Thermocline

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by dt5150

salmon fishing is going to be tough this year, and quite possibly for the next few. the days of 20+ fish trips are gone, at least for a while.

Precisely why they should do away with the damned derbies...fish killers.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Precisely why they should do away with the damned derbies...fish killers.

Unfortunately money talks !

[MikeF-NH]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Precisely why they should do away with the damned derbies...fish killers.

Guys, I try to let these statements go but I will once again drop my 2 cents. The last two times I talked to derby organizers, they said less than 200 salmon come to the weigh station each year. Yes these fish are killed but legally and morally so.

So lets look at other "fish killer":
Guides (I hold no animosity but...): Each time I see a guide post, his clients keep and kill 100% of legal fish they catch. Figuring 3 clients/trip (6 fish) times 3 trips a week (18 fish) times 3-4 guides working (54-62 fish/week) times 10 working weeks. 540-620 fish killed per year. Again...legally and morally caught...just keeping the fish killers in perspective.

Legal recreational "meat" fishermen: Watch the NH Trolling or Winni fishing facebook boards and you will see that almost ALL of the rec "meat" fishermen are keeping every legal fish they catch. I have no numbers so will drop non-scientific/low ball guesses here: 20 fishermen fish twice a week and keep 2 fish per trip...thats 80 fish at 10 weeks is 800 fish.

So lets compare just these and NOT count the "killers" that are the C&R guys that unintentionally kill or hook wound 5% of their catch...lets go conservative and say 50 fish each week are impacted...500 for the season.

Lets do some completely unscientific math to add perspective:
Guides: 600
Rec Meat Eaters: 800
C&R Unintentional mortality: 500
...again...all of these killers are legal and moral and I do not judge...I am just putting into perspective and we see 1900 fish killed....compared to less than 200 from the derby.

I will also give the organizers their due...they listened to a recommendation to post regular board updates so the guys in the boats know if the 21" fish they just caught is "in the money" which allows these guys to release more borderline fish.

Lets say I'm entirely crazy and DOUBLED estimates for non-derby "killers"...they still kill almost 5X the fish that the derby kills. If you think the derby kills more than 200...do what I did and ask the organizers OR even John Viar at NHF&G so at least you have facts.

I'm sure Dan would concur that the current fishing drought is not because of the derby but is because of the state of the stocking program over the past few years with very small smolt being stocked and almost completely eaten by natural predation. (which reminds me that I didn't mention predation: eagles, loons, lakers, etc...all taking "their share").

If you don't like the derby...everyone is entitled to their opinions but lets not blame the state of the fishery on a one weekend event that kills a fraction of other legal and moral salmon takers. AND while the derby certainly has negative impact...lets not forget that the derby brings 10s of thousands of off season dollars to local businesses in the lakes region, and funds to the Laconia Rotary organizers and Boy Scouts of America and is a family tradition for hundreds of family. When its gone...it will never come back and it is currently (IMO) in a death spiral with prizes and participant numbers dropping each year. It will die a "natural" death...I don't think we need to rush it by suggesting its participants and organizations or cold blooded killers....they are legal and moral consumers of this public resource.

[MeredithMan]

MikeF--

I always enjoy reading your posts on the fishing topic. I always learn something from your comments and from ishoot308's as well. I just wish I could fish as well as you guys.....

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by MikeF-NH

I'm sure Dan would concur that the current fishing drought is not because of the derby but is because of the state of the stocking program over the past few years with very small smolt being stocked and almost completely eaten.

I concur with this 100%! The derby is / was not the cause of the salmon demise in the lake. With that being said, I do disagree that only the 200 boarded fish during the derby impact the lake...I would quadruple that amount due to the amount that die due to mishandling, hook wounding, etc, etc. Those unknown numbers cannot be discounted. In years past the lake could easily handle this culling of salmon annually as all age classes were strong. Not so now.

With the missing age classes and salmon numbers so low now I just wish they would have reconfigured the derby to not include salmon as a prize fish. The lake has more lake trout than it knows what to do with, People fish the bottom for lake trout, not the upper water column where salmon are in Early June. They should have made lakers the prize fish and the impact would have been less severe in my opinion. I also feel by doing so would have made more people aware of the issue going on. As hard as I have tried to make people / fishermen aware of the issue, it wasn’t enough...

I want to be perfectly clear on something...I am not a biologist, we have spoken to the state and their biologist and in their opinion the derby has a negligible effect on the salmon numbers....while I may disagree with this, they are the ones we pay to safeguard our resources and Biologist John Viar in particular I have a lot respect for! What I don’t understand is the first derby on the lake was started to reduce salmon numbers due to over stocking and a shortage of smelt in the lake. Back then the State bragged how successful the derby was in reducing salmon numbers and helping the lake regain the smelt population and salmon age classes. Why is it different now?....

I have a love hate relationship with the derby. I feel it brings out the best and worst in people. Unfortunately as soon as you add money and prizes to anything the dark side rears its ugly head. I guess I just could never understand why you need to add money and prizes to take your family fishing.... I wish everyone fished the derby the way Mike F does. He is class act sportsmen and enjoys the the derby for the right reason! Not everyone fishes it like Mike though...

As far as guides go, my opinion is there is only a few of them (good ones) on the lake. Most of them teach their customers how to handle fish and the importance of catch and release and when to cull a fish. Right now if the guides are catching two salmon per outing, that would be considered good...only believe 50% what is posted on some of these fishing related chat rooms! Fishermen are known liars! ��

Dan