New Hampshire State Ranking

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by tis

I can imagine! I would hate to be an accountant and try to explain to people who have no idea.

Seaplane Pilot, you are right, they try to program people (and have done a good job) to hate businesses. And of course they couldn't let the doctors, and lawyers and accountants etc. get away without an "income tax". It's fine if the other guy pays. I guess we pick and choose who pays. I just don't know where people would work if there weren't businesses though. Do you???

Swnoel, you are right. People demand more and more. Everybody has their favorite little pet project. It all adds up to a lot.

The mentality today is that business is evil, government is good. Government will pay for everything, so we don’t need private enterprise for anything (Right AOC??)

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

The mentality today is that business is evil, government is good. Government will pay for everything, so we don’t need private enterprise for anything (Right AOC??)

No, the mentality today is that corporations making billions off resources provided by the public should contribute to the system that allowed them to make billions. Amazon not paying taxes/getting tax refunds is a travesty.

The difficult line--at least to me--is between big business, which is continuing to blow apart the income gap and have too much political influence, and small business, which can/is being destroyed by the system.

(For the record, my major concern here--as a teacher--is wealth inequality which, if the system continues, will mean only the affluent having access to opportunities for improvement/education, etc.)

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

No, the mentality today is that corporations making billions off resources provided by the public should contribute to the system that allowed them to make billions. Amazon not paying taxes/getting tax refunds is a travesty.

The difficult line--at least to me--is between big business, which is continuing to blow apart the income gap and have too much political influence, and small business, which can/is being destroyed by the system.

(For the record, my major concern here--as a teacher--is wealth inequality which, if the system continues, will mean only the affluent having access to opportunities for improvement/education, etc.)

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I rest my case. No further questions your honor.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

(For the record, my major concern here--as a teacher--is wealth inequality which, if the system continues, will mean only the affluent having access to opportunities for improvement/education, etc.)

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That is the most absurd statement ever. This country has the most opportunities of any other nation on the face of this planet, the problem is lazy ass kids that won't do anything difficult or actually work for something. If teachers would stop indoctrinating their students with liberal philosophy and victimhood those up and coming generations would actually have a chance to be every bit as good as the previous ones.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

That is the most absurd statement ever. This country has the most opportunities of any other nation on the face of this planet, the problem is lazy ass kids that won't do anything difficult or actually work for something. If teachers would stop indoctrinating their students with liberal philosophy and victimhood those up and coming generations would actually have a chance to be every bit as good as the previous ones.

Yup--all the kids are lazy. It has nothing to do with the fact that there's been an exponential rise in the need for education--high school diplomas are no longer the minimum requirement to succeed in America--at the same time as tuitions have risen and salaries remained the same (with inflation, mostly dropped).

These are real problems on their way, but at least we can rely on people like you to name call rather than discuss. Bravo!

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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yup--all the kids are lazy. It has nothing to do with the fact that there's been an exponential rise in the need for education--high school diplomas are no longer the minimum requirement to succeed in America--at the same time as tuitions have risen and salaries remained the same (with inflation, mostly dropped).

These are real problems on their way, but at least we can rely on people like you to name call rather than discuss. Bravo!

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This is very inaccurate. This is a misnomer many try to pro-port. College educations are not necessary to make a good living.

High school diplomas are good for many high paying jobs, many union jobs such as truck driving, plumbers electricians and other trade jobs. These jobs have pay rates closer to 80-100 per hour with excellent benefits. There is a severe shortage of these trade skill labor type worker.

However they do require hard physical labor that this generation does not seem to embrace.

In reality these jobs have higher pay and better benefits than those with liberal arts degrees that cost over 100,000.00



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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by joey2665

This is very inaccurate. This is a misnomer many try to pro-port. College educations are not necessary to make a good living.

High school diplomas are good for many high paying jobs, many union jobs such as truck driving, plumbers electricians and other trade jobs. These jobs have pay rates closer to 80-100 per hour with excellent benefits. There is a severe shortage of these trade skill labor type worker.

However they do require hard physical labor that this generation does not seem to embrace.

In reality these jobs have higher pay and better benefits than those with liberal arts degrees that cost over 100,000.00



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I didn't say only college--even trade schools are becoming prohibitively expensive, as my nephew, who is an incredibly hard worker, has figured out. Even though he's willing to work for the dealership he's at, and even though they're willing to send him for some training, it's gonna take a long time to get the education he needs to make decent money.

My other nephew is currently pursuing an electrician's license, which also requires a lot of education and apprenticeship time, and is in a similar boat.

My father, with an 8th grade education, ran machines for 40 years. In his last ten, they wouldn't hire anyone without some credentials, most with college degrees.

There's a reason so many young people are living at home with their parents until much later, and it has nothing to do with laziness or choice. The cost of living--rent, food, etc.--has outgrown the access to well-paying jobs.

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[Woody38]

Sorry Joey
I am a resident of NH.
I have not seen any independent study showing that only 6% paid more.
We know the billionaires paid considerably less. Most I hear is that refunds are less than 2017.
I pay more if fed tax than the average income in most red states.

_______________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Woody38

Sorry Joey

I am a resident of NH.

I have not seen any independent study showing that only 6% paid more.

We know the billionaires paid considerably less. Most I hear is that refunds are less than 2017.

I pay more if fed tax than the average income in most red states.



_______________________________________



I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

Nothing to do with red or blue but about high state income and high property tax. I never said only 6% paid more


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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I didn't say only college--even trade schools are becoming prohibitively expensive, as my nephew, who is an incredibly hard worker, has figured out. Even though he's willing to work for the dealership he's at, and even though they're willing to send him for some training, it's gonna take a long time to get the education he needs to make decent money.

My other nephew is currently pursuing an electrician's license, which also requires a lot of education and apprenticeship time, and is in a similar boat.

My father, with an 8th grade education, ran machines for 40 years. In his last ten, they wouldn't hire anyone without some credentials, most with college degrees.

There's a reason so many young people are living at home with their parents until much later, and it has nothing to do with laziness or choice. The cost of living--rent, food, etc.--has outgrown the access to well-paying jobs.

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Sorry you did say high school in your post. Also again many return to live with their parents from college because they chosen to waste money and obtain a useless liberal arts diploma instead of focusing on a career track.


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[TiltonBB]

There are many ways to get ahead and college is not a necessity. In my 20's, 30's and 40's I worked at three jobs and bought real estate. If you talk to someone that works 35 hours per week now and tell them they should get a second job, they don't even know what you are talking about.

I had a friend who was a school teacher and a smoker and he was jealous of some things I owned. I suggested he quit smoking and get a full time job and it didn't go well..............

It is also a travesty that people like Liz Warren taught one class and made over $300, 000 per year. High salaries like that put college out or reach or result in large debt to those who do want to go. Tuition costs are out of control.

Many of today's young people make choices involving drugs, smoking, alcohol, tattoos, and other items that cost money and then can't figure out why they live paycheck to paycheck.

It's all about choices.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

There are many ways to get ahead and college is not a necessity. In my 20's, 30's and 40's I worked at three jobs and bought real estate. If you talk to someone that works 35 hours per week now and tell them they should get a second job, they don't even know what you are talking about.



I had a friend who was a school teacher and a smoker and he was jealous of some things I owned. I suggested he quit smoking and get a full time job and it didn't go well..............



It is also a travesty that people like Liz Warren taught one class and made over $300, 000 per year. High salaries like that put college out or reach or result in large debt to those who do want to go. Tuition costs are out of control.



Many of today's young people make choices involving drugs, smoking, alcohol, tattoos, and other items that cost money and then can't figure out why they live paycheck to paycheck.



It's all about choices.

That's my point, Tilton--the world you (and, for the most part, I) grew up in no longer exists. My students are only making a couple bucks more an hour than I was two decades ago, but the expenses--insurance, car maintenance, rent, etc.--have gone up way more than that.

But you're right--the cost of education also has to be examined. It's a two-sided problem, but neither will be fixed without honest discussion.

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[Woody38]

Joey, the statement about 6% was not your post but someone else.
Actually my fed tax is around double that income in most red states. Those are the states with most people earning what I call little income. Not that it is necessarily their own fault.

____________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

There are many ways to get ahead and college is not a necessity. In my 20's, 30's and 40's I worked at three jobs and bought real estate. If you talk to someone that works 35 hours per week now and tell them they should get a second job, they don't even know what you are talking about. I had a friend who was a school teacher and a smoker and he was jealous of some things I owned. I suggested he quit smoking and get a full time job and it didn't go well.............. It is also a travesty that people like Liz Warren taught one class and made over $300, 000 per year. High salaries like that put college out or reach or result in large debt to those who do want to go. Tuition costs are out of control. Many of today's young people make choices involving drugs, smoking, alcohol, tattoos, and other items that cost money and then can't figure out why they live paycheck to paycheck.

It's all about choices.

1) It's all about choices...was the title of a monthly newsletter I wrote for a club (regarding automobile safety).

2) Someone with tattoos has little room to complain about an income-gap.

3) Jerry Seinfeld discovers the value of visual arts while teaching High School:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdf_XdDwc-o

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

There are many ways to get ahead and college is not a necessity. In my 20's, 30's and 40's I worked at three jobs and bought real estate. If you talk to someone that works 35 hours per week now and tell them they should get a second job, they don't even know what you are talking about. I had a friend who was a school teacher and a smoker and he was jealous of some things I owned. I suggested he quit smoking and get a full time job and it didn't go well...It is also a travesty that people like Liz Warren taught one class and made over $300,000 per year. High salaries like that put college out or reach or result in large debt to those who do want to go. Tuition costs are out of control. Many of today's young people make choices involving drugs, smoking, alcohol, tattoos, and other items that cost money and then can't figure out why they live paycheck to paycheck. It's all about choices.

The former head of the university system in the same state retired with a pension of $10,000 per month!

To move up to higher income, consider a career in Politics.

Move laws to ban nice things and replace them with annoying things, but make sure The Electorate can "feel good" about you and your various bannings—like the ban on plastic straws.

But be sure to have previously invested in paper straw corporations, and sold "short" on plastic straws.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yup--all the kids are lazy. It has nothing to do with the fact that there's been an exponential rise in the need for education--high school diplomas are no longer the minimum requirement to succeed in America--at the same time as tuitions have risen and salaries remained the same (with inflation, mostly dropped).

These are real problems on their way, but at least we can rely on people like you to name call rather than discuss. Bravo!

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Really? Careful - you have no idea who you are saying that to. Guess if that were true I'd be some poor guy who would not amount to nothing other than a minimum wage job. Good thing I never listened to people like you. I'll even pile on just for fun, not only do I have nothing other than a high school education, yet have a professional job, but I managed to raise a family on a SINGLE income. The biggest misconception is you have to do XY and Z to be successful. No - you just have to be better than everyone else. What did I do that is so different, never believed anyone say I can't accomplish what I did, in fact I just used that as motivation to prove them all wrong.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Really? Careful - you have no idea who you are saying that to. Guess if that were true I'd be some poor guy who would not amount to nothing other than a minimum wage job. Good thing I never listened to people like you. I'll even pile on just for fun, not only do I have nothing other than a high school education, yet have a professional job, but I managed to raise a family on a SINGLE income. The biggest misconception is you have to do XY and Z to be successful. No - you just have to be better than everyone else. What did I do that is so different, never believed anyone say I can't accomplish what I did, in fact I just used that as motivation to prove them all wrong.

You're amazing. The problem is, your totally awesome, super duper, made-it-to-the-top-against-all-odds story doesn't apply to the majority--then or now. And I guarantee that, like most other people blinded by attribution bias, we'd find a set of unique circumstances to explain your success, just as my Dad's 40 years ago and mine 20--in worlds much, much different than today's.

Winter is coming...

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[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

You're amazing. The problem is, your totally awesome, super duper, made-it-to-the-top-against-all-odds story doesn't apply to the majority--then or now. And I guarantee that, like most other people blinded by attribution bias, we'd find a set of unique circumstances to explain your success, just as my Dad's 40 years ago and mine 20--in worlds much, much different than today's.

Winter is coming...

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Hate to break it to you but I'm not that old.... this can and does happen every day TODAY, not 20, 40 or 100 years ago.

"attribution bias"? What a bunch of nonsensical psycho-babble.

Furthermore I just roll my eyes at your entire response, know how many times I have heard that? Sorry can't help but shake my head at how outrageous, smug, repugnant and demeaning that entire statement is. In fact I would say you are guilty of manipulative Minimisation.

There is nothing super duper, amazing or totally awesome that I did. Anyone can do it, it is easy no and that's why you don't hear it often. If I had a degree would the path have been easier, sure, but then again, it's also no guarantee of success either which is a false narrative that is pushed constantly. Interestingly all to the benefit of higher education Colleges and Universities that are bastions of liberalism and interestingly flush with cash, and have the appearance of a sprawling luxury estate.

There was no "unique" set of circumstances that got me where I am today other than me and very careful decision making on my part, every decision is made with a end goal and purpose in mind. Did every decision that I made pan out, of course not, but I certainly didn't run into my "safe space" and cry room, hug a stuffed gumby and have a temper tantrum. No I looked, learned, and carried on.

Want to be successful? DUH! Hang around people that are successful. Learn from them, ask questions, figure out how they did it and duplicate it. One lesson I learned along the way is if you do what everyone else does you end up like everyone else. Want to be different, then take a different path, take calculated risks, be bold, make it happen, if you think success just "finds" you or somehow you are lucky that's total BS. Success comes to those who try and take on risk. If you fail, learn from your mistakes and try again. Rarely does anyone win playing defense. Words of wisdom from a friend of mine who is both an entrepreneur and a multi millionaire. Should I add that he too has zero college credits to his name. Now that is awesome! Of course to you that's evil but we all have our differences in opinions.

Want to be like everyone else, DUH! Go to your nearest college campus and be a self identified victim. Good luck with that as a career choice.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Hate to break it to you but I'm not that old.... this can and does happen every day TODAY, not 20, 40 or 100 years ago.

"attribution bias"? What a bunch of nonsensical psycho-babble.

Furthermore I just roll my eyes at your entire response, know how many times I have heard that? Sorry can't help but shake my head at how outrageous, smug, repugnant and demeaning that entire statement is. In fact I would say you are guilty of manipulative Minimisation.

There is nothing super duper, amazing or totally awesome that I did. Anyone can do it, it is easy no and that's why you don't hear it often. If I had a degree would the path have been easier, sure, but then again, it's also no guarantee of success either which is a false narrative that is pushed constantly. Interestingly all to the benefit of higher education Colleges and Universities that are bastions of liberalism and interestingly flush with cash, and have the appearance of a sprawling luxury estate.

There was no "unique" set of circumstances that got me where I am today other than me and very careful decision making on my part, every decision is made with a end goal and purpose in mind. Did every decision that I made pan out, of course not, but I certainly didn't run into my "safe space" and cry room, hug a stuffed gumby and have a temper tantrum. No I looked, learned, and carried on.

Want to be successful? DUH! Hang around people that are successful. Learn from them, ask questions, figure out how they did it and duplicate it. One lesson I learned along the way is if you do what everyone else does you end up like everyone else. Want to be different, then take a different path, take calculated risks, be bold, make it happen, if you think success just "finds" you or somehow you are lucky that's total BS. Success comes to those who try and take on risk. If you fail, learn from your mistakes and try again. Rarely does anyone win playing defense. Words of wisdom from a friend of mine who is both an entrepreneur and a multi millionaire. Should I add that he too has zero college credits to his name. Now that is awesome! Of course to you that's evil but we all have our differences in opinions.

Want to be like everyone else, DUH! Go to your nearest college campus and be a self identified victim. Good luck with that as a career choice.

Attribution bias is psycho-babble? Your response is almost 100% self-credit, completely disregarding your opportunities and the fact that the times, requirements, and finances have changed dramatically. By your rationale, getting out of poverty is just a matter of making good choices. Though there are numerous studies showing that's ridiculous, they're probably all liberal nonsense, right?

I'm not going to continue OT anymore but--and I'm serious about this--if you, or anyone else following, is interested in connecting for a legitimate discussion on these topics, I'd be up for a soda when next I'm up. Until then, enjoy MA and NH--two of the best states to live.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Attribution bias is psycho-babble? Your response is almost 100% self-credit, completely disregarding your opportunities and the fact that the times, requirements, and finances have changed dramatically. By your rationale, getting out of poverty is just a matter of making good choices. Though there are numerous studies showing that's ridiculous, they're probably all liberal nonsense, right?

I'm not going to continue OT anymore but--and I'm serious about this--if you, or anyone else following, is interested in connecting for a legitimate discussion on these topics, I'd be up for a soda when next I'm up. Until then, enjoy MA and NH--two of the best states to live.

No it's not, it's a rebuke of your generalization and as such, I simply say I am not coming from a theoretical position, instead I lived it. Quite poignant don't you think? Guess not it's rather to much self-credit? So yes I'm so sorry, I should be instead ashamed of myself. Gotcha!

Would love to chat some time, believe it or not I am quite capable of carrying on an intelligent conversation even with my "limited" education.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Attribution bias is psycho-babble? Your response is almost 100% self-credit, completely disregarding your opportunities and the fact that the times, requirements, and finances have changed dramatically. By your rationale, getting out of poverty is just a matter of making good choices. Though there are numerous studies showing that's ridiculous, they're probably all liberal nonsense, right?

I'm not going to continue OT anymore but--and I'm serious about this--if you, or anyone else following, is interested in connecting for a legitimate discussion on these topics, I'd be up for a soda when next I'm up. Until then, enjoy MA and NH--two of the best states to live.

I will respectfully disagree with you about changing times. The studies you cite are probably written by academics who have not spent a lot of time working in the real world.

I have a similar background to Maxum and started with nothing. Right after high school I remember walking because there was no gas in my car and I needed to go somewhere. I worked in gas stations and decided I wanted more out of life.

I sold my first car to have enough money to go to tractor trailer school and get a better paying job. I drove over a million miles in Class A trucks, worked all the overtime that was available, and invested any extra money I had in real estate. Then I moved on and had success in other areas.

Without going into more detail I will only tell you that I am now very comfortable, own more than one waterfront property on Winnipesaukee, and have a Florida home for the winter. No one ever gave me 5 cents.

Anyone can do exactly what I (or Maxum) have done. The opportunities are the same and some are even better, It is the positive attitude and the knowledge that you are responsible for your own success that will drive many people to get ahead. Others will wait for success to show up at their door, and be surprised when it doesn't.

Then, when someone does become one of the 1%, those who do not have the drive to succeed will try to tax you into sharing the rewards of your success with them.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I will respectfully disagree with you about changing times. The studies you cite are probably written by academics who have not spent a lot of time working in the real world.

I have a similar background to Maxum and started with nothing. Right after high school I remember walking because there was no gas in my car and I needed to go somewhere. I worked in gas stations and decided I wanted more out of life.

I sold my first car to have enough money to go to tractor trailer school and get a better paying job. I drove over a million miles in Class A trucks, worked all the overtime that was available, and invested any extra money I had in real estate. Then I moved on and had success in other areas.

Without going into more detail I will only tell you that I am now very comfortable, own more than one waterfront property on Winnipesaukee, and have a Florida home for the winter. No one ever gave me 5 cents.

Anyone can do exactly what I (or Maxum) have done. The opportunities are the same and some are even better, It is the positive attitude and the knowledge that you are responsible for your own success that will drive many people to get ahead. Others will wait for success to show up at their door, and be surprised when it doesn't.

Then, when someone does become one of the 1%, those who do not have the drive to succeed will try to tax you into sharing the rewards of your success with them.

TiltonBB - GREAT story and I love it. This is what the true "American Dream" is! This is the kind of thing that all kids need to be taught and aspire to. What's even better you found success as a truck driver which many would scoff at as a substandard career. For me, I tip my hat to you sir for getting it done. Hell of an accomplishment. Even better that you are proof you don't need a white collar job either.

I'm sure it was all just pure luck on your part right?

Oh and just one more thing, I hope you fully enjoy the spoils of all your hard work! You earned it.

[Biggd]

All you need to do is look at the college admission scandal to realize what's going on in todays society with these families. People with means pay for everything for their kids today. They really don't have to work for anything anymore and they grow up thinking that this is the way life is for the rest of their lives.
For some that is the way the rest of their life will be, living off mom and dads money. For others, when they are forced to earn there own keep, they are completely lost because they haven't learned the survivor skills needed to succeed in this world.
No matter where they come from, at some point they become adults and they need to sink or swim on their own and many do sink.
My favorite saying from custom car builder Chip Foose, "in my day kids dreamed about building things, today they dream about buying things", is the reality of today.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when 80% of the people in the US are on some kind of drug, whether prescribed or self medicated. When the lines at the cannabis stores are longer than the lines at any other store I think we are headed in the wrong direction.

[Airedale1]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Anyone can do exactly what I (or Maxum) have done. The opportunities are the same and some are even better, It is the positive attitude and the knowledge that you are responsible for your own success that will drive many people to get ahead. Others will wait for success to show up at their door, and be surprised when it doesn't.

Amen! Well said, and reminded me of this quote.

[Andromeda321]

This thread is frankly disturbing to read as someone in their 30s. If I were to show half as much contempt towards the older generation for ratcheting up the skyrocketing debt and destroying the environment or whatever else thing about the world we inherited, y'all would lambast me for being disrespectful to others.

I also have high suspicions on which of you don't actually know many (or any) people of the generation you lambast, and would share my own stories but suspect you will be reading it to cherry pick what fits your preconceptions, and I have better things to do. But as someone who recently joined this forum, I'm not sure I feel all that welcome now.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Andromeda321

This thread is frankly disturbing to read as someone in their 30s. If I were to show half as much contempt towards the older generation for ratcheting up the skyrocketing debt and destroying the environment or whatever else thing about the world we inherited, y'all would lambast me for being disrespectful to others.

I also have high suspicions on which of you don't actually know many (or any) people of the generation you lambast, and would share my own stories but suspect you will be reading it to cherry pick what fits your preconceptions, and I have better things to do. But as someone who recently joined this forum, I'm not sure I feel all that welcome now.

Don't give up on us old farts. We are from a generation that has to see physical change first hand in real life. We don't believe or trust what we can't see or touch.
It's unfortunate that the only news that captures headlines is bad news.
I have kids in their 30's and I'm thankful that they are all mature hard working adults but I still work harder than all of them at 65.
You are right about one thing, we have to take ownership of the problems of today, They are because of us and not you! Your generation has a lot of work to do to clean up our mess. I hope you're up to the task.
I'm afraid you will be saying the same thing about the younger generation when you get to be our age as our parents said those same things about us. It's a right of passage.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Andromeda321

This thread is frankly disturbing to read as someone in their 30s. If I were to show half as much contempt towards the older generation for ratcheting up the skyrocketing debt and destroying the environment or whatever else thing about the world we inherited, y'all would lambast me for being disrespectful to others.

I also have high suspicions on which of you don't actually know many (or any) people of the generation you lambast, and would share my own stories but suspect you will be reading it to cherry pick what fits your preconceptions, and I have better things to do. But as someone who recently joined this forum, I'm not sure I feel all that welcome now.

As a parent of 5 children ranging in age from 23-33 I'm with 100%. Saying that the younger generation is less hard working than our generation is just plain ignorant. My kids work their ASSES off. Much harder than I had to work and I have enjoyed some success. I've read this stupid comment before and frankly whoever writes it is just plain embarrassing yourselves. Perhaps your own hapless kids are indolent but I'll thank you to not paint an entire generation that way.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

As a parent of 5 children ranging in age from 23-33 I'm with 100%. Saying that the younger generation is less hard working than our generation is just plain ignorant.

Ignorant labeling of someone who you do not share the same opinion with is truly ignorant.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Andromeda321

This thread is frankly disturbing to read as someone in their 30s. If I were to show half as much contempt towards the older generation for ratcheting up the skyrocketing debt and destroying the environment or whatever else thing about the world we inherited, y'all would lambast me for being disrespectful to others.

I also have high suspicions on which of you don't actually know many (or any) people of the generation you lambast, and would share my own stories but suspect you will be reading it to cherry pick what fits your preconceptions, and I have better things to do. But as someone who recently joined this forum, I'm not sure I feel all that welcome now.

A difference of opinion should not be a measure of whether or not you "feel" welcome or not. Ideally, if you have a particular thought and you truly aspire to that belief then defend it. To simply subjugate yourself to like minded people is easy and frankly rather close minded. Never know, when you have a discussion with somebody who happens to hold a different point of view, you likely will come away from a conversation either with more conviction or could learn something you didn't know or didn't consider that may change your way of thinking. It's a good exercise to have, so long as the conversation is constructive.

One thing to keep in mind regarding the older generations, while it is easy to cherry pick what they may have not done well, it's also worthwhile to consider what they did right. Even the best baseball player in the world didn't bat 1000. Some of the most ingenious engineering marvels today were built out of yesterday's repeated failures.

[Andromeda321]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

One thing to keep in mind regarding the older generations, while it is easy to cherry pick what they may have not done well, it's also worthwhile to consider what they did right. Even the best baseball player in the world didn't bat 1000. Some of the most ingenious engineering marvels today were built out of yesterday's repeated failures.

Ok! One thing to keep in mind regarding the younger generations, while it is easy to cherry pick what they may have not done well, it's also worthwhile to consider what they are doing right.

[Major]

Just because we have differences of opinion doesn't mean that you are not welcome. Don't confuse healthy debate with exclusion.

I find the young people at my firm are the same when I was young. They are relatively well educated, ambitious, and hard working. My kids, 26 and 23, fit into this category. For the most part they are fun and enjoyable to work with.

I do have to share an event that happened yesterday though, which illustrates that times are changing. One of our relatively new employees returned a project that was for one of our national defense contracting clients. He stated that he had a moral objection to doing work for that client. My response was that I respected his conviction and would reassign the work to another employee. However, I cautioned him that as much as I and my firm respect his opinion, he had an equal obligation to respect those of us who enjoy doing that type of work for that particular client. I did not want to see him peddling his views to other employees and being a negative influence to others. I also reminded him that I served 24 years in the Reserves and National Guard, and that I am proud of my service. And that's what makes America great. We can coexist with different ideas and hopefully still be able to get some things done.

I cannot imagine something like this happening 32 years ago when I began my career. I cannot imagine summoning up the courage to make such a stand. So hats off to him at least for that.

[tis]

I agree we shouldn't generalize and there are plenty of young people who work extremely hard and will be very successful in life. Attitude has a lot to do with it and what they get fed today doesn't help those who have a hard time thinking for themselves.

Major, I admire your patience and I would probably would have felt I had to do the same thing you did. This would certainly affect my opinion of this employee however. As you said, 32 years ago WE never would have said such a thing to a boss. But this is exactly the sort of difference between generations and this is the kind of thing Maxum was pointing out. (Not that I want to speak for Maxum.)

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Major

Just because we have differences of opinion doesn't mean that you are not welcome. Don't confuse healthy debate with exclusion.

I find the young people at my firm are the same when I was young. They are relatively well educated, ambitious, and hard working. My kids, 26 and 23, fit into this category. For the most part they are fun and enjoyable to work with.

I do have to share an event that happened yesterday though, which illustrates that times are changing. One of our relatively new employees returned a project that was for one of our national defense contracting clients. He stated that he had a moral objection to doing work for that client. My response was that I respected his conviction and would reassign the work to another employee. However, I cautioned him that as much as I and my firm respect his opinion, he had an equal obligation to respect those of us who enjoy doing that type of work for that particular client. I did not want to see him peddling his views to other employees and being a negative influence to others. I also reminded him that I served 24 years in the Reserves and National Guard, and that I am proud of my service. And that's what makes America great. We can coexist with different ideas and hopefully still be able to get some things done.

I cannot imagine something like this happening 32 years ago when I began my career. I cannot imagine summoning up the courage to make such a stand. So hats off to him at least for that.

My compliments on how you handled this. I couldn’t or wouldn’t have been able to do it when I was working. About 15 years ago one of the younger engineers in a firm I was working for came to me and said he wasn’t interested in doing one of my projects that was assigned to him because it “wasn’t exciting.” After I paused to take a deep breath I informed him that he was hired to do work that was assigned to him not to do just “exciting” and if this was a problem he always had other options. Unfortunately, I wasn’t his direct report.

I guess it was generational, but I always felt that as long as someone was paying me I tried to do what I was asked to do. When I found myself in a situation where I had profound issues I found a new employer whom I could work with/for.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

My compliments on how you handled this. I couldn’t or wouldn’t have been able to do it when I was working. About 15 years ago one of the younger engineers in a firm I was working for came to me and said he wasn’t interested in doing one of my projects that was assigned to him because it “wasn’t exciting.” After I paused to take a deep breath I informed him that he was hired to do work that was assigned to him not to do just “exciting” and if this was a problem he always had other options. Unfortunately, I wasn’t his direct report.

I guess it was generational, but I always felt that as long as someone was paying me I tried to do what I was asked to do. When I found myself in a situation where I had profound issues I found a new employer whom I could work with/for.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit. As most people in this Forum know, I am pretty much a Neanderthal; however, over the past several years I've had to adapt to the changing times. We are in desperate need of talent, and sometimes you need to at least empathize with opposing views. I guarantee that my reaction 15 years ago would have been much different.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Andromeda321

This thread is frankly disturbing to read as someone in their 30s. If I were to show half as much contempt towards the older generation for ratcheting up the skyrocketing debt and destroying the environment or whatever else thing about the world we inherited, y'all would lambast me for being disrespectful to others.

I also have high suspicions on which of you don't actually know many (or any) people of the generation you lambast, and would share my own stories but suspect you will be reading it to cherry pick what fits your preconceptions, and I have better things to do. But as someone who recently joined this forum, I'm not sure I feel all that welcome now.

I think you should feel welcome on this forum. If you read many of the posts on this site there is much to be learned and you will also see that people posting here do not always agree on everything. Very often there is a lot of back and forth discussion. Feel free to post your facts and opinions.

I will say that the "everyone gets a trophy, and don't grade my paper with red ink" mentality leads people to shy away from any disagreement or the opportunity to express their thoughts. In my opinion that type of education will lead to much disappointment in life.

Things will not always go your way, and bosses and co workers will not always share the same opinions you have. Knowing when to push back and knowing when to push forward are a very helpful part of growing up.

When I started working, I learned a lot more from bosses who I admired than I ever did in school. I am still trying to figure out when I will use two years of French I.

[JEEPONLY]

Truly rich people (think not just money) v. quasi rich people:
-Don't bother bragging
-Are philanthropic
-Invest their money, and personal time, in the education of future
generations

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

Truly rich people (think not just money) v. quasi rich people:
-Don't bother bragging
-Are philanthropic
-Invest their money, and personal time, in the education of future
generations

Quite true - however the term "bragging" often times is misconstrued. Telling one's story, especially in overcoming adversity as a means to either mentor, inspire or motivate others is not a bad thing either. Much can be learned from others and I found that though out my own life experience the folks I tended to pay the most attention to are those that actually accomplished goals despite long odds of success. Otherwise what are you being offered other than a theoretical opinion?

It does however require a little humility to look within and recognize that you don't have all the answers. Doesn't mean that somebody else does either, but learning from others success and failures does provide a means to evaluate your own path, pending decisions, and perspective on things. Interestingly enough the more one ages the more one realizes just how little they really know!

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Really? Careful - you have no idea who you are saying that to. Guess if that were true I'd be some poor guy who would not amount to nothing other than a minimum wage job. Good thing I never listened to people like you. I'll even pile on just for fun, not only do I have nothing other than a high school education, yet have a professional job, but I managed to raise a family on a SINGLE income. The biggest misconception is you have to do XY and Z to be successful. No - you just have to be better than everyone else. What did I do that is so different, never believed anyone say I can't accomplish what I did, in fact I just used that as motivation to prove them all wrong.

Spot on MAXUM in my opinion.

[Garcia]

Interesting reading here. My question is, if we have a generation that is lazy, entitled, and seeking out wasteful education, who is responsible for creating the environment that allowed this to happen? Is it the children themselves, or is it all of us of an older generation that either created the situation through our direct actions or contributed to it by not playing an active role in preventing it? Just as our parents created the environment we grew up in, we created the environment for the next generation. I realize this might not be the place for such questions...

The bottom line to me, as one who splits time between Massachusetts and New Hampshire, is both states are great. I love the opportunities, people, and environments in both - and have no desire to move anywhere else!

[tis]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

The mentality today is that business is evil, government is good. Government will pay for everything, so we don’t need private enterprise for anything (Right AOC??)

Yes and government picks the money to give away for everything off the trees!! WHERE in the heck do people think the money for all these things comes from?????

I do agree though that companies like Amazon should be paying taxes. How come they get all kinds of breaks and we don't? But according to what I pay I don't think I suck off the resources provided by the public. I think I pay MORE than my fair share!!