Results!!!!! No Wake

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Moultonborolifeguard

Instead of haivng the government spend more of my tax money trying to control people via MP why don't you just relax.

We can't relax if individuals such as yourself are swamping our beaches with your selfish actions. I mean, come on, why is it so hard to slow down for a few days or weeks if it helps everyone enjoy themselves? I really don't care if you boat or don't, your attitude is the problem, along with a lot of others here. I sided with the go fast crowd on HB162, but this weekends actions have started to change my mind.

You expect us to put up with all the inconvenience but can’t be bothered to do anything yourselves. We could build walls, sandbag, or the like. But you could slow down FOR A WEEKEND! I’m not some tree hugger, or environmental nazi, just a guy who wants to live and let live. But I’m also not going to let somebody else’s good time ruin mine.

So the next time one of you decides to go blowing past my beach ignoring the 600' NWZ ask yourself this question, if I’m “too lazy” to build a wall or put up sandbags, am I too lazy to pull all the debris out of the water I’ve found on my beach? Bet that slows you down. If not then stop by and we can discuss it in person, I've been flagging down people all week to no avail and maybe we can share our points of view.

[Woodsy]

Folks..

Its getting a bit contentious here, and there is no need for it. Everybody needs to look at the BIG picture, not just thier particular slice of it.

The reality of the situation is that Lake Winnipesaukee is THE biggest economic engine for NH. There has to be a balance between the interests of the waterfront property owners, businesses, and the general public. Unfortunately you cannot please everyone. Revenues are down due to a lackluster winter tourist season especially around Lake Winnipesaukee and we all have to pay for the flood damage down in southern NH. The $$$ have to come from somewhere. The powers that be decided that it was not in the best interests of the state (general public) to mess with the economic engine that is Lake Winnipesaukee, a compromise was reached and thus we have a 600' NWZ.

I think the 600' NWZ was a fair compromise... had this event occured later in the season when boat traffic is much heavier, say after the kids were out of school, I have no doubt that it would have been a lake-wide NWZ.

I do sympathize with the property owners whose property is seeing some erosion and whose docks are getting bashed a bit because of the high water & boat traffic. You guys & gals are getting thrown under the bus, no doubt about it. However, you are a very small but vocal percentage of the general population, with many of you citizens of other states. The $$$ have to come from somewhere to make up the revenue shortfall. Would you like to see an increase in your property tax to cover this shortfall? If the tax was temporary, say it only went up another $1 per thousand for 1 year? I doubt anyone will would seriously entertain that idea. So where is the money supposed to come from to make up the shortfall and pay for the flooding? Does someone have any better ideas?

Tourism drives the NH Economy. You start messing around with that and pretty soon some dock damage & shoreline erosion will be the least of your problems.

The Dam Operators in Lakeport are draining the lake as quickly as possible. In a week or so all will be close to normal.

Woodsy

PS: For the record I saw very few performance boats out this weekend. It seemed to be moslty fish boats and runabouts. I did see a few big cruisers. At Braun Bay on saturday it was all cruisers & runabouts with only 5-6 performance boats. The docking at the NASWA was similar.

[KonaChick]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I think you may have taken a well-deserved sarcastic response to MJP as an attack on all land owners by me. It was not. Don't flatter yourself, you are not envied as much as you think.

Lets put my "occasional downside" comment back in perspective. The context in which it was written was thus: Compared to folks losing homes, loved ones, and lives to hurricanes, floods and tsunamis, your erosion and dock problems are indeed just an occasional downside of choosing to live next to water. I know it probably seems like the end of the world when your dock gets busted up, but it's nothing that cannot be repaired and things could be vastly worse. If you were truly responsible, you would have already been prepared for the high water and the dock would be just fine.

If you truly cared about wildlife on the lake, you'd NEVER own a house on the lake. That land of yours was stolen from those poor furry little animals who can no longer call it home and are probably very, very sad every time they think about it. Especially the cute ones becuase somehow, I doubt snapping turtles feel sadness. A true nature lover would turn the place into a human-free animal sanctuary. Please, let us know how that turns out.

If in this context, you still think your situation is an "outrage", give FEMA a call. Maybe they will declare your property a distaster area and bail you out.

Everytime you reply your true self shines through like a beacon.

[Moultonborolifeguard]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

We can't relax if individuals such as yourself are swamping our beaches with your selfish actions. I mean, come on, why is it so hard to slow down for a few days or weeks if it helps everyone enjoy themselves? I really don't care if you boat or don't, your attitude is the problem, along with a lot of others here. I sided with the go fast crowd on HB162, but this weekends actions have started to change my mind.

You expect us to put up with all the inconvenience but can’t be bothered to do anything yourselves. We could build walls, sandbag, or the like. But you could slow down FOR A WEEKEND! I’m not some tree hugger, or environmental nazi, just a guy who wants to live and let live. But I’m also not going to let somebody else’s good time ruin mine.

So the next time one of you decides to go blowing past my beach ignoring the 600' NWZ ask yourself this question, if I’m “too lazy” to build a wall or put up sandbags, am I too lazy to pull all the debris out of the water I’ve found on my beach? Bet that slows you down. If not then stop by and we can discuss it in person, I've been flagging down people all week to no avail and maybe we can share our points of view.

Actually this summer I haven't been boating much at all yet, and certainly haven't broken any rules or swamped anyones property. I was arguing more against the attitude presented by some of the people here. I have no problem staying far away from shore or going slower. I can understand people don't want their property wrecked. I do have a problem with people who basiclly want a NWZ as an excuse for not having boat traffic in front of their house as seems to be evident in a number of people here.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Moultonborolifeguard

Your actually wrong about the docks with the circulators. My dock doesn't have any circulator near it during the winter. It uses a machine to stop wave action. Its called a break water.

Breakwaters are only used in certain instances, depending on the direction you are facing and the distance of open, unobstructed water. Many docks on the lake use circulators, I would dare say that there are more permanent docks on the lake without breakwaters than with. For instance where we are located there are only a few breakwaters on the side of Mark facing Governer's but most of the island has permament docks using circulators.

Some even use circulators with breakwaters. Breakwaters these days are getting harder and harder to permit through DES.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

PS: For the record I saw very few performance boats out this weekend. It seemed to be moslty fish boats and runabouts. I did see a few big cruisers. At Braun Bay on saturday it was all cruisers & runabouts with only 5-6 performance boats. The docking at the NASWA was similar.

I second that. Most of the boats that I saw were cruisers or family runabouts. There was considerably less performance boats in the areas that I traveled. For the most part I saw better compliance from the performance boats.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Everytime you reply your true self shines through like a beacon.

Thank you! I do try.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...The sole point of my posts was to point out the absurdity of whining on the internet instead of protecting one's property..."

This site—and the lake's present messy 600' situation—was on television last night.

Think The Governor watches TV news?

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"...There has to be a balance between the interests of the waterfront property owners, businesses, and the general public. Unfortunately you cannot please everyone..."

The state needs to add four more lanes to I-93: Even more businesses, property owners, and "general public" could arrive here, and no business would be allowed to have a lean year. We can even raise the lake level another foot or two every time business suffers a "bad winter". [/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...If you were truly responsible, you would have already been prepared for the high water and the dock would be just fine..."

My dock was rebuilt above 1984's high water. And, when my dock was rebuilt, the vast majority of boats were NOT being dragged to Winnipesaukee on 4-wheeled trailers.

(Or six wheels, for that matter).

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Thank you! I do try.

Careful Dave, that batch of tar and feathers they whipped up for me has your name on it.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by jrc

Careful Dave, that batch of tar and feathers they whipped up for me has your name on it.

Thanks, I'm pretty thick skinned, or maybe just ambivalent. My turn to be the scapegoat. All the erosion is my fault.

I'd be much less sarcastic about this subject if folks said something like: "I filled sand bags and made temporary dams to protect my property, but I was unable to avoid damage caused by wakes", instead of "I called the MP 20 times today, I joined WinnFABs, I complained on the Internet, and I STILL have erosion". Ugh, hello... do something besides picking up the phone, writing checks and typing. It's YOUR land, be a person of action; the world loves people of action.

Somehow, pointing this out makes me as (or perhaps more) evil than the folks actually causing the erosion.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Thanks, I'm pretty thick skinned, or maybe just ambivalent. My turn to be the scapegoat. All the erosion is my fault.

I'd be much less sarcastic about this subject if folks said something like: "I filled sand bags and made temporary dams to protect my property, but I was unable to avoid damage caused by wakes", instead of "I called the MP 20 times today, I joined WinnFABs, I complained on the Internet, and I STILL have erosion". Ugh, hello... do something besides picking up the phone, writing checks and typing. It's YOUR land, be a person of action; the world loves people of action.

Somehow, pointing this out makes me as (or perhaps more) evil than the folks actually causing the erosion.

Ah, you've graduated from build better docks to sandbags, I see progress. I haven't heard a good reason not have a lakewide NWZ, other than it will interfere with the "economic engine". Come to think of it, construction is an economic engine, builders should adopt some of these arguements.

Anyway, building walls, be they of concrete or sand seems to be ridiculous to me when a little courtesy will solve the problem. Oh well.

BTW, I think dams, even temporary ones are frowned upon by DES.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by ITD

Ah, you've graduated from build better docks to sandbags, I see progress. I haven't heard a good reason not have a lakewide NWZ, other than it will interfere with the "economic engine". Come to think of it, construction is an economic engine, builders should adopt some of these arguements.

Anyway, building walls, be they of concrete or sand seems to be ridiculous to me when a little courtesy will solve the problem. Oh well.

BTW, I think dams, even temporary ones are frowned upon by DES.

As a boater and being on the waterfront I've got a foot in "both houses" that seem to be emerging in this discussion. I think 600' is not enough distance to dimish wake size effectively* but to the extent that it may have kept people off the lake it did work somewhat. I think that the people with boats that throw large wakes should be more considerate and either leave them at the dock or do NWS wherever but I don't expect everyone to do that. Some people are just plain ignorant of their wakes, others ignorant of the effect of the lake level and still others just don't give a ... hmmm ... hoot. Given that realitity and the fact the Mother Nature doesn't abide by any of our rules I put the the barrels back on the dock, just like I did last fall. I have a neighbor a few docks down that watched me do this 2 weeks ago and did nothing. My dock is intact and his is demolished. And I'll add it was the constant pounding from the waves of last weeks storms that did it, not this weekends boat wakes, so we all need to get a little perspective here. Given last falls floods I can muster only mild sympathy for the landowners who didn't learn from that lesson and do something to protect their assets. People who put in their seasonal docks and didn't fasten down the decks (as GN mentions here) get no sympathy from me. They and the large wakers are both in the wrong.

*I'm remotivated to make a "Winni Wave-o-meter" to record wave and wake size and then do some tests to measure wake reduction vs distance. Then I can forward the data to Concord so they have something solid to base their decisions on.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by ITD

Ah, you've graduated from build better docks to sandbags, I see progress. I haven't heard a good reason not have a lakewide NWZ, other than it will interfere with the "economic engine". Come to think of it, construction is an economic engine, builders should adopt some of these arguements.

Anyway, building walls, be they of concrete or sand seems to be ridiculous to me when a little courtesy will solve the problem. Oh well.

BTW, I think dams, even temporary ones are frowned upon by DES.

Progress or just a lack of reiteration? I still don't advocate poorly built docks even if you think poorly built docks are somehow progress. I don't claim to have all the answers but I cannot imagine how shoddy workmanship or lack of care for one's property has ever been the right thing to do

I suspect everyone agrees that courtesy will solve the problem. There isn't enough though. That's the reality that needs to be dealt with. Protecting your property hardly seems ridiculous to me. I'd swear it's common sense.

If the law (through the DES) does not allow you to protect your property and allows others to damage it, well, I guess you're hosed. You've obviously done your homework and realized nothing can ever be done. Sad to say it seems that giving up is the right thing to do in this case Perhaps I'm just too optimistic.

[KonaChick]

Dave R..you seem to think all our docks are made of lincoln logs....I don't get it.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

As a boater and being on the waterfront I've got a foot in "both houses" that seem to be emerging in this discussion. I think 600' is not enough distance to dimish wake size effectively* but to the extent that it may have kept people off the lake it did work somewhat. I think that the people with boats that throw large wakes should be more considerate and either leave them at the dock or do NWS wherever but I don't expect everyone to do that. Some people are just plain ignorant of their wakes, others ignorant of the effect of the lake level and still others just don't give a ... hmmm ... hoot. Given that realitity and the fact the Mother Nature doesn't abide by any of our rules I put the the barrels back on the dock, just like I did last fall. I have a neighbor a few docks down that watched me do this 2 weeks ago and did nothing. My dock is intact and his is demolished. And I'll add it was the constant pounding from the waves of last weeks storms that did it, not this weekends boat wakes, so we all need to get a little perspective here. Given last falls floods I can muster only mild sympathy for the landowners who didn't learn from that lesson and do something to protect their assets. People who put in their seasonal docks and didn't fasten down the decks (as GN mentions here) get no sympathy from me. They and the large wakers are both in the wrong.

*I'm remotivated to make a "Winni Wave-o-meter" to record wave and wake size and then do some tests to measure wake reduction vs distance. Then I can forward the data to Concord so they have something solid to base their decisions on.

I'm in both camps also, I chose not to get my boat which was scheduled to be launched last Sunday. My docks have held up well (pipe dock with wood decks that are nailed together). Erosion hasn't been that bad but you can see a fine cloud of silt in the water after every series of waves from wakes. Agree with you on the float away docks and also on the large wakers. As I said before the cruisers and so called GFBL boats seemed to be the most courteous as far as wakes my observations. The "runabouts" that were out either had no clue or didn't care.

Let me know if you need any help with the "Winni Wave-o-meter", sounds like a 6 cocktail project to me.

If we follow the MP directors logic, no one should ever have to worry about tsunamis again.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I suspect everyone agrees that courtesy will solve the problem. There isn't enough though. That's the reality that needs to be dealt with.

Bingo, I suspect the useless proclaimation of a 600' NWZ was the result of a poll watching puffed suit in the NH corner office. Good leaders are hard to find. Tough decisions are hard to make.

Originally Posted by Dave R

Protecting your property hardly seems ridiculous to me. I'd swear it's common sense.

Let's try this one more time, I think we agree on the basic concepts, we just don't agree as to the extent to which they should be carried out. I want to try an analogy here. Suppose your house is robbed. You've taken reasonable precautions, dead bolts, locked your windows, alarm system still you got robbed. I come along and say "Pfft, Dave, there is much more you could have done, this is your fault" . "Why you should have barred all your windows, and installed steel plates over your doors. Dug a moat around your home, filled it with alligators and water and installed a draw bridge." "Then you will be safe and I will listen to your complaint about being robbed, otherwise, suck it up and be quiet."

You, Dave, say to yourself, "Well he does have a point, there is more I could have done." "However, if I bar up my windows, and install steel plates over my door, my quality of life will diminish". "If I dig a moat, fill it with alligators and build a draw bridge, my neighbors won't be too happy, the natural beauty of my lot will be destroyed. Never mind the issue of alligator dung all over my lawn." "At first glance, ITD's bars and moats seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But who wants to live next to a moat?"

All right, I have too much time on my hands.........

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by ITD

Bingo, I suspect the useless proclaimation of a 600' NWZ was the result of a poll watching puffed suit in the NH corner office. Good leaders are hard to find. Tough decisions are hard to make.




Let's try this one more time, I think we agree on the basic concepts, we just don't agree as to the extent to which they should be carried out. I want to try an analogy here. Suppose your house is robbed. You've taken reasonable precautions, dead bolts, locked your windows, alarm system still you got robbed. I come along and say "Pfft, Dave, there is much more you could have done, this is your fault" . "Why you should have barred all your windows, and installed steel plates over your doors. Dug a moat around your home, filled it with alligators and water and installed a draw bridge." "Then you will be safe and I will listen to your complaint about being robbed, otherwise, suck it up and be quiet."

You, Dave, say to yourself, "Well he does have a point, there is more I could have done." "However, if I bar up my windows, and install steel plates over my door, my quality of life will diminish". "If I dig a moat, fill it with alligators and build a draw bridge, my neighbors won't be too happy, the natural beauty of my lot will be destroyed. Never mind the issue of alligator dung all over my lawn." "At first glance, ITD's bars and moats seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But who wants to live next to a moat?"

All right, I have too much time on my hands.........

Point taken.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Dave R..you seem to think all our docks are made of lincoln logs....I don't get it.

Have to admit, I don't get this either. Lincoln logs???

If you mean that I think all docks are easy to remove, I don't believe that. The association docks at our place in Maine are put in by crane. The docks we need to personally move are heavy, but on wheels. Very slick design, never any weather damage.

[Weirs guy]

I think at the end of the day the problems aren't with the boaters on this forum, as by your own claims most of you have stayed home. But telling us property owners to stop whining and relax isn't going to make it any better then us telling you boaters to slow down if their boats are still at the dock. I thought someone had proposed boaters self policing each other with air horns like in '98? I’d use one, but I doubt anyone would listen to one coming from shore. The MP is useless (I watched one MP boat Sunday night from 6:45 – 7:15 float off the Weirs town docks WATCHING boats break the NWZ). I’d fight city hall and the DES about a breakwater or such, but since the issue was only this weekend (high water, boats going to fast too close to shore) I don’t think the expense is justified.

So with those options gone, and my wife insistent that the paint ball gun will shoot father then 600’ , I’m open to suggestions.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

I think at the end of the day the problems aren't with the boaters on this forum, as by your own claims most of you have stayed home. But telling us property owners to stop whining and relax isn't going to make it any better then us telling you boaters to slow down if their boats are still at the dock. I thought someone had proposed boaters self policing each other with air horns like in '98? I’d use one, but I doubt anyone would listen to one coming from shore. The MP is useless (I watched one MP boat Sunday night from 6:45 – 7:15 float off the Weirs town docks WATCHING boats break the NWZ). I’d fight city hall and the DES about a breakwater or such, but since the issue was only this weekend (high water, boats going to fast too close to shore) I don’t think the expense is justified.

So with those options gone, and my wife insistent that the paint ball gun will shoot father then 600’ , I’m open to suggestions.

The next flood is the one I'd be planning for. Statistically, there's plenty of time to apply for permits if you think you can design something that'll help.

My potato cannon is good for just about 600 feet using Aqua Net hair spray as propellent and Russetts as ammo. I can send you the plans.

[KonaChick]

Originally Posted by jrc

Careful Dave, that batch of tar and feathers they whipped up for me has your name on it.

JRC that would be a waste of a perfectly good batch of tar and feathers...especially since I plan to use them to patch up the holes in my rickety dock.

[Airwaves]

This is my second, and last post on this topic.

I thought the topic dealt with wake and enforcement.

One last time I will suggest that transparency is the great equalizer!

Will one of the newspapers, daily or weekly, publish Marine Patrol calls, responses etc. like they do with town police and fire depts? Maybe even the Manchester Union Leader since the MP has boats in all state waterways and along the coast?

If the "log" is published and made pubic *BTW the log IS a public document* then we can stop all this name calling crap!

I thought the name calling went away with the end of the 45/25 legislation, apparently I am wrong.

If I am wrong about the animosity spilling over from the 45/25 issue then this is my last post.

[jrc]

good to see a sense of humor

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...Even when everyone complies with the law, bad things happen..."

Question: How much of Lake Winnipesaukee's floating debris, floating lumber, runoff, mud, erosion, waves, wakes, and stressed waterfront structures did you actually witness this past week?

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

"...*I'm remotivated to make a "Winni Wave-o-meter" to record wave and wake size and then do some tests to measure wake reduction vs distance. Then I can forward the data to Concord so they have something solid to base their decisions on..."

The makings of a very sensitive "Winni Wave-O-Meter" is sitting on your dock! (That being water-filled garbage cans.)

If you noticed, the wakes impacting your dock produce sympathetic concentric rings on the water's surface. The rings are most intense towards the center and will sometimes send up a jet of water!

To take advantage of those rings, you can set up a low-mass float with a lever attached. This will transmit the vibrations to a suitable display to demonstrate the intensity of wake impacts. It can even record the exhaust pulses from a noisy boat—and before the boat comes into sight! (And why I've long-suggested a seismometer be used to measure exhaust noise).

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Dave R

My potato cannon is good for just about 600 feet using Aqua Net hair spray as propellent and Russetts as ammo. I can send you the plans.

Hmm.......

And speaking of the media helping spread the word, did anyone else catch WMUR's 6 a.m. broadcast yesterday when they announced that the NWZ was 60' out? No wonder people from out of town don't know whats going on!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by ITD

{snip}
Let me know if you need any help with the "Winni Wave-o-meter", sounds like a 6 cocktail project to me.

Your wording is so apropos I wanted to make a system without the typical mechanical float so I looked for some electronic method. Long story short, I came across the link below as the simplest way (minus the RF parts) to do what I wanted*.

http://www.merl.com/papers/docs/TR2002-21.pdf

------------ CAUTION GEEK ALERT CAUTION -------------------
-- Look away now or you'll be "Dilbert-ized" and be unable to have children or anything recognizable as a life --

*So what did I want ... well I wanted to be able to have a system that recorded the highs and lows of the water level for a week unattended. That meant some storage device like the ubiquitous USB flash "drives" we see. Better yet I wanted to record enough measurements in fine enough increments (+/-5' in 8 bits = ~0.5" resolution) to be able to reconstruct the each wave moment by moment (? 10 Hz, more ?), not just record the highest high, the lowest low. I wanted to be able to time stamp the measurements and lastly it had to be cheap enough that several could be built w/o breaking my "frugal" nature So a simple micro-controller (uC) like in the URL, a parallel plate capacitor that sits partial submerged, a reference cap, a battery, a USB drive, some switches and an LCD display for user input/output and the mechanical housing, PWB, etc and you have it ... the Winni Wave-o-meter. Clamp it to your dock post or perhaps anchor it offshore and once a week swap USB drives. Review the data on your PC using Excel or such. Next time people are talking about wave or wake heights we might actually have some facts to back them up Biggest problem (for me) is programming the uC to write to the USB drive. I'll have to ask "Mee" for some help there.

[Belmont Resident]

Some observations from this Sundays ride.

We left the Lakeport end or Paugus Bay, only 2 other performance boats to be seen all the way up 2 the channel. Paugus bay was full of family boats all jockeying for the ability to get up on plane while pushing the headway speed thing in essence making a larger wake than if they were on plane. In the channel everyone was in a rush to go nowhere. Boaters driving up the sides in an attempt to cut in further up.
Took us ½ hour to get through the channel. Went out around eagle island noticed almost all runabouts with families and some cruisers. Once out in the open we got up to about 60, went by the Witches past Welch Island and ran over to Trexlers marina where we stopped to wait for another boat. On the way over we noticed one carver making about a 4’ wake.
While drifting we were passed by a fishing boat within 50’.
We spent time helping a disabled boat then left for home. We took the route between Bear and Mark Island traveling at headway until we got past Mark Island.
We were passed by several boats all traveling within 100’while on plane.
One particularly close call by a grey sided Formula cruiser from Lakeport marina. He passed within 50’ of us while within 100’ of the tip of Mark Island then we witnessed him and every other boat around us blow the NWZ off Governors Island.
The rest of the trip back to the dock was uneventful.
Not once did we see a performance boater do anything wrong, not that we saw many of them out there anyways. 95% of the boats were runabouts or cruisers.
This was my son’s last ride for 2 years; he leaves to go over seas this month to fight a war I do not believe in for a president I despise.

[ossipeeboater]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

We can't relax if individuals such as yourself are swamping our beaches with your selfish actions. I mean, come on, why is it so hard to slow down for a few days or weeks if it helps everyone enjoy themselves? I really don't care if you boat or don't, your attitude is the problem, along with a lot of others here. I sided with the go fast crowd on HB162, but this weekends actions have started to change my mind.

You expect us to put up with all the inconvenience but can’t be bothered to do anything yourselves. We could build walls, sandbag, or the like. But you could slow down FOR A WEEKEND! I’m not some tree hugger, or environmental nazi, just a guy who wants to live and let live. But I’m also not going to let somebody else’s good time ruin mine.

So the next time one of you decides to go blowing past my beach ignoring the 600' NWZ ask yourself this question, if I’m “too lazy” to build a wall or put up sandbags, am I too lazy to pull all the debris out of the water I’ve found on my beach? Bet that slows you down. If not then stop by and we can discuss it in person, I've been flagging down people all week to no avail and maybe we can share our points of view.

the issues out there this weekend weren't caused by go fast boats they were caused by inconsiderate people. I live in a no wake zone and truthfully would rather have the boats come through at 70 that 3-4 mph over no wake speed putting up the biggest wake they could. That was the issue with HB162 it addressed somethng that wasn't the cause of the issues on the lake. I boat winni 10-12 days per year and am on Ossipee about 45 days a year and in the last 6 years I've been out there I haven't had 1 issue with boats going too fast but have multiple issues per day with people vioalting the NMW and the 150 foot rules.

[Weirs guy]

ossipeeboater, let me try and be more specific. I’m not a boater so I’ll stay away from using terms that I don’t understand. My issue this week has been with "boats" (motorized means of transportation traveling on water) that were well within 600' of my beach making waves/wakes/tsunami's that caused water to wash over my little beach, my kids, wife and me. My words were “go fast crowd”, not “go fast boats”.

I was opposed to hb162 because I personally detest any law that takes away from personal freedoms. However, if this weeks behavior is the norm that some of the hb162 supporters deal with, then I can see there reasoning for supporting the bill. If I were a boater I would be concerned that behavior like this past weekends could lead to another speed limit bill.

HOWEVER, I’m not trying to restart the speed limit debate by any means. I think Dave R hit the nail on the head in another topic when he said that your observations from this weekend depended on where you live. I’ve never had issues with wakes when the lake is at normal levels, other people do. It would be great if we could cut the lake up into “regions” with different requirements (this half is a NWZ, that quarter has a speed limit, this sections wide open racetrack), but that’s not practical for every square inch of the lake.

So I’m back to a potato and paint ball guns.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

{snip}
So I’m back to a potato and paint ball guns.

How about "The Beast" from these guys ...
http://www.waterballoonlaunchers.com/

[Weirs guy]

Now we're talking!

[twins]

I hate to interrupt such a spirited exchange of ideas (and keep this thread alive!), But I purchased one of the twin islands (Gem Island) in Melvin Bay over the winter and have been concerned about the status of the dock. We were planning on leaving from Florida to go to the island for the summer right when the rains hit but have delayed our trip as I'm sure our dock was under a foot of water.

We're hoping to leave at the end of next week, and would like to know if there is a dock to tie our boat to.

If anyone is out on the lake and in the area, could you take a look and let us know, I would appreciate it.

[Islander2]

twins,

Which one is Gem, the one closer to Melvin Village, or the one further away? Will see what the weather conditions are when I arrive later today, and could take a cruise by, if the rain lets up.

[twins]

It is the furthest from Melvin Bay, the northwestern twin. Thanks.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Your wording is so apropos I wanted to make a system without the typical mechanical float so I looked for some electronic method. Long story short, I came across the link below as the simplest way (minus the RF parts) to do what I wanted*.

http://www.merl.com/papers/docs/TR2002-21.pdf

------------ CAUTION GEEK ALERT CAUTION -------------------
-- Look away now or you'll be "Dilbert-ized" and be unable to have children or anything recognizable as a life --

*So what did I want ... well I wanted to be able to have a system that recorded the highs and lows of the water level for a week unattended. That meant some storage device like the ubiquitous USB flash "drives" we see. Better yet I wanted to record enough measurements in fine enough increments (+/-5' in 8 bits = ~0.5" resolution) to be able to reconstruct the each wave moment by moment (? 10 Hz, more ?), not just record the highest high, the lowest low. I wanted to be able to time stamp the measurements and lastly it had to be cheap enough that several could be built w/o breaking my "frugal" nature So a simple micro-controller (uC) like in the URL, a parallel plate capacitor that sits partial submerged, a reference cap, a battery, a USB drive, some switches and an LCD display for user input/output and the mechanical housing, PWB, etc and you have it ... the Winni Wave-o-meter. Clamp it to your dock post or perhaps anchor it offshore and once a week swap USB drives. Review the data on your PC using Excel or such. Next time people are talking about wave or wake heights we might actually have some facts to back them up Biggest problem (for me) is programming the uC to write to the USB drive. I'll have to ask "Mee" for some help there.

Oh my, you are serious about this, as with most good ideas, someone usually (but not always) has thought of it before. So, being the lazy engineer (mechanical) that I am I googled wave sensor and came up with this link, http://www.oceansensorsystems.com/pr...htm#WaveLogger looks like just what the doctor ordered and those cocktails taste much better when you don't have to work while drinking them. In fact, you can even download their logging software. I wonder if they would let us "evaluate" a couple for a few weeks?

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by ITD

Oh my, you are serious about this, as with most good ideas, someone usually (but not always) has thought of it before. So, being the lazy engineer (mechanical) that I am I googled wave sensor and came up with this link, http://www.oceansensorsystems.com/pr...htm#WaveLogger looks like just what the doctor ordered and those cocktails taste much better when you don't have to work while drinking them. In fact, you can even download their logging software. I wonder if they would let us "evaluate" a couple for a few weeks?

Looks like just what the doctor ordered ! I didn't see a price list but I'll make the leap and guess it's more than I'd care to pay (like that's a leap) Good info though, sounds like 30 Hz is a better sampling rate. So let's see 30 x 60 secs x 60 mins x 24 hrs x 7 days * 1.25 FF = ~ 23 MB of storage. No problem there. I may actually have to make one, if only to get (back) into uC programming and to learn the tools. Many fun and useful widgets can be made from them.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Looks like just what the doctor ordered ! I didn't see a price list but I'll make the leap and guess it's more than I'd care to pay (like that's a leap) Good info though, sounds like 30 Hz is a better sampling rate. So let's see 30 x 60 secs x 60 mins x 24 hrs x 7 days * 1.25 FF = ~ 23 MB of storage. No problem there. I may actually have to make one, if only to get (back) into uC programming and to learn the tools. Many fun and useful widgets can be made from them.

Warning geek alert!

I've got a couple 8051's and the assembler from the late 80's, but it's on 5.25 disks. I even have a few UV erasable eproms. Let me know where to send them. My wife keeps telling me to throw away all this stuff, but I knew it would come in handy some day. I wonder can you address 23 MB with an 8051, might need to bank swap.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ITD

"...Erosion hasn't been that bad but you can see a fine cloud of silt in the water after every series of waves from wakes..."

Effects of our present high-water episode won't be noticed right away.

With our series of historical high-water extremes, embankments are washed of silt, mud, duff, sand, and will reshuffle the rocks that line the shores. The grasp that trees have on the shoreline are weakened, and trees one after the other, will fall into the lake. Sunlight, now newly admitted to the shallows, will promote long strands of algae—something that wasn't present when I first saw the lake.

This tree was photographed as it's a red pine that's succumbing at its roots and will eventually fall into the lake. Red pines seem to suffer erosion worse than white pines, and red pines in particular are declining in numbers around the lake.

There may be no better natural filter for lakewater than matted pine needles. The gradual loss of pines will likely result in greater velocity of runoff into the lake, resulting in more soil loss, faster rates of high water extremes, "improved" milfoil habitat, and more algae.