Camp Winaukee? Need Surveillance!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The issue is two-fold, but neither of what you're complaining about: 1. The cost to provide safety vs. the cost to operate the facility and 2. The likelihood that many families would pull their kids, leaving camps in the lurch.

For example, Scout camps were a go until a survey showed that as many as 50% of the parents might not send their scouts if the "safety mechanisms" were inadequate. The problem at the time, mid-June—only a couple weeks before the start of camp—was that the camps didn't even really know what they'd have to do. It was a mess.

Now that the guidelines are set, camps can rent to groups that can/want to meet those, but it's far too late to create a summer program.

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Not a complaint, just an observation.

To your first point, and not being argumentative, if the camp cannot operate safely or provide adequate safe guards in place in time to open how is it a renter can in their place assuming that they themselves should conduct themselves to the same standards? Consider a renter has to import all those "safety" mechanisms. Never mind pointing out the where did they come from, a place already with a high concentration of virus so this just invites them to spread it? What an outrage (rolling my eyes the sarcasm of my statement)

To your second point that is a reality however interesting that an organization from out of state can pull that feat off and bring in enough kids\adults or whatever to make it viable.

Frankly I don't care - I just find it ironic that those that wag their finger at everyone you must wear a mask you must social distance, you must comply turn a blind eye to allowing a group of individuals from who knows where to operate a camp that would otherwise be closed and possibly not allowed where they come from. It's not just here either, the AMC three mile island facility is supposed to be closed yet they continue to operate and just this morning brought a boat load of people over. Just interesting how it's a matter of do what I say not as I do.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Not a complaint, just an observation.

To your first point, and not being argumentative, if the camp cannot operate safely or provide adequate safe guards in place in time to open how is it a renter can in their place assuming that they themselves should conduct themselves to the same standards? Consider a renter has to import all those "safety" mechanisms. Never mind pointing out the where did they come from, a place already with a high concentration of virus so this just invites them to spread it? What an outrage (rolling my eyes the sarcasm of my statement)

To your second point that is a reality however interesting that an organization from out of state can pull that feat off and bring in enough kids\adults or whatever to make it viable.

Frankly I don't care - I just find it ironic that those that wag their finger at everyone you must wear a mask you must social distance, you must comply turn a blind eye to allowing a group of individuals from who knows where to operate a camp that would otherwise be closed and possibly not allowed where they come from. It's not just here either, the AMC three mile island facility is supposed to be closed yet they continue to operate and just this morning brought a boat load of people over. Just interesting how it's a matter of do what I say not as I do.

I'm interested about Three Mile. I saw some of the volunteers over at Shep's yesterday and asked them what was going on. I was told that Three Mile is closed to the public, but there are volunteers on the island doing maintenance projects.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I'm interested about Three Mile. I saw some of the volunteers over at Shep's yesterday and asked them what was going on. I was told that Three Mile is closed to the public, but there are volunteers on the island doing maintenance projects.

Ah yes "volunteers doing maintenance". Did you also happen to notice the volume of alcohol that was going over there?

Just sayin....

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Not a complaint, just an observation.

To your first point, and not being argumentative, if the camp cannot operate safely or provide adequate safe guards in place in time to open how is it a renter can in their place assuming that they themselves should conduct themselves to the same standards? Consider a renter has to import all those "safety" mechanisms. Never mind pointing out the where did they come from, a place already with a high concentration of virus so this just invites them to spread it? What an outrage (rolling my eyes the sarcasm of my statement)

To your second point that is a reality however interesting that an organization from out of state can pull that feat off and bring in enough kids\adults or whatever to make it viable.

Frankly I don't care - I just find it ironic that those that wag their finger at everyone you must wear a mask you must social distance, you must comply turn a blind eye to allowing a group of individuals from who knows where to operate a camp that would otherwise be closed and possibly not allowed where they come from. It's not just here either, the AMC three mile island facility is supposed to be closed yet they continue to operate and just this morning brought a boat load of people over. Just interesting how it's a matter of do what I say not as I do.

It's significantly different taking a group in for one week than running a whole summer. For example, I take my father-daughter group to Cody every year. We have about 30 people and share the camp with an MIT or similar program that has about 50. To do that week, Cody has no more than 5 people on staff because each group does all but cook and do maintenance.

Compare that to a week at Cody during the summer, when there are way more cooks, cleaners, activities staff, waterfront staff, boating staff, welcome/hospitality staff, etc.

I'm sorry if my tone was adversarial—just pointing out that it's not as "bad" as your original post sounded like you were making it out to be.

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[ishoot308]

Not to hijack but if kids camps must remained closed....I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why it's perfectly acceptable to fly in a completely full airplane shoulder to shoulder...

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Not to hijack but if kids camps must remained closed....I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why it's perfectly acceptable to fly in a completely full airplane shoulder to shoulder...

Dan

Camps don't have to remain closed. The guidelines just came too late for many to have figured out how to make it work.

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Camps don't have to remain closed. The guidelines just came too late for many to have figured out how to make it work.

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OK....I’ll keep it simple, why is it OK and acceptable to fly in a completely full airplane shoulder to shoulder for well over two months now... 300 people in a tube! I won’t mention anything about camps, restaurants being closed or very limited seating, Movie theaters, churches not open, etc, etc. I just would like an answer about airplanes, nothing else....

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

OK....I’ll keep it simple, why is it OK and acceptable to fly in a completely full airplane shoulder to shoulder for well over two months now... 300 people in a tube! I won’t mention anything about camps, restaurants being closed or very limited seating, Movie theaters, churches not open, etc, etc. I just would like an answer about airplanes, nothing else....

Dan

I don't know. This thread is about camps, which I have experience with.

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I don't know. This thread is about camps, which I have experience with.

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Sorry not trying to hijack...my bad!

Dan

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

OK....I’ll keep it simple, why is it OK and acceptable to fly in a completely full airplane shoulder to shoulder for well over two months now... 300 people in a tube! I won’t mention anything about camps, restaurants being closed or very limited seating, Movie theaters, churches not open, etc, etc. I just would like an answer about airplanes, nothing else....

Dan
My theory on the airlines being open and continuing business as usual, is like Major has said in other posts...they are of the status of the “anointed ones” just like demonstrators, statue topplers and the big box stores, etc.
God forbid the government let any of these “essential” business die while killing thousands of others that didn’t make the anointed list.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Not a complaint, just an observation.

To your first point, and not being argumentative, if the camp cannot operate safely or provide adequate safe guards in place in time to open how is it a renter can in their place assuming that they themselves should conduct themselves to the same standards? Consider a renter has to import all those "safety" mechanisms. Never mind pointing out the where did they come from, a place already with a high concentration of virus so this just invites them to spread it? What an outrage (rolling my eyes the sarcasm of my statement)

To your second point that is a reality however interesting that an organization from out of state can pull that feat off and bring in enough kids\adults or whatever to make it viable.

Frankly I don't care - I just find it ironic that those that wag their finger at everyone you must wear a mask you must social distance, you must comply turn a blind eye to allowing a group of individuals from who knows where to operate a camp that would otherwise be closed and possibly not allowed where they come from. It's not just here either, the AMC three mile island facility is supposed to be closed yet they continue to operate and just this morning brought a boat load of people over. Just interesting how it's a matter of do what I say not as I do.

You make it sound like one central authority is making the decision for all. But that is not the case.

The owners of Winaukee have decided that they do not want to accept responsibility for the health and happiness of a few hundred kids this Summer. That is their right to do so.

The owners of Winaukee have also decided that if someone else wants to accept responsibility for kids this Summer, then they are perfectly free to do that.

So the business owners of Winaukee have made two business decisions that they believe are in their best interest. Separately, a religious group has decided to set up a camp for some kids. Through the magic of the market, both are now better off.

Good freedom loving person that you are, isn't this how you'd like for it to work?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You make it sound like one central authority is making the decision for all. But that is not the case.

The owners of Winaukee have decided that they do not want to accept responsibility for the health and happiness of a few hundred kids this Summer. That is their right to do so.

The owners of Winaukee have also decided that if someone else wants to accept responsibility for kids this Summer, then they are perfectly free to do that.

So the business owners of Winaukee have made two business decisions that they believe are in their best interest. Separately, a religious group has decided to set up a camp for some kids. Through the magic of the market, both are now better off.

Good freedom loving person that you are, isn't this how you'd like for it to work?

Read my post again please - what did I say, "Frankly I don't care" and honestly I don't. I think it's great.

Do find it interesting that you and others who insist we all take this more seriously don't have a problem with this.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Read my post again please - what did I say, "Frankly I don't care" and honestly I don't. I think it's great.

Do find it interesting that you and others who insist we all take this more seriously don't have a problem with this.

My bad, I did not believe that a person who did not care would post something. So I thought that you did care. Now that you've posted several more times, I am even more sure that you care.

On whether or not I have a problem with this--I was silent because I figured I'd said enough on that particular aspect. I wrote on the other camps thread that the camps were right to shut because just 1 or 2 kids out of a few hundred could infect dozens and lead to a nightmare of a shutdown a couple of weeks in. As a former Scout leader, I would never expose kids in my care to that kind of situation. I think the religious camp leaders are probably nuts to do this, but I really don't have enough info to be sure.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

It's not just here either, the AMC three mile island facility is supposed to be closed yet they continue to operate and just this morning brought a boat load of people over. Just interesting how it's a matter of do what I say not as I do.

Three Mile Island Camp is closed this summer and is not operating. $0 revenue this year. That doesn't mean that there won't be a limited number of people on the island, doing caretaking, security and maintenance tasks while adhering to health and safety protocols.

Ah yes "volunteers doing maintenance". Did you also happen to notice the volume of alcohol that was going over there?

Just sayin....

Sayin' what?