Results!!!!! No Wake

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by MJP

And...uh, mcdude...I wouldn't be out there in my kayak today if my life depended on it; 'cause it would.

Thanks for the heads up, MJP. I had pretty much come to the same conclusion. Other than this glorious weather, the other nice thing I've noticed about this week-end is NO BUGS!!!

[GusMan]

You're right... I apologize for the language...
Inappropriate phrase used without thinking and
without hostile intent.

Gusman

[GusMan]

Also... I edited the offending reply out of the original message...

Not trying to hide from it... just cleaning it up.

Gusman

[Winni]

I feel so sorry for the Marine Patrol. We had so many violators, including a few PWCs doing wheelies no more than 60ft. from our shore (for hours!), I finally started calling the Marine Patrol around 1:00 pm. 4 calls later and they still didn't show and my husband started getting really fed up. I think he probably made another 5 or 6 calls. At 5:20 pm, they FINALLY showed and of course everyone had cleared out for supper (and/or because he was there) and all was (fairly) calm.

I'm telling you I'm ready to bust a gasket! I watched two kayakers have to hold on to each other not 10 ft. off my shore so they wouldn't be tipped over by the waves. When the MP got here we told him exact descriptions of the PWCs and showed him what house they were at. He came back and told us, "They have them all covered up and denied everything!" Well, of course! Then he told me he'd need me to, and you all know this bit of insanity, "Get their bow numbers!"

My word, people, what is it going to take to get some sanity into our NH government!!! I think I'm living in a parallel universe, because it just seems that no one in Concord is getting it! I'm beginning to believe the state motto is mis-stated, it might as well read, "Live Free AND die," because I feel like I must be dead...no one is listening!

[JK47]

The MP can't be everywhere at once. If people are being irresponsible and you know where their dock/house is, go over there and inform then of the no wake rule. Much of it is innocent - many people not boating from marinas have no idea about the no wake restriction. Above all, relax and enjoy the holiday.

[ApS]

Tolerable as Saturday was, today was awful.

You could have told me that the No-Wake Rule had been rescinded at 2PM today, and I'd have believed you. (And the exhaust-noise abatement rule, too).

I re-learned something about wakes: You can make a huge arc with your boat and the inside, more curved, wake will triple in intensity and size as it reaches the shore: One of the biggest wakes crashing against my dock today was made by a ski-boat close to the opposite shore, one-half mile away.

They constructed my dock really well in 1985, but my neighbor's much newer docks have been taking a beating. One neighbor has a dock made with mahogany decking. What that's going to look like after a month of this -- is anybody's guess.

There appears to be more debris in the water today than yesterday, and nobody's slowing to pick up any of it.

These aren't the boaters of 1984. (Or 1998, for that matter).

[Winni]

Originally Posted by JK47

The MP can't be everywhere at once. If people are being irresponsible and you know where their dock/house is, go over there and inform then of the no wake rule. Much of it is innocent - many people not boating from marinas have no idea about the no wake restriction. Above all, relax and enjoy the holiday.

Oh, don't worry; we DID inform them and as I said, they just denied everything they were doing. We went over and had a discussion of the 3 rules they were breaking over and over and what it was doing to the wildlife and all of our docks. They still lied to the MP 4 hours later! I've been through this enough times to know the routine, believe me! There is not a thing the regular law abiding citizen/victim can do.

This isn't about the MPs. It's about Gov. Lynch making the tourist dollar more important than the safety of the wildlife, the public, and our property. He put the MPs in an impossible position. They are hugely understaffed and underpaid. It IS about Lynch not looking at the whole picture. As someone said in another post, this is worse than no ruling at all.

Clearly you must not live on the shores of one of the affected lakes or are in an area not as exposed as we are. We've all been just holding our breaths here waiting for someone to get hurt or our boats or docks to get bashed with trash or snapped off in whole or part. If you were sitting there watching your dock (which has always been very secure) being thrashed about, as well as your boat and those of your neighbors, you would not be having such a nice weekend either.

Glad you're enjoying it; I'm not and won't be until all these self-centered fools get off the water. Then we can gear up for the invasion of 500,000 +/- more people who could also care less about the preservation of the NH Lakes Region in about 2 more weeks... Zoom Zoom... It is so sad to see what has happened here in the last 20 years. And, I think we're supposed to call this "progress", right?

[hiker47]

It is with amusement and disgust that I have read some of the postings and replies. The words selfish, arrogant, and seldf centered cross my mind. I feel soory for the merchants with the poor winter and rainy weekends as well as the landowners who have property destroyed by the flooding. What I can't understand is the people who have no regard for others or their property as well as no regard for their safety or the safety of others. I have heard many times " no one owns the lake" or "we have the same rights to the lake as the propery owners". Consider this before you speed across the lake, in violation of the law, or reply in anger to others thoughts. God owns the lake because hemade it. He has given all of us the privelege of using it and enjoying it. Also, along with rights are respect and responsibility. It is a privelege to use the lake, not a right, and that privelege is constatntly earned by being respectful of others and rsponsible in followingh the rules and laws set forth.
Life is too short, Slow down, stop and smell the roses. They really doo smell very nice. YIS, doc

[foster]

mjp, it sounds to me that you might never be happy or content around people having a good time in ways that you do not approve of. so why don't you move to a nice secluded place with no one around ? you cant change other people by complaining, you can only change your own attitude.

[KonaChick]

My husband is up today doing some seasonal chores. The water is unbelievably high...he's been coming to the lake his whole life and had never seen it this high. Our dock is taking a pounding he says...not many observing the NWZ w/in 600' of shore...hell not ever our neighbors are he said. MJP I know how furstrated you are we have similar neighbors. Their favorite thing to do is let their 12 yr. old kids and friends out on the jetski's alone....they do it all the time. I've called MP so many times it's on speed dial..they've never show up. Foster it doesn't sound like to me that MJP is upset about people having a good time in ways he does not aprove of..it sounds as if all he wants is for people to have thier good times w/in the confines of the law. Funny that he's the one you pointed out in your post..and not the people who were breaking the law.

[Airwaves]

Let me preface this by saying I have looked at, but NOT read, all the posts on this topic.

One thing that keeps coming through to me, especially in some of the later posts, is the lack of response by MP to calls for violations.

During the 45/25 discussion it was pointed out by myself and a number of others that perhaps MP forces need to be expanded and a couple of ideas on how to fund the expansion were presented.

Another item that someone posted during the 45/25 debate. I don't know what has come of it but I think it's a great idea. IIRC someone posted the Laconia paper was thinking about adding the Marine Patrol to their police call list. Publishing the calls that are logged into MP and how they were handled.

It might be interesting to see what they are doing and how many boats they have on the lake during peak periods. It would give us more information about whether they are underfunded and overworked, or just an agency that needs to get their act together.

[foster]

Have you ever passed a car that was doing the speed limit? have you ever slightly rolled a stop sign? should i call the cops on you when i see it, no i dont think so. maybe a little more Live and let live, unless a person is being hurt by another then i would step in. when the wind blows are you going to call the cops on mother nature? when its all over and the water goes down, go help your neighbors rebuild their dock and live your life.

[KonaChick]

[QUOTE=foster]Have you ever passed a car that was doing the speed limit? have you ever slightly rolled a stop sign? should i call the cops on you when i see it, no i dont think so. maybe a little more Live and let live, unless a person is being hurt by another then i would step in. when the wind blows are you going to call the cops on mother nature? when its all over and the water goes down, go help your neighbors rebuild their dock and live your life.[/QUO


No the police shouldn't be called I agree with you there. Now let's take it a step further. What if I was speeding by your home 25 times a day? What if you had kids who rode their bikes..walked to friends houses on that very same road I was speeding up and down on?? Would you call the police then? I bet you would. That's how I feel. You ride by my home at ungodly speeds and put my family or property in danger...I'm going to call the police.

[HotDog]

KonaChick,
i know what your saying but speeding by a house in a car is a lot different then speeding by your house on a boat, do you swim across the lake more then 60' away from your house? prob. not and if you are then you shouldn't, if someone comes closer to your house will swiming then you should call but, that aren't damaging anyone.

[KonaChick]

Originally Posted by HotDog

KonaChick,
i know what your saying but speeding by a house in a car is a lot different then speeding by your house on a boat, do you swim across the lake more then 60' away from your house? prob. not and if you are then you shouldn't, if someone comes closer to your house will swiming then you should call but, that aren't damaging anyone.

Hotdog this is all in reference to our property being damaged by large wakes because of the high water.....I'm saying that the reference to sliding through a stop sign or someone passing me on the highway speeding isn't a good one because the large wakes rolling across my beach and dock due to boats not obeying the law ARE doing damage...it's NOT as trivial as the comparison of sliding through a stop sign or someone passing you on the highway over the speed limit. People just aren't getting it.

[Tir Na Nog]

I just got back to the Boston after a weekend up at the Lake. We did get out on the boat both Saturday and Sunday. We boat out of Wolfeboro. I saw very few boats following the No Wake rule. Nor did it seem to me that anyone at Goodhue hawkins was advising boaters of the rule. Saturday was a little windy and there were not as many boats out when we were at around 4, but even in Wolfeboro Bay the boats were popping right up to speed and pushing a wake as soon as they got away from the docks. On Sunday, there were may more boats out and even less compliance. We motored over to Alton Bay and as we came to the area of Echo Point (where I think it would be tough to keep 600 feet from either shore) we saw all of these boats coming out at headway speed and I thought at least there the word was out. A little further in the Bay I saw why. There was a MP boat cruising out. CLearly noncompliance was not just a lack of knowledge. I saw one boat passing all the others at headway speed, probably not even following the 150 foot rule as to other boats, and he immediately powered down when he saw the MP boat, which I had hoped would be pulling him over. There seems very limited enforcement of the rules. Has NH ever considered something similar to the Coast Guard Auxillary to help out on the lake? Auxillary volunteers have been very helpful to the Coasties with little expense as they are volunteers.

[Dave R]

Perhaps a silly question, but if folks are worried about their docks taking such a beating, why not just pull them out until the water goes down?

[Island Life]

I keep my boat at Fay's and I didn't see any signs announcing the no-wake rule. If I hadn't read about it here, I wouldn't have known. Saw MP several times but they weren't enforcing the no-wake rule.

Three or four sections of different docks have washed up on my beach. Two of them look to be of standard size and I thought it might be a good idea to drop them off someplace where they can be claimed by people looking to replace the sections they've lost. Any ideas about where I could leave them?

[DRH]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Perhaps a silly question, but if folks are worried about their docks taking such a beating, why not just pull them out until the water goes down?

A great many docks on the lake are permanent, installed either on pilings driven down into the lake bottom or on cribs which contain large rocks to secure the dock to the lake bottom. Only "seasonal" docks can be raised up out of the water.

[Woodsy]

Nobody seems to get that there are competing interests...

Bottom line is that 600' was a reasonable compromise. As I predicted, nobody is really happy with it. I really don't think that the word got out as well as it should have. That might have been somewhat intentional. We do need the tourist $$$ to help pay for all of the flood damage.

I did witness an MP boat stationed in Paugus Bay for most of the day Sat & Sun. He was pretty busy "informing" people of the NWZ. Paugus was pretty calm...

Woodsy

[Winni]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Bottom line is that 600' was a reasonable compromise.

Fact: This was not a compromise. Compromise was not possible in this issue. 150 ft., 600 ft., 800 ft...it doesn't matter. $ won; they were, in the end, all that mattered.

Physics 101: You put your finger in a bowl of water; stir it around, and the "waves" will hit the edge of the bowl. You DO NOT put your finger in the water; you DO NOT stir it around, and the waves (except those produced by nature itself) will NOT hit the edge of the bowl. (p.s. It doesn't matter where you put your finger in the bowl.)

You might want to reread your tag line.

[Kevin C]

Thanks Mee-n-Mac for the websites and your reply.....now bookmarked for future reference.

[Winni]

Have any of you noticed not one word has been said in these forums, at least that I've seen, about what this weekend is really about? It is especially important today, May 30th, the original "Memorial Day". We are all so busy arguing and protecting our own "beliefs" that no one has bothered to say a word about what we should really be worrying about...

...that no more soldiers must die or be injured. I lived through the Vietnam era and I lost people I went to school with. I watch the news every day. We are all missing the most important point here:

Thank you, with the greatest pride and sincerity, to all who are currently in uniform serving us and to those who have passed and served us.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by DRH

A great many docks on the lake are permanent, installed either on pilings driven down into the lake bottom or on cribs which contain large rocks to secure the dock to the lake bottom. Only "seasonal" docks can be raised up out of the water.

I'd think any dock built to survive ice would have an easy time with water and would not be in danger. If not, perhaps a re-design is in order. I doubt this'll be the last flood.

This a great opportunity for folks to fix weaknesses in design and implementation. Seems to me, that would a better way to spend time than fretting about wakes. If folks really care about maintaining their property in it's current state, they should do what is necessary to prevent it from changing.

[Winni]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I'd think any dock built to survive ice would have an easy time with water and would not be in danger. If not, perhaps a re-design is in order. I doubt this'll be the last flood.

Most people who have permanent docks have winter circulators. These are simply machines that keep the water moving, do no harm to the environment, and keep ice from forming around these docks in winter. Even these are no match for Mother Nature, however. Even the most sturdily built dock with multiple circulators cannot battle against ice floes. A few years back one of my neighbors, who has a very sturdy dock and circulators, stood there and watched a big chuck of ice during ice-out take away 1/2 his u-dock in seconds. That was over $5,000 in damage in a blink of an eye. There is simply nothing anyone can do when nature takes its course. So, I wish people would stop trying to blame shore owners and scold them for not having sturdy docks.

As for floods and waves... Like ice, we can't control or predict flooding. No one ever saw this perhaps-once-in-a-lifetime type of situation coming, not even the weathermen. We do the best we can with the money we have to keep our docks from letting go and causing public danger. No one could predict the kinds of beatings our docks would take last fall and now again this spring. But, the thing is, there are NO MACHINES that can stop wave action, and this CAN BE CONTROLLED by people, so it should have been.

So, please stop criticizing us and realize we are as much concerned about public safety and danger to wildlife as we are about our own property damage, maybe even more. A dock can be rebuilt, but a child getting hurt while tubing (yes, they did it in the fruit salad of debris right in front of our house on Sunday) or a loon nest with eggs destroyed just so someone can get an adrenaline rush, is unthinkable.

Hope this is the last time I have to reiterate this...

[LIforrelaxin]

MJP, very good post....you are right on with your comments.......

Now I am new here and trying not to blast people.....and of course at the momment can't even tell you who made the comment....but someone in this thread, posed the question of why not just take a seasonal dock out. Well for those that have never put a dock in or out let me just say....it is not that easy. I would have loved to have taken my dock out....as welll as my nieghbors (my aunt and uncles) but....I can't do it be myself....I have to get help to help me, which is usually not a problem....but to ask someone to give up thier weekend to help me.....and then be left to ask the same person to help me a few weeks later....come on...

For a situation that happens so seldom....people should just grow up....and realize that once or twice in thier lives they may not be able to what they want when they want..............

[Kevin C]

I have stayed off the lake for the last couple of weekends (which has been killing me as I have yet to be out on the lake this year) in an effort to respect the lakefront owners situation as well as the environmental impact, not to mention the floating debris around the lake. I found the following statement from Bizer about the lake:

The flow of water leaving Lake Winnipesaukee at the Lakeport Dam is measured in cubic feet per second. At near full blast, the damn can release 1.24 billion gallons of water per day, or about enough water to lower the level of Lake Winnipesaukee just one inch. -Bizer

Can anyone tell me what the status of the outflow is presently and what the estimate is for the lake to be at an acceptable level so that normal boating operations can resume? I know that the outflow from the lake has to be respectful of those downstream.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Kevin C

{snip} Can anyone tell me what the status of the outflow is presently and what the estimate is for the lake to be at an acceptable level so that normal boating operations can resume? I know that the outflow from the lake has to be respectful of those downstream.

The discharge rate for the Lakeport dam can be found here
http://www.des.state.nh.us/RTi_Home/...E=Lakeport+Dam

while the hour by hour lake level can be found here
http://www.des.state.nh.us/RTi_Home/...+Winnipesaukee

As to when the lake is low enough to be "normal" ... good question and I was just wondering that myself. Looking at Bizer's graph I'd say that when the lake drops about another 6" it would be in the range of normal levels. Kinda hard to argue for NWS at that point. Personally I'll be very happy when it drops 6". Anyone know what the level was when the NWZ was lifted in '98 ? I guess I could look it up ....

On another note LG had suggested an automatic NWZ anytime the lake was above 505' so perhaps another 0.2' might be sufficient ?


EDIT : ooops that's a 1/2 ft marking on Bizer's chart so make that 6" not 12".

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

MJP, very good post....you are right on with your comments.......

Now I am new here and trying not to blast people.....and of course at the momment can't even tell you who made the comment....but someone in this thread, posed the question of why not just take a seasonal dock out. Well for those that have never put a dock in or out let me just say....it is not that easy. I would have loved to have taken my dock out....as welll as my nieghbors (my aunt and uncles) but....I can't do it be myself....I have to get help to help me, which is usually not a problem....but to ask someone to give up thier weekend to help me.....and then be left to ask the same person to help me a few weeks later....come on...

For a situation that happens so seldom....people should just grow up....and realize that once or twice in thier lives they may not be able to what they want when they want..............

That was me that suggested taking the dock out. Just trying to be realistic. If you want to watch your property get wrecked for three days instead of doing something about it, it's certainly your prerogative. I honestly hope the damage was minimal. I didn't cause any of it, I wasn't there.

[Misty Blue]

Here is a trick that I use.

When the Lake is high and waves threaten the decking on my dock I pull the canoe on to the dock and fill it and some stragically placed trash cans with water. They hold the dock down and are easy to empty when the Lake returns to normal.

I do this for my out of state neighbors as well, except for the guy four doors down who doesn't like my dog. He crossed a line!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by MJP

Most people who have permanent docks have winter circulators. These are simply machines that keep the water moving, do no harm to the environment, and keep ice from forming around these docks in winter. Even these are no match for Mother Nature, however. Even the most sturdily built dock with multiple circulators cannot battle against ice floes. A few years back one of my neighbors, who has a very sturdy dock and circulators, stood there and watched a big chuck of ice during ice-out take away 1/2 his u-dock in seconds. That was over $5,000 in damage in a blink of an eye. There is simply nothing anyone can do when nature takes its course. So, I wish people would stop trying to blame shore owners and scold them for not having sturdy docks.

As for floods and waves... Like ice, we can't control or predict flooding. No one ever saw this perhaps-once-in-a-lifetime type of situation coming, not even the weathermen. We do the best we can with the money we have to keep our docks from letting go and causing public danger. No one could predict the kinds of beatings our docks would take last fall and now again this spring. But, the thing is, there are NO MACHINES that can stop wave action, and this CAN BE CONTROLLED by people, so it should have been.

So, please stop criticizing us and realize we are as much concerned about public safety and danger to wildlife as we are about our own property damage, maybe even more. A dock can be rebuilt, but a child getting hurt while tubing (yes, they did it in the fruit salad of debris right in front of our house on Sunday) or a loon nest with eggs destroyed just so someone can get an adrenaline rush, is unthinkable.

Hope this is the last time I have to reiterate this...

You can roll your eyes at me all you want but if you continually sustain damage to you dock you really ought to consider making it removable. Same for your neighbor unless they have $5000 to throw away every few years. I spend a lot of time on another lake and every year we put the dock in and take the dock out. The dock has survived for 18 years and has plenty of life left. I doubt the 24'x6' main dock plus the 4'x8' extension cost more than $3000 to build, including the wheels on which it rolls (which make it easily removeable). It can be put in and taken out by one person and uses nothing but "off the shelf" hardware that's widely available around the lake. It's also modular and can be expanded in size with no added difficulty. I am not criticizing or scolding you, just trying to offer a suggestion.

I was not out there tubing in the debris or making wakes at your place this weekend.

If you are expecting people to behave themselves out of the goodness in their hearts, you are bound for disappointment. Most people are not very considerate. You can complain about people making wakes on this forum and call the MP forever and I can assure you the wakes and erosion will continue as always. Instead of complaining, I suggest doing something to help yourself. You are blessed with the luxury of living in one of the most beuatiful places on this earth, yet you come here looking for sympathy when you have to deal with some of the occasional downsides of lake living. I'll save my sympathy for folks that dealt with "real" flooding issues; folks in NH/MA whose homes were destroyed by the recent rains, folks who survived the recent tsunami, or the Hurricane survivors down south.

[Winni]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I was not out there tubing in the debris or making wakes at your place this weekend.

If you are expecting people to behave themselves out of the goodness in their hearts, you are bound for disappointment. Most people are not very considerate.
I'll save my sympathy

So, what is the point here?

I never accused you of tubing in front of my house...where did you get that idea from? Wow! Talk about mis-reading!

How naive do you think I am? I am so discouraged about people having "goodness in their hearts" I could throw up. Just look at what happened with HB162! But, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to get people to understand the harm they do to nature and others. To stop would be to give up, and I'm betting you already figured out I'm not one to give up easily.

I never once asked for your or anyone else's sympathy. I asked for your, and everyone else's understanding and consideration of the situation and said over and over it was not just about personal property, but more importantly about public safety and the preservation of wildlife and the natural surroundings...or did you just conveniently choose to skip that part in my postings?

Joke's on you: I do not have a permanent dock! In fact, I never said in any of my postings that I did. My neighbors, who I was also concerned about, do. In fact, all we have and all that was bouncing around, was the deck at the water's edge we connect our removable dock to. We can't remove the extension; that part is permanent and could be easily replaced, though it could have been a hazard in the water had it let loose. What saved it was that our removable dock sections and all the metal poles it uses were piled on top of that section. The waves were so heavy, however, even with all that weight...and it is A LOT...the extension, which is well set in rocks and land, was still bouncing around.

Put your "sympathy" wherever you want. That doesn't make hurting others, including wildlife and people who aren't smart enough to stay off the Lake when there is an unusual situation like this, right. Who cares where you put your sympathy? I do care where you put your brain, however.

I'm so sick of this. I don't want to keep going around this. If people chose to be naive about reality then just go ahead and be so; I'm not foolish enough to think I can change everyone, but if I can just get even one person to stop and take a second look at the harm they might be doing at any time they choose to use the Lake, then I've accomplished something. Whether others judge my writing to be worthwhile or not, I really don't care. If I'm negatively judged, so what; getting kudos is not why I write. If you actually care about the world, then, well, "Thanks". If you don't, just remember that old phrase, "What goes around, comes around."

Furthermore, if you do care about New Hampshire, then do something; don't just talk. I suggest joining the Forest Society, the NH Lakes Association, WinnFABS, anything that actually makes a difference. Yes, I do feel sorry for the hurricane victims and people all over the world who suffer, but I live here, so I'm trying to do something about here.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by MJP

So, what is the point here?

I never accused you of tubing in front of my house...where did you get that idea from? Wow! Talk about mis-reading!

How naive do you think I am? I am so discouraged about people having "goodness in their hearts" I could throw up. Just look at what happened with HB162! But, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to get people to understand the harm they do to nature and others. To stop would be to give up, and I'm betting you already figured out I'm not one to give up easily.

I never once asked for your or anyone else's sympathy. I asked for your, and everyone else's understanding and consideration of the situation and said over and over it was not just about personal property, but more importantly about public safety and the preservation of wildlife and the natural surroundings...or did you just conveniently choose to skip that part in my postings?

Joke's on you: I do not have a permanent dock! In fact, I never said in any of my postings that I did. My neighbors, who I was also concerned about, do. In fact, all we have and all that was bouncing around, was the deck at the water's edge we connect our removable dock to. We can't remove the extension; that part is permanent and could be easily replaced, though it could have been a hazard in the water had it let loose. What saved it was that our removable dock sections and all the metal poles it uses were piled on top of that section. The waves were so heavy, however, even with all that weight...and it is A LOT...the extension, which is well set in rocks and land, was still bouncing around.

Put your "sympathy" wherever you want. That doesn't make hurting others, including wildlife and people who aren't smart enough to stay off the Lake when there is an unusual situation like this, right. Who cares where you put your sympathy? I do care where you put your brain, however.

I'm so sick of this. I don't want to keep going around this. If people chose to be naive about reality then just go ahead and be so; I'm not foolish enough to think I can change everyone, but if I can just get even one person to stop and take a second look at the harm they might be doing at any time they choose to use the Lake, then I've accomplished something. Whether others judge my writing to be worthwhile or not, I really don't care. If I'm negatively judged, so what; getting kudos is not why I write. If you actually care about the world, then, well, "Thanks". If you don't, just remember that old phrase, "What goes around, comes around."

Furthermore, if you do care about New Hampshire, then do something; don't just talk. I suggest joining the Forest Society, the NH Lakes Association, WinnFABS, anything that actually makes a difference. Yes, I do feel sorry for the hurricane victims and people all over the world who suffer, but I live here, so I'm trying to do something about here.

The sole point of my posts was to point out the absurdity of whining on the internet instead of protecting one's property. Posting on here about how inconsiderate people are, how greedy the politicians are, and how unresponsive the MP is, does absolutely nothing to help preserve anyone's property or the health of the lake. I THINK A LAKEWIDE NWZ is a good idea right now. But it did not happen so I'm trying to be realistic and offer a solution.

Tell me more about what you are trying to do here. I see lots of empty words and little action. As a lake front land owner, you have vastly more power to stop erosion than I do. What have you done?

Joke's on me huh? I don't think smashed up docks are funny. Maybe irresponsible, but not funny.

Perhaps you missed the news, WinnFABS actually failed to make a difference. HB162 did not pass, but I'm not really sure what that failed bill has to do with this discussion. As far as I know, there have been no high speed accidents during the flooding.

I never felt you were accusing me of making wakes or tubing in front of your house. Just pointing out that you need not condsider me the same type of person that would do that just because you disagree with my thoughts on what constitutes reasonable actions to take to prevent erosion. You have my understanding and consideration. I am not part of the problem.

Perhaps nothing can be done to help during this flood. For those that suffer damage now, I ask: What are your plans to prevent the same type of damage 7 or so years from now when the next flood happens? Whining 7 years from now will have the same effect then as it has now.

[Moultonborolifeguard]

Originally Posted by MJP

Most people who have permanent docks have winter circulators. These are simply machines that keep the water moving, do no harm to the environment, and keep ice from forming around these docks in winter. Even these are no match for Mother Nature, however. Even the most sturdily built dock with multiple circulators cannot battle against ice floes. A few years back one of my neighbors, who has a very sturdy dock and circulators, stood there and watched a big chuck of ice during ice-out take away 1/2 his u-dock in seconds. That was over $5,000 in damage in a blink of an eye. There is simply nothing anyone can do when nature takes its course. So, I wish people would stop trying to blame shore owners and scold them for not having sturdy docks.

As for floods and waves... Like ice, we can't control or predict flooding. No one ever saw this perhaps-once-in-a-lifetime type of situation coming, not even the weathermen. We do the best we can with the money we have to keep our docks from letting go and causing public danger. No one could predict the kinds of beatings our docks would take last fall and now again this spring. But, the thing is, there are NO MACHINES that can stop wave action, and this CAN BE CONTROLLED by people, so it should have been.

So, please stop criticizing us and realize we are as much concerned about public safety and danger to wildlife as we are about our own property damage, maybe even more. A dock can be rebuilt, but a child getting hurt while tubing (yes, they did it in the fruit salad of debris right in front of our house on Sunday) or a loon nest with eggs destroyed just so someone can get an adrenaline rush, is unthinkable.

Hope this is the last time I have to reiterate this...

Your actually wrong about the docks with the circulators. My dock doesn't have any circulator near it during the winter. It uses a machine to stop wave action. Its called a break water. It just gets iced up completely every year. In the last 7 years we've had one 2x6 break because of the ice, and we are on the broads. Also I would maintain that peoples children have a lot better chance of getting hurt tubing from falling off going to fast, hitting bouys or other objects during normal conditions than debris caused by the high water. If your really worried about the danger than maybe we should just ban all water activities all together according to you just to be safe. Also those PWCs that were bothing you so much put out little to no wake. They almost certainly put out less wake than a bigger boat out at 600 feet. I would know I own and use one. I virtually garuntee, that you hate them when they are over 150' from shore during any normal summer if they are in front of your house. Instead of haivng the government spend more of my tax money trying to control people via MP why don't you just relax. The water level is plummeting rapidly now and in a few days with a little wind the water will be much lower and much less debris free. O well to bad looks like there'll be no NWZ this summer.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Moultonborolifeguard

Instead of haivng the government spend more of my tax money trying to control people via MP why don't you just relax.

We can't relax if individuals such as yourself are swamping our beaches with your selfish actions. I mean, come on, why is it so hard to slow down for a few days or weeks if it helps everyone enjoy themselves? I really don't care if you boat or don't, your attitude is the problem, along with a lot of others here. I sided with the go fast crowd on HB162, but this weekends actions have started to change my mind.

You expect us to put up with all the inconvenience but can’t be bothered to do anything yourselves. We could build walls, sandbag, or the like. But you could slow down FOR A WEEKEND! I’m not some tree hugger, or environmental nazi, just a guy who wants to live and let live. But I’m also not going to let somebody else’s good time ruin mine.

So the next time one of you decides to go blowing past my beach ignoring the 600' NWZ ask yourself this question, if I’m “too lazy” to build a wall or put up sandbags, am I too lazy to pull all the debris out of the water I’ve found on my beach? Bet that slows you down. If not then stop by and we can discuss it in person, I've been flagging down people all week to no avail and maybe we can share our points of view.

[Woodsy]

Folks..

Its getting a bit contentious here, and there is no need for it. Everybody needs to look at the BIG picture, not just thier particular slice of it.

The reality of the situation is that Lake Winnipesaukee is THE biggest economic engine for NH. There has to be a balance between the interests of the waterfront property owners, businesses, and the general public. Unfortunately you cannot please everyone. Revenues are down due to a lackluster winter tourist season especially around Lake Winnipesaukee and we all have to pay for the flood damage down in southern NH. The $$$ have to come from somewhere. The powers that be decided that it was not in the best interests of the state (general public) to mess with the economic engine that is Lake Winnipesaukee, a compromise was reached and thus we have a 600' NWZ.

I think the 600' NWZ was a fair compromise... had this event occured later in the season when boat traffic is much heavier, say after the kids were out of school, I have no doubt that it would have been a lake-wide NWZ.

I do sympathize with the property owners whose property is seeing some erosion and whose docks are getting bashed a bit because of the high water & boat traffic. You guys & gals are getting thrown under the bus, no doubt about it. However, you are a very small but vocal percentage of the general population, with many of you citizens of other states. The $$$ have to come from somewhere to make up the revenue shortfall. Would you like to see an increase in your property tax to cover this shortfall? If the tax was temporary, say it only went up another $1 per thousand for 1 year? I doubt anyone will would seriously entertain that idea. So where is the money supposed to come from to make up the shortfall and pay for the flooding? Does someone have any better ideas?

Tourism drives the NH Economy. You start messing around with that and pretty soon some dock damage & shoreline erosion will be the least of your problems.

The Dam Operators in Lakeport are draining the lake as quickly as possible. In a week or so all will be close to normal.

Woodsy

PS: For the record I saw very few performance boats out this weekend. It seemed to be moslty fish boats and runabouts. I did see a few big cruisers. At Braun Bay on saturday it was all cruisers & runabouts with only 5-6 performance boats. The docking at the NASWA was similar.

[Moultonborolifeguard]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

We can't relax if individuals such as yourself are swamping our beaches with your selfish actions. I mean, come on, why is it so hard to slow down for a few days or weeks if it helps everyone enjoy themselves? I really don't care if you boat or don't, your attitude is the problem, along with a lot of others here. I sided with the go fast crowd on HB162, but this weekends actions have started to change my mind.

You expect us to put up with all the inconvenience but can’t be bothered to do anything yourselves. We could build walls, sandbag, or the like. But you could slow down FOR A WEEKEND! I’m not some tree hugger, or environmental nazi, just a guy who wants to live and let live. But I’m also not going to let somebody else’s good time ruin mine.

So the next time one of you decides to go blowing past my beach ignoring the 600' NWZ ask yourself this question, if I’m “too lazy” to build a wall or put up sandbags, am I too lazy to pull all the debris out of the water I’ve found on my beach? Bet that slows you down. If not then stop by and we can discuss it in person, I've been flagging down people all week to no avail and maybe we can share our points of view.

Actually this summer I haven't been boating much at all yet, and certainly haven't broken any rules or swamped anyones property. I was arguing more against the attitude presented by some of the people here. I have no problem staying far away from shore or going slower. I can understand people don't want their property wrecked. I do have a problem with people who basiclly want a NWZ as an excuse for not having boat traffic in front of their house as seems to be evident in a number of people here.

[ossipeeboater]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

We can't relax if individuals such as yourself are swamping our beaches with your selfish actions. I mean, come on, why is it so hard to slow down for a few days or weeks if it helps everyone enjoy themselves? I really don't care if you boat or don't, your attitude is the problem, along with a lot of others here. I sided with the go fast crowd on HB162, but this weekends actions have started to change my mind.

You expect us to put up with all the inconvenience but can’t be bothered to do anything yourselves. We could build walls, sandbag, or the like. But you could slow down FOR A WEEKEND! I’m not some tree hugger, or environmental nazi, just a guy who wants to live and let live. But I’m also not going to let somebody else’s good time ruin mine.

So the next time one of you decides to go blowing past my beach ignoring the 600' NWZ ask yourself this question, if I’m “too lazy” to build a wall or put up sandbags, am I too lazy to pull all the debris out of the water I’ve found on my beach? Bet that slows you down. If not then stop by and we can discuss it in person, I've been flagging down people all week to no avail and maybe we can share our points of view.

the issues out there this weekend weren't caused by go fast boats they were caused by inconsiderate people. I live in a no wake zone and truthfully would rather have the boats come through at 70 that 3-4 mph over no wake speed putting up the biggest wake they could. That was the issue with HB162 it addressed somethng that wasn't the cause of the issues on the lake. I boat winni 10-12 days per year and am on Ossipee about 45 days a year and in the last 6 years I've been out there I haven't had 1 issue with boats going too fast but have multiple issues per day with people vioalting the NMW and the 150 foot rules.

[twins]

I hate to interrupt such a spirited exchange of ideas (and keep this thread alive!), But I purchased one of the twin islands (Gem Island) in Melvin Bay over the winter and have been concerned about the status of the dock. We were planning on leaving from Florida to go to the island for the summer right when the rains hit but have delayed our trip as I'm sure our dock was under a foot of water.

We're hoping to leave at the end of next week, and would like to know if there is a dock to tie our boat to.

If anyone is out on the lake and in the area, could you take a look and let us know, I would appreciate it.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Moultonborolifeguard

Your actually wrong about the docks with the circulators. My dock doesn't have any circulator near it during the winter. It uses a machine to stop wave action. Its called a break water.

Breakwaters are only used in certain instances, depending on the direction you are facing and the distance of open, unobstructed water. Many docks on the lake use circulators, I would dare say that there are more permanent docks on the lake without breakwaters than with. For instance where we are located there are only a few breakwaters on the side of Mark facing Governer's but most of the island has permament docks using circulators.

Some even use circulators with breakwaters. Breakwaters these days are getting harder and harder to permit through DES.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Tir Na Nog

I just got back to the Boston after a weekend up at the Lake. We did get out on the boat both Saturday and Sunday. We boat out of Wolfeboro. I saw very few boats following the No Wake rule. Nor did it seem to me that anyone at Goodhue hawkins was advising boaters of the rule. Saturday was a little windy and there were not as many boats out when we were at around 4, but even in Wolfeboro Bay the boats were popping right up to speed and pushing a wake as soon as they got away from the docks. On Sunday, there were may more boats out and even less compliance. We motored over to Alton Bay and as we came to the area of Echo Point (where I think it would be tough to keep 600 feet from either shore) we saw all of these boats coming out at headway speed and I thought at least there the word was out. A little further in the Bay I saw why. There was a MP boat cruising out. CLearly noncompliance was not just a lack of knowledge. I saw one boat passing all the others at headway speed, probably not even following the 150 foot rule as to other boats, and he immediately powered down when he saw the MP boat, which I had hoped would be pulling him over. There seems very limited enforcement of the rules. Has NH ever considered something similar to the Coast Guard Auxiliary to help out on the lake? Auxiliary volunteers have been very helpful to the Coasties with little expense as they are volunteers.

Except for Goodhue, which I didn't see, your observations match mine.

Sunday was somewhat windier than today and Saturday, and did a better job of "covering up the evidence". (Many boats could spread a big wake and go faster+ than headway). Today was calm with somewhat better compliance, but full of exhaust >>koff<< >>koff << fumes , like most calm weekend days.

It seems that the 600' rule was neglectful of those dock owners without a breakwater which, in my neighborhood, is about 95% (without breakwaters). Remember,
"The 600' Rule Was a Compromise of Competing Interests", which were tourism and...and...and...I forgot the other one.

There was a Marine Patrol Auxiliary but was disbanded, according to a 2002 letter written to the Granite State News following a hit&run fatality. The writer, from Tuftonbboro, appeared upset that the MP Auxiliary's work—restricted to a floating advisory role—went under-appreciated.

BTW: Today offered an opportunity to put out water-filled garbage cans on the "high" side of my dock that had developed from last week's heavy winds and high water. Thanks mostly to a boat towing a tube, the affected dock end-piling appears to have nearly "settled back in"!

(Now if the governor can just raise the lake about another 4 inches, I should be able to get it perfectly level).

[Winni]

Originally Posted by foster

mjp, it sounds to me that you might never be happy or content around people having a good time in ways that you do not approve of. so why don't you move to a nice secluded place with no one around ? you cant change other people by complaining, you can only change your own attitude.

I did move to a place like that almost 20 years ago, but then people like you showed up. Your avatar says it all...then there's mine...