Illegal Rafting Enforcement, Operation Dry Water

[Marine Patrol]

As the 4th of July holiday approaches, the New Hampshire State Police-Marine Patrol Unit is asking boaters who frequent regulated rafting areas to assist us by complying with the anchoring requirements in these areas.

In recent years, the number of boaters using the rafting areas on our lakes has increased significantly. Areas on Lake Winnipesaukee such as Braun Bay, Small's Cove, and Wentworth Cove to name a few, have also seen an increase in violations of the state's rafting laws.

As many know, high concentrations of anchored boats in a confined area also creates safety issues for boaters and swimmers. Very recently, first responders were significantly delayed from reaching a person suffering from a medical emergency due to illegal boat anchoring practices. Propeller injuries, diving accidents, and alcohol related medical emergencies are also common in these areas.

This weekend, Marine Patrol Officers will be focusing on the enforcement of rafting regulations and Operation Dry Water, a national awareness and enforcement campaign focused on reducing the number of alcohol and drug related accidents and fatalities on the water. We are asking everyone to do their part by complying with state laws while sharing good times with family and friends.

Please see the attached rafting regulations and illustration to assist those wishing to anchor in a regulated area.

I wish you all an enjoyable holiday weekend on the water.

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Captain,
NH State Police
Marine Patrol Unit

[WinnisquamZ]

Interesting, is the Dive up and running yet?


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[Thundra]

It sure is nice knowing Marine Patrol will be out there making sure everyone stays safe and can provide help if/when needed.

I'll be happy to not be anywhere near that mass of boating insanity that is a fourth of July Saturday.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Marine Patrol

As the 4th of July holiday approaches, the New Hampshire State Police-Marine Patrol Unit is asking boaters who frequent regulated rafting areas to assist us by complying with the anchoring requirements in these areas.

In recent years, the number of boaters using the rafting areas on our lakes has increased significantly. Areas on Lake Winnipesaukee such as Braun Bay, Small's Cove, and Wentworth Cove to name a few, have also seen an increase in violations of the state's rafting laws.

As many know, high concentrations of anchored boats in a confined area also creates safety issues for boaters and swimmers. Very recently, first responders were significantly delayed from reaching a person suffering from a medical emergency due to illegal boat anchoring practices. Propeller injuries, diving accidents, and alcohol related medical emergencies are also common in these areas.

This weekend, Marine Patrol Officers will be focusing on the enforcement of rafting regulations and Operation Dry Water, a national awareness and enforcement campaign focused on reducing the number of alcohol and drug related accidents and fatalities on the water. We are asking everyone to do their part by complying with state laws while sharing good times with family and friends.

Please see the attached rafting regulations and illustration to assist those wishing to anchor in a regulated area.

I wish you all an enjoyable holiday weekend on the water.

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Captain,
NH State Police
Marine Patrol Unit

Captain Dunleavy, thanks for the notification and for the graphic on protocol...

[tis]

I hope the officers have been advised of the rules. The last time I talked to one he didn't realize about the distance rules. 25', 50', 150'.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Marine Patrol

As the 4th of July holiday approaches, the New Hampshire State Police-Marine Patrol Unit is asking boaters who frequent regulated rafting areas to assist us by complying with the anchoring requirements in these areas.

In recent years, the number of boaters using the rafting areas on our lakes has increased significantly. Areas on Lake Winnipesaukee such as Braun Bay, Small's Cove, and Wentworth Cove to name a few, have also seen an increase in violations of the state's rafting laws.

As many know, high concentrations of anchored boats in a confined area also creates safety issues for boaters and swimmers. Very recently, first responders were significantly delayed from reaching a person suffering from a medical emergency due to illegal boat anchoring practices. Propeller injuries, diving accidents, and alcohol related medical emergencies are also common in these areas.

This weekend, Marine Patrol Officers will be focusing on the enforcement of rafting regulations and Operation Dry Water, a national awareness and enforcement campaign focused on reducing the number of alcohol and drug related accidents and fatalities on the water. We are asking everyone to do their part by complying with state laws while sharing good times with family and friends.

Please see the attached rafting regulations and illustration to assist those wishing to anchor in a regulated area.

I wish you all an enjoyable holiday weekend on the water.

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Captain,
NH State Police
Marine Patrol Unit

Thank you for the helpful information. I have a question. Is rafting (tying up two boats) allowed in Advent cove? The list you provided says yes, but it is my understanding it isn't. Would you mind clarifying? Thanks!

[P-3 Guy]

"No anchoring within 150' of shore in all regulated rafting areas."

Question: if a single boat is anchoring in an area that is not a regulated rafting area, is there a minimum distance that must be maintained from shore?

[Marine Patrol]

To answer questions from Major and TMI Guy-

Saf-C 407.03 Prohibited Areas.

(a) Rafting, as defined in RSA 270:42, V, shall be prohibited on the following portions of Lake Winnipesaukee, unless covered by one of the exceptions specified in RSA 270:45:

(1) The area known as Kona Mansion, in the town of Moultonborough, east of an imaginary line running north and south from the red top mark buoy located on the western tip of Avery's Point on the south to the Kona Farm gas docks on the north;

(2) Small's Cove in the town of Alton, southwest of an imaginary line running southeast-northwest from light 75 on the northwestern end to the northernmost point of land marking the entrance to the first cove, south of Small's Cove on the south;

(3) Wentworth Cove, southwest of Governor's Island Bridge west of an imaginary north-south line, running from light 43 on the north to the black top buoy, located off Wentworth Cove Estates on the south;

(4) Braun Bay, within 300 feet of both fish and game property lines, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;

(5) Braun Bay, at a distance less than 75 feet from shore, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;

(6) The area known as Cedar Cove, specifically identified as the area opposite Plum Island which borders the town of Alton tax map 18, lot numbers 12 through 20 and 55;

(7) The area of Winter Harbor from the southern boundary of the town of Tuftonboro tax map 51, block 3, lot number 14 to the southern boundary of tax map 51, block 1, lot number 20;

(8) The entire area known as Green’s Basin in the town of Moultonborough;

(9) Orchard Cove, on the east side of Cow Island, in the town of Tuftonboro;

(10) The entire area known as Buzzell Cove in the town of Moultonborough;

(11) Brickyard Cove, south of an imaginary line running about 2,300 feet from the northern tip of Clay Point to the southern tip of Barndoor Island;

(12) The entire area known as Black Cove, in the town of Meredith, encompassing an area in Meredith tax map S-7, east from the northern most point of Lot 5-1 to the southeastern most point of Lot 1;

(13) The entire area known as East Cove in the town of Moultonborough;

(14) The entire area known as Advent Cove in the town of Meredith;

(15) Roberts Cove, in the town of Alton, east of an imaginary line running north to south from the westerly boundary of lot 41 on tax map 48 to the westerly boundary of lot 1 on tax map 48; and

(16) The entire areas known as Round Cove, Fish Cove, and Flag Cove in the town of Meredith.

Exceptions are for boats congregated for fireworks, kids camps activities, etc.


Boats can anchor closer than 150' from shore when not in a regulated area. They can't pose a hazard to navigation or impede the navigational/recreational use of the public waters of another.

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Captain,
NH State Police-
Marine Patrol Unit

[Major]

Originally Posted by Marine Patrol

To answer questions from

Saf-C 407.03 Prohibited Areas.

(a) Rafting, as defined in RSA 270:42, V, shall be prohibited on the following portions of Lake Winnipesaukee, unless covered by one of the exceptions specified in RSA 270:45:

(1) The area known as Kona Mansion, in the town of Moultonborough, east of an imaginary line running north and south from the red top mark buoy located on the western tip of Avery's Point on the south to the Kona Farm gas docks on the north;

(2) Small's Cove in the town of Alton, southwest of an imaginary line running southeast-northwest from light 75 on the northwestern end to the northernmost point of land marking the entrance to the first cove, south of Small's Cove on the south;

(3) Wentworth Cove, southwest of Governor's Island Bridge west of an imaginary north-south line, running from light 43 on the north to the black top buoy, located off Wentworth Cove Estates on the south;

(4) Braun Bay, within 300 feet of both fish and game property lines, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;

(5) Braun Bay, at a distance less than 75 feet from shore, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;

(6) The area known as Cedar Cove, specifically identified as the area opposite Plum Island which borders the town of Alton tax map 18, lot numbers 12 through 20 and 55;

(7) The area of Winter Harbor from the southern boundary of the town of Tuftonboro tax map 51, block 3, lot number 14 to the southern boundary of tax map 51, block 1, lot number 20;

(8) The entire area known as Green’s Basin in the town of Moultonborough;

(9) Orchard Cove, on the east side of Cow Island, in the town of Tuftonboro;

(10) The entire area known as Buzzell Cove in the town of Moultonborough;

(11) Brickyard Cove, south of an imaginary line running about 2,300 feet from the northern tip of Clay Point to the southern tip of Barndoor Island;

(12) The entire area known as Black Cove, in the town of Meredith, encompassing an area in Meredith tax map S-7, east from the northern most point of Lot 5-1 to the southeastern most point of Lot 1;

(13) The entire area known as East Cove in the town of Moultonborough;

(14) The entire area known as Advent Cove in the town of Meredith;

(15) Roberts Cove, in the town of Alton, east of an imaginary line running north to south from the westerly boundary of lot 41 on tax map 48 to the westerly boundary of lot 1 on tax map 48; and

(16) The entire areas known as Round Cove, Fish Cove, and Flag Cove in the town of Meredith.

Exceptions are for boats congregated for fireworks, kids camps activities, etc.


Boats can anchor closer than 150' from shore when not in a regulated area. They can't pose a hazard to navigation or impede the navigational/recreational use of the public waters of another.

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Captain,
NH State Police-
Marine Patrol Unit

Okay. I thought that was the case. Thanks!

[Susie Cougar]

How does an area become prohibited?

I am specifically curious about the area known as Kona Mansion. I remember many years ago when Lauris Avery and Ruth Hanks had issues with boats anchoring off their property.
I know they both had a lot of problems and now boats are not allowed there anymore. How exactly did that happen?
Were they re-directed into Braun Bay and is this how that Sandbar became so popular?

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

How does an area become prohibited?

I am specifically curious about the area known as Kona Mansion. I remember many years ago when Lauris Avery and Ruth Hanks had issues with boats anchoring off their property.
I know they both had a lot of problems and now boats are not allowed there anymore. How exactly did that happen?
Were they re-directed into Braun Bay and is this how that Sandbar became so popular?

I take the "Prohibited Areas" as prohibiting rafting. I see nothing that prohibits a single boat from anchoring anywhere on the lake, as long as the boat doesn't pose a hazard to navigation or impede the navigational/recreational use of the public waters of another.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Interesting, is the Dive up and running yet?


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I saw it last night from a distance, under way in Gilford.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I saw it last night from a distance, under way in Gilford.

It looked like it was heading for the Weirs.

Alan

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

It looked like it was heading for the Weirs.

Alan

Which way is it going? Around Governor's or under the Bridge?

(Now there's an image. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! )

Dave

[Tuckntruck]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

How does an area become prohibited?

I am specifically curious about the area known as Kona Mansion. I remember many years ago when Lauris Avery and Ruth Hanks had issues with boats anchoring off their property.
I know they both had a lot of problems and now boats are not allowed there anymore. How exactly did that happen?
Were they re-directed into Braun Bay and is this how that Sandbar became so popular?

Boats are allowed, you can anchor a single boat just like anywhere else. It’s a prohibition on rafting. I grew up spending summers there, on Catlin Estates Rd/Colby Rd. Grandparents owned the property with the gazebo. (House is gone, gazebo is still there). It was never as big as BB is though.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Tuckntruck

Boats are allowed, you can anchor a single boat just like anywhere else. It’s a prohibition on rafting. I grew up spending summers there, on Catlin Estates Rd/Colby Rd. Grandparents owned the property with the gazebo. (House is gone, gazebo is still there). It was never as big as BB is though.

Thanks. My parents lived on Long Point. They are now deceased, but my sister and her husband still are permanent residents.

I think you’re probably quite a bit younger than I am, but for a very short time around 1974 to 1976, I lived in the second house on Long Point Road, right behind the Catlin Estates.

[thinkxingu]

This makes me want to protest every NRZ.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

This makes me want to protest every NRZ.

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Sort of backwards. The real issue is what Hillcountry pointed out on a similar thread--people abuse things, then they get taken away. Maybe the better thing to do would be to enjoy beautiful spots one boat at time, with 5 or 6 of your best friends, instead of 20 or 30, or 200 or 300

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Sort of backwards. The real issue is what Hillcountry pointed out on a similar thread--people abuse things, then they get taken away. Maybe the better thing to do would be to enjoy beautiful spots one boat at time, with 5 or 6 of your best friends, instead of 20 or 30, or 200 or 300

Circular. Reducing the places to go increases the number of people in fewer spots. And what's the rationale for most of these? That landowners don't want boats in front of their property?

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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Circular. Reducing the places to go increases the number of people in fewer spots. And what's the rationale for most of these? That landowners don't want boats in front of their property?

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Anyone that owns waterfront on the lake knows they do not own exclusive rights to the water in front of their property. I believe the “rationale” for not wanting boats in front of their property lies in the behavior of the occupants of any boats that may choose to anchor there. We all know that “behavior” runs the gamut from pleasant and respectful to varying degrees of less than pleasant.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Anyone that owns waterfront on the lake knows they do not own exclusive rights to the water in front of their property. I believe the “rationale” for not wanting boats in front of their property lies in the behavior of the occupants of any boats that may choose to anchor there. We all know that “behavior” runs the gamut from pleasant and respectful to varying degrees of less than pleasant.

Semantics. So we shut down public places because others might not agree 100% with how they're used?

I don't like people hiking with Bluetooth speakers—should we shut down a percentage of trails?

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Circular. Reducing the places to go increases the number of people in fewer spots. And what's the rationale for most of these? That landowners don't want boats in front of their property?

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I didn't say to reduce the number of places to go, and I do not mind boats in front of my property. I said people shouldn't be abusive. But I do admit I find rafting almost inherently abusive/intrusive.

On a related note, I think you've mentioned that your home is in Hanson's Cove. Is part of your position that you'd welcome rafting next door in Greens Basin?

[tis]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I didn't say to reduce the number of places to go, and I do not mind boats in front of my property. I said people shouldn't be abusive. But I do admit I find rafting almost inherently abusive/intrusive.

On a related note, I think you've mentioned that your home is in Hanson's Cove. Is part of your position that you'd welcome rafting next door in Greens Basin?

I agree. I am so sick and tired of this attitude. We pay a LOT in property taxes-a lot more than these people who say they come and boat and buy gas and groceries and beer so spend money in the state. This argument that the state owns the lake although true, is getting old. For those taxes we pay, we deserve peace and quiet and should be able to be outside to enjoy it. Again, I wonder how these boaters would like it if 50 cars had a big loud party on their sidewalk in front of their house. And please don't say we are entitled. A few boats with people enjoying a swim is fine, but when they are inconsiderate it is just plain disgusting. This feud between property owners and boaters is scary. I know I will be attacked for this but I had to say it.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

I agree. I am so sick and tired of this attitude. We pay a LOT in property taxes-a lot more than these people who say they come and boat and buy gas and groceries and beer so spend money in the state. This argument that the state owns the lake although true, is getting old. For those taxes we pay, we deserve peace and quiet and should be able to be outside to enjoy it. Again, I wonder how these boaters would like it if 50 cars had a big loud party on their sidewalk in front of their house. And please don't say we are entitled. A few boats with people enjoying a swim is fine, but when they are inconsiderate it is just plain disgusting. This feud between property owners and boaters is scary. I know I will be attacked for this but I had to say it.

I don't overall disagree with you—the root problem here is inconsiderate people. My problem is two-fold: 1. That areas get taken away, making other areas more populated and problematic. So, people squish into Braun Bay, Small's Cove, etc. because Kona Bay and others are closed or heavily defended by homeowners who "own" the waterfront. 2. A core part of that equation, and the ability to exert influence, revolves around $$$.

I don't always agree with Sununu, but I'll forever remember that he never shut NH's natural spaces down during the CV-19 pandemic...even when they were being treated imperfectly by users.

Find solutions, don't take access away—that will forever be my mantra.

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[tis]

You are right, it is inconsiderate people. But this year there seem to be more of them than ever. I don't really think areas have been taken away, just limited, to avoid the very problem we are talking about. There is so much room to spread out on the lake, I don't understand why people have to congregate in clumps in certain areas. You would think they come here for peace and quiet yet I guess they feel the need to not be isolated. When you get 20 or 500 boats all in one area, even if they are trying to be considerate it is bound to be loud.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

You are right, it is inconsiderate people. But this year there seem to be more of them than ever. I don't really think areas have been taken away, just limited, to avoid the very problem we are talking about. There is so much room to spread out on the lake, I don't understand why people have to congregate in clumps in certain areas. You would think they come here for peace and quiet yet I guess they feel the need to not be isolated. When you get 20 or 500 boats all in one area, even if they are trying to be considerate it is bound to be loud.

It's certainly a numbers game—the same thing applies to boating in general (look at all the "Captain Bonehead" threads).

What I don't understand are THESE people (circled). Like, why be there if you ain't even at the sandbar!

Take care, friend!

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[ishoot308]

We took a ride to Braun Bay just to see how many people were there. I have never seen that many boats / people there before, It was packed and there were 5 marine patrol boats and a couple on jets skis as well!

Dan

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

It's certainly a numbers game—the same thing applies to boating in general (look at all the "Captain Bonehead" threads).

What I don't understand are THESE people (circled). Like, why be there if you ain't even at the sandbar!

Take care, friend!Attachment 16185

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Think it’s called a waiting line

[Phantom]

In fairness to Capt Dunleavy - although I was not at Braun Bay (not my thing) from many Marina neighbors, MP did NOT show up in “force” ie 5 boats until very late in the afternoon.

Seems to me, much a-do about nothing. They were doing their job.

No news about Small’s Cove ? Another area that they typically enforce heavily or the other numerous “NRZ” on the Capt’s clear warning prior to the weekend.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

We took a ride to Braun Bay just to see how many people were there. I have never seen that many boats / people there before, It was packed and there were 5 marine patrol boats and a couple on jets skis as well!

Dan

I was surprised to see the jet skis on a lift setup on the back of the big MP boat. Never noticed that before.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by tis

I agree. I am so sick and tired of this attitude. We pay a LOT in property taxes-a lot more than these people who say they come and boat and buy gas and groceries and beer so spend money in the state. This argument that the state owns the lake although true, is getting old. For those taxes we pay, we deserve peace and quiet and should be able to be outside to enjoy it. Again, I wonder how these boaters would like it if 50 cars had a big loud party on their sidewalk in front of their house. And please don't say we are entitled. A few boats with people enjoying a swim is fine, but when they are inconsiderate it is just plain disgusting. This feud between property owners and boaters is scary. I know I will be attacked for this but I had to say it.

Perhaps you should have thought of that BEFORE you bought expensive property that borders a State park....


Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Semantics. So we shut down public places because others might not agree 100% with how they're used?

I don't like people hiking with Bluetooth speakers—should we shut down a percentage of trails?

Trails can be "rotated".

[tis]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Perhaps you should have thought of that BEFORE you bought expensive property that borders a State park....


Woodsy

I bought here long before rafting was even a thing.

[Woodsy]

You still bought expensive property that borders a public park.... you can't really complain about how the public chooses to use their park.

All of the overcrowding issues boil down to the marinas, who in order to stay in business sell/store/valet more and more boats every year. Its rare to find a slip on the lake, and if you do its $5k.... and people are in line to pay it. The downside of a good economy.

Woodsy

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

You still bought expensive property that borders a public park.... you can't really complain about how the public chooses to use their park.

All of the overcrowding issues boil down to the marinas, who in order to stay in business sell/store/valet more and more boats every year. Its rare to find a slip on the lake, and if you do its $5k.... and people are in line to pay it. The downside of a good economy. Woodsy

Are there really more boats? About 12-15 years ago there were 104,000 boats registered in NH. In 2008-2009 the numbers dropped into the low or mid 90's. Woodsy is right, access is not cheap, but those who have access are buying more boats (2-3 to a family) and with low fuel prices and a desire to get out of the house after a shut in winter, we're going to see more activity all summer, I think. Anybody know if marina gas sales are up a lot? Total boat registrations?

[Woodsy]

Almost every major marina on the lake has built new valet facilities.... and they all have waiting lists! Winni Marine in the channel tore down a boathouse and put in docks instead. I think they added 10-15 new slips to their capacity. (mostly rental boats from what I can tell)

According to a friend I have in the marine transport business, they have been bringing boats back here to Winni from all over the country as the demand for boats both new & used has been unreal.

I can't wait to see what the boat registration numbers are this year!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Almost every major marina on the lake has built new valet facilities.... and they all have waiting lists! Winni Marine in the channel tore down a boathouse and put in docks instead. I think they added 10-15 new slips to their capacity. (mostly rental boats from what I can tell)

According to a friend I have in the marine transport business, they have been bringing boats back here to Winni from all over the country as the demand for boats both new & used has been unreal.

I can't wait to see what the boat registration numbers are this year!

It is indeed going to be interesting to see the numbers this year. However I am not so sure that they are going to be all that high..... While I think more boats are getting transported here..... I think that you will find the following things off set that:

- Dealers, don't seem to be keeping a huge inventory of new boats like they used to
- Dealers tend to sell there used inventory out very early in the season.
- There are a number of boats leaving the area
- With the internet, it is much easier to find what you are looking for, and people are willing to search the country, instead of taking something that isn't quite what they want, but is local.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

It is indeed going to be interesting to see the numbers this year. However I am not so sure that they are going to be all that high..... While I think more boats are getting transported here..... I think that you will find the following things off set that:

- Dealers, don't seem to be keeping a huge inventory of new boats like they used to
- Dealers tend to sell there used inventory out very early in the season.
- There are a number of boats leaving the area
- With the internet, it is much easier to find what you are looking for, and people are willing to search the country, instead of taking something that isn't quite what they want, but is local.

The lot across the street from the shop store and office is nearly empty. Early in the year, it was full. Guessing they are having a good year, and perhaps manufacturers are having trouble replenishing.

Dave.

[ishoot308]

The one on lake Boat dealer I spoke with is having a banner year!

Good for them!!

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

You still bought expensive property that borders a public park.... you can't really complain about how the public chooses to use their park.

All of the overcrowding issues boil down to the marinas, who in order to stay in business sell/store/valet more and more boats every year. Its rare to find a slip on the lake, and if you do its $5k.... and people are in line to pay it. The downside of a good economy.

Woodsy

Sure you can complain/argue--on both counts:

All state parks have certain limits on their use. So there's nothing wrong with advocating for limited uses.

On the marinas--is the lake a state park or a business opportunity? We restrict commerce in all state parks. Nothing wrong with restricting here.

But just to be clear--no one is advocating for no boats or no commerce, only reasonable use and neighborly consideration and manners

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

You still bought expensive property that borders a public park.... you can't really complain about how the public chooses to use their park.
Woodsy

You can’t just make that blanket statement. It depends on when he actually bought the property.

[Woodsy]

Except that property owners only own to the high water mark.... and their littoral rights only extend to their docks.

Restrictions on public parks are there to benefit the public.... not the private landowners that abut the park.


Woodsy

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

You can’t just make that blanket statement. It depends on when he actually bought the property.

Sure you can.... the lake has ALWAYS been owned by the public. Doesn't matter when he bought in. As the population grows, so does the usage. I remember when there was next to nothing on the north side of the lake... now its all built out.

Woodsy

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Sure you can.... the lake has ALWAYS been owned by the public. Doesn't matter when he bought in. As the population grows, so does the usage. I remember when there was next to nothing on the north side of the lake... now its all built out.

Woodsy

I understand your point. As a young kid, we were in Hanson Cove. I water skied behind my dad‘s little fishing boat with a 10 hp motor and I was the only one in the entire cove. Of course, as there is less and less property, you would assume that the lake would be built out.
I’m not sure anyone can make the same assumption about the state park land. I don’t know what year it actually became a state park, but by the 1960s, it had not been used for anything.
My father bought, what he always referred to, as the 52 acres, which abuts the state park land. He did not want to buy it but it was part of a package deal. He had always hoped that the state would do something with it. He kept this land for about 15 years until it just became too much of a pain for him to keep it anymore. People used it like the town dump.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

You can’t just make that blanket statement. It depends on when he actually bought the property.

I never in my wildest dreams would believe that anchoring/rafting would become what it has today. I bet you feel the same Susie.

And as to Woodsy I say again that the state (whatever state you live in) owns the edge of your property and the road at your home. I am almost positive you would not like 50 cars to have a party at the edge of your lawn, driveway every day. Drinking, going to the bathroom and throwing trash on your lawn, playing loud music, yelling and screaming, staring at you while you are sitting on your lawn just a few feet away.

I am just glad I don't live anywhere near Braun Bay. And I do hope that the state doesn't allow the rest of the lake to become like that because it will ruin it.

[Susie Cougar]

I don’t know what Long Island beach is like today, but back in the 1960s you could either drive there or boat there and tie up to the small little dock and be the only family on the entire beach.

How could anyone predict that the lake would become so crowded that boats would be anchoring on top of each other?

[tis]

I don't think anyone every imagined it, Susie. You knew it would get busier but who knew so many people would put their boat in for a day or rent a dock space and then go out and sit in a spot on the lake for the day. Unimaginable in the old days.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by tis

I never in my wildest dreams would believe that anchoring/rafting would become what it has today. I bet you feel the same Susie.

And as to Woodsy I say again that the state (whatever state you live in) owns the edge of your property and the road at your home. I am almost positive you would not like 50 cars to have a party at the edge of your lawn, driveway every day. Drinking, going to the bathroom and throwing trash on your lawn, playing loud music, yelling and screaming, staring at you while you are sitting on your lawn just a few feet away.

I am just glad I don't live anywhere near Braun Bay. And I do hope that the state doesn't allow the rest of the lake to become like that because it will ruin it.

I would not buy a house next to a public park..... just because it was quiet when you bought it, doesn't guarantee that progress/change doesn't happen. It is inevitable that as wealth increased, (especially from our neighbors to the south) the usage of the lake would also increase. The marinas are built out when it comes to dock space, so the only way for them to stay in business is to increase the valet/rental services... all of these boats need places to go! Don't get me wrong, I do sympathize, but the lake is a public not private asset.

For the record, I live in the Weirs.... so I am VERY familiar with loud!

Woodsy

[Susie Cougar]

We were never really boat people. For the last 30 years that my parents lived on the lake, they didn’t even own a boat.
My dad just loved sitting in his kitchen looking out the bay window at the beautiful lake and mountains. That’s all that was ever important to him. And if we kids and then his grandkids were swimming in front of the house, then nothing was better.

I’m glad the spot that he built his permanent house on, was not some place that boats wanted to drop anchor. Some people spend a lot of money on privacy and that’s all they want.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

We were never really boat people. For the last 30 years that my parents lived on the lake, they didn’t even own a boat.
My dad just loved sitting in his kitchen looking out the bay window at the beautiful lake and mountains. That’s all that was ever important to him. And if we kids and then his grandkids were swimming in front of the house, then nothing was better.

I’m glad the spot that he built his permanent house on, was not some place that boats wanted to drop anchor. Some people spend a lot of money on privacy and that’s all they want.

After all the bull-crapping in this thread, this really says it all!
Good for you, Susie!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

It's certainly a numbers game—the same thing applies to boating in general (look at all the "Captain Bonehead" threads).

What I don't understand are THESE people (circled). Like, why be there if you ain't even at the sandbar!

Take care, friend!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

WOW, that looks horrible to me, can't imagine any way I would spend 2 minutes there.

I can almost here the hundred different radios blaring bad music in competition against each other.

I would rather inhale a cloud of 2-cycle oil from a 50 year old outboard and listen to a classic open exhaust from a big block jet boat than put up with that.

It looks down right claustrophobic and exactly the opposite of why I enjoy Winnipesaukee.

Guess it shows the spectrum of what people like.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

manners

Hummm,,, is that even a 21st century thing any more,,,

I am shocked at how much more rude some people are these days, and to add to the lack of general manners, the "world revolves around them" types seem to be growing in number.

Recently I have also seen a disturbing trend of line jumpers when waiting for dock space in Alton, Meredith, and Wolfboro. Mostly older guys in smaller and older boats just buzz up and slip in front of you and tell you they were there first. I'm not usually in any rush so I dont argue (much) but it is annoying and leaves a very bad taste in your mouth. And make no mistake, its not just old guys in old boats acting badly,,, I complemented some guy on his boats beautiful metalflake finish and I got an ear-full of super ego blowhard chatter about how much it cost and its the best brand, yada, yada, yada. SO much ego, ZERO humility,,,

The lake used to be much more friendly, now it seems to be full of much more arrogant people who are looking for a fight and as much drama as they can generate in front of their group.

Weekends are just a total scratch for me.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think anyone every imagined it, Susie. You knew it would get busier but who knew so many people would put their boat in for a day or rent a dock space and then go out and sit in a spot on the lake for the day. Unimaginable in the old days.

Not true, in the late 60's and early 70's there were plenty of people doing just that.

We had marinas all over the lake with slips for rent and plenty of people launching all over the lake for day trips. Have we forgotten how many people used the Ames Farm ramp, that was one of the busiest ramps on the south end of the lake.

Does it seem that the number of boaters is much higher? YES, but day boaters are not new to Winnipesaukee, their increase is probably actually lower than the percent of local population growth.

For me the biggest problem is how many inexperienced boaters there are, and how rude people are.

I dont think we had a radio in any of our boats until the late 80's and even today I almost never play mine. I actually enjoy the sound of water slapping the hull and the sound of a marine engine passing in the distance.

Rude people yelling, fighting, throwing cans and bottles of beer back and forth between boats, battle of the radios, and such are just as much the problem as the volume of boaters.

It would be nice if everyone behaved a bit better. Wishful thinking I guess.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Not true, in the late 60's and early 70's there were plenty of people doing just that.

We had marinas all over the lake with slips for rent and plenty of people launching all over the lake for day trips. Have we forgotten how many people used the Ames Farm ramp, that was one of the busiest ramps on the south end of the lake.

Does it seem that the number of boaters is much higher? YES, but day boaters are not new to Winnipesaukee, their increase is probably actually lower than the percent of local population growth.

For me the biggest problem is how many inexperienced boaters there are, and how rude people are.

I dont think we had a radio in any of our boats until the late 80's and even today I almost never play mine. I actually enjoy the sound of water slapping the hull and the sound of a marine engine passing in the distance.

Rude people yelling, fighting, throwing cans and bottles of beer back and forth between boats, battle of the radios, and such are just as much the problem as the volume of boaters.

It would be nice if everyone behaved a bit better. Wishful thinking I guess.

Have to agree on the radio. Always hated when my husband wanted to turn ours on. It's just so lovely to anchor and listen to the sounds of the lake.

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Some people spend a lot of money on privacy and that’s all they want.

Then I think Winnipesaukee was always the wrong place. Other lakes were always much quieter.

My parents went through several lakes in the area before making Winnipesaukee their destination in the late 1950's. And the reason NewFound Lake, Squam Lake, Wentworth and others didnt meet their expectations, not enough going on.

They wanted access to marinas for gas on long all day boating trips (our boats of the 60's and 70's always had those 6 gallon orange/red portable tanks) they wanted destinations (Meredith, Weirs, Wolfboro, Alton) and they wanted to see people on the water having fun. We loved the water ski events, boat races, fireworks by boat (I even remember boating to more than one town to see 2 shows on the same night)

Weekends started with the first spark of the engine and the cloud of smoke and the trip to the marina to fill up the tanks. Then grap the kids, old folks and off to a destination. Some days it would about water sking and the knee boards of the day, or maybe fishing. Water sking would often involve several people behind the boat, something against the law today. Or maybe a boat race up and down Alton Bay, again, unthinkable today.

Winnipesaukee, well at least the south end from Meredith to Wolfboro to Alton, was never a quiet and private place in my lifetime. It was a place to have fun boating and using the lake, but you also always met friendly and respectful people.

You didnt need Sea Tow or any such thing, someone always stopped and if you needed a tow you were taken home, no drama, no wait, and no one ever charged you. It was a pay it forward thing. Just make sure they got home, and be thankful it wasnt you. You actually met nice folks that way!

Wish I could go back in time, it was better for sure, but not quiet or private.

Well thats my memories of Winnipesaukee from my diaper wearing days in 1963 forward.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Have to agree on the radio. Always hated when my husband wanted to turn ours on. It's just so lovely to anchor and listen to the sounds of the lake.

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Not saying I mind it when others play at a modest level, but these boats with the towers and monster speakers are just too much for my taste.

I would rather have no radios than 20+ different full volume rock concerts on the water in the same 200' space ,,,

[8gv]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

That's a good grip right there!

[tis]

People did day trips in the 60s and 70s but not the anchoring in groups to party.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by tis

People did day trips in the 60s and 70s but not the anchoring in groups to party.

As best I recall we anchored, but certainly not as much as people do today, and we never held on the water group events and parties, so you are 100% correct about that, and maybe thats where we intersect, in that it is my observation thats where some of the worst (to me) behavior rears its head. When groups of people meet up and party, they seem to get extra rowdy and rude and loud.

While I can imagine few waterfront homeowners want to see large groups right in front of their homes, it must only add insult to injury to have a loud - drunk - rowdy - rude group playing competing battle of the bands on their million watt stadium speaker equipped boats and leaving trash and bedlam behind until even they have had enough.

Someone in this thread mentioned manners and for me thats the biggest problem. If even large numbers of people are modest, respectful, pleasant, polite, and maybe even a little bit humble, I think a lot of the problems would moderate. Not all, but many.

In the end, this is evolution and change and most of us dont like fast and significant change and thats exactly what we are seeing.

I would happily turn the clock back to 1970, but thats not happening so how do we improve the current situation?

Its hard to teach manners and the concept of respect and humility to adults that are already very self-absorbed and me first-centric people.

Signed; cranky old guy,,, ;-)

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by 8gv

That's a good grip right there!

I suspect with my cloth 1963 model diaper, I would have gone right to the bottom if not for that grip.

I look at that boat and think it would make a good dinghy for most of the boats you see on Winnipesaukee today.

And yet our family didnt get its first boat over 20' until the 1990's

Amazing how different the world is. Back then 30 - 35 MPH was an average good top speed and we didnt have a boat that would break 50MPH until I bought a Glastron Carlson CVX 20 about 20/25 years ago. Today, almost every boat sold goes 50 MPH and too many are driven by people who have never owned a boat before. Even today, if you pulled an average speed off my GPS, it would probably still read 30 MPH ;-)

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by tis

I agree. I am so sick and tired of this attitude. We pay a LOT in property taxes-a lot more than these people who say they come and boat and buy gas and groceries and beer so spend money in the state. This argument that the state owns the lake although true, is getting old. For those taxes we pay, we deserve peace and quiet and should be able to be outside to enjoy it. Again, I wonder how these boaters would like it if 50 cars had a big loud party on their sidewalk in front of their house. And please don't say we are entitled. A few boats with people enjoying a swim is fine, but when they are inconsiderate it is just plain disgusting. This feud between property owners and boaters is scary. I know I will be attacked for this but I had to say it.

I’m just going to say one more thing and then that’s it.
Many people save year after year with the goal of living on the lake. Although there may be some people who would be classified as rich, most people that I know have sacrificed greatly for the right to live there.

Everyone on this forum seems to own multiple boats and jet skis and other things for having fun. Some of you seem to be going out to eat on a regular basis instead of just going out to celebrate something.
People who live at the lake are seen as somehow entitled. Others think that they could never own a property on the lake so they have no problem justifying dropping anchor in front of somebody else’s home.
My sister and her husband, who are permanent residents and will be retiring this year, have lived on the lake since the 1980s. My sister was in restaurant management and my brother-in-law has his own small one-man construction company. They worked their butts off for a goal that was very important to them.
They were just average working class people who set aside their immediate wants for things that were truly important to them.
We were brought up to work for what we want and not to take what someone else has.

Go ahead and attack me.