Kayak Legislation

[thinkxingu]

No on fees and flags. Unnecessary burdens and the $10 cost will be eaten by administrative costs with close to zero percent chance of enforcement.

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[radar4401]

I agree with the wasted administration costs. I put it with all the other loony laws they want to put into law. What are you going to do with visitors? A big disincentive to come to NH.

[MAXUM]

Link to some of the bills under consideration including the aforementioned.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/pol...152e0fb16.html


As I read some of this stuff I often times wonder why this stuff gets serious consideration when you look at some of the actual challenges that are of ongoing concern to the citizens of this state. Keep that in mind as you read some of this nonsense, and I guarantee you that when these sponsors are running for election they never mention the stuff they actually are spending their time on. Both political parties are guilty of this and it's pretty disgusting.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Link to some of the bills under consideration including the aforementioned.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/pol...152e0fb16.html


As I read some of this stuff I often times wonder why this stuff gets serious consideration when you look at some of the actual challenges that are of ongoing concern to the citizens of this state. Keep that in mind as you read some of this nonsense, and I guarantee you that when these sponsors are running for election they never mention the stuff they actually are spending their time on. Both political parties are guilty of this and it's pretty disgusting.

What an incredible waste of time money and resources.


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[tis]

It makes you wonder if they don't have something better to do than sit and think up more laws, rules and regulations.

[MAXUM]

I'd like to see a bill making it a Class A felony to waste the state's resources introducing useless legislation. Most of that short list would qualify.

[Kamper]

Two talking points on fees...

$10 is the camel's nose under the tent. More to come.

If more folks put ID stickers on their kayaks, the MP would know where to start looking, and for whom, the dozen or so times a year they find empties in the water. This may have muted the calls for formal registration.

I know several people who have multiple kayaks because 2nd 3rd 4th... hand they are cheap. The will moan about registering all of them. I would too but since I don't have one, I would like them to pay something for the services they are using IE state ramps and access points, parks, rescue and patrol services. Especially the MP chasing down the GoFast that wake-washed their kid in violation of no-wake laws and common sense.

[Winilyme]

I've got three bright kayaks that we've been using on the lake for five years with no issues. As for taxing yakkers for using ramps, parks, rescue and patrol services, seriously, what percentage of those costs could possibly be attributable to kayaks? Mind you, I have no problems with my motorboaters registration.

Yet, there are irresponsible kayakers out there just as there are irresponsible motorboaters. And in both cases they are the primary drivers of a need to enforce. Because enforcing requires resources, if anything, increase fines for irresponsible behavior to cover any funding needs. Don't tax folks that are using the lake in a low impact, environmentally sensitive manner and in my experience are nearly always respectful to their surroundings.

By the way, I can't say I know the stats so maybe I'm missing something here. But I would wager that there are a lot more bike (the peddle version) related accidents than there are with kayaks. Are they going to require annual bike registration now too?

Ridiculous.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

I've got three bright kayaks that we've been using on the lake for five years with no issues. As for taxing yakkers for using ramps, parks, rescue and patrol services, seriously, what percentage of those costs could possibly be attributable to kayaks? Mind you, I have no problems with my motorboaters registration.

Yet, there are irresponsible kayakers out there just as there are irresponsible motorboaters. And in both cases they are the primary drivers of a need to enforce. Because enforcing requires resources, if anything, increase fines for irresponsible behavior to cover any funding needs. Don't tax folks that are using the lake in a low impact, environmentally sensitive manner and in my experience are nearly always respectful to their surroundings.

By the way, I can't say I know the stats so maybe I'm missing something here. But I would wager that there are a lot more bike (the peddle version) related accidents than there are with kayaks. Are they going to require annual bike registration now too?

Ridiculous.

Agreed. If they're short on cash, I'd have no problem with an increased registration on my sailboat. But a kayak fee of $10 is just ridiculous--they have virtually zero environmental or enforcement expenses

[tis]

I was just reminded that people whose boats are not registered in NH don't contribute to the costs of using the lake. Excellent point don't you think?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by tis

I was just reminded that people whose boats are not registered in NH don't contribute to the costs of using the lake. Excellent point don't you think?

Don't forget NH boats don't pay a fee in other states, except most notably Lake George NY.

Dave

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Don't forget NH boats don't pay a fee in other states, except most notably Lake George NY.

Dave

But if we are going to argue that kayaks need to pay a fee to contribute to the services their owners use, then we must argue that boats the come in from another state should contribute, don't you agree?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

Reciprocity

Not arguing with you ......... but what if everyone who works in Massachusetts who lives up here had to purchase a car registration for down there.

Some things in life just don't seem to be fair. But they kinda are. There are a lot more cars crossing the border towards mass 5 days a week than there are boats

Don't forget...for those of us that have the pleasure of working in MA and living in NH we still pay MA state income tax. That's not nothing!

[Barney Bear]

Perhaps the next watercraft to require registration will be paddleboards. OUCH!

[barefootbay]

How about canoes and row boats ?

[fatlazyless]

By paddling, rowing or sailing (a sailboat under 12') you really save a lot on the annual registration, motor, gasoline, and insurance by not having any annual registration, motor, gasoline, or insurance. The cost for annual NH motorboat registration starts at about $50/year.

So, paying $10/year is very small potatoes compared to what you save by going "human power."

In addition, the law says it applies to paddle/row vessels launched from a public launch ramp, and does not apply to paddle/row vessels launched from private property.

.... NH needs to keep on paddling!

[tis]

At one time out of state registered boats could not operate on the lake.

[MAXUM]

So this is interesting.... if you read the bill being proposed. This does not appear to be a mandatory "fee". Instead it establishes a "donation" program for operators of non motorized boats. The F&G shall administer it.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill...xtFormat=amend

Not sure where the author of the Union Leader article got his information, clearly didn't he actually read the bill.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

So this is interesting.... if you read the bill being proposed. This does not appear to be a mandatory "fee". Instead it establishes a "donation" program for operators of non motorized boats. The F&G shall administer it.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill...xtFormat=amend

Not sure where the author of the Union Leader article got his information, clearly didn't he actually read the bill.

Some years ago the gas tax refund form was changed to allow donations to these same two funds (Navigation safety and Lake preservation). As much as people whined then that these functions (Milfoil and MP) were underfunded, not many people stepped up with a (tax deductible) donation to support these issues. We could still use more MP and less milfoil, right?
As long as these two issues continue to be problematic, there will be attempts to find better funding, mostly from those who benefit, rather than the general taxpayer, which is mostly business taxes since individuals pay little or no state taxes as such (Yeah, Yeah. I know. Interest and dividends. And this year, they tried to add capital gains).

[tis]

Originally Posted by Descant

Some years ago the gas tax refund form was changed to allow donations to these same two funds (Navigation safety and Lake preservation). As much as people whined then that these functions (Milfoil and MP) were underfunded, not many people stepped up with a (tax deductible) donation to support these issues. We could still use more MP and less milfoil, right?
As long as these two issues continue to be problematic, there will be attempts to find better funding, mostly from those who benefit, rather than the general taxpayer, which is mostly business taxes since individuals pay little or no state taxes as such (Yeah, Yeah. I know. Interest and dividends. And this year, they tried to add capital gains).

I agree, and I don't think any lake related taxes have decrease yet we seem to have less MP coverage on the lake. Money doesn't always get used for what is intended.

[8gv]

Last month I noticed several leaves floating in the lake.

They had fallen from one of my trees.

This week I got a notice in the mail telling me to register them!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Last month I noticed several leaves floating in the lake.

They had fallen from one of my trees.

This week I got a notice in the mail telling me to register them!

Was that before or after you got the note from DES telling you that tree cannot be cut down or trimmed?

[Descant]

This bill has been brought up in the past, or something similar, and has always died. However, there is some validity to the issues brought up by more and more kayaks. Not on the lakes so much, but the ones who test themselves on spring river rapids and don't pass the test. Fish and Game and MP still have to do search and rescue or recovery.
As someone who pays power boat registration fees that benefit ramps and access that I don't use, I'm happy to have yakkers contribute to these facilities. However, it looks like, after $3 overhead, the money goes 50% to Navigation safety fund (MP) and the other 50% of this fee goes to lake restoration and preservation (e.g. milfoil control). Nothing for ramps?

The big hangup is, nobody has any idea how many kayaks are out there. It's hard to justify a new fee when you don't have any idea how much money it will generate, unless you just like new fees. If it doesn't bring in enough, just raise it next year.
Here's the bill: http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_sta...txtFormat=html

[chaseisland]

As I've said before, live fee or die.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by chaseisland

As I've said before, live fee or die.

That ship sailed into the abyss about a decade and a half ago.

[chaseisland]

Was a state employee for 46 years. Thus I'll claim my right to complain about fees.

[Lin]

First off our family owns 7 kayaks and 2 canoes. 7 out of 9 are brightly colored. And all of our life jackets are bright red or yellow. I would not be for a mandatory fee but as the real bill to be introduced offers, I could picture donating a fee but don’t feel it should be required because this bill is not specific to lake Winni but it would be all lakes; rivers and ponds regardless of size across the entire state. That would make enforcement ridiculous. Also that is not a small flag the other bill wants, it is 4’ We don’t have motors (elect/gas) on any of ours but I know in MA you have to have a canoe registered to use an engine and I can see that.

I also think that a lot of people that kayak and canoe give to various non-profit groups like loon preservation; lakes region conservation trust, New Hampshire Lakes Association, lake Winnipesaukee association and similar across the state, I do.

Crazy bill cause I could see bikes next like someone else said. Besides New Hampshire is the live free or die state.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by tis

It makes you wonder if they don't have something better to do than sit and think up more laws, rules and regulations.

That's exactly the problem. Most legislators measure themselves on how much new legislation they introduce, and they promote the bills/laws they created when they run for re-election.

Wouldn't it be great if we started voting for the ones who DON'T create new laws/rules, and even better, repeal many of the useless ones already there.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

That's exactly the problem. Most legislators measure themselves on how much new legislation they introduce, and they promote the bills/laws they created when they run for re-election.

Wouldn't it be great if we started voting for the ones who DON'T create new laws/rules, and even better, repeal many of the useless ones already there.

Absolutely. And if they get in and create more laws/rules/taxes, then we vote them out next time. Incumbents seem to keep getting voted back in. Most don't have any idea what they have done. It's all about name recognition I think.