. Like anyplace else be aware and keep your eyes open. Keep one ear without ear bud. Couple times someone caught me by surprise or was weird but just kept moving. Mostly everyone says good morning back.


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Yes. I am also a woman and have traveled to 60-odd countries on six continents, most of them alone, and many were WAY less safe than New Hampshire. Never had any trouble, and never carried a weapon, just relied on common sense.

It must be exhausting to go through life always afraid.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Andromeda321

It must be exhausting to go through life always afraid.

So true!!!

[Major]

I guess all of the Forum tough guys can make light of significant criminal activity on the WOW trail. As stated previously, the WOW Trail is an avenue of egress for criminals. The City has published the number of incidents (calls) for the WOW Trail, something like 150 incidents over a six-year period. This number does not include the number of homeless people living in camps off of the WOW Trail that require evacuation from time-to-time. You may find this de minimus, but I find it very disturbing. I don't want to live in a community that tolerates or is immune to criminal behavior. I guess I can't be too surprised given the investment in Section 8 housing and in rehab centers.

Laconia is changing, and not for the better. A murder on Blueberry Lane (as a kid I knew to stay away from there so I guess it has always been a bad place) and Pleasant Street closed of to search for the murderer, who is still at large. Pleasant Street was a place where all of the rich folk lived. Not now, I guess.

If you spend any time downtown, you notice it, scraggly young men roaming around in backpacks. It is not a safe place.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I guess all of the Forum tough guys can make light of significant criminal activity on the WOW trail. As stated previously, the WOW Trail is an avenue of egress for criminals. The City has published the number of incidents (calls) for the WOW Trail, something like 150 incidents over a six-year period. This number does not include the number of homeless people living in camps off of the WOW Trail that require evacuation from time-to-time. You may find this de minimus, but I find it very disturbing. I don't want to live in a community that tolerates or is immune to criminal behavior. I guess I can't be too surprised given the investment in Section 8 housing and in rehab centers.



Laconia is changing, and not for the better. A murder on Blueberry Lane (as a kid I knew to stay away from there so I guess it has always been a bad place) and Pleasant Street closed of to search for the murderer, who is still at large. Pleasant Street was a place where all of the rich folk lived. Not now, I guess.



If you spend any time downtown, you notice it, scraggly young men roaming around in backpacks. It is not a safe place.

For real? Mont Vernon had one of the most grisly murders in the last decade--terrible things happen everywhere.

And 150 incidents in 6 years? That's, like, 2 per month, with absolutely no info on what an "incident" is. We had a dozen "incidents" in my high school TODAY.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

For real? Mont Vernon had one of the most grisly murders in the last decade--terrible things happen everywhere.

And 150 incidents in 6 years? That's, like, 2 per month, with absolutely no info on what an "incident" is. We had a dozen "incidents" in my high school TODAY.

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I would agree, 150 incidents in 6 years is not an unusually large number.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Major

I guess all of the Forum tough guys can make light of significant criminal activity on the WOW trail.

WE GET IT! You are one of those self-entitled NIMBY people that will go to great lengths to make sure this does not happen on State owned property that is near your gated community.

Just contact your State Reps and give it a rest already. This venue can not grant you your request.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

I guess all of the Forum tough guys can make light of significant criminal activity on the WOW trail. As stated previously, the WOW Trail is an avenue of egress for criminals. The City has published the number of incidents (calls) for the WOW Trail, something like 150 incidents over a six-year period. This number does not include the number of homeless people living in camps off of the WOW Trail that require evacuation from time-to-time. You may find this de minimus, but I find it very disturbing. I don't want to live in a community that tolerates or is immune to criminal behavior. I guess I can't be too surprised given the investment in Section 8 housing and in rehab centers.

Laconia is changing, and not for the better. A murder on Blueberry Lane (as a kid I knew to stay away from there so I guess it has always been a bad place) and Pleasant Street closed of to search for the murderer, who is still at large. Pleasant Street was a place where all of the rich folk lived. Not now, I guess.

If you spend any time downtown, you notice it, scraggly young men roaming around in backpacks. It is not a safe place.

Major: I have always disagreed with you on this issue. I own commercial property in downtown Laconia and also travel the WOW trail and conditions have definitely improved over the past few years.

It is my contention that the crime rate regarding the trail is greatly exaggerated and has nothing at all to do with the atual trail itself.

Similar incidents existed along the rail tracks long before the trail existed. As with any "city" it is always more dangerous to travel alone at night and wee hours of the morning along any path. Be vigilant, travel during the day and with a partner if possible and all should be fine.

[Trail Goer]

Where's Paul Blart when you need him?

[Major]

My objection to the WOW trail has very little to do with living in Long Bay. I think it's a waste of taxpayer money. Instead of looking for ways to reduce our real estate taxes, the City of Laconia is hell bent on ways to increase our taxes. Just look at the Colonial Theater. What initially was represented as a 2-3 Million Dollar project is now 17 Million Dollars. Like the Colonial Theater, the WOW trail is a feel-good project that will ultimately contribute very little to making Laconia better.

Unfortunately, the die has been cast. There is very little that can be done to undo the emphasis on Section 8 housing and drub rehab facilities.

Outdoorsman made me laugh, though. That's the first time I've ever been called "Entitled!" Those who know me would find that very funny.

[WINNI BOB]

HI;

I was warned by one of my friends on the Forum that my WEB CAM was showing reflections off the windows on my porch of my family when they accessed the cam at night. Well, I have now changed the settings on the NEST CAM APP, so that the cam, automatically, will turn on at 6:00 am and turn off at dusk 7:00 pm. No more reflections.
Also, I have turned off the microphone. So, all is private....everyone happy??? Hope so.

WINNI BOB

[joey2665]

Thanks Winni Bob I am really enjoying your web cam. I appreciate it very much

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by WINNI BOB

HI;

I was warned by one of my friends on the Forum that my WEB CAM was showing reflections off the windows on my porch of my family when they accessed the cam at night. Well, I have now changed the settings on the NEST CAM APP, so that the cam, automatically, will turn on at 6:00 am and turn off at dusk 7:00 pm. No more reflections.
Also, I have turned off the microphone. So, all is private....everyone happy??? Hope so.

WINNI BOB

This may have been posted in response to the wrong thread....

The person that gripes about everything WOW related has (yet to) complain about cams on the lake.

Just a head up as you may want to post this in a different thread.

[WINNI BOB]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Thanks Winni Bob I am really enjoying your web cam. I appreciate it very much

Thank you for the comment

WINNI BOB

[Major]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

This may have been posted in response to the wrong thread....

The person that gripes about everything WOW related has (yet to) complain about cams on the lake.

Just a head up as you may want to post this in a different thread.

I’m just doing God’s work! I don’t care about webcams.



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[TiltonBB]

Police Chief Matt Canfield, who jogs on the public trail a few times a week, says it is a safe place to walk, run and ride and wants to counter any perceptions to the contrary.


https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Police Chief Matt Canfield, who jogs on the public trail a few times a week, says it is a safe place to walk, run and ride and wants to counter any perceptions to the contrary.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/

That confirms what I have experienced. Thank you. I think most try to use the crime angle to discourage the extension of the trail to the next phase.


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[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by joey2665

That confirms what I have experienced. Thank you. I think most try to use the crime angle to discourage the extension of the trail to the next phase.

You nailed it

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

You nailed it

It’s a long exhaustive argument but am in favor of the trail and believe it will be well used and a draw to the area. They do need to get SD/LB on board by designing an the fencing required along the tracks that looks nice and allows them access their beaches, cart paths and the boat club.


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[upthesaukee]

See the article from today's LDS. More the chief's comment on the safety of the trail.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...96d585017.html

Dave

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by Major

I’m just doing God’s work! I don’t care about webcams.



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Fearmongering is God's work?



That's amazing.

[Major]

"Police will also put portable cameras at key spots on the trail to further enhance security.

Volunteer “ambassadors” also frequent the trails to answer questions or report any problems."

Facts are facts. 150+ incidents over 6 years. If it's so safe, why do we need to put portable cameras at key spots and volunteer "ambassadors?"

The truth is that it is an avenue of egress for criminals. Obviously, it is safer during the day than at night.

Read the police log for Laconia. It is a much different place. On average, there's 20-30 individuals ("no known address") identified in the paper for some type of drug infraction. These people roam the streets of downtown, and the WOW trail. My wife has had two separate incidents, in broad daylight, where she thought one of these creeps was following her. One in front of Genesis and one in front of the Laconia Spa. You can ignore the issue all you want, but the fact is that there are a lot of unsavory people who inhabit downtown Laconia.

Regarding the police chief's comments, what is he supposed to say? The WOW trail is riddled with criminals? Of course not. What they have done -- cameras and "ambassadors" -- speaks volumes. The former police chief, whom I know pretty well, and have discussed this issue with, shared with me the LPD's real position on the WOW trail. They wish it didn't exist. It makes policing more difficult. He described it as an avenue of egress for criminals who commit crimes in downtown Laconia. He also described it as an attractive nuisance for homeless people who put up shelters off the trail.

And finally, Poor Richard, it's called sarcasm. Get a clue.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

"Police will also put portable cameras at key spots on the trail to further enhance security.

Volunteer “ambassadors” also frequent the trails to answer questions or report any problems."

Facts are facts. 150+ incidents over 6 years. If it's so safe, why do we need to put portable cameras at key spots and volunteer "ambassadors?"

The truth is that it is an avenue of egress for criminals. Obviously, it is safer during the day than at night.

Read the police log for Laconia. It is a much different place. On average, there's 20-30 individuals ("no known address") identified in the paper for some type of drug infraction. These people roam the streets of downtown, and the WOW trail. My wife has had two separate incidents, in broad daylight, where she thought one of these creeps was following her. One in front of Genesis and one in front of the Laconia Spa. You can ignore the issue all you want, but the fact is that there are a lot of unsavory people who inhabit downtown Laconia.

Regarding the police chief's comments, what is he supposed to say? The WOW trail is riddled with criminals? Of course not. What they have done -- cameras and "ambassadors" -- speaks volumes. The former police chief, whom I know pretty well, and have discussed this issue with, shared with me the LPD's real position on the WOW trail. They wish it didn't exist. It makes policing more difficult. He described it as an avenue of egress for criminals who commit crimes in downtown Laconia. He also described it as an attractive nuisance for homeless people who put up shelters off the trail.

And finally, Poor Richard, it's called sarcasm. Get a clue.

Major, you're a little late.

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[Major]

I missed it or most likely was not included. God was probably upset with me for becoming an attorney the previous year!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Major

"Police will also put portable cameras at key spots on the trail to further enhance security.

Volunteer “ambassadors” also frequent the trails to answer questions or report any problems."

Facts are facts. 150+ incidents over 6 years. If it's so safe, why do we need to put portable cameras at key spots and volunteer "ambassadors?"

The truth is that it is an avenue of egress for criminals. Obviously, it is safer during the day than at night.

Read the police log for Laconia. It is a much different place. On average, there's 20-30 individuals ("no known address") identified in the paper for some type of drug infraction. These people roam the streets of downtown, and the WOW trail. My wife has had two separate incidents, in broad daylight, where she thought one of these creeps was following her. One in front of Genesis and one in front of the Laconia Spa. You can ignore the issue all you want, but the fact is that there are a lot of unsavory people who inhabit downtown Laconia.

Regarding the police chief's comments, what is he supposed to say? The WOW trail is riddled with criminals? Of course not. What they have done -- cameras and "ambassadors" -- speaks volumes. The former police chief, whom I know pretty well, and have discussed this issue with, shared with me the LPD's real position on the WOW trail. They wish it didn't exist. It makes policing more difficult. He described it as an avenue of egress for criminals who commit crimes in downtown Laconia. He also described it as an attractive nuisance for homeless people who put up shelters off the trail.

And finally, Poor Richard, it's called sarcasm. Get a clue.

From the same article, third paragraph:

Police Chief Matt Canfield , who jogs on the public trail a few times a week, says it is a safe place to walk, run and ride and wants to counter any perceptions to the contrary.

"There might be a perception of crime or danger on the WOW Trail, but it's really non-existent", he said. It's no more dangerous than walking anywhere else on any of the streets."

This precedes the sentence about putting out portable cameras and the sentence about ambassadors.

By the way, the article was about to new bikes for the department to use on patrol, not just for the WOW Trail but also in the Weirs and other areas of the city.

Dave

[Major]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

From the same article, third paragraph:

Police Chief Matt Canfield , who jogs on the public trail a few times a week, says it is a safe place to walk, run and ride and wants to counter any perceptions to the contrary.

"There might be a perception of crime or danger on the WOW Trail, but it's really non-existent", he said. It's no more dangerous than walking anywhere else on any of the streets."

This precedes the sentence about putting out portable cameras and the sentence about ambassadors.

By the way, the article was about to new bikes for the department to use on patrol, not just for the WOW Trail but also in the Weirs and other areas of the city.

Dave

My point exactly. I realize the present Chief, in the previous sentence, was extolling the safeness of the WOW Trail. However, if it is so safe, and the perception is wrong, and crime and danger are non-existent, then why place cameras or employ "ambassadors." You would think that none of these added safety measures are necessary. I highly doubt that they are being implemented solely to address the incorrect perception.

And just because the Chief says it, doesn't make it true. There is a lot of pressure to support the WOW trail. Also, when he says crime or danger is non-existent, do you believe him? The police log for Laconia is published in the Laconia Daily Sun about twice a week. Downtown Laconia doesn't appear to be too safe or free from crime to me. I think he's diminishing the crime issues in downtown Laconia. They appear to be significant.

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by Major

And finally, Poor Richard, it's called sarcasm. Get a clue.

It's called fearmongering. Get a dictionary.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

It's called fearmongering. Get a dictionary.

If you consider that fearmongering, you must be the eggshell cranium of scaredy-cats. I was only kidding when I said I was doing God's work. I am passionate about Laconia. I grew up here. I've seen the changes, and what the investment of Section 8 housing and drug rehab centers has wrought. Downtown Laconia has a real crime issue. You can choose to ignore or diminish it, but it's real.

[Poor Richard]

I consider many of your statements in this thread as definition of fearmongering.

I get that you have concerns about safety however the only things cited that I've seen are: people in a group smoking, people wearing backpacks and a few stoners getting busted. None of those equates to a compromise in safety, IMO.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

I consider many of your statements in this thread as definition of fearmongering.

I get that you have concerns about safety however the only things cited that I've seen are: people in a group smoking, people wearing backpacks and a few stoners getting busted. None of those equates to a compromise in safety, IMO.

I disagree. Nothing in my posts is made up or exaggerated. Read the police logs. It's not stoners. It's heroin and fentanyl users/dealers getting busted. These are the people roaming the streets of Laconia.

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

I consider many of your statements in this thread as definition of fearmongering.

I get that you have concerns about safety however the only things cited that I've seen are: people in a group smoking, people wearing backpacks and a few stoners getting busted. None of those equates to a compromise in safety, IMO.

No fear mongering here just a purely negative based opinion. I use to use the WOW trail as I liked to ride my bike on it. From a cost standpoint I think it was projected in 2010 to cost 7Million. Personally I think that money could have been better allocated elsewhere. --- someone correct me if that $ figure is wrong.

To me, it seemed like a lot of money and a lot of logistics/ land arguments for something pretty simple. Where else that money could have been better allocated is a matter of opinion of what I think is more important than what someone else does so that's irrelevant.

But after living in the neighborhood for the past 8 years I have formed the opinion that Laconia is a much much different "lakes region town" than Meredith, Center Harbor, Sanbornton, Gilford, Moultonborough, Etc. I drive the scenic route through 5 of those towns and drive fast straight through one of them.

[Descant]

We forget sometimes how safe NH is compared to 49 other states. The result may be that any little incident appears as significant. We should all be pleased that a couple of portable cameras and some "ambassadors" are all that appears necessary to provide a good level of safety.

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by Major

I disagree. Nothing in my posts is made up or exaggerated. Read the police logs. It's not stoners. It's heroin and fentanyl users/dealers getting busted. These are the people roaming the streets of Laconia.

Even better. It's not stoners, it's people falling asleep.

My point is, you are stating there is safety issue on the trail then go on to name absolutely nothing that affects your safety. People different than you is your percieved safety concern.

Laconia doesn't have anything special going on that can't already be found in the public areas of Concord, Manchester, Nashua, Rochester, etc.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

I disagree. Nothing in my posts is made up or exaggerated. Read the police logs. It's not stoners. It's heroin and fentanyl users/dealers getting busted. These are the people roaming the streets of Laconia.

Sorry major I disagree. These individuals have been around long before the trail and really to don’t effect safety on the trail especially during daylight when it is really being used.


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[thinkxingu]

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! ZOMBIES THEY ARE A' COMIN'!!!

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[bruinsfan]

I avoid Laconia at all costs. Grown men riding BMX bikes is not normal. The zombies with missing teeth at street corners is not normal. It is a city that has more users and addicts than families walking with strollers and pets.

Justify whatever you want in your mind, you can't put lipstick on a pig. Sorry that my opinion doesn't jive with your utopian desires.

[Major]

Originally Posted by bruinsfan

It is a city that has more users and addicts than families walking with strollers and pets.

So true. I hardly ever see families walking about downtown Laconia. I definitely see more young men with backpacks, some with bikes and some without.

I am a realist. The demographics have definitely changed. Some of the men in this Forum may feel safe downtown and on the WOW trail, but I know one woman (my wife) who isn't. She isn't a shrinking violet either. She likes to workout, but will only go on the WOW trail with a friend. When a female has to walk downtown and on the WOW trail with a buddy, you know things aren't going in the right direction. She feels safer walking by herself in Boston.

I won't convince those in support of the WOW trail or who support the direction of the City of Laconia that things have changed for the worse. However, you cannot convince me that things haven't changed over the past five to ten years.

I apologize. I think this issue has been beaten to death.

[LongBay]

Originally Posted by Major

So true. I hardly ever see families walking about downtown Laconia. I definitely see more young men with backpacks, some with bikes and some without.....

Don't forget to include the young women too wearing pajamas and flip flops downtown in the dead of winter....

[LongBay]

Originally Posted by Major

....
I apologize. I think this issue has been beaten to death.

No need to apologize there are a lot of other Laconia taxpayers who would rather see their tax dollars go to making the city safer, improving the education system, properly maintaining existing infrastructure and providing core social services.

Oh and those WOW trail organizers, stop lying to everyone the project is not going to cost the Laconia tax payers a single penny. Why aren't they more transparent with their financials on how much money they raise actually goes into the building costs? I know one reason, donors would think twice if they knew how much of their money never makes its way to planning and construction. I won't bore everyone with all the other reasons ...you all either see nothing to WOW about or think it's going to jumpstart the Loconia local economy and solve world hunger.