Farm Island decision upheld

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

This is where seth kassels cut a sewage lagoon and sent thousands and thousands of gallons of human waste. To them and then to lake winnepasaukee! We have the photography. This was at the direction of seth kassles

Yet another matter that should not be handled by private parties or lawyers.

If what you claim is true, call in the state and your politicians, and if needed the media.

No one should be expending one penny on private lawyers to deal with this.

Raw sewage in public water would fall under a public safety umbrella, let the responsible parties deal with it and divest yourself from the drama.

You are not making this better by the actions you are communicating here.

If there are legitimate violations these are the governments concerns and responsibility to address.

Not sure what I am missing,,,

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

This is where seth kassels cut a sewage lagoon and sent thousands and thousands of gallons of human waste. To them and then to lake winnepasaukee! We have the photography. This was at the direction of seth kassles

Completely inaccurate. Those septic lagoons did not spew thousand of gallons of waste into the lake. They also were monitored by the state each year. Total BS

[Randy Owen]

sab1

WASTE PHOTOS TO FOLLOW

please share this reporting data you speak of. we have done research and not found it. there is a des file tho with limited information
thank you

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yet another matter that should not be handled by private parties or lawyers.

If what you claim is true, call in the state and your politicians, and if needed the media.

No one should be expending one penny on private lawyers to deal with this.

Raw sewage in public water would fall under a public safety umbrella, let the responsible parties deal with it and divest yourself from the drama.

You are not making this better by the actions you are communicating here.

If there are legitimate violations these are the governments concerns and responsibility to address.

Not sure what I am missing,,,

there is specific official nh action and investigation in process

thank you

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Well I think you have resolved the public matter you placed on the forum, by stating you have chosen option #1.

Not sure there is much more to share or discuss with the members here until something else happens.

That said, if the rifle range is one of the primary concerns, I think its you who should stop and understand what you are saying and doing.

If you bought this property knowing there was a pre-existing usage of a kids camp with a .22 rifle range on this small island, and the camp owners have announced that they will be transiting from the .22 rifles to air rifles but will moving the range to a new location that will be approximately 600 feet from your property, that would seem to me to be a MAJOR plus for you. There is no where on an island that small that the .22's would not make much more noise than the airguns will make at 600 feet from your property. This to your advantage!

You should seriously consider saving "your kids money" and take that huge win and be tremendously thankful they dont just say never mind we will just keep the .22 range where it is and shoot all day all summer.

I would be shocked to find any reasonable person would be bothered by a small air rifle range at a distance of 600 feet. You would have to be wearing bionic hearing aids to have this exceed the background noise of any given Saturday on Winnipesaukee. Remember this is not some isolated environment where you can get away from the sounds of people, boats and human generated noise.

You might want to go and listen to an air rifle at 600 feet in a place that has any normal background noise, and do some soul searching if this is worth all you seem to be putting yourself through and all the money the lawyers are making off you the town and the camp. Seems to me that everyone is losing in this battle based on what you have posted here.

I was recently in a gun shop where one of the sales reps was showing off a full auto CO2 air gun to a customer and he let off a burst of 30 rounds into a commercial air gun trap. I was standing 4 feet from him with my back turned to him and yes I was startled, but only because I didnt expect it. If I was 20 feet from him and outside I doubt I would have even flinched or have taken much noticed. There is no way you could hear a dozen full auto air guns shooting all at the same time if my 3.5 HP push lawn mower were between you and them. Air guns just dont generate that much noise, and certainly nothing even closely comparable to .22 rifles if they are using common high velocity ammo.

Also consider that if you had neighbors move next to you and their lot line put them much closer than 600 feet, and they had half a dozen kids that wanted to shoot air rifles with their friends in the back yard all day all summer, I doubt you could do much about that. In most rural communities usage of air guns is rarely prohibited.

You should really take a breath and be honest and make sure this is why you are concerned about the camp. It just cant possibly be worth all that is going on.

This assumes the bulk of your concerns have been communicated here. Other matters not disclosed may result in a different set of observations,,,

ATB

I believe the rifle range is located on the mainland and not on the island. Having read through the thread it sounds like this is one of those situations where reason and dialogue will never prevail, and instead animosity and ill-will will emerge victorious.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

there is specific official nh action and investigation in process

thank you

the photo with black pipes is where they would just drain the lagoon whenever it filled up. (the winnie shores letter addresses this well) the photos with the white pipes and precast chamber shows the area where under the direction of seth kassels the excavator operator just breached the lagoon. the photo with the ice show the abrupt level change where the sewage levels were at the day before. these pond are quite large. these was THOUSANDS OF GALLONS as the drop was several feet and a horrific dump into the lake. this is the season with specific correlation to kids or camper illness and seth's wife refuses to answer questions about and offer records of proof otherwise

now i know some are frustrated with my passion and this lengthy thread. but apart and aside the reader needs to know. we swim here. hell the parents need to know. if ever he would to deny this as intentional and lie once again and call it a mistake (which it wasn't) seth kassels marched those kids right into that water. these effluents last of years not weeks. this is shameful of him. those poor innocent kids!!!! now his wife refuses medical records or perhaps seth won't let her

thank you all for your concern and attention

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I believe the rifle range is located on the mainland and not on the island. Having read through the thread it sounds like this is one of those situations where reason and dialogue will never prevail, and instead animosity and ill-will will emerge victorious.

you're are correct. this is on the mainland. my greater quest is because of the excessive harm seth kassels cause my family and my alliance and concern for my good friend don. however, i and the entire bay will absolutely hear this. the pollution done by camp belknap too remains paramount.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

the photo with black pipes is where they would just drain the lagoon whenever it filled up. (the winnie shores letter addresses this well) the photos with the white pipes and precast chamber shows the area where under the direction of seth kassels the excavator operator just breached the lagoon. the photo with the ice show the abrupt level change where the sewage levels were at the day before. these pond are quite large. these was THOUSANDS OF GALLONS as the drop was several feet and a horrific dump into the lake. this is the season with specific correlation to kids or camper illness and seth's wife refuses to answer questions about and offer records of proof otherwise

now i know some are frustrated with my passion and this lengthy thread. but apart and aside the reader needs to know. we swim here. hell the parents need to know. if ever he would to deny this as intentional and lie once again and call it a mistake (which it wasn't) seth kassels marched those kids right into that water. these effluents last of years not weeks. this is shameful of him. those poor innocent kids!!!! now his wife refuses medical records or perhaps seth won't let her

thank you all for your concern and attention

If this is truly the case why didn't DES handle this? They don't take these kind of matters lightly. A simple complaint filed with DES should have brought the world down on them.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

If this is truly the case why didn't DES handle this? They don't take these kind of matters lightly. A simple complaint filed with DES should have brought the world down on them.

the des is aware. surprising the des recorded the event and did little. we are going to ask for these records.

conjunctivitis and stomach viruses were rampant. the medical records are held at the camp. former campers know all about it. ask them! the camp refuses to address this and the order of pot we frequently smell

[Sue Doe-Nym]

That is shocking, if true, that the DES has been made aware of lake pollution by the camp, and has done nothing....in fact, it’s almost unbelievable!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I believe the rifle range is located on the mainland and not on the island. Having read through the thread it sounds like this is one of those situations where reason and dialogue will never prevail, and instead animosity and ill-will will emerge victorious.

Seriously,,,

Now I'm totally confused,,,

This gets more confusing by the post.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

If this is truly the case why didn't DES handle this? They don't take these kind of matters lightly. A simple complaint filed with DES should have brought the world down on them.

i am equally surprised and disappointed with the des

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

sab1

WASTE PHOTOS TO FOLLOW

please share this reporting data you speak of. we have done research and not found it. there is a des file tho with limited information
thank you

I see absolutely nothing in that letter that mentions a spill of sewage into the lake. Nothing. The author speaks of a horrendous smell for the past 55 years and that it has been abated. No spill is mentioned.

More to the point - what in the world does this have to do with Farm Island? What in the world does the relocation of the air rifle range have to do with Farm Island? This thread is akin to nailing jello to a tree or herding cats - it's all over the place and oozing around any point or counterpoint being made.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

you're are correct. this is on the mainland. my greater quest is because of the excessive harm seth kassels cause my family and my alliance and concern for my good friend don. however, i and the entire bay will absolutely hear this. the pollution done by camp belknap too remains paramount.

Ok, now I am done, this is just way too misleading and convoluted.

Through countless posts we have been told about the impact of one property on an island by neighbors also on the island, but now it turns out that some of the concerns have nothing to do with the property on the island at all.

This is way to crazy dysfunctional for me.

God help me for ever thinking I might want to retire to NH, if this is any example of what I would encounter you couldnt give me waterfront property if I had to deal with all this.

I think Winnipesaukee is becoming a Florida trailer park. This all reads like a bad TV episode,,,

No more reading of this thread for me, you can call me thin-skinned but I see enough drama at the deli counter to suit my needs.

ATB to all parties and anyone who has the stamina to keep reading through this mess.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

I see absolutely nothing in that letter that mentions a spill of sewage into the lake. Nothing. The author speaks of a horrendous smell for the past 55 years and that it has been abated. No spill is mentioned.

More to the point - what in the world does this have to do with Farm Island? What in the world does the relocation of the air rifle range have to do with Farm Island? This thread is akin to nailing jello to a tree or herding cats - it's all over the place and oozing around any point or counterpoint being made.

the smell is the continued release as needed. this went on for years. the "spill" was a one time event that happed in the winter.

but, "More to the point". selfishly i swim in that water and so do my kids. that firing range is very close to the water and noise travels over water. unselfishly i support my good friend don mcwhirter. he's really screwed as are others in his area. unselfishly i support you if you swim in and enjoy the lake. unselfishly i support every taxpayer in tuftonboro so they know how much tax payer money is spent on this camp selfish needs. the pay nothing and consume tons of town benefits. they have hundreds of acres of land and thousands of feet of frontage. they are for profit and have millions in revenues and donations. so i ask you to consider your own tax bill and where your money is going

and at the risk of being redundant please remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another's selfish quest? or as we call it a sethfish quest

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Ok, now I am done, this is just way too misleading and convoluted.

Through countless posts we have been told about the impact of one property on an island by neighbors also on the island, but now it turns out that some of the concerns have nothing to do with the property on the island at all.

This is way to crazy dysfunctional for me.

God help me for ever thinking I might want to retire to NH, if this is any example of what I would encounter you couldnt give me waterfront property if I had to deal with all this.

I think Winnipesaukee is becoming a Florida trailer park. This all reads like a bad TV episode,,,

No more reading of this thread for me, you can call me thin-skinned but I see enough drama at the deli counter to suit my needs.

ATB to all parties and anyone who has the stamina to keep reading through this mess.

thank you for your input and insight. frankly it has been very helpful. i put a deposit on farm island and two and one half years later i finally closed. all held up with these type of shenanigans. there is no fabrication only truths and of course my passion. i too am moving up to tuftonboro to retire and this was my welcome

[Pricestavern]

As I said, Jell-O.

I'm out. Randy I hope you find some inner peace. Good luck to all involved. I wish you all the best, but I'm done with this thread.

More importantly - when is Ice Out?

[jogator1]

I agree that this thread has become convoluted and misleading. As I have read through all this information I keep questioning why Mr. Owens didn't do his due diligence before purchasing this land. It is pretty obvious Camp Belknap has been located and firmly established on Farm Island for many years prior to Mr. Owens purchasing his property and initiating his legal pursuits. As you use your resources probing for "opportunities" to benefit your cause, you must realize the Lakes Region is governed pretty tightly by state and local agencies. Why put yourself through all of this stress decreasing your health and well-being? Can't you find a way to enjoy the beauty and serenity of the lake coexisting with your camp neighbor?

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by jogator1

I agree that this thread has become convoluted and misleading. As I have read through all this information I keep questioning why Mr. Owens didn't do his due diligence before purchasing this land. It is pretty obvious Camp Belknap has been located and firmly established on Farm Island for many years prior to Mr. Owens purchasing his property and initiating his legal pursuits. As you use your resources probing for "opportunities" to benefit your cause, you must realize the Lakes Region is governed pretty tightly by state and local agencies. Why put yourself through all of this stress decreasing your health and well-being? Can't you find a way to enjoy the beauty and serenity of the lake coexisting with your camp neighbor?

i had no idea i was up for this fight. but i had spent 50k on the project and couldn't turn back. i was however warned by the winchester's. they fought this camp for years. i frankly was mislead with the Christian affiliation. frankly though i won my battle. my mission now is only to help my neighbors and protect the lake. i demand only that camp belknap be accountable to the des and follow local and town laws.
sorry for the confusion but the issue is far reaching. remember this good things don't come easy. i am working for a good thing and for you as well. please help me protect the lake.

[SAB1]

There was no spillage into the lake. Those black pipes are less than 100yds from my property. No pumping of affluent out of the lagoons onto the land or lake. At the time those chambers were put in the State was involved as the system was failing. There was a two year ongoing project to completely redo that septic system . And just to be clear, those to lagoons or ponds contained 100% grey water no solids.

I have no affiliation with the Camp or Farm Island or axe to grind. Just hate seeing misconstrued facts all over this thread.

[Don McWhirter]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

That is shocking, if true, that the DES has been made aware of lake pollution by the camp, and has done nothing....in fact, it’s almost unbelievable!

This will be short but sweet and it has a happy ending. In the Spring of 2017 I was tipped off by a staff member at Camp Belknap . I was told the director of the camp had the sewage lagoon emptied into the surrounding land. I found this to be true and called the Sub Surface Division of the DES. They were to send an inspector out. When I didn’t hear from them I called again. I was informed they called the camp and were told there was maintenance being done on the pipes. Months later I reported the incident to the Lake Winnipesaukee Association. They put the lagoons on a watch list. As I said happy ending, the camp installed two new septic systems thanks to the Lake Winni Assoc. As for the stomach viruses and conjunctivitis outbreak, they were all reported to me and others by camp employees. It really is about the money not the kids at Belknap.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Don McWhirter

This will be short but sweet and it has a happy ending. In the Spring of 2017 I was tipped off by a staff member at Camp Belknap . I was told the director of the camp had the sewage lagoon emptied into the surrounding land. I found this to be true and called the Sub Surface Division of the DES. They were to send an inspector out. When I didn’t hear from them I called again. I was informed they called the camp and were told there was maintenance being done on the pipes. Months later I reported the incident to the Lake Winnipesaukee Association. They put the lagoons on a watch list. As I said happy ending, the camp installed two new septic systems thanks to the Lake Winni Assoc. As for the stomach viruses and conjunctivitis outbreak, they were all reported to me and others by camp employees. It really is about the money not the kids at Belknap.

Hmm.... so first of all what would entice a "staff member" to casually drop this information on you? This makes zero sense, or were you just fishing for dirt on the camp? Now this allegedly occurred in the spring time as per your own admission, the camp states they were doing maintenance. Stands to reason this was being done well before any kids arrived and how do you know for certain that what was drained out of those pipes was even the grey water that the pools actually contain? BTW grey water is NOT raw sewage. Do you think that MAYBE it is possible and more or less likely that the pipes indeed did need maintenance or just a check prior to operation? Moreover what was allegedly drained out of them was not grey water but rather regular potable water which was put into them to say I don't know pressure test them? Since you didn't see first hand what happened your observation and conclusion is likely incorrect thus the reason why there was no action by DES who far as everyone else on the planet knows takes this stuff very seriously. IF an investigation was warranted I'm sure they would have conducted one and shut that place down if there was indeed a problem. Outrage due to ignorance does not, on your part or Mr. Owen's, construe illegal activity by the camp, town, DES or state.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by SAB1

There was no spillage into the lake. Those black pipes are less than 100yds from my property. No pumping of affluent out of the lagoons onto the land or lake. At the time those chambers were put in the State was involved as the system was failing. There was a two year ongoing project to completely redo that septic system . And just to be clear, those to lagoons or ponds contained 100% grey water no solids.

I have no affiliation with the Camp or Farm Island or axe to grind. Just hate seeing misconstrued facts all over this thread.

i welcome corrective information but this is inconsistent. what supports the spillage incident is clearly this ice line. please explain your thoughts here. i see no way any natural soil absorption would show a ice line feet above where the sewage level was only hours before. similar to a lake level change no marks like this occur without a breach. again i welcome information of support of any substance. thank you

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Hmm.... so first of all what would entice a "staff member" to casually drop this information on you? This makes zero sense, or were you just fishing for dirt on the camp? Now this allegedly occurred in the spring time as per your own admission, the camp states they were doing maintenance. Stands to reason this was being done well before any kids arrived and how do you know for certain that what was drained out of those pipes was even the grey water that the pools actually contain? BTW grey water is NOT raw sewage. Do you think that MAYBE it is possible and more or less likely that the pipes indeed did need maintenance or just a check prior to operation? Moreover what was allegedly drained out of them was not grey water but rather regular potable water which was put into them to say I don't know pressure test them? Since you didn't see first hand what happened your observation and conclusion is likely incorrect thus the reason why there was no action by DES who far as everyone else on the planet knows takes this stuff very seriously. IF an investigation was warranted I'm sure they would have conducted one and shut that place down if there was indeed a problem. Outrage due to ignorance does not, on your part or Mr. Owen's, construe illegal activity by the camp, town, DES or state.

at a time camp belknap actions and policies were well respected. i think the des just accepted their verbal report. at a time staff and former staff at camp belknaqp were pretty happy. this is no longer true.

the forensics though are pretty telling. the ice line is in feet. i welcome supporting argument that might mitigate this disaster but i just don't see it. please explain how you think this happened. perhaps if the camp can provide manifests of thousands of gallons being pumped and transported i'll buy it, but for now i'm going with gravity and to it's lowest point lake winnipesaukee.

the former kids all will tell you about the pink eye and stomach viruses resulting. truth is they are pushing the kids to as they call it "west camp" because they polluted east camp.

while the spill itself is catastrophic this also begs the question why seth kassels did not report it and further why did he march the kids into that water just a few weeks later or YOU for that matter. i assume you are a neighbor

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

at a time camp belknap actions and policies were well respected. i think the des just accepted their verbal report. at a time staff and former staff at camp belknaqp were pretty happy. this is no longer true.

the forensics though are pretty telling. the ice line is in feet. i welcome supporting argument that might mitigate this disaster but i just don't see it. please explain how you think this happened. perhaps if the camp can provide manifests of thousands of gallons being pumped and transported i'll buy it, but for now i'm going with gravity and to it's lowest point lake winnipesaukee.

the former kids all will tell you about the pink eye and stomach viruses resulting. truth is they are pushing the kids to as they call it "west camp" because they polluted east camp.

while the spill itself is catastrophic this also begs the question why seth kassels did not report it and further why did he march the kids into that water just a few weeks later or YOU for that matter. i assume you are a neighbor

please also explain this

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by SAB1

There was no spillage into the lake. Those black pipes are less than 100yds from my property. No pumping of affluent out of the lagoons onto the land or lake. At the time those chambers were put in the State was involved as the system was failing. There was a two year ongoing project to completely redo that septic system . And just to be clear, those to lagoons or ponds contained 100% grey water no solids.

I have no affiliation with the Camp or Farm Island or axe to grind. Just hate seeing misconstrued facts all over this thread.

Thank you. I was confident there was more to this story. The only thing spewing is Randy....

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

at a time camp belknap actions and policies were well respected. i think the des just accepted their verbal report. at a time staff and former staff at camp belknaqp were pretty happy. this is no longer true.

the forensics though are pretty telling. the ice line is in feet. i welcome supporting argument that might mitigate this disaster but i just don't see it. please explain how you think this happened. perhaps if the camp can provide manifests of thousands of gallons being pumped and transported i'll buy it, but for now i'm going with gravity and to it's lowest point lake winnipesaukee.

the former kids all will tell you about the pink eye and stomach viruses resulting. truth is they are pushing the kids to as they call it "west camp" because they polluted east camp.

while the spill itself is catastrophic this also begs the question why seth kassels did not report it and further why did he march the kids into that water just a few weeks later or YOU for that matter. i assume you are a neighbor

You've lost all credibility with me Mr. Owens.

I sincerely hope the camp continues to operate and annoys the heck out of you for many years to come.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Thank you. I was confident there was more to this story. The only thing spewing is Randy....

i ask you then to explain these two things. why did mr. nelson write this letter and where did all this waist water or grey water go? if you are content then swim where you will. if you care then learn the truth

[granitebox]

Did the camp operate during the summer of 2020?

[Descant]

I think the two prime posters are just making stuff up (Randy Owen and XCR-700.) Randy wants to live on Farm Island in the summer. Not even close to the existing or proposed rifle range. He's worried about noise from 300 campers who will not be on Farm Island in any large numbers. They won't be
.c.c.playing ball or other large noisy group games etc.
XCR-700 is speculating about where things are or what might be OK or not OK,
with no apparent knowledge of what is already going on
Randy started a second thread to discuss the mainland squabbles, but also , posted the same opening remarks on the Farm Island thread, totally unrelated,

tGive it a rest, guys, or go to PM's or phones where you can figure ou
what/where you are

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by granitebox

Did the camp operate during the summer of 2020?

this happened several years ago. there should be a des report that we are trying to access

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Descant

I think the two prime posters are just making stuff up (Randy Owen and XCR-700.) Randy wants to live on Farm Island in the summer. Not even close to the existing or proposed rifle range. He's worried about noise from 300 campers who will not be on Farm Island in any large numbers. They won't be
.c.c.playing ball or other large noisy group games etc.
XCR-700 is speculating about where things are or what might be OK or not OK,
with no apparent knowledge of what is already going on
Randy started a second thread to discuss the mainland squabbles, but also , posted the same opening remarks on the Farm Island thread, totally unrelated,

tGive it a rest, guys, or go to PM's or phones where you can figure ou
what/where you are

the original mission was to try get camp belknap just to follow local and state law. we have certainly strayed far away. though i do believe my mission through social media is to let people understand. in so doing the merits now seem to be of paramount interest

so for the record this is about camp belknap breaking the law. this is about camp belknap ignoring a superior court judge.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

I think the two prime posters are just making stuff up (Randy Owen and XCR-700.) Randy wants to live on Farm Island in the summer. Not even close to the existing or proposed rifle range. He's worried about noise from 300 campers who will not be on Farm Island in any large numbers. They won't be
.c.c.playing ball or other large noisy group games etc.
XCR-700 is speculating about where things are or what might be OK or not OK,
with no apparent knowledge of what is already going on
Randy started a second thread to discuss the mainland squabbles, but also , posted the same opening remarks on the Farm Island thread, totally unrelated,

tGive it a rest, guys, or go to PM's or phones where you can figure ou
what/where you are

Hummm,,, Not sure I am "speculating" I was trying to make any sense of what was posted here and finally determined that its not possible.

Information is being dribbled out and is being mixed up in the most convoluted way possible.

This thread is a nightmare.

It is clear there are all kinds of personal agendas here and very little coherent and factual information.

I wish I had never read anything in this thread or posted a single response.

If anyone thinks it will help to untangle the matter, I would be more than happy to delete everything I posted as there is no way it was of any value in any way to any one.

Again, I truly wish I had never seen this thread and my apologies to all for adding to this nightmare of confusion.

If I had a good mallet handy I would wack myself in the head hoping it would erase my memory of this mess,,,

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

i ask you then to explain these two things. why did mr. nelson write this letter and where did all this waist water or grey water go? if you are content then swim where you will. if you care then learn the truth

You obviously have an axe to grind with them, and that's fine. My point above is that SAB1 states that they live 100 yards from the site, and as a witness not involved in your mess he states that your claims are untrue/unfounded. I have no idea who Mr. Nelson is, but feel that I should be on a first name basis with him by now based on the number of times you have posted his same letter on this thread!

Taken from the post in question:

"There was no spillage into the lake. Those black pipes are less than 100yds from my property. No pumping of affluent out of the lagoons onto the land or lake. At the time those chambers were put in the State was involved as the system was failing. There was a two year ongoing project to completely redo that septic system . And just to be clear, those to lagoons or ponds contained 100% grey water no solids.

I have no affiliation with the Camp or Farm Island or axe to grind. Just hate seeing misconstrued facts all over this thread."

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

You obviously have an axe to grind with them, and that's fine. My point above is that SAB1 states that they live 100 yards from the site, and as a witness not involved in your mess he states that your claims are untrue/unfounded. I have no idea who Mr. Nelson is, but feel that I should be on a first name basis with him by now based on the number of times you have posted his same letter on this thread!

Taken from the post in question:

"There was no spillage into the lake. Those black pipes are less than 100yds from my property. No pumping of affluent out of the lagoons onto the land or lake. At the time those chambers were put in the State was involved as the system was failing. There was a two year ongoing project to completely redo that septic system . And just to be clear, those to lagoons or ponds contained 100% grey water no solids.

I have no affiliation with the Camp or Farm Island or axe to grind. Just hate seeing misconstrued facts all over this thread."

excellent deductions! and i am happy to answer and yes there is way more to the story

as sab1 states he is within 100 yards of this sewage pond. he is actually also really close to the nuisance as the camp itself details in its overview. both the camp and sab1 want to rid themselves of the nuisance. the camps letter is attached to support this. in this letter the range/nuisance is move from their programing and sleeping area. this too is to sab1 and actually mr. nelsons advantage.

mr. nelsons actually provides two letter. also provided here is the second letter to support and demonstrate the ultimate of hypocrisy. in his first letter he does identify all he hates about the camp exploiting the neighborhood, the land and wild life. at this time he has no idea what the camp is proposing as his first letter details. in the second letter he has learned that he is loosing the nuisance and actually comes back and complements the camp. clearly his posture has zero regard for don mcwhirter the west camp abutters. to be clear mr. nelson and sab1 are loosing the nuisance and don and the people on farm and chase island are gaining the nuisance.

we were extremely disappointed with mr. nelson and others in that neighborhood. they simple abandoned don and their grudge with the camp as the nuisance was shall we say "good riddance" and put the burden on other neighbors. matter of fact is that sab1 concern is if don's legal actions prevail sab1 and mr. nelson keep the nuisance.

for the record i made dozens of phone calls, emails and text to the people in winnie shores. i begged them to align and ask camp belknap not to continue to screw the winnie shores neighbors and not to start to screwing the west camp area with the damn nuisance.

the camp has hundred of acres of land. there is tons of open land to locate this firing range that wouldn't SCREW ANYONE! a win for winnie shores, a win for west camp neighbors, a win for farm island and a win for chase island. the crying shame of it all is that now that don's appeal is likely to prevail winnie shore keeps the damn firing range nuisance.

you've found my passion i again ask you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another's selfish quest?

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by randy owen

excellent deductions! And i am happy to answer and yes there is way more to the story

as sab1 states he is within 100 yards of this sewage pond. He is actually also really close to the nuisance as the camp itself details in its overview. Both the camp and sab1 want to rid themselves of the nuisance. The camps letter is attached to support this. In this letter the range/nuisance is move from their programing and sleeping area. This too is to sab1 and actually mr. Nelsons advantage.

Mr. Nelsons actually provides two letter. Also provided here is the second letter to support and demonstrate the ultimate of hypocrisy. In his first letter he does identify all he hates about the camp exploiting the neighborhood, the land and wild life. At this time he has no idea what the camp is proposing as his first letter details. In the second letter he has learned that he is loosing the nuisance and actually comes back and complements the camp. Clearly his posture has zero regard for don mcwhirter the west camp abutters. To be clear mr. Nelson and sab1 are loosing the nuisance and don and the people on farm and chase island are gaining the nuisance.

We were extremely disappointed with mr. Nelson and others in that neighborhood. They simple abandoned don and their grudge with the camp as the nuisance was shall we say "good riddance" and put the burden on other neighbors. Matter of fact is that sab1 concern is if don's legal actions prevail sab1 and mr. Nelson keep the nuisance.

For the record i made dozens of phone calls, emails and text to the people in winnie shores. I begged them to align and ask camp belknap not to continue to screw the winnie shores neighbors and not to start to screwing the west camp area with the damn nuisance.

The camp has hundred of acres of land. There is tons of open land to locate this firing range that wouldn't screw anyone! A win for winnie shores, a win for west camp neighbors, a win for farm island and a win for chase island. The crying shame of it all is that now that don's appeal is likely to prevail winnie shore keeps the damn firing range nuisance.

you've found my passion i again ask you to understand my less then perfect domainer. While doing so please ask yourself the following: When was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another's selfish quest?

i forgot the overveiw drafted by no other than camp belknap

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Thank you. I was confident there was more to this story. The only thing spewing is Randy....

if the state was involved there would a state construction approval number. what is it?

[granitebox]

This thread has devolved into nonsense with statements lacking facts being thrown about. The same letters/allegations have been made 10x over and that doesn't make them credible. There is far more to story than we are being told but I'm going to leave this to the proper authorities to sort out (if even necessary) - I'm done, out

[mhtranger]

All this post is about is how Randy likes to hear his own voice. This thread has become ridiculous. Get over yourself Randy.

[nhd]

These might clarify some, without examining all the permits issued it appears DES is involved and a septic treatment system is approved. DES one stop activity log shows correspondence starting 2001 until 2020

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

excellent deductions! and i am happy to answer and yes there is way more to the story

as sab1 states he is within 100 yards of this sewage pond. he is actually also really close to the nuisance as the camp itself details in its overview. both the camp and sab1 want to rid themselves of the nuisance. the camps letter is attached to support this. in this letter the range/nuisance is move from their programing and sleeping area. this too is to sab1 and actually mr. nelsons advantage.

mr. nelsons actually provides two letter. also provided here is the second letter to support and demonstrate the ultimate of hypocrisy. in his first letter he does identify all he hates about the camp exploiting the neighborhood, the land and wild life. at this time he has no idea what the camp is proposing as his first letter details. in the second letter he has learned that he is loosing the nuisance and actually comes back and complements the camp. clearly his posture has zero regard for don mcwhirter the west camp abutters. to be clear mr. nelson and sab1 are loosing the nuisance and don and the people on farm and chase island are gaining the nuisance.

we were extremely disappointed with mr. nelson and others in that neighborhood. they simple abandoned don and their grudge with the camp as the nuisance was shall we say "good riddance" and put the burden on other neighbors. matter of fact is that sab1 concern is if don's legal actions prevail sab1 and mr. nelson keep the nuisance.

for the record i made dozens of phone calls, emails and text to the people in winnie shores. i begged them to align and ask camp belknap not to continue to screw the winnie shores neighbors and not to start to screwing the west camp area with the damn nuisance.

the camp has hundred of acres of land. there is tons of open land to locate this firing range that wouldn't SCREW ANYONE! a win for winnie shores, a win for west camp neighbors, a win for farm island and a win for chase island. the crying shame of it all is that now that don's appeal is likely to prevail winnie shore keeps the damn firing range nuisance.

you've found my passion i again ask you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another's selfish quest?

My input is not within any letter. Please do not reference me with any nuisance letter. My name is not on it or in it. If I have an issue with the camp I direct it directly with Seth. My only issue has been the loud “gangster rap” music on the basket ball pavilion at times. Aside from that I bought my place 20 years ago and directly abutt the camp. Not really going to make waves because I made the choice when I bought. As long as what they do is legal I’m fine. I look at it like I said previously. Great to see the kids outside, swimming, sailing, canoeing, sports etc rather than sitting on their butts in front of a tv playing video games all day or hanging around the town park smokin dope then breaking into homes stealing TVs to sell to buy more dope.

The grey water system has been fixed. That’s all good there. That system was decades old and predated current management. It operated up until its replacement the same way it did for it years. The odor was not really a common problem. It surfaced on long very dry, hot humid weather end of July into August when water levels in the lagoon receded. The land that was exposed by the receded water had marine growth exposed to the air and combined with stagnant water stunk much like a marsh at low tide did. The primary source of the grey water was the laundry mat on 109 and shower facilities at camp.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by nhd

These might clarify some, without examining all the permits issued it appears DES is involved and a septic treatment system is approved. DES one stop activity log shows correspondence starting 2001 until 2020

THANK YOU!!!!

official documentation is a appreciated. this is however way after the breach and after 52 years of as the nelson letter details of discharge. camp belknap was on a watch list. for the record the system has been improved but still under investigation of compliance.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by nhd

These might clarify some, without examining all the permits issued it appears DES is involved and a septic treatment system is approved. DES one stop activity log shows correspondence starting 2001 until 2020

Yes THANK YOU!!! Clearly shows nothing to see here, DES has permitted what is in operation at Camp Belknap and is fully compliant.

Checkmate Randy. Move along now.

[Kingfisher]

Can anyone enlighten those of us with severe third grade reading comprehension with the shorthand version of this story of woe?
Is Mr Owen a big rich landowner or wannabe starting a chicken farm?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Kingfisher

Can anyone enlighten those of us with severe third grade reading comprehension with the shorthand version of this story of woe?
Is Mr Owen a big rich landowner or wannabe starting a chicken farm?

I would be happy to provide the abridged version: Owens vs. Camp Belknap. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum and regurgitated, and most forum members are just plain worn out, and want to give it a rest. JMO.

[JEEPONLY]

I must say, I have read much of this, and still don't get it- hence my thanks to the two previous posts.

That which may seem confusing are my experiences with two of the players:
Pardon me- Gene Clark did marvelous work at the camp, but was a bit of a kook-
Don McWhirter is an arrogant ass-

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

I would be happy to provide the abridged version: Owens vs. Camp Belknap. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum and regurgitated, and most forum members are just plain worn out, and want to give it a rest. JMO.

the shortest way i can capture what the reinvigoration of this post was about is simply stating camp belknap does not follow the law. the saddest part is that there are already laws in place at the local level and both don mcwhirter and i are not able to get local law enforced and respected.

camp belkknap wrote a petition that i would be breaking a long lists of laws. this triggered studies. the studies only proved that camp beknap had broken all of the laws and others. at the town level i proved them wrong. they then elevated this to the superior court and i again won and proved them all wrong. the facts are on all counts are i followed the law 100 percent while the camp had dozens of violations and broken laws. the facts and the law support that my family is on farm and we are enjoying it with a residential use as it should be.

recently camp belknap has again tried to break the law. don mcwhirter has tried to simply get them to follow local law again. he too has brought this to the superior court level. the utmost merit of this post is that now we can’t even get camp belknap to follow the superior court. camp belknap filed a ridiculous motion of clarification of the simplest of stay orders. a superior court judge reaffirms her position and the camp still tries to break the law and ignores a superior court once again. the legal costs born by don, myself and most of all the town of tuftonboro are staggering.

NOW IF YOU LIVE IN TUFTONBORO..... DO KNOW THIS! ALL LEGAL COSTS ARE PAID BY YOU AND YOUR TAX DOLLAR!!!! AND CAMP BELKNAP CONTRIBUTES NOTHING IN PROPERTY TAX!

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

I must say, I have read much of this, and still don't get it- hence my thanks to the two previous posts.

That which may seem confusing are my experiences with two of the players:
Pardon me- Gene Clark did marvelous work at the camp, but was a bit of a kook-
Don McWhirter is an arrogant ass-

i sold camp belknap a boat 30 years ago. gene was a perfect gentleman and followed our agreement with perfection. i see nothing of a "kook"

i have had business dealings with don too and these were flawless. recently i have had a better opportunity to learn more about don. he supported me in the one of the most corrupt and difficult of battles of my lifetime. i consider myself lucky to call him my friend

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

i sold camp belknap a boat 30 years ago. gene was a perfect gentleman and followed our agreement with perfection. i see nothing of a "kook"

i have had business dealings with don too and these were flawless. recently i have had a better opportunity to learn more about don. he supported me in the one of the most corrupt and difficult of battles of my lifetime. i consider myself lucky to call him my friend

I maintain my respect for all that Gene did, over many, many years, to develop, administer and deliver the "camp experience".
Unfortunately, later in his tenure, he took on peculiar habits- like ill-applied Man-tan and hair coloring. Think small-town N.H.
My point- in this time, were incorrect (unlawful) decisions made concerning the physical/financial existence of the property?
As mentioned earlier, I don't really get all that is going on. Just saying.

I never said Don was stupid- just that he is arrogant. When someone like this gets in stride I always suspect an over-stepping of the bounds to occur.
Again- not knowing what this is really all about, could this be part of the local resistance to information and intent?

I don't know. Just 2c.

[fatlazyless]

Thursday, May 19, 2022: http://www.sports.yahoo.com/ymca-cam...040100952.html ..... law suit pending

http://www.nhlakesproperty.com/listi...boro-nh-03816/ .... for sale; 13.3 acres and ye olde 1906 island cottage on Farm Island, price-$1,495,000

Well, well, well, well, well, well , and well, well, well, well ...... you know this well is getting repetitious ..... cannot think of an intelligent comment here, but I figured these two links were relevant for posting to this old thread, here ...... and well, well, well, well, well? ....

[owenoutdoors]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Thursday, May 19, 2022: http://www.sports.yahoo.com/ymca-cam...040100952.html ..... law suit pending

http://www.nhlakesproperty.com/listi...boro-nh-03816/ .... for sale; 13.3 acres and ye olde 1906 island cottage on Farm Island, price-$1,495,000

Well, well, well, well, well, well , and well, well, well, well ...... you know this well is getting repetitious ..... cannot think of an intelligent comment here, but I figured these two links were relevant for posting to this old thread, here ...... and well, well, well, well, well? ....

you found an old link from the original listing. The property is not for sale

[fatlazyless]

..... ok, I actually think I thought of something quasi-intelligent to say!

From a 1914 famous poem by poet Robert Frost who wrote that;

......... good fences make for good neighbors, (or something similar)

Chances are, you put up a good attractive fence to divide the 12-acres and the 9-acres on Farm Island, and suddenly both abutting parties would start to have improved relationship. ........ ye olde NH proverb so sayeth ......

Is probably better in long run, and less expensive in short run to pay for fence, than to pay for lawyers, plus you get a fence. With lawyers, you probably get a lot of nothing. .....

[XCR-700]

Nice profit there, hope it was all worth it.

Life is too short for such madness. There are way too many other options.

Good luck to all parties going forward, and may they never meet each other again.

[pondguy]

Maybe Randy could just donate his property to Camp Belknap it would be great for the kids.

[owenoutdoors]

Hey everyone bit of misinformation in the post that revived this thread. The link that was found is extremely old and was from the original listing. Maxfield real estate was the listing company and you can go to their site and see it is not there. For whatever reason sites like these pick up on the MLS and make a listing show on their site. It was just leftover from the original owners. It is not for sale.