Island property prices

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by hemlock

It seems to me that Island property prices have gone through the roof! As I look at listings it seems that 2-3 bedroom cottages are being priced in the 4-500 k range with some fancy places up to 900 k. Is this temporary or is it going to be the new normal?

As an island property owner, my unscientific observation is that island property values were significantly stagnant since the early 2000s until the last 3-4 years. So perhaps this is just the market catching up. There seems to have been a bit more island inventory this past year than the past couple years, which suggests that the higher prices are here to stay (vs. low inventory years where supply/demand would seem to drive up prices).

I would be interested to hear what realtors think. My perception has been island prices have been either stagnant or increasing over the last 20 years, but don’t think I’ve seen any indication that island prices have ever dropped significantly, even around the 2008 bust. If accurate, that would suggest the current prices are the new normal.

If the recent tax assessments in Moultonborough and Tuftonboro are any indication (huge increases on island properties this year), you’re not the only one taking notice of the higher prices...

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

if the recent tax assessments in Moultonborough and Tuftonboro are any indication (huge increases on island properties this year), you’re not the only one taking notice of the higher prices...

Tuftonboro used fuzzy math for their recent assessments of island properties. I don't think they have any idea of the amount of abatements they'll be receiving from island owners by the March 1st deadline.

[MAXUM]

There has also been a monumental shift in what is being built on the islands too. These island contractors can accommodate just about anything these days. So what you are seeing is old simply constructed "camps" being replaced by modern day houses with any amenity your wallet can pay for. That is really pushing prices north bound too.

[Descant]

The inventory is low, in part because properties "sell" within the family. As long as the next generation can afford the taxes, nobody wants to sell. They may sell their mainland home in Kansas and move to Oklahoma, then to Rhode Island, all with no sentiment. But, no, no. Don't sell the camp.
The tax assessment for our camp on the south side of Welch hasn't changed much over the last several years, although the tax bill creeps up. Looking at the tax cards, the variations from one place to the next, vary based on frontage. Owning any back land does not change total value a lot.
You're right about $450-$500 K, at least for asking prices. You'd need to look at the "closed" pages of MLS to see actual sales price.
Add to the purchase price of the camp, the cost of a boat, often two, and mainland docking. The islands that have an association or restricted dock and parking are more valuable.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There has also been a monumental shift in what is being built on the islands too. These island contractors can accommodate just about anything these days. So what you are seeing is old simply constructed "camps" being replaced by modern day houses with any amenity your wallet can pay for. That is really pushing prices north bound too.

I just hope there is a ceiling to what the market will support for island properties. I can’t believe that there is a huge contingency of buyers willing to pay close to $1 million or above for a seasonal property that is only accessible by boat. The great part of island properties, in my view, has been, at least historically, that non-millionaires could have their own secluded part of the lake. Sure, it requires a boat, some (or a lot) of DIY prowess, and hauling everything/everyone to/from by boat, but that and the secluded nature of island living is what I actually value most about our camp.

I know that we can’t entirely prevent this type of gentrification from spreading to the islands as mainland property prices continue to sky rocket. I just hope that as many of these properties as possible stay as true “camps.”

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

I just hope there is a ceiling to what the market will support for island properties. I can’t believe that there is a huge contingency of buyers willing to pay close to $1 million or above for a seasonal property that is only accessible by boat. The great part of island properties, in my view, has been, at least historically, that non-millionaires could have their own secluded part of the lake. Sure, it requires a boat, some (or a lot) of DIY prowess, and hauling everything/everyone to/from by boat, but that and the secluded nature of island living is what I actually value most about our camp.

I know that we can’t entirely prevent this type of gentrification from spreading to the islands as mainland property prices continue to sky rocket. I just hope that as many of these properties as possible stay as true “camps.”

There are aspects of being on an island that will never change and those characteristics kept prices reasonable for those willing to live with the logistics of being out there. What it really comes down to is whether or not the ambiance, quiet, relative privacy and seclusion becomes it's most valuable quality. In a world where you can't seem to get away from it all, I've found that island time never changes much and nobody can just stop by and visit.

Values will go up over time, but I think relative to the mainland waterfront market it probably won't change a whole lot.

[dva]

Wait to see the taxes after Bernie !!

[Sundancer320]

Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.

Everything works in cycles... patience will get you the home you want at a 30-50% discount in the coming years. It really doesn't matter who's in office. Low interest rates has created this bubble.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.

What I find interesting, and frustrating, is the astronomical deficits that President Trump and the Republicans (who had a majority in the House and Senate for two years) have created. We will have to deal with it - and the economy will suffer at some point.

My guess is that island, and waterfront property in general, will be largely unaffected. There is a core population that is doing very well and is well positioned to weather an economic downturn. Those who are overextended and unable to make ends meet will have to sell at a loss, but my guess is that will be the exception rather than the rule. Even if people are forced to sell, I think there will be more buyers than property available, keeping prices where they are.

As for Bernie, like him or not, at least we know where he stands. Do I like what he stands for? Not really...

Bottom line, IMHO, is property values on the water will remain consistent and/or continue to rise. There is not going to be a dramatic decline in prices regardless of who is in power. If I'm wrong, I'm well positioned to step in and buy, but I'm not willing at current prices. I'm happy with what I have. I don't view my property as an investment to cash in, but instead a lifestyle choice to enjoy.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Garcia

What I find interesting, and frustrating, is the astronomical deficits that President Trump and the Republicans (who had a majority in the House and Senate for two years) have created. We will have to deal with it - and the economy will suffer at some point.

I love how liberals rewrite history. The federal deficit doubled under Bush II (roughly $4 Trillion to $8 Trillion), and then doubled under Obama ($8 Trillion to $16 Trillion). Certainly both parties have had a hand in the federal deficit, but to claim that Trump and Republicans caused it is simply wrong.

By the way, I love how the left now is so concerned about the deficit now that the economy is supercharged. I didn't hear much from them between 2008 and 2016.

[Biggd]

Well this thread has gone in the crapper!

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Well this thread has gone in the crapper!

Not too long ago a post of mine was deleted, evidently, because it was deemed political.
Now we have this thread?
I'm insulted!!!

[tis]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

Not too long ago a post of mine was deleted, evidently, because it was deemed political.
Now we have this thread?
I'm insulted!!!

I don't think admin is as strict as he used to be.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think admin is as strict as he used to be.

I think it's more that the post in reference was in isolation and, at very best, barely connected to the forum.

The above political discussion relates directly to the economy and, as a result, real estate values.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Garcia]

I deleted the post I made that was off topic. I think island property (and waterfront in general), boat slips, valet, and parking spaces will continue to be in high demand and thus prices will rise regardless of a downturn. They are finite resources that will continue to be in demand - and no matter what happens with the economy, there will be people who can pay.

Personally, I don't think island or shorefront property is a good investment as many things offer a much better rate of return. People who are buying are those who want to enjoy the lake.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Major

I love how liberals rewrite history. The federal deficit doubled under Bush II (roughly $4 Trillion to $8 Trillion), and then doubled under Obama ($8 Trillion to $16 Trillion). Certainly both parties have had a hand in the federal deficit, but to claim that Trump and Republicans caused it is simply wrong.

By the way, I love how the left now is so concerned about the deficit now that the economy is supercharged. I didn't hear much from them between 2008 and 2016.

Just to be clear I have always been concerned about the deficit. My point is that the Republican Party was the party of fiscal responsibility all through the Obama years. That has been thrown out the window. Look at Mick Mulvaney - a Tea Party deceit hawk a decade ago who now says, basically, deficits don't matter. You are correct in that Liberals have changed their view and are now concerned with the defect. At the same time, Conservatives, too, have flipped their viewpoint on deficits. Deficits were the cornerstone of their platform but now don't matter. I'd be willing to bet that when a Democrat is elected President (which will happen at some point), deficits will no longer matter to them but will be important to Republicans.

I'm not voting for Bernie as I think he is the wrong person to lead our country. I do have respect for him, though, as he has held true to his beliefs through his career.

Sorry to go off on a tangent...

[Major]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Just to be clear I have always been concerned about the deficit. My point is that the Republican Party was the party of fiscal responsibility all through the Obama years. That has been thrown out the window. Look at Mick Mulvaney - a Tea Party deceit hawk a decade ago who now says, basically, deficits don't matter. You are correct in that Liberals have changed their view and are now concerned with the defect. At the same time, Conservatives, too, have flipped their viewpoint on deficits. Deficits were the cornerstone of their platform but now don't matter. I'd be willing to bet that when a Democrat is elected President (which will happen at some point), deficits will no longer matter to them but will be important to Republicans.

I'm not voting for Bernie as I think he is the wrong person to lead our country. I do have respect for him, though, as he has held true to his beliefs through his career.

Sorry to go off on a tangent...

I agree it doesn't matter. The reason, in my opinion, is that the left doesn't care and the conservatives cannot do anything about it. They were tired of beating their heads against the wall. The best we can hope for is to contain it.

[codeman671]

Leaving politics out of it... Here is my take:

We sold an island property last season that was on the higher end price-wise and tried to buy something more economical. We made offers on 2 properties and could not come to terms on either. One of them had some issues which we were willing to work around and made what I felt was a fair offer mid season. The sellers didn't even counter, they snubbed their noses at us even though they had no other activity in the pipeline. At the end of the season they did get a deal on the property and it closed for about $15k more than my offer. I was pretty irritated being that we were close enough that we could have made it work. I believe it was sold by the listing agent though instead of through a buyers agent. I'll get to that later.

The other one had been on the market for ages. We tried a few different times to work with the sellers on it and were stonewalled by their agent, who was working frantically in the background to find a buyer of their own, which they finally did. My last offer was higher than what they took elsewhere, but again, sold by the listing agent.

Sold by the listing agent to their own buyer= full commission

A few agents out there, one in particular, really work in their own interest and not the interest of their client. They will pass on a well qualified buyer working with in agent to take a deal that is solely theirs, sometimes for less money. And some are extremely lazy and wont even get on a boat to go out for showings.

I think the season in general was slow for sales, some of the properties that sold were leftover properties from the previous year or two. There was a lot of overpriced material that did not go anywhere and will probably pop back on this season. Some of the more unique properties were the ones that sold, such as entire islands. Ours was a very sweet (not biased at all ) property and we had an offer within 48 hours of listing. We were also priced fairly.

We will be back at it this spring, looking to buy.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Leaving politics out of it... Here is my take:

We sold an island property last season that was on the higher end price-wise and tried to buy something more economical. We made offers on 2 properties and could not come to terms on either. One of them had some issues which we were willing to work around and made what I felt was a fair offer mid season. The sellers didn't even counter, they snubbed their noses at us even though they had no other activity in the pipeline. At the end of the season they did get a deal on the property and it closed for about $15k more than my offer. I was pretty irritated being that we were close enough that we could have made it work. I believe it was sold by the listing agent though instead of through a buyers agent. I'll get to that later.

The other one had been on the market for ages. We tried a few different times to work with the sellers on it and were stonewalled by their agent, who was working frantically in the background to find a buyer of their own, which they finally did. My last offer was higher than what they took elsewhere, but again, sold by the listing agent.

Sold by the listing agent to their own buyer= full commission

A few agents out there, one in particular, really work in their own interest and not the interest of their client. They will pass on a well qualified buyer working with in agent to take a deal that is solely theirs, sometimes for less money. And some are extremely lazy and wont even get on a boat to go out for showings.

I think the season in general was slow for sales, some of the properties that sold were leftover properties from the previous year or two. There was a lot of overpriced material that did not go anywhere and will probably pop back on this season. Some of the more unique properties were the ones that sold, such as entire islands. Ours was a very sweet (not biased at all ) property and we had an offer within 48 hours of listing. We were also priced fairly.

We will be back at it this spring, looking to buy.

Sounds like Island Real Estate.

There are good agents out there and reputable agencies. Unfortunately the listing agents can get in the way of getting a deal done if they so choose even though they are obligated to look out for the best interest of their client not their commission check.

[LFODMatt]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Leaving politics out of it... Here is my take:

We sold an island property last season that was on the higher end price-wise and tried to buy something more economical. We made offers on 2 properties and could not come to terms on either. One of them had some issues which we were willing to work around and made what I felt was a fair offer mid season. The sellers didn't even counter, they snubbed their noses at us even though they had no other activity in the pipeline. At the end of the season they did get a deal on the property and it closed for about $15k more than my offer. I was pretty irritated being that we were close enough that we could have made it work. I believe it was sold by the listing agent though instead of through a buyers agent. I'll get to that later.

The other one had been on the market for ages. We tried a few different times to work with the sellers on it and were stonewalled by their agent, who was working frantically in the background to find a buyer of their own, which they finally did. My last offer was higher than what they took elsewhere, but again, sold by the listing agent.

Sold by the listing agent to their own buyer= full commission

A few agents out there, one in particular, really work in their own interest and not the interest of their client. They will pass on a well qualified buyer working with in agent to take a deal that is solely theirs, sometimes for less money. And some are extremely lazy and wont even get on a boat to go out for showings.

I think the season in general was slow for sales, some of the properties that sold were leftover properties from the previous year or two. There was a lot of overpriced material that did not go anywhere and will probably pop back on this season. Some of the more unique properties were the ones that sold, such as entire islands. Ours was a very sweet (not biased at all ) property and we had an offer within 48 hours of listing. We were also priced fairly.

We will be back at it this spring, looking to buy.

We had a similar situation a few years back but from the other end of the deal. Our agent "had a buyer" and didn't even list our property until we had a written offer in hand. In the end, the deal fell apart (for many reasons - only some of which I blame the agent), and we are happily still in the same property.

Early ice out this season?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by LFODMatt

We had a similar situation a few years back but from the other end of the deal. Our agent "had a buyer" and didn't even list our property until we had a written offer in hand. In the end, the deal fell apart (for many reasons - only some of which I blame the agent), and we are happily still in the same property.

Early ice out this season?

If I had an agent that tried to pull a stunt like that - I'd first sever that relationship real fast. The is no point to even using an agent if they are playing both sides of the deal anyways, they are "supposed" to be a neutral party. So zero value add - unless they will take half the commission. Of course that defeats the purpose.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If I had an agent that tried to pull a stunt like that - I'd first sever that relationship real fast. The is no point to even using an agent if they are playing both sides of the deal anyways, they are "supposed" to be a neutral party. So zero value add - unless they will take half the commission. Of course that defeats the purpose.

Sounds like we are all talking about the same person....

[Woody38]

Back when we lived on Cape Cod there was an agent who had a buyer and didn't actually list the property. The buyer came and offered full price and the seller cancelled the listing. Seller turned around and increased the price considerably. I do believe vest pocket listings became illegal after this. As a broker I have seen almost every kind of trickery imaginable. Some people find it impossible to conduct themselves honestly.

_____________________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Sounds like we are all talking about the same person....

We most certainly are! I'll just leave it at that......

[CaptT820]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

We most certainly are! I'll just leave it at that......

I just had a similar experience with our last transaction involving "that agent".
We had a handshake deal with the owner of the property if he ever sold it. He told the agent to tell us that he had an agreement before the property went public.
The agent never said anything to us, and the property actually made it to the market.
Once we told the seller what was going on he took the listing off the MLS and fired the agent. Extremely shady and unethical behavior by the agent.

Thankfully we got the property.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If I had an agent that tried to pull a stunt like that - I'd first sever that relationship real fast. The is no point to even using an agent if they are playing both sides of the deal anyways, they are "supposed" to be a neutral party. So zero value add - unless they will take half the commission. Of course that defeats the purpose.

Worse than that--agents represent the seller except when explicitly contracted as buyer's agents. This includes the vast majority of agents who help buyers look for houses to buy.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I agree it doesn't matter. The reason, in my opinion, is that the left doesn't care and the conservatives cannot do anything about it. They were tired of beating their heads against the wall. The best we can hope for is to contain it.

As an optimist, I hope we find a solution—I think we can all agree that deficit spending is not good.

I do want to point out, however, that Obama's deficits were created on purpose to aid the American recovery and that they were coming back down until Trump took office.

Finally, to get back to the OP, the strong economy has affected almost everything's prices—I'm looking at having kitchen and bathroom remodels and am being told to hold onto my hat when I get the estimates. My house has almost double in value in 13 years. What I'm most interested in seeing is how much things will "fall" in the next cycle.

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[Biggd]

When interest rates go up the economy will slow down. Not only is the government in extreme debt but Americans are also deep in debt. Everyone has already refinanced their debt at low rates. When rates go up there's no where to go to get cheap money.

[Major]

Yes, it is awesome. It is awesome to reward hard working people who save their money and invest in something when the time is right. Values of lakefront property, or vacation property in general, fluctuate wildly depending on the economy. It's been that way as long as I can remember. Some people buy high and sell low, some people buy low and sell high. It is childish to think that taking advantage of an economic downturn is depriving those individuals who invested high of their rightful reward. Those who bought high are adults and understood the risks involved. It is not our problem that they have to sell for a loss.

My wife and I are planning to take advantage of the next economic downturn, which may not happen for another four years or so. In the meantime, we will continue to save for our winter home in South Florida!

[tbonies]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.

Funny. The Bern (and Warren... and Petey...) is unelectable so no need to worry about his impact on lake property. If beating Trump is the goal, Klobuchar should be the slam dunk candidate. She would beat him like a drum. But... the Democrats have ample opportunity to screw this up, as they usually do.