Disappointing experience with a new Sea Ray

Dave R · 05-31-2020, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysanfran

That buying a new boat is not a good idea. Buying a slightly used boat (with a documented history) is the way to assure these issues are not present.

Well-maintained, well-built used boats are a great way to go. They don't have to be slightly used either. I bought a 1992 Tollycraft with 1600 hours on the engines last year. It's built like a tank and I can't find any structural deficiencies. Our first time operating it was a 16 day/1000+ mile cruise that went wonderfully.

TiltonBB · 06-01-2020, 05:28 AM

One of the main reasons my experience with a defective boat was different is because I purchased it in Massachusetts.

Massachusetts (With all of its faults) has some good consumer protection laws. I am sure your lawyer in New Hampshire will be aware of the consumer protection laws that can be utilized.

In MA General Laws Section 9: (3A) "A person may assert a claim under this section in a district court, whether by way of original complaint, counterclaim, cross-claim or third-party action, for money damages only. Said damages may include double or treble damages, attorneys' fees and costs, as herein provided."

I repeatedly pointed out that if a satisfactory deal was not offered then I would be entitled to triple damages. Three times the cost of a boat and trailer amounted to a significant number.

The only reason someone will make a decent settlement offer to you is if they realize that the alternative, via bad publicity and a court order, will potentially cost them even more.

Dave R · 06-01-2020, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

It can be all over the map - boats don't have the same lemon law protections that cars do, and it seems to be harder to get people on " misrepresented the condition intentionally". there are tons of used boats that are excellent boats, and plenty that have been abused. I think I'd feel safer with a valet boat that's ben stored indoors for it's entire life. Trailered boats near the coast would scare me a little (maybe less so for shorter boats)

That's kinda funny, our last boat was a year 2000 trailered boat near the coast, but we kept it pristine and the current owners are on their second year with it and love it. We used it in salt and fresh water, but when used in salt water, it was always flushed immediately after.

Our Tollycraft was a fresh water boat that was stored in a heated building in Michigan half it's life. It had only been in the ocean once before we bought it.

I'm really sorry you have had such a miserable time with your new Sea Ray. I cannot imagine why they would treat a customer so poorly, especially when the issues weren't exactly nit-picky. Makes me think the division of Sea Ray that makes your boat (assuming they have divisions for different types of boats) might be having some financial troubles.

Descant · 06-01-2020, 12:40 PM

I expect it will be a long time before this actually gets in front of a jury, if ever. If there is an eventual settlement, as often happens, there will be some sort of non-disclosure agreement wrapped up in the deal. So, who thin ks we will ever hear anything from the Sea Ray side? Not me, but I have to think there is some sort of thought process behind their actions, or lack of action. Just can't imagine.

Winilyme · 06-01-2020, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Descant

I expect it will be a long time before this actually gets in front of a jury, if ever. If there is an eventual settlement, as often happens, there will be some sort of non-disclosure agreement wrapped up in the deal. So, who thin ks we will ever hear anything from the Sea Ray side? Not me, but I have to think there is some sort of thought process behind their actions, or lack of action. Just can't imagine.

One benefit of social media is that it tends to amp up the pressure for a company to settle QUICKLY given a NDA won't eliminate the damage done to their reputation before it's been signed. For example, NDA or no NDA, as far as I'm concerned the damage has been done. Going forward, when I'm ready to purchase a boat, I'll remember this string (I'll even refer back to it) and the fact that Sea Ray (or the dealer) failed to respond publicly (at least on this forum) to confirm or refute the allegations. There's usually multiple sides to a story and the alternate sides aren't typically shy about explaining theirs. The fact that the dealer and Sea Ray have refrained from doing so makes them guilty in my mind. Bottom line, I'm simply not going to take chances and will side conservatively before spending that kind of money. I will never purchase a, or from, Sea Ray.

Recognizing that the boat was purchased in Massachusetts, some will argue that maybe the dealer or even Sea Ray haven't seen this string. Unfortunately that's their problem and it's why so many businesses work hard to monitor social media venues - especially those that match up with their footprint (I would think anything having to do with Lake Winni would be foremost on the minds of a MA dealer). Businesses work hard at this so they can nip problems in the bud. This seems to be a big failure on their part.

Finally, you would think our local Sea Ray dealer would at least step in to say that it wasn't THEM that sold the boat. Without any such statement, their reputation is being damaged even as they are an innocent bystander. Perhaps, a stretch I know, they could even step in with a PR win and offer some intervention or consultation.

TiltonBB · 06-01-2020, 06:17 PM

Why not send a link to this thread to the people you are dealing with at SeaRay and every upper level person you can get an email for. There should be links available for investor relations, advertising, Etc. Bomb them with emails and they will get forwarded internally to people in a decision making capacity who you may not be able to get to on your own. They won't be pleased to see the extensive amount of bad publicity they are getting on a very active and popular website.

In the past WMUR has done some consumer affairs/complaints stories. Call and ask them if they would like to do a story about this. Their reporter standing in front of the dealership you bought it at might result in some additional pressure on SeaRay.

Ask the Laconia Sun if they would like to do a story of local interest. They may decline if significant advertising dollars come from the dealer but it never hurts to ask. It might give the dealer additional incentive to call the higher ups at SeaRay and demand that they fix this.

TheTimeTraveler · 06-01-2020, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Why not send a link to this thread to the people you are dealing with at SeaRay and every upper level person you can get an email for. There should be links available for investor relations, advertising, Etc. Bomb them with emails and they will get forwarded internally to people in a decision making capacity who you may not be able to get to on your own. They won't be pleased to see the extensive amount of bad publicity they are getting on a very active and popular website.

In the past WMUR has done some consumer affairs/complaints stories. Call and ask them if they would like to do a story about this. Their reporter standing in front of the dealership you bought it at might result in some additional pressure on SeaRay.

Ask the Laconia Sun if they would like to do a story of local interest. They may decline if significant advertising dollars come from the dealer but it never hurts to ask. It might give the dealer additional incentive to call the higher ups at SeaRay and demand that they fix this.

Excellent ideas!

Poor Richard · 06-01-2020, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

Via some smaller groups on social media it has come to my attention that there are a fair number of customers who are having the same issues regarding repairs, fulfillment of warranty and workmanship...

I'm no lawyer but I read those words and think "class action".

brk-lnt · 06-02-2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

Makes me think the division of Sea Ray that makes your boat (assuming they have divisions for different types of boats) might be having some financial troubles.

All of SeaRay is having financial troubles. What is really concerning about this is that they got out of the "big boat" business, and have stopped building anything over 40ft to concentrate more on the segment where they have traditionally been better situated, which is the smaller fresh water boats.

tis · 06-02-2020, 01:05 PM

Too bad there isn't a Sea Ray discussion somewhere on Facebook. John Deere was on there a while ago and I complained about my shift on my Gator. Previously I had it picked up by the dealer and nothing was done. They told me they shifted hard. Hard? You couldn't shift it! So John Deere told me to call them and eventually it ended up getting fixed with JD, dealer and us all paying one third. This is making a long story short, but I wanted you to know that they do care when they think a lot of people are seeing issues.

tis · 06-02-2020, 01:11 PM

Too bad there isn't a Sea Ray discussion somewhere on Facebook. John Deere was on there a while ago and I complained about my shift on my Gator. Previously I had it picked up by the dealer and nothing was done. They told me they shifted hard. Hard? You couldn't shift it! So John Deere told me to call them and eventually it ended up getting fixed with JD, dealer and us all paying one third. This is making a long story short, but I wanted you to know that they don't like it when it becomes public.

brk-lnt · 06-02-2020, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

I’d be amazed if they’re in financial trouble.

It's pretty well documented. Brunswick tried to sell the Sea Ray division, but couldn't find a buyer for it. Their 2019 overall sales were down.

You are not being an a-hole at all, but you bought a budget production boat from a struggling company. I think you are going to need to really stick to your resolve on this to get it settled.

upthesaukee · 06-02-2020, 10:39 PM

5 years of Brunswick Corp

Dave

Cal Coon · 06-03-2020, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

The decision to sell wasn’t based off currently poor numbers, it caught a lot of people by surprise at the time. That was happening when we were purchasing the SDX, we dug a fair amount before pulling the trigge. 2018/19 metrics are off because the lost the 40+ft market on the lakes/ SE, however they sold more units in the sport boat market between 18/19 than they did any in the 5 years preceding . The parent company still has decent market cap, cash on hand and volume. I disagree that sea ray is in Dire financial straits. They are much better off than the were around 08 etc.

Regardless of the balance sheet, their behavior so far has been irresponsible. Honestly, I don’t care if they’re walking around the edge of bankruptcy, you still answer the phone, you still call your customers back, and when you have a material defect that puts a family at risk (sinking in the middle of the broads in early May with a bunch of kids on board would have been a disaster) you go out of your way to make sure they know you are taking care of it.

When you do send the boat back- it had better not have more things on it broken then when it went in for repair!

This is exactly why I say some "people", plural, not just one individual, needs to be terminated over this catastrophe. This is totally unacceptable. The owner of the dealership you bought this boat from should be right by your side in dealing with Sea Ray in all this mess... As far as I'm concerned, he is just as responsible since he represents Sea Ray. Where is he??? You need him fighting for you.

ACME on the Broads · 06-03-2020, 08:52 AM

]

Sorry you and your family are dealing with this!

Earlier in your thread you mentioned "the dealer has bent over backwards" for you; after reading all the posts, it appears the dealer has bent over backwards for sure but not on your behalf; clearly they own 50% of the problem & resolution.

Name the dealer so that other good people don't get burned, who knows, perhaps it will force the dealer to dig into their "goodwill" stash and provide you and your family an alternative solution.

Here's hoping you get some relief!

ursa minor · 06-08-2020, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

For what it’s worth, Sea Ray has still not responded. The boat has been back For a month, shakedown was May 7th. I Rejected acceptance then.

I have no idea what the marina, or sea ray have done, or if they have done anything whatsoever. Neither have responded to the AG or lawyer, or my initial phone calls since it came back.

While this forum is certainly influential, I’m curious if you’ve considered posting your experiences on other boating forums. While more of a fishing/ fishing boat forum The Hull Truth is not only Florida based but also has a huge readership that does not suffer manufacturers ignoring customers that have QC issues. From my experience reading there over a 10 year span (not a member) they can be very “passionate”. If you’re being ignored anyway, something to consider. Certainly wouldn’t make life any more pleasant for Sea Ray / Brunswick Corp. So sorry you’ve had to deal with this, this is supposed to be the fun stuff. I hope this gets resolved quickly and correctly for you.

Cal Coon · 06-09-2020, 06:20 AM

This is so unfortunate. I just don't understand how something like this can happen. Especially since the boat is still under warranty, ( I believe you said in an earlier post).

Bootkie2 · 06-09-2020, 03:46 PM

There's a 270 SDX at PBM for sale......."runs great, floats well"
https://paugusbaymarina.com/boats-fo...a-ray-sdx-270/

Someone probably read this thread and traded it for a Formula ASAP before things hit the fan.

In all honesty (joking aside) this is terrible and I hope you get it resolved quickly. Thanks for sharing with us.

Woody38 · 06-09-2020, 07:39 PM

If you are a membr of BOAT/US they would go to bat for you and SeaRay surely would listen. They represent a huge segment of the boating population
which manufacturers understand that they stand to lose business.

_________________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

Descant · 06-09-2020, 10:18 PM

Te above are all interesting suggestions. I can see up and downsides to many. Listen to your lawyer, not the amateurs.

Tuckntruck · 06-10-2020, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootkie2

There's a 270 SDX at PBM for sale......."runs great, floats well"
https://paugusbaymarina.com/boats-fo...a-ray-sdx-270/

Someone probably read this thread and traded it for a Formula ASAP before things hit the fan.

In all honesty (joking aside) this is terrible and I hope you get it resolved quickly. Thanks for sharing with us.

Ha, runs good floats well might be a decent selling point!

thinkxingu · 06-14-2020, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

Sea Ray finally responded to the Lawyers demands. I won’t post the letter but the gist of their response was ,” The owner had several contact at sea ray he could have reached out to, a bunch of Bs about how good their customer service is, CV-19 was the cause for the delay, and they are confident the marina can fix the few “cosmetic” issues, however in alignment with keeping me happy, they Have talked to the marina and will work with them to “trade” me into another boat - and that the marina will be in touch with me.

Well that’s awesome, because the GM of the marina was just as baffled as me, nobody had talked to him and he had no idea what “trade” means. Additionally they don’t have any similar 270SDX’s in stock right now, however I can confirm that on New boats there is no unfinished plywood, or red expanding glue visible anywhere under the boat.

If they think I’m paying money to move into another sea ray, I will jump in the Plane and fly to TN just so I can laugh in their faces.

At least they're moving towards a resolution—good luck!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

garysanfran · 06-14-2020, 07:14 PM

Sounds to me that their defense would not hold up in front of a reasonable arbitrator/judge. The evidence usually speaks for itself.

iw8surf · 06-15-2020, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

Eh, the overall tone was “ We don’t know why you’re upset, look at all we have done for you”. They included all of their “communications” with me as proof, however all of that happened after I demanded a new boat in March/April - after they had messed around for 8 months.

Semi telling that they claimed to have been working out a deal with our marina, only to have the Marina tell me flat out they had no idea what sea ray wanted to do, or, who they had talked to. The person of contact they named in the letter bears the namesake- but would not be the person who they would talk to about this- e.g the paralegal BS’d the steps they were taking in trying to draft a letter that looked like they were bending over to accommodate me, when in reality they’re doing nothing of the sort. They also claimed that they “never received” either of the two letters from the Nh AG- the first regular mail, the second certified and signed for. I have now missed all of May, and half of June, and am quite done with this. Demand letter expires in 10 days- only for the sake of not appearing to be on a money grab we’ll wait out the 10 days, if they don’t buy me out at or make me whole at that point, then I hope I can teach them a lesson.

Curious, youre going to take another sea ray? If that was my only choice id take it and trade it in somewhere else for a totally different brand... yall are out for me!

tis · 06-15-2020, 12:45 PM

Do you really think all Sea Rays are terrible now? It was such a nice quality boat that I would hate to think it isn't anymore. Maybe this was just a lemon?

tis · 06-15-2020, 05:11 PM

That's very sad to hear. Sea Ray used to be such a great company, it sounds like things have changed a lot.

tis · 06-15-2020, 06:46 PM

As I said, when we toured the Merritt Island Sea Ray Factory a few years ago they were so into quality control. I wonder if things changed when they closed that. Not even sure if they closed all of it but I don't think Sea Rays are made there any more.

Tuckntruck · 06-16-2020, 10:05 PM

Looks like there may be some positive traction/news. I guess fingers crossed.

thinkxingu · 06-17-2020, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

Looks like there may be some positive traction/news. I guess fingers crossed.

Good luck!!!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Tuckntruck · 06-24-2020, 07:47 AM

Well, it’s been a long process, however the Marina pushed the OEM to an acceptable resolution. I’ve since gone through and deleted my posts, and will be asking a MOD to delete the thread. It took a lot of work, however at this point we are happy with the resolution.

Thank you for the inputs and suggestions, appreciate it,

Tuck. See you all out on the lake (probably just not in the weekends!)

06-01-2020, 12:40 PM	#4
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,414 Thanks: 1,366 Thanked 1,636 Times in 1,068 Posts	Secret I expect it will be a long time before this actually gets in front of a jury, if ever. If there is an eventual settlement, as often happens, there will be some sort of non-disclosure agreement wrapped up in the deal. So, who thin ks we will ever hear anything from the Sea Ray side? Not me, but I have to think there is some sort of thought process behind their actions, or lack of action. Just can't imagine.

06-02-2020, 10:39 PM	#13
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,604 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,469 Thanked 1,983 Times in 1,083 Posts	5 yrs Brunswick Corp 5 years of Brunswick Corp Dave Attached Images __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

06-03-2020, 08:52 AM	#15
ACME on the Broads Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 109 Thanks: 485 Thanked 105 Times in 49 Posts	Appalling Lack Of Dealer Ownership! ] Sorry you and your family are dealing with this! Earlier in your thread you mentioned "the dealer has bent over backwards" for you; after reading all the posts, it appears the dealer has bent over backwards for sure but not on your behalf; clearly they own 50% of the problem & resolution. Name the dealer so that other good people don't get burned, who knows, perhaps it will force the dealer to dig into their "goodwill" stash and provide you and your family an alternative solution. Here's hoping you get some relief!

06-09-2020, 10:18 PM	#20
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,414 Thanks: 1,366 Thanked 1,636 Times in 1,068 Posts	Listen to the lawyer Te above are all interesting suggestions. I can see up and downsides to many. Listen to your lawyer, not the amateurs.

06-14-2020, 07:14 PM	#23
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,578 Thanks: 676 Thanked 682 Times in 348 Posts	Sounds to me that their defense would not hold up in front of a reasonable arbitrator/judge. The evidence usually speaks for itself. __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

06-01-2020, 05:28 AM	#2
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,027 Thanks: 708 Thanked 2,208 Times in 940 Posts	One of the main reasons my experience with a defective boat was different is because I purchased it in Massachusetts. Massachusetts (With all of its faults) has some good consumer protection laws. I am sure your lawyer in New Hampshire will be aware of the consumer protection laws that can be utilized. In MA General Laws Section 9: (3A) "A person may assert a claim under this section in a district court, whether by way of original complaint, counterclaim, cross-claim or third-party action, for money damages only. Said damages may include double or treble damages, attorneys' fees and costs, as herein provided." I repeatedly pointed out that if a satisfactory deal was not offered then I would be entitled to triple damages. Three times the cost of a boat and trailer amounted to a significant number. The only reason someone will make a decent settlement offer to you is if they realize that the alternative, via bad publicity and a court order, will potentially cost them even more.

06-01-2020, 06:17 PM	#6
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,027 Thanks: 708 Thanked 2,208 Times in 940 Posts	Why not send a link to this thread to the people you are dealing with at SeaRay and every upper level person you can get an email for. There should be links available for investor relations, advertising, Etc. Bomb them with emails and they will get forwarded internally to people in a decision making capacity who you may not be able to get to on your own. They won't be pleased to see the extensive amount of bad publicity they are getting on a very active and popular website. In the past WMUR has done some consumer affairs/complaints stories. Call and ask them if they would like to do a story about this. Their reporter standing in front of the dealership you bought it at might result in some additional pressure on SeaRay. Ask the Laconia Sun if they would like to do a story of local interest. They may decline if significant advertising dollars come from the dealer but it never hurts to ask. It might give the dealer additional incentive to call the higher ups at SeaRay and demand that they fix this.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TiltonBB For This Useful Post:
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06-02-2020, 01:05 PM	#10
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,774 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,020 Posts	Too bad there isn't a Sea Ray discussion somewhere on Facebook. John Deere was on there a while ago and I complained about my shift on my Gator. Previously I had it picked up by the dealer and nothing was done. They told me they shifted hard. Hard? You couldn't shift it! So John Deere told me to call them and eventually it ended up getting fixed with JD, dealer and us all paying one third. This is making a long story short, but I wanted you to know that they do care when they think a lot of people are seeing issues.

06-02-2020, 01:11 PM	#11
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,774 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,020 Posts	Too bad there isn't a Sea Ray discussion somewhere on Facebook. John Deere was on there a while ago and I complained about my shift on my Gator. Previously I had it picked up by the dealer and nothing was done. They told me they shifted hard. Hard? You couldn't shift it! So John Deere told me to call them and eventually it ended up getting fixed with JD, dealer and us all paying one third. This is making a long story short, but I wanted you to know that they don't like it when it becomes public.

06-09-2020, 06:20 AM	#17
Cal Coon Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 475 Thanks: 179 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	This is so unfortunate. I just don't understand how something like this can happen. Especially since the boat is still under warranty, ( I believe you said in an earlier post).

06-09-2020, 03:46 PM	#18
Bootkie2 Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 34 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	There's a 270 SDX at PBM for sale......."runs great, floats well" https://paugusbaymarina.com/boats-fo...a-ray-sdx-270/ Someone probably read this thread and traded it for a Formula ASAP before things hit the fan. In all honesty (joking aside) this is terrible and I hope you get it resolved quickly. Thanks for sharing with us.

06-09-2020, 07:39 PM	#19
Woody38 Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 578 Thanks: 46 Thanked 110 Times in 81 Posts	If you are a membr of BOAT/US they would go to bat for you and SeaRay surely would listen. They represent a huge segment of the boating population which manufacturers understand that they stand to lose business. _________________________________________ I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

The Following User Says Thank You to Woody38 For This Useful Post:
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06-15-2020, 12:45 PM	#25
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,774 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,020 Posts	Do you really think all Sea Rays are terrible now? It was such a nice quality boat that I would hate to think it isn't anymore. Maybe this was just a lemon?

06-15-2020, 05:11 PM	#26
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,774 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,020 Posts	That's very sad to hear. Sea Ray used to be such a great company, it sounds like things have changed a lot.

06-15-2020, 06:46 PM	#27
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,774 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,020 Posts	As I said, when we toured the Merritt Island Sea Ray Factory a few years ago they were so into quality control. I wonder if things changed when they closed that. Not even sure if they closed all of it but I don't think Sea Rays are made there any more.

06-16-2020, 10:05 PM	#28
Tuckntruck Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 29 Thanks: 5 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Looks like there may be some positive traction/news. I guess fingers crossed.

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thinkxingu (06-17-2020)

06-24-2020, 07:47 AM	#30
Tuckntruck Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 29 Thanks: 5 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Well, it’s been a long process, however the Marina pushed the OEM to an acceptable resolution. I’ve since gone through and deleted my posts, and will be asking a MOD to delete the thread. It took a lot of work, however at this point we are happy with the resolution. Thank you for the inputs and suggestions, appreciate it, Tuck. See you all out on the lake (probably just not in the weekends!)

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tuckntruck For This Useful Post:
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