Where are the statistics...

[garysanfran]

For the "normal", yearly flu? We all got shots for.

The "normal" flu season kills anywhere from 30K to 65K people per year? Historically.

Where are the separate statistics for those cases? I'm thinkin' you can't trust China and you can't trust USA statistics...Actually you can't trust anyone in an election year with a major health issue, or even a minor issue.

Most people will make their decision in November on mailers they get within one week of the vote.

[Mr. V]

"Since January, the CDC reported more than 5,000 influenza-associated deaths."–"

source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...al/3044888001/

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

you can't trust China and you can't trust USA statistics...

Opinion.

This posting should be placed in the COVID-19 section or some political section.

Want to debate the gubmint? Want to debate the "flu" to COVID-19?

Hoaxes? Conspiracy Theories? Obtuse web blogs claiming all sorts of disjointed data, statistics, opinions?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

For the "normal", yearly flu? We all got shots for.

The "normal" flu season kills anywhere from 30K to 65K people per year? Historically.

Where are the separate statistics for those cases? I'm thinkin' you can't trust China and you can't trust USA statistics...Actually you can't trust anyone in an election year with a major health issue, or even a minor issue.

Most people will make their decision in November on mailers they get within one week of the vote.

I'm pretty sure we're in the neighborhood of 100K and still climbing quickly on COVID-19 if that's what you're getting at--well beyond the normal flu that some were referencing several weeks ago.

I agree on the statistics being misunderstood and/or manipulated, especially since so many of the deceased were not tested before or after they died. One set of important numbers are the total incremental deaths this year.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ng-deaths.html

[Seaplane Pilot]

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

[Arabella]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

For the "normal", yearly flu? We all got shots for.

The "normal" flu season kills anywhere from 30K to 65K people per year? Historically.

Where are the separate statistics for those cases? I'm thinkin' you can't trust China and you can't trust USA statistics...Actually you can't trust anyone in an election year with a major health issue, or even a minor issue.

Most people will make their decision in November on mailers they get within one week of the vote.

So sad we can't trust our elected leaders. In the end it's us who are responsible. We are in the drivers seat when we go to the polls.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

masks and gloves are just theater except for those who really need them and know how to use them. If there is virus in the air it will be on the outside of your mask and all around and unless someone else takes it off for you it's then on your hands and then you toss the mask on the front seat of the car and touch the key and steering wheel and everything else. Try doing painting or sheetrock with a mask and gloves and then try to get them both off with out getting paint on your fingers or dust everywhere. And that does not even consider using a bandana to supposedly filter microscopic particles.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

This is too vague of a question. The real answer is that people wear cloth masks because there are not enough surgical masks to go around. Surgical masks do protect people. Cloth masks are considered better than nothing. Cloth masks do not protect people from getting the virus. Cloth masks offer "some" protection from someone spreading the virus to others. So wearing a mask is simply being a good citizen to your fellow man in case you happen to be one of the many asymptomatic spreaders. So the answer is, that they really don't work even close to 100% of the time but it's better than nothing and that's why businesses..etc needed to close.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by jbolty

masks and gloves are just theater except for those who really need them and know how to use them. If there is virus in the air it will be on the outside of your mask and all around and unless someone else takes it off for you it's then on your hands and then you toss the mask on the front seat of the car and touch the key and steering wheel and everything else. Try doing painting or sheetrock with a mask and gloves and then try to get them both off with out getting paint on your fingers or dust everywhere. And that does not even consider using a bandana to supposedly filter microscopic particles.

This is why a mask is only one small part of the solution. One of the others is washing your hands frequently or more importantly, using hand sanitizer after you've been in a situation where you might have been exposed and not touching your face and eyes. It's no different than when you are cooking food that could contain a pathogen such as salmonella. You have to be very careful not to cross-contaminate but it's not too difficult if you take the time to do things in the proper order. People are not wearing masks for the theater of it.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

This is why a mask is only one small part of the solution. One of the others is washing your hands frequently or more importantly, using hand sanitizer after you've been in a situation where you might have been exposed and not touching your face and eyes. It's no different than when you are cooking food that could contain a pathogen such as salmonella. You have to be very careful not to cross-contaminate but it's not too difficult if you take the time to do things in the proper order. People are not wearing masks for the theater of it.

That's good in theory but at least a 1/4 of the people I see with masks have them below their nose and are wearing the same gloves to touch everything in sight plus their phone, keys and face.

the vast majority have no idea of basic science and are oblivious to the point of gloves or masks.

all this in addition to handling cash, touching atm or credit card key pads door handles, etc.

whenever I cut up raw meat I first put hot bleach water in the sink ready to wash my hands, knife and cutting board. Show me 5 people who do the same at home or even think of it. It's no coincidence that studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle.

having said all that, being cautious is fine but most people are not nearly as safe as they think they are and yet we are still not dropping like flies. I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by jbolty

I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed.

Have flown twice in 2020. Six airports. All over the place. Not recently though. Was just tested for both antibody and COVID-19. Negative on both.

Originally Posted by jbolty

studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle.

The study results vary. One stated that the kitchen sponge was the dirtiest. Most refuse to spend a single dollar on a new sponge or even wash the sponge properly.
The other item that sometimes comes in first is the cell phone. One study years ago stated that 21% of all cell phones has human feces on it.

Anyone ever wash their cell phone ???

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Have flown twice in 2020. Six airports. All over the place. Not recently though. Was just tested for both antibody and COVID-19. Negative on both.



The study results vary. One stated that the kitchen sponge was the dirtiest. Most refuse to spend a single dollar on a new sponge or even wash the sponge properly.
The other item that sometimes comes in first is the cell phone. One study years ago stated that 21% of all cell phones has human feces on it.

Anyone ever wash their cell phone ???

yuk. which is the reason I do not allow sponges in my house.

of course reusable grocery bags are vectors for filth as well, because no one ever washes them.

I'm not saying do nothing. what I am saying is the laksidasical way people are using this stuff is little better than nothing but the numbers are still mostly dropping.

I have seen numerous store credit/debit pads with plastic over the keys. What's the point? Everyone is still touching the same plastic. The drive thru clerk at mcdonalds is handling my drink, food bag and everyone's cash with the same gloves on. Spread is un stoppable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQE...ature=emb_logo

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

As I'm sure any seaplane pilot knows, this is moronic. Would you go up with only one safeguard between you and disaster?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

As I'm sure any seaplane pilot knows, this is moronic. Would you go up with only one safeguard between you and disaster?

Moronic? Tell that to the people who’ve lost their businesses and jobs. The masks either work or they don’t.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Moronic? Tell that to the people who’ve lost their businesses and jobs. The masks either work or they don’t.

It is absolutely NOT either /or.

It is like getting a flu shot...it does not guarantee you won’t get the flu but it makes it less likely and if it makes it less likely for you to get the flu, it is less likely you will give it to someone else. Win/Win.

Wearing a mask may, but probably does not, protect YOU from getting Covid. But, the absolute, professional consensus is that wearing a mask does make it less likely to spread it to someone else. As does social distancing. Win/Win.

The decision apparently has been made that it is more important to open the economy than to protect the most vulnerable who are either sick or old. Even though I am old, this could be a defensible position.

But it is only morally defensible IF everybody wears a mask and practices social distancing. This is how you open the economy and best protect the most vulnerable.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

It is absolutely NOT either /or.

It is like getting a flu shot...it does not guarantee you won’t get the flu but it makes it less likely and if it makes it less likely for you to get the flu, it is less likely you will give it to someone else. Win/Win.

Wearing a mask may, but probably does not, protect YOU from getting Covid. But, the absolute, professional consensus is that wearing a mask does make it less likely to spread it to someone else. As does social distancing. Win/Win.

The decision apparently has been made that it is more important to open the economy than to protect the most vulnerable who are either sick or old. Even though I am old, this could be a defensible position.

But it is only morally defensible IF everybody wears a mask and practices social distancing. This is how you open the economy and best protect the most vulnerable.

Great, everyone wear a mask and let’s get opened up and moving. Georgia and Florida are well on the way. But forcing people to wear masks, yet still restricting businesses is counterproductive, in my opinion.

[WinnisquamZ]

Agree. If you ask me to wear a mask and everything will open then I will. But, if you tell me too and keep everything closed. It’s a no. My body, my choice! Sound familiar?


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[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Great, everyone wear a mask and let’s get opened up and moving. Georgia and Florida are well on the way. But forcing people to wear masks, yet still restricting businesses is counterproductive, in my opinion.

It isn’t a question of “forcing” people to wear masks. While I do not agree, there are always a small number of people in a free society who, on principle, have always lived their lives in a certain way and having core beliefs, either religious or not, is not something to be mocked.

BUT, judging by the large numbers of people who do not wear masks, most of these do not truly understand why they should wear one, or they believe they look stupid in them, or it is inconvenient. All kinds of excuses not to wear them. Or, it is because of the present contentious political climate ( not a lifelong matter of principle). There is almost no valid excuse for our elected officials to decline to wear them. Excepting those with long-standing contrarian principles.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Agree. If you ask me to wear a mask and everything will open then I will. But, if you tell me too and keep everything closed. It’s a no. My body, my choice! Sound familiar?


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Why bring an unrelated issue into this? I support “my body,my choice” assuming you are referring to the abortion issue. If so, why bring it up...there are a lot of “my body,my choice, such as anti Vaccers, drug users, etc. that would be a different discussion.

On the other hand, I have had discussions with people who, on principle, are opposed to abortion and I can respect them and their opinions.

As far as the mask issue...are you saying you will only wear a mask if there are no restrictions whatsoever on opening up? If so, I just don’t understand that position and I’ll leave it at that. Of course, there are differences in the speed and method we should open up. I don’t get the all or none argument...for the most part we are talking about the best way to move forward, not rigid dogma.

[Lakegeezer]

In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms, because this virus has that nasty catch to it. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".

When I see many individuals wearing a mask I believe they are sick or believe they are and avoid the area.


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[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".

I agree. It’s people who are refusing to do little things like wear a mask who are prolonging this.

Of course the people that are wearing masks are not all sick. They are doing it to protect others.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

When I see many individuals wearing a mask I believe they are sick or believe they are and avoid the area.


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I can understand what you are saying; I just don’t think it is logical. It is a reason not to wear a mask that I never considered.

If so, there are a lot of people in the area who are sick or believe they are who are out shopping at Heaths.

I don’t always agree with what you write but it usually makes sense to me.

If this is the only reason you don’t wear one, perhaps reevaluate it.

[WinnisquamZ]

If you are sick or believe you are sick you should not be out infecting others. Period! That is one rule everyone follow. If you believe you are at risk then do what you must to protect yourself. However, many others should not be asked to risk everything they have achieved and isolate so a few can possible avoid illness


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[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

If you are sick or believe you are sick you should not be out infecting others. Period! That is one rule everyone follow. If you believe you are at risk then do what you must to protect yourself. However, many others should not be asked to risk everything they have achieved and isolate so a few can possible avoid illness


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And why do you think that these are two different groups of people? I have not been out of my house since the end of February. I have been totally self isolated and I’ve had anything I need delivered and left on my doorstep. I put everything in different containers and I wash my hands and wipe everything down with alcohol. I have done everything that I am supposed to do to keep myself safe.
But why is it only on me? I would like to go back to my normal life, but too many people like you tell me that I’m taking away your freedom.
And why do you suppose that I am not financially affected by what is happening in the economy? And maybe I am at an age that I won’t be able to recover like someone younger might be able.

[dickiej]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

If you are sick or believe you are sick you should not be out infecting others. Period! That is one rule everyone follow. If you believe you are at risk then do what you must to protect yourself. However, many others should not be asked to risk everything they have achieved and isolate so a few can possible avoid illness


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What if you are asymptamatic, don't know you are "sick" but still contagious?

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by dickiej

What if you are asymptamatic, don't know you are "sick" but still contagious?

Of course, there is not answer to this one.

Let the "healthy" people go out. To restaurants, malls, parties, bars, etc.
And just make sure the "sick" ones stay home.

Except. No one knows if that healthy person is asymptomatic. Infecting everyone around them,

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

"Since January, the CDC reported more than 5,000 influenza-associated deaths."–"

source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...al/3044888001/

Bull crap. Look at the statistics for every year, the "normal" influenza causes tens of thousands deaths...

So let me ask my original question, maybe answered without diversions about masks. What are the ACCURATE statistics for influenza deaths this year? Let me add this...Compared to last year and the year before?

[garysanfran]

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...18/archive.htm

[TheRoBoat]

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by TheRoBoat

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

Thank you, but not sure that answers my question.

[garysanfran]

We had a severe flu epidemic of severe proportions.

Did you hear anything about it until now, or ever?

[TheRoBoat]

The "original" estimates from 2018, in the body of the text.

Then at the top there is a yellow box that seems to lead to updated numbers for the 2018 season.

Do you want comments on the higher numbers from 2018, or the revised lower numbers that came out later?

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Thank you, but not sure that answers my question.

"Conclusion

CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 48.8 million illnesses, more than 22.7 million medical visits, 959,000 hospitalizations, and 79,400 deaths during the 2017–2018 influenza season. This burden was higher than any season since the 2009 pandemic and serves as a reminder of how severe seasonal influenza can be."

From the CDC.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Bull crap. Look at the statistics for every year, the "normal" influenza causes tens of thousands deaths...So let me ask my original question, maybe answered without diversions about masks. What are the ACCURATE statistics for influenza deaths this year? Let me add this...Compared to last year and the year before?

Assume the normal flu kills 60-80K Americans over a twelve month period on average, and that this year will be similar.

Covid-19 has been with us for only several months and the death toll has now exceeded in that short amount of time the yearly death toll from the regular flu.

Let's wait until early 2121 to compare the yearly death tolls, shall we?

The deaths from Covid-19 will certainly far exceed that of the regular flu when the one year period ends in 2121.

[JEEPONLY]

I decided to look up wipes because the news has been so insistent on 60-70% alcohol.

We've been using (primarily) Lysol and Clorox wipes- also some lower profile brands- as long as we had plenty, we felt good.

Now I find that most of these are ALCOHOL FREE, but have a bunch of other fancy sounding ingredients in them. Crap!

My solution was to buy bottles of isopropyl/rubbing alcohol (70%-$2.50/32.oz.) and pour it in to my wipes containers- swish it around- apply.

They come out soaking!- but make me feel better.

Make any sense? Where and what kind of manufactured alcohol wipes are you
finding that are in stock- price/per 50-100, whatever?

I don't mean to go in to are they even necessary- just asking.

[jazzman]

All the touch points make me crazy. To get out of home Depot the other day I had to touch the scanner gun, the touch screen and the card reader. I'm sure glad they had Plexi panels all around each self checkout station so maybe I couldn't breathe on someone. You have to touch the doors in most places to get in/out. I think fixing these will do 10x the good of masks.

[upthesaukee]

Google making hand sanitizer. We looked at it early on, and if memory serves me right, it is isopropyl alcohol and aloe.

Dave

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Assume the normal flu kills 60-80K Americans over a twelve month period on average, and that this year will be similar.

Covid-19 has been with us for only several months and the death toll has now exceeded in that short amount of time the yearly death toll from the regular flu.

Let's wait until early 2121 to compare the yearly death tolls, shall we?

The deaths from Covid-19 will certainly far exceed that of the regular flu when the one year period ends in 2121.

I appreciate your sentiment here, but remember that whatever the actual number of covid cases/deaths we have this year, those numbers are being pushed down every day by social distancing. So covid is a much bigger issue than those numbers will indicate

[garysanfran]

I ask the question?

Please look at the original post

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by mr. V

assume the normal flu kills 60-80k americans over a twelve month period on average, and that this year will be similar.

Covid-19 has been with us for only several months and the death toll has now exceeded in that short amount of time the yearly death toll from the regular flu.

Let's wait until early 2121 to compare the yearly death tolls, shall we?

The deaths from covid-19 will certainly far exceed that of the regular flu when the one year period ends in 2121.

what are the statistics for the normal flu?

[Pricestavern]

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Estimated Deaths per Season - USA

2010-2011: 37,000
2011-2012: 12,000
2012-2013: 43,000
2013-2014: 38,000
2014-2015: 51,000
2015-2016: 23,000
2016-2017: 38,000
2017-2018: 61,000 (Preliminary Estimate)
2018-2019: 34,157 (Preliminary Estimate)


Avg Seasonal Fatalities: 37,461

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

what are the statistics for the normal flu?

I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun YOU!

[Newbiesaukee]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2766121

I do not know if this link will work. It is a discussion from the Journal of the American Medical Association about why comparing Covid and Flu statistics is inaccurate and not helpful.

I am not arguing; but this might be useful to those interested if the link works. If it does not, let me know and I will delete the post. Don’t want to add to the confusion.

[upthesaukee]

Link worked and it is an interesting read.

Thanks for sharing

Dave

[nj2nh]

Originally Posted by jbolty

That's good in theory but at least a 1/4 of the people I see with masks have them below their nose and are wearing the same gloves to touch everything in sight plus their phone, keys and face.

the vast majority have no idea of basic science and are oblivious to the point of gloves or masks.

all this in addition to handling cash, touching atm or credit card key pads door handles, etc.

whenever I cut up raw meat I first put hot bleach water in the sink ready to wash my hands, knife and cutting board. Show me 5 people who do the same at home or even think of it. It's no coincidence that studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle.

having said all that, being cautious is fine but most people are not nearly as safe as they think they are and yet we are still not dropping like flies. I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed.

Well, after cutting meat, everything goes in the dishwasher. I have a separate cutting board for vegetables. I disinfect my fridge handles every day - after breakfast and after dinner. Did that before the virus. I think plenty of people know to do this.


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[nj2nh]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

When I see many individuals wearing a mask I believe they are sick or believe they are and avoid the area.


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Why? Is it not a requirement in NH? It is down here in NJ. In fact, those not wearing masks are the ones getting the evil eye.


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[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

Why? Is it not a requirement in NH? It is down here in NJ. In fact, those not wearing masks are the ones getting the evil eye.


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I think it is only under certain circumstances and of course, private businesses can require a mask be worn. But for the sake of the local economy and getting things back to normal as quickly as possible, I wish everyone would just wear one when they are not able to socially distance.

https://www.seacoastonline.com/news/...pandemic-in-nh

[WinnisquamZ]

We are asked to wear a mask to protect others. In Shaw’s today I saw three individuals no mask going the wrong way down each lane that are and I will be kind “very large”. If we assume they are “at risk individuals” why must I wear a mask if they are unwilling to help themselves.


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[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

We are asked to wear a mask to protect others. In Shaw’s today I saw three individuals no mask going the wrong way down each lane that are and I will be kind “very large”. If we assume they are “at risk individuals” why must I wear a mask if they are unwilling to help themselves.


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Because you are the “bigger” person and care about yourself and others, even if they don’t care about themselves. The same reason you drive a reasonable speed limit while others fly by at 90 mph.


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[SAMIAM]

Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised.
COPD,asthma,diabetes and high blood preasure put you at greater risk.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised.
COPD,asthma,diabetes and high blood preasure put you at greater risk.

Perhaps trivial, but asthma does not seem to be an independent risk factor for Covid-19. There are multiple references to this in the literature. It is not an established fact, but it is interesting.

The problem is that I find it hard to believe anything I read. I am definitely not a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps not believing anything has been the purpose all along.

Although Samiam is basically correct, there is still a great deal we do NOT know about the novel coronavirus and low risk people including children DO die of the disease.

What we do not know is still, to me, the most concerning part of the pandemic.

[Flylady]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised.
COPD,asthma,diabetes and high blood preasure put you at greater risk.

This may be correct however based on my observations, what is the total percentage of "at-risk" population in NH? Seeing a large number of overweight people and seniors, I am guessing it is very high.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Flylady

This may be correct however based on my observations, what is the total percentage of "at-risk" population in NH? Seeing a large number of overweight people and seniors, I am guessing it is very high.

Yes....18% of NH residents are 65 or older and the NH obesity rate is 28%. NH is one of the “oldest” states and about in the middle for obesity.

Of course, you can be both old and fat.

[FlyingScot]

Excellent article in today's Times describing how an earlier lockdown would have saved tens of thousands of people. A couple of things occur to me:

1) NH, due to its remote location, shut down earlier in its cycle than NY and Mass. So this is consistent with Sam's point.

2) As different states reopen at different speeds, we can see whether models like this are basically correct or incorrect. If these models/stats are worthwhile, we should expect to see fast openers (Georgia?) experience higher growth in the months to come.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/u...ng-deaths.html

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised.
COPD,asthma,diabetes and high blood preasure put you at greater risk.

What makes this interesting is that there are over 7 million people in the US with undiagnosed diabetes. There are almost 4 million with undiagnosed heart disease. So many people are walking around thinking they are (relatively) healthy simply because the issue that makes them high risk has yet to be diagnosed.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised.
COPD,asthma,diabetes and high blood preasure put you at greater risk.

Hind sight is 20/20 as they say. This is why looking back on it now long term care facilities/nursing home etc should have been in lockdown, protect the most vulnerable but let the rest who are healthy conduct normal daily activities and not shut everything down leading to a very hurt economy that some may never recover from or at least take years to recover from.

[Taz]

Now the CDC is saying Covid-19 is not spread easily from surfaces or objects. If thats true that could go a long way to opening things up.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Taz

Now the CDC is saying Covid-19 is not spread easily from surfaces or objects. If thats true that could go a long way to opening things up.

Yes, that is what I read also.... and for some reason its OK to fly on a full airplane, which is happening every day now but we can't eat in a restaurant!

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Yes, that is what I read also.... and for some reason its OK to fly on a full airplane, which is happening every day now but we can't eat in a restaurant!

That's kind of the point I was making last week. Despite the best of intentions there are 1001 ways we can all be exposed and probably have been but people are not dropping dead in the street by the hundreds. Considering how many people I see using masks and gloves wrong they might as well go be going around coughing on everything and licking the door handles.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Taz

Now the CDC is saying Covid-19 is not spread easily from surfaces or objects. If thats true that could go a long way to opening things up.

NO, it won't, at least is shouldn't fo "a long way:" maybe "a short way."

The key is social distancing: avoid coming in contact with anyone less than six feet away.

Can't do that in planes, concerts, games, most restaurants.

OK for big box stores, car dealers: businesses with lots of room and the ability to truly maintain AND ENFORCE necessary social distancing.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by jbolty

That's kind of the point I was making last week. Despite the best of intentions there are 1001 ways we can all be exposed and probably have been but people are not dropping dead in the street by the hundreds. Considering how many people I see using masks and gloves wrong they might as well go be going around coughing on everything and licking the door handles.

Yup, Masks are a joke, I don't know how many I see walking around with the mask on their chin. My wife who knows how to use a mask says most people are not using them properly. Also, how many know how to remove gloves without contaminating something or transmitting to your hands when removing? I saw my wife the other day somehow remove them by turning them inside out and disposing of them. How many people know that or do that? And now that the CDC is saying its not easily transmitted by touching surfaces or objects, maybe its moot.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Taz

Yup, Masks are a joke, I don't know how many I see walking around with the mask on their chin. My wife who knows how to use a mask says most people are not using them properly. Also, how many know how to remove gloves without contaminating something or transmitting to your hands when removing? I saw my wife the other day somehow remove them by turning them inside out and disposing of them. How many people know that or do that? And now that the CDC is saying its not easily transmitted by touching surfaces or objects, maybe its moot.

Soooo...if someone walks around with their mask on their chin, I guess they're not wearing a mask, right. In that case, I would say they are absolutely ineffective. When worn properly, they offer some protection from you, possibly an asymptomatic carrier transmitting the disease to someone else.

As far as the movie drama some are trying to make this: No, people are not dropping the streets. They are however dying in hospitals after what can be a horrible period of illness.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-h...virus-florida/

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Taz

Hind sight is 20/20 as they say. This is why looking back on it now long term care facilities/nursing home etc should have been in lockdown, protect the most vulnerable but let the rest who are healthy conduct normal daily activities and not shut everything down leading to a very hurt economy that some may never recover from or at least take years to recover from.

No matter how slowly or how fast businesses open up there will always, ALWAYS be those who will complain. I can't tell you how many people I still see online out there insisting that anybody no wearing a mask is being selfish. REALLY? I continue to social distance everywhere I go so a mask is not necessary. I have worked from home for 2+ years already and have seen even fewer people since early March. I disinfect as I go wherever I go. And I haven't seen my father who is in hospice in a nursing home since early March. And yet it's not enough for some people. Nothing ever will be for them.

Perhaps the complainers simply have zero concept about what business owners are going through as we continue lose income (2.5 months and counting, people) because we've sacrificed to help everyone by staying home while losing business and money. And not one of those people asking us to continue sacrificing will turn around and sacrifice a thing to help business owners financially. Not a one. Nobody has offered to sacrifice for ME by taking over my mortgage payments for the last 2.5 months. Nobody has offered to pay off MY vehicle to thank me.

So....if you are elderly or just afraid, then stay home. Same if you're immune compromised in any way. Just stay home and be safe and then you have no worries. And please accept that the rest of us need to get back to work. Because someone has to earn money to pay taxes to keep the government funded AND keep feeding social security and the other programs many of the complainers rely on.

I wish you all good health.

GB

[FlyingScot]

These posts remind me of an interesting article I read today that pointed out one of the ironies we're in--plenty of people with no expertise at all are completely confident they know the right answer or see the government's flaws very clearly, yet all of the epidemiologists preface their remarks by saying that there are many things we do not know.

Maybe we all need to step back and acknowledge that we're learning this stuff real-time

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

These posts remind me of an interesting article I read today that pointed out one of the ironies we're in--plenty of people with no expertise at all are completely confident they know the right answer or see the government's flaws very clearly, yet all of the epidemiologists preface their remarks by saying that there are many things we do not know.

Maybe we all need to step back and acknowledge that we're learning this stuff real-time

I've always planned for the worst, and am happy if the best occurs.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Too many people I've know have always assumed "Everything will be OK". without the knowledge to make such an assumption.

The next months, years and decades will disect this event. Exposing the corruption that is occurring, the false news for political/financial gain, false science based on grants, ignorance, arrogance, ya d de ya de ya!

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Nobody has offered to sacrifice for ME by taking over my mortgage payments for the last 2.5 months. Nobody has offered to pay off MY vehicle to thank me.

Sure I / we have.

You got a check for $1200.00 recently, didn't you?

My tax dollars at work.

[dickiej]

Basically, all the experts are just guessing....we really have no base line to use for comparison....this whole event has been fly by the seat of your pants trial and error. And, always remember, we only get the information the government wants us to know. I'm no conspiratorialist, but I can't help that we aren't getting the whole story....just saying....

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

NO, it won't, at least is shouldn't fo "a long way:" maybe "a short way."

The key is social distancing: avoid coming in contact with anyone less than six feet away.

Can't do that in planes, concerts, games, most restaurants.

OK for big box stores, car dealers: businesses with lots of room and the ability to truly maintain AND ENFORCE necessary social distancing.

So are you going to social distsnce for the rest of your life? People waiting for a vaccine, think that's going to make everything better? 10'S of thousands die every year from the flu even with flu shots. Can't even get the flu shot right because it mutates and different strains evolve. Covid doesn't manifest into symptoms for many, most who get it recover, most that do die have compromised health just like the flu. Eventually gov'ts will have to allow reopening and let it run its course. Status quo can't continue forever. Covid is not suddenly disappearing. It's here for good.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Taz

So are you going to social distsnce for the rest of your life?

No, just til I get innoculated.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised.
COPD, asthma, diabetes and high blood pressure put you at greater risk.

The good news...:

Nobody will die of heart attacks, flu, strokes, cancer, etc....during that period. (snark)

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Taz

Yup, Masks are a joke, I don't know how many I see walking around with the mask on their chin. My wife who knows how to use a mask says most people are not using them properly. Also, how many know how to remove gloves without contaminating something or transmitting to your hands when removing? I saw my wife the other day somehow remove them by turning them inside out and disposing of them. How many people know that or do that? And now that the CDC is saying its not easily transmitted by touching surfaces or objects, maybe its moot.

I just need someone to come up with a mask that doesn't fog my glasses.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Sure I / we have.

You got a check for $1200.00 recently, didn't you?

My tax dollars at work.

Nice try, but NO. Not a dime from the government in any way, shape or form. So I, along with YOU, get to see MY tax dollars at work.

No stimulus check. No SBA help. Nothing. Oh, we asked about the SBA loans through our bank but the money was gone fast. And no PPP because we are self-employed.

So again, ZERO assistance received from ANY government entity or person.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Nice try, but NO. Not a dime from the government in any way, shape or form.

Now that is weird: I thought a check went out to all who filed tax returns in 2018 and / or 2019.

I was talking to someone who said they got paid twice.