When does it end? How can it?

[thinkxingu]

People have mentioned a change in schools after this, but, as a teacher, I just don't see it. The biggest shift we may see is the possibility of remote learning to replace snow days, but even that I'm not convinced will happen.

There are many, many problems with online learning, which is why most institutions use it only as supplementary education if at all (college is, of course, where most of it happens).

Once the "daycare" and "homeschool" aspect is entered into the equation, it's an immediate no-go. The percent of parents that could be available/at home for or capable of supporting that type of education is very low.

Also, we know that the social aspect is essential. My students are really struggling with this.

Finally, most parents I know and connect with on town forums are going crazy trying to balance work and school. Because my wife and and I are teachers, we've been able to cut work to the essentials and provide "authentic" (pedagogical code word!) opportunities for learning: for example, my son is learning geometry and measurements, so guess who's laying out the fort we're building?!

Cheers, all.

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[Paugus Bay Resident]

Not sure when or how this will end, but for perspective

Since the early 1900’s, we have survived

- 4 major flu pandemics (68 - 69 Hong Kong flu alone killed 1+ million worldwide)
- Numerous non-flu (polio, Ebola, Zika, SARs, MRSA, Lime Disease, EE, etc., etc.)
- 2 world wars, Cold War, Cuban Missile Crisis, Terrorism, 911, mass shootings, etc.
- A “great” depression, numerous recessions
- A bunch of stuff I’ve probably missed

I’m not dismissing the seriousness of this by any means, but this isn’t the first time and likely not the last. The biggest question to me is what will the lasting changes be.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

I’m not dismissing the seriousness of this by any means, but this isn’t the first time and likely not the last. The biggest question to me is what will the lasting changes be.

+US becomes more self sufficient in manufacturing many things which...
+Creates more manufacturing jobs, which....
+Boosts the economy and tax revenues for infrastructure, social programs, and debt reduction.
+We discover our families and the value of socialization.
+We are better prepared for future pandemics.
+We reduce the instances of other diseases through better sanitization awareness.
+We all become a bit more aware of our dependence on each other and the services provided by many unsung heroes.
+Just maybe, I Hope, we are all a bit more civilized.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Orion, I hope so on all points, but the older I get, the more pessimistic I get

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by Orion

+US becomes more self sufficient in manufacturing many things which...
+Creates more manufacturing jobs, which....
+Boosts the economy and tax revenues for infrastructure, social programs, and debt reduction.

Ain't gonna happen.

No matter what side you are on in the political spectrum. Manufacturing wants the least expensive labor possible. And that is not in the USA.
Those who own stocks - want the stock price higher - and dividends. With virtual no care where items are produced.

Do any reading here ever view the label on their clothing?
Korea, Indonesia, Bangladesh, China, and now Vietnam.

I seek out products Made in USA. But how many go out of their way to do this? Yes, some clothing and products are still made in USA.

Here are some tidbits.

Everything in the LL Bean catalog is made outside the USA. Everything in the LL Bean catalog is imported. The original rubber boots are still assembled in USA - from foreign parts. That's it for LL Bean. I'm old enough to remember that everything in the LL Bean catalog was made in USA.

New Balance has a real factory outlet in Lawrence, MA. And yes, a few of their sneakers are still made in Lawrence, MA. Made in USA.

A M Leonard still makes garden tools made in USA. Go to the local hardware store and you won't find any garden tools made in USA. Yet, one can still purchase all of your garden tools from a company such as A M Leonard.

Walmart. Box fans (square fans). I was in a Walmart a few times and viewed a pallet of box fans. All were made in China. But. The next month there was a pallet of box fans made in USA. Lasko brand box fans are made in USA. Amazingly the price for the China box fans and the Lasko made in USA box fans - was exactly the same. This was not a one shot deal. As I view the box fans over the years. Why doesn't Walmart purchase/sell all of the box fans that are made in USA? Walmart doesn't give a hoot about buying/selling items made in USA. Although Walmart had a multi-million advertising campaign - extolling the virtues of buying American. Next time anyone is in a Walmart store - go look at the box fans and view what county they are made in.

Number 10 white business envelopes. Walmart used to sell a box of 50 (now 40] of Mead - made in USA envelopes. Then Walmart briefly began selling number 10 white envelopes made in China. That didn't last long at Walmart as who wants to lick China glue? Anyone? So Walmart quickly switched to number 10 white envelope made in Mexico. I guess Mexico glue is better for the pallet than China glue. Yet visit any Dollar Tree store and Dollar Tree still sells the Mead - made in USA number 10 white envelopes. Why can't Walmart sell the Mead - made in USA white number 10 envelopes? Same price in both stores. And yes, some envelopes have a peal off self stickng strip.

I recently purchased a new snow blower/thrower. I sought out the brand with an engine made in USA. Sorry. All engines are now made in China or Thailand. No new snow blowers have engine made in USA.

I had the brake rotors (disks) replaced in my car and truck. No brand has rotors made in USA anymore. Can't get any. Made in China, Taiwan, or Mexico. Yes, there are some small companies that do make rotors in the USA - but all of those are for specialty use such as car racing. None for any car or pickup truck made in USA.

"Bring the jobs back" was/is he mantra. Yet few if any products have come back to the USA. I hear on the news that many of the ventilators are wait for it . . . made in China.

The list goes on. But enough for now.

How many take the time to actually seek out USA products?
Yet most will claim to want to "bring the jobs back".

Go figure !

Who wants to lick the glue on envelopes made in China?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Ain't gonna happen.

No matter what side you are on in the political spectrum. Manufacturing wants the least expensive labor possible. And that is not in the USA.
Those who own stocks - want the stock price higher - and dividends. With virtual no care where items are produced.

Do any reading here ever view the label on their clothing?
Korea, Indonesia, Bangladesh, China, and now Vietnam.

I seek out products Made in USA. But how many go out of their way to do this? Yes, some clothing and products are still made in USA.

Great points. In addition to seeking out Made in the USA, though, we must be willing to pay a premium for domestic labor. How many of us are willing to pay 20, 30, 40% for goods made here?

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Great points. In addition to seeking out Made in the USA, though, we must be willing to pay a premium for domestic labor. How many of us are willing to pay 20, 30, 40% for goods made here?

I am. Damned right I am. Get the hell away from depending on the lying theiving, chinese.
Bring our damned production back to the USA at any cost.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Great points. In addition to seeking out Made in the USA, though, we must be willing to pay a premium for domestic labor. How many of us are willing to pay 20, 30, 40% for goods made here?

I imagine that many Americans , and I include myself, would be willing to pay more for goods produced here in the USA. Think of the horrible price we are now paying for our reliance on other countries, particularly China, to manufacture strategic items.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Great points. In addition to seeking out Made in the USA, though, we must be willing to pay a premium for domestic labor. How many of us are willing to pay 20, 30, 40% for goods made here?

Sadly I think paying a premium for USA goods is a luxury not everyone can, or will, afford. It's the same thing with locally grown produce or locally raised meats; they cost more than what you buy at WalMart. And even, which I know is a controversial topic, paying a premium for clean energy - if polluting coal makes cheaper electricity than clean solar, not everyone can or will pay the higher price.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Sadly I think paying a premium for USA goods is a luxury not everyone can, or will, afford. It's the same thing with locally grown produce or locally raised meats; they cost more than what you buy at WalMart. And even, which I know is a controversial topic, paying a premium for clean energy - if polluting coal makes cheaper electricity than clean solar, not everyone can or will pay the higher price.

There's a big difference "can" and "will". If a person is struggling to get by, I'm happy for them to get a low price at WalMart. (Which, BTW, you may remember used to be heavily Made in the USA before becoming a major driver of jobs moving overseas).

But the "will" thing bothers me when those who can afford to pay more for locally sourced goods still place price as paramount. I think part of this is that WalMart, Amazon, and others have persuaded us that we are stupid or saps or getting ripped off if we shop anywhere else.

As others have noted, we are now paying the price for driving cost down as far as possible without concern for other important factors.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

There's a big difference "can" and "will". If a person is struggling to get by, I'm happy for them to get a low price at WalMart. (Which, BTW, you may remember used to be heavily Made in the USA before becoming a major driver of jobs moving overseas).

But the "will" thing bothers me when those who can afford to pay more for locally sourced goods still place price as paramount. I think part of this is that WalMart, Amazon, and others have persuaded us that we are stupid or saps or getting ripped off if we shop anywhere else.

As others have noted, we are now paying the price for driving cost down as far as possible without concern for other important factors.

We're in agreement. Many who want things manufactured here want lower prices more.

[TiltonBB]

President Trump’s top health advisers are developing medical criteria for safely reopening the U.S. economy in coming weeks should trends showing a crest in the coronavirus outbreak hold steady.

Deborah Birx, the immunologist who coordinates the White House virus task force, met into the night Tuesday with health experts, including Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield and Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn.

Notably absent from the late-night discussion were economic and political advisers to the president, along with the leader of the coronavirus task force, Vice President Mike Pence, and his chief of staff, Marc Short.

Excluding the political and economic advisers was a deliberate signal that the White House would continue for now to prioritize health considerations over economic ones, according to three people familiar with the meeting who requested anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Great points. In addition to seeking out Made in the USA, though, we must be willing to pay a premium for domestic labor. How many of us are willing to pay 20, 30, 40% for goods made here?

Good points Professor, but I do believe the pendulum will swing. The manufacturers will seek to avoid risk and there will be a lot of risk going forward with regard to made in China. On top of that, there will be a larger amount of the population that will seek out "Made in USA" (I ALWAYS HAVE). At a minimum, there will be many trying to avoid "Made In China".

There is a lot of hidden cost associated with buying from the lowest cost source. I find it hard to believe that going forward, the US can't use technology to undercut manufacturing costs (with shipping) of of buying from Asia.

Lastly, I'm certain our President will provide incentives to bring jobs back to USA. Instead of a blind stimulus package, lets provide those incentives to budding manufacturers. This will have long-term benefits for us all.

[Susie Cougar]

TheProfessor, The only person that I ever remember that was happy that the glue on their envelopes was from China was George Costanza on Seinfeld.

[tbonies]

Originally Posted by Orion

+US becomes more self sufficient in manufacturing many things which...
+Creates more manufacturing jobs, which....
+Boosts the economy and tax revenues for infrastructure, social programs, and debt reduction.
+We discover our families and the value of socialization.
+We are better prepared for future pandemics.
+We reduce the instances of other diseases through better sanitization awareness.
+We all become a bit more aware of our dependence on each other and the services provided by many unsung heroes.
+Just maybe, I Hope, we are all a bit more civilized.

All this sounds great, but for the first two to happen, will Americans truly be willing to pay more for goods and services? There is a reason that so much of it was shipped to places like China and India, and it wasn't simply for the fun of it.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

People have mentioned a change in schools after this, but, as a teacher, I just don't see it. The biggest shift we may see is the possibility of remote learning to replace snow days, but even that I'm not convinced will happen.

There are many, many problems with online learning, which is why most institutions use it only as supplementary education if at all (college is, of course, where most of it happens).

Once the "daycare" and "homeschool" aspect is entered into the equation, it's an immediate no-go. The percent of parents that could be available/at home for or capable of supporting that type of education is very low.

Also, we know that the social aspect is essential. My students are really struggling with this.

Finally, most parents I know and connect with on town forums are going crazy trying to balance work and school. Because my wife and and I are teachers, we've been able to cut work to the essentials and provide "authentic" (pedagogical code word!) opportunities for learning: for example, my son is learning geometry and measurements, so guess who's laying out the fort we're building?!

Cheers, all.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Plus, let's remember that it's not just relatively strong students from wealthy towns trying to learn at home. Kids who struggle academically in person (like the bottom 50%), struggle even more online. Kids who do not own computers or wifi are at a complete loss.

If your kid was on his way to BC or MIT, I'm sure he's fine with all this academically. But if your kid struggles with math or has a computer held together with band aids and string, this is cutting off his ability to have a chance at college or many careers. (That's not to say every good career requires college, only that every kid should have a chance to go)

[VitaBene]

Fortunately Moultonborough moved to "blizzard bags" and students using iPods a few years back. My youngest is slated to graduate college and start teaching in May so we don't have real world experience with distant learning in town, but they had a little head start.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Fortunately Moultonborough moved to "blizzard bags" and students using iPods a few years back. My youngest is slated to graduate college and start teaching in May so we don't have real world experience with distant learning in town, but they had a little head start.

I would think being prepared to discuss this event would be beneficial to your youngest during the interview process!

Flying, believe it or not, some of my highest achieving students are struggling just as much—I received an email from a brilliant future PA (William & Mary or BU bound) yesterday who thanked me for my virtual lesson as it's the "most normal she's felt in weeks."

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