pandemic

[MotorHead]

Last Saturday, we did a takeout from one of the local Italian restaurants. Food was good, as usual. The place was packed, no one was wearing a mask, tables were next to each other.

I guess pandemic is over, that is good to know.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Last Saturday, we did a takeout from one of the local Italian restaurants. Food was good, as usual. The place was packed, no one was wearing a mask, tables were next to each other.

I guess pandemic is over, that is good to know.

In my opinion if you're going to call out a restaurant you should name it.

We’re there dividers between tables? We’re servers busers ect masked? You do not need a mask at your table

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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by joey2665

In my opinion if you're going to call out a restaurant you should name it.

We’re there dividers between tables? We’re servers busers ect masked? You do not need a mask at your table

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Karen, I disagree. If you don’t like what you see when you arrive, just walk back out. As one that visits local restaurants twice a week I must say there are a few we won’t visit due to them stretching the rules. No need to name them if others are happy eating there

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Last Saturday, we did a takeout from one of the local Italian restaurants. Food was good, as usual. The place was packed, no one was wearing a mask, tables were next to each other.

I guess pandemic is over, that is good to know.

No need for you to worry if you did take out.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Karen, I disagree. If you don’t like what you see when you arrive, just walk back out. As one that visits local restaurants twice a week I must say there are a few we won’t visit due to them stretching the rules. No need to name them if others are happy eating there

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It’s all obviously you don’t know me very well I am certainly am not a Karen. This is supposed to be informative forum. If you gonna call somebody out the least you should do is have the balls to say the name it. I think it would benefit people like you don’t want to go places that don’t mask. Me. I could care less I go anywhere masks are not. I’ll make my precautions you do as you see fit.

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[8gv]

I wonder what it's like for people named Karen these days.

[MotorHead]

My goal was not to knock the restaurant down, I am sure they were operating within their legal limits. I was surprised to see how many people just do not care.

Even though we did a take takeout, I still care. I am sure I will bump into one of those people in Shaws or Hannaford. Drink the Kool Aid.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Karen, I disagree. If you don’t like what you see when you arrive, just walk back out. As one that visits local restaurants twice a week I must say there are a few we won’t visit due to them stretching the rules. No need to name them if others are happy eating there

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You've got to back up from the specifics/politics, and think about the general. The OP could have remarked that the steak was great, but fish only so-so, or the crowd was fun but kind of loud, or the prices were high, but servings were huge....In all these cases, we need to know the name or the post is kind of useless.

Also, in all of the above cases and wrt covid enforcement in particular--some folks would be encouraged to visit and some would be encouraged to stay away.

[SAMIAM]

From what I've seen, younger people are less concerned than older folks who are more likely to have complications.
But I'm curious as to why, if restaurants are so high risk, no one on our staff has contacted covid after serving customers without masks and handling money for the last year. Not saying people shouldn't be cautious....just thinking that restaurants might have been unfairly targeted.

[trashman]

My two cents: I disagree with naming the restaurant. You feel they deserve it, but will it change how the restaurant behaves? Maybe, but it may also be just as effective to talk to them directly rather than trying to hurt them.

Negative online bashing can really hurt businesses, and I'd feel horrible taking customers away from small businesses with a few keystrokes from my desk. If you feel a business is doing wrong in some way, have the guts to approach them directly. I think when you walk into a restaurant and don't feel comfortable, then just leave!! Maybe scope them out first if you are expecting every rule to be followed???

[joey2665]

Just my opinion if you’re not gonna see the name of the restaurant and give people a heads up about a certain place and then subsequently say they may still be following CDC guidelines then I’d like to ask what was the purpose of the post to begin with

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[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Just my opinion if you’re not gonna see the name of the restaurant and give people a heads up about a certain place and then subsequently say they may still be following CDC guidelines then I’d like to ask what was the purpose of the post to begin with

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Too many idiots do not care. Too many idiots still drinking the Kool Aid.
Do not want to get political.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Too many idiots do not care. Too many idiots still drinking the Kool Aid.
Do not want to get political.

Understood but if they are following the state and CDC guidelines not much you can do about it anyway

[baygo]

380 days since we had the privilege of serving the public in our home. We’ve managed to keep the bills paid by maintaining operations of our outside bar. My respect for my Louisiana born wife went to a new level the -4° morning that she cheerfully prepared a breakfast sandwich for the hungry loyalist.

I’ve talked with and listened to 1,000s over the past 380 days. My take on things; The so-called experts are the most wishy-washy and inconsistent with their message, and the politicians continue their strategy of divide to conquer.

I find it frustrating that on January 21st the World Health Organization posted in their website that there is no asymmetric condition. Therefore indicating that we have been fed information containing about 90% false positives. I read this in their website and I’m willing to bet that as you read what I’ve written here you were unaware of it because our media for some reason did not report it.

A short time ago a friend of mine went to get tested because his girlfriend tested positive. She is a nurse who gets tested three times a week. They asked him if he had any symptoms. He replied “no”. They told him not to worry and would not test him. Apparently Frontline workers who do the testing are aware of what the world health organization announced.

I think every business should have the equivalent of a traffic light on the front door. If the light is green it’s an indication that everyone inside is diligently practicing The behavior that helps Karen feel comfortable. If the light is yellow it’s indication that some people are and some people are not practicing what helps Karen feel comfortable. If the light is red nobody is practicing what helps Karen feel comfortable. Karen can make up her own mind based on the light. Live free or die!

SamIam; no cases here either!

[winterh]

Mark me down as someone who does not care. A short lockdown was ok but this has gone way past that for something with a 99% plus survival rate. If you are worried then lock yourself in your basement while the rest of us get on with our lives. This is coming from someone who is both fat and old so likely relatively high risk. The insane over reaction really makes me wonder if this country has what it takes should a real problem arise. Spare me the anecdotal sob stories as I will match you with stories of failed businesses, increased drug OD's, rising mental illness..... that the lock down has caused.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by winterh

Mark me down as someone who does not care. A short lockdown was ok but this has gone way past that for something with a 99% plus survival rate. If you are worried then lock yourself in your basement while the rest of us get on with our lives. This is coming from someone who is both fat and old so likely relatively high risk. The insane over reaction really makes me wonder if this country has what it takes should a real problem arise. Spare me the anecdotal sob stories as I will match you with stories of failed businesses, increased drug OD's, rising mental illness..... that the lock down has caused.

Well I hope you will at least consider getting vaccinated once it becomes available to you and yours.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

From what I've seen, younger people are less concerned than older folks who are more likely to have complications.
But I'm curious as to why, if restaurants are so high risk, no one on our staff has contacted covid after serving customers without masks and handling money for the last year. Not saying people shouldn't be cautious....just thinking that restaurants might have been unfairly targeted.

It's kind of tricky to say that the restrictions were not necessary because nobody came down with covid, when it may have been the restrictions that kept everybody safe.

A couple of potential restrictions that may have kept your team safe: Your restaurant had a small fraction of the regular crowd come in, so there were fewer contagious people in the VK than would have been the case. Your crew is good about masking and hand sanitizing themselves, so these was less chance that a contagious person would have transmitted to them.

On a happier note--I got my first shot today, so looking forward to spending my 2020 VK gift certificates in May. Just trying to decide between the pancakes and the ham and eggs...

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Just my opinion if you’re not gonna see the name of the restaurant and give people a heads up about a certain place and then subsequently say they may still be following CDC guidelines then I’d like to ask what was the purpose of the post to begin with

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Yes, and Yes!
Why stir the pot and then walk away?

You know what? One of us here at work is sick.
Thanks for the info- Dubba!

[Mr. V]

Some of you people are funny, pretending like it's back to normal again.

It ain't over til the fat lady takes off her mask and then belts out some opera.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

On a happier note--I got my first shot today, so looking forward to spending my 2020 VK gift certificates in May. Just trying to decide between the pancakes and the ham and eggs...

Why not get the pancakes with a side of ham and eggs. You won't have to worry about what you will have for lunch. ��

Dave

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by baygo

I find it frustrating that on January 21st the World Health Organization posted in their website that there is no asymmetric condition. Therefore indicating that we have been fed information containing about 90% false positives. I read this in their website and I’m willing to bet that as you read what I’ve written here you were unaware of it because our media for some reason did not report it.

Can you post a citation link to where you read this on the WHO site? I think you meant asymptomatic, not asymmetric, but even so, couldn't find the information on the WHO site. There was someone from WHO that retracted a similar statement made last July, but nothing around Jan 21. My assumptions have always been that people have caught the virus via both pre-symtomatic and asymptomatic cases. Pre-symtomatic being the most common and the most insidious nature of this virus. It would be a surprise to learn that asymptomatic (ie, someone who tested positive but never showed symptoms) wasn't an issue.

[Newbiesaukee]

Agree Lakegeezer.

As much as I respect Baygo as a person and restaurant owner, his information is not correct. WHO did make a similar comment about a year ago, but it is totally out of date.

There is still a lot we don’t know about Covid, but the strong consensus is that there is absolutely asymptomatic spread and this MAY occur even in the vaccinated.

[mswlogo]

I can see Motorheads point about not wishing to share the restaurant’s name.

His point was about the situation, not the specific restaurant. If there is one, there are probably many. So why call one specific restaurant out. It wasn’t the point.

My in laws “didn’t care” either. Everyone got COVID. One was in the hospital for weeks with blood clots in his legs. He did recover. Another recovered fine. Another is on a ventilator right now and been on it for a week. If she makes it, it will be months of recovery. She is in her 50’s.

If people want to take their own risk that’s fine. It’s not like leaving your helmet off on a motor cycle. But by taking your own risk, you risks others. It’s basically spitting in the face of your fellow man by not doing what is in your power. As feeble and annoying a mask may feel, it’s not asking much. That’s what gets under my skin. It’s says they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves. We know there are people like that. But sad to see so many.

I’ll give a bunch of them the benefit of doubt that they have been miss informed to help convince myself there aren’t so many selfish people.

It’s pretty damn clear lock downs and masks save life’s. You’d have to be living under a rock to think otherwise.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Can you post a citation link to where you read this on the WHO site? I think you meant asymptomatic, not asymmetric, but even so, couldn't find the information on the WHO site. There was someone from WHO that retracted a similar statement made last July, but nothing around Jan 21. My assumptions have always been that people have caught the virus via both pre-symtomatic and asymptomatic cases. Pre-symtomatic being the most common and the most insidious nature of this virus. It would be a surprise to learn that asymptomatic (ie, someone who tested positive but never showed symptoms) wasn't an issue.

You are correct, I meant asymptomatic, not asymmetric. Chalk it up to a speech to text failure.

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-...-users-2020-05

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Comment on post #23...re how obvious it is that lockdowns save lives: if that is so, then WHY hasn’t that worked in states like California? Their numbers are horrific! Please don’t assume that those who don’t agree with your premise must be living under a rock because it might just make you look foolish.

[thinkxingu]

Two different family friends of mine have recently tested positive and are now, with their families, quarantined for a while as it runs through the house. It's definitely still a "thing."

There has always been a reasonable balance of freedom and safety to be struck, but, much like the political discourse in today's America, we weren't ever able to find it.

Time, distance, saturation, hygiene. Those are the factors of spread. There's a formula in there with masks, lower capacities, hand-washing, etc. but that's too much to ask for too many Americans.

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[baygo]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

Agree Lakegeezer.

As much as I respect Baygo as a person and restaurant owner, his information is not correct. WHO did make a similar comment about a year ago, but it is totally out of date.

There is still a lot we don’t know about Covid, but the strong consensus is that there is absolutely asymptomatic spread and this MAY occur even in the vaccinated.

The resource that led me to the link I posted For lakegeezer was brought to my attention in an article that also mentioned the comments you reference from about a year ago.

[MotorHead]

I just love some of the comments and attitudes here.

Over 535000 Americans died from Covid, Who cares? Right.
I am fine as long as it is not me or my family, rest of you can go to hell.

Love it, just love it.
Keep drinking the Kool Aid.

[winterh]

My in laws “didn’t care” either. Everyone got COVID. One was in the hospital for weeks with blood clots in his legs. He did recover. Another recovered fine. Another is on a ventilator right now and been on it for a week. If she makes it, it will be months of recovery. She is in her 50’s.

If people want to take their own risk that’s fine. It’s not like leaving your helmet off on a motor cycle. But by taking your own risk, you risks others. It’s basically spitting in the face of your fellow man by not doing what is in your power. As feeble and annoying a mask may feel, it’s not asking much. That’s what gets under my skin. It’s says they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves. We know there are people like that. But sad to see so many.

I’ll give a bunch of them the benefit of doubt that they have been miss informed to help convince myself there aren’t so many selfish people.

It’s pretty damn clear lock downs and masks save life’s. You’d have to be living under a rock to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever taken an economics class? Do you understand the concept of tradeoffs? To quote the great Thomas Sowell "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs". You can throw out factually incomplete anecdotal stories about this person or that but the stats tell the story. Average age of death is over 80 years old. A terrible thing when its your grandma but life goes on. Average life expectancy is not even that old. 99 % survival rate for those who are not grossly obese or very old. As the Lt governor of Texas said early in the crisis " I don't want to die of covid but I want to leave a country for my grand kids". Maybe instead of closing gyms we should have told people to get off their ass and get themselves in better shape because healthy people beat the virus. If you want to hold people who think there has been a major over reaction responsible for the death of people who are very close to the end anyway than I can certainly hold you responsible for the increase in suicides and mental illness the lock down has caused. Perhaps you would look at it differently if this insanity was bankrupting your future or causing loved ones to commit suicide or battle mental illness. Thats not happening to me personally but I do recognize that its not as simple as locking down forever and waiting for my government handout.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I just love some of the comments and attitudes here.

Over 535000 Americans died from Covid, Who cares? Right.
I am fine as long as it is not me or my family, rest of you can go to hell.

Love it, just love it.
Keep drinking the Kool Aid.

I think everyone is tired of Covid and everyone deals with it in their own way. Everyone has been affected differently.
Many have lost, love ones, their jobs, their businesses, and their minds. We have vaccines so it's time to start opening up.
If someone still feels vulnerable then they have to protect themselves by staying home and away from crowds.
You can't make everyone bow to your beliefs.
I was one that believed in the lock down mainly because the health care facilities were being inundated with patients. That's no longer happening so it's time to get back to a somewhat normal lifestyle.

[mswlogo]

Winterh,

My wife and I both lost our Jobs due to COVID. I know there is a cost to the lock downs. But we are talking mostly about masks here.

But if everyone WOULD f’n wear a mask and follow the guidelines we could all get over this SOONER so they can get back to work. All the people that do fight it, is delaying the end. I think the folks wearing masks want to get back to work more than the ones that don’t !!!

And “shutdowns” have not worked as well in the USA because of exactly what Motörhead wrote. It has been half a$$ed the whole time. It’s been late, poorly enforced horrible messages sent out by moron leaders.

Also you are in for a rude awakening for what “survived” COVID means which the stats have not revealed yet.

So as long as it’s only fat or old people are dying, your good with that. Nice guy.

BTW, I heard there is some gas station somewhere that if you are wear a mask they won’t serve you. This is unconfirmed and possibly taken out of context. But hardly a surprise if true.

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

My wife and I both lost our Jobs due to COVID. I know there is a cost to the lock downs.

But if everyone WOULD f’n wear a mask and follow the guidelines we could all get over this SOONER so they can get to work. All the people that do fight it, is delay it. I think the folks wearing masks want to get back to work more than the ones that don’t !!!

And “shutdowns” have not worked as well in the USA because of exactly what Motörhead wrote. It has been half a$$ed the whole time. It’s been late, poorly enforced horrible messages sent out by moron leaders.

Also you are in for a rude awakening for what “survived” COVID means which the stats have not revealed yet.

So as long as it’s only fat or old people dying, your good with that. Nice guy.

I am not sure where everyone sees so many people not masked here locally except while seated in restaurants. For the last many months I have seen one (yes ONLY one) person without a mask walk into a store and buy a few items. But that is it. One. And I am no wallflower -- we go to restaurants, Hannaford, WalMart, the shooting range and more. I venture out into the public EVERY DAY - and I don't see what some here are seeing. I see people wearing masks and keeping their distance everywhere.

So perhaps the reason it's still around is that people have grown lazy by just wearing masks and no longer sanitizing their hands.


GB

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by baygo

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-...-users-2020-05

Thanks for the link Baygo. I'm still trying to interpret what was written by the WHO. The relevant paragraph is:

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

WHO reminds IVD users that disease prevalence alters the predictive value of test results; as disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases (2). This means that the probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as prevalence decreases, irrespective of the claimed specificity.

The WHO article is poorly written, but I don't come to the same conclusion that there is no asymptomatic condition. Nowhere does it say what viral load is required before symptoms show or for a person to be infectious. It also doesn't report how many labs weren't following the protocols so we don't know how many positive test results were false.

It was written for the labs that do the testing, clarifying information on why not following the testing protocols might lead to reporting false positives. That topic was covered in a NPR article.

It is likely that some people quarantined due to a positive test when they didn't have to just as it is likely some people had the virus, were never tested and so should have been quarantined.

I'm still trying to understand why the Lakes Region infection rate was so low during the summer, when tourists flocked in, and so much higher since the fall. The state daily infection rate, while rising again, has fallen to where it was in November and the deaths/day have fallen over 90% over the peak.

With vaccinations rolling out, those that were careful can start to mingle with those that were never careful and open things up again.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Thanks for the link Baygo. I'm still trying to interpret what was written by the WHO. The relevant paragraph is:

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

WHO reminds IVD users that disease prevalence alters the predictive value of test results; as disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases (2). This means that the probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as prevalence decreases, irrespective of the claimed specificity.

The WHO article is poorly written, but I don't come to the same conclusion that there is no asymptomatic condition. Nowhere does it say what viral load is required before symptoms show or for a person to be infectious. It also doesn't report how many labs weren't following the protocols so we don't know how many positive test results were false.

It was written for the labs that do the testing, clarifying information on why not following the testing protocols might lead to reporting false positives. That topic was covered in a NPR article.

It is likely that some people quarantined due to a positive test when they didn't have to just as it is likely some people had the virus, were never tested and so should have been quarantined.

I'm still trying to understand why the Lakes Region infection rate was so low during the summer, when tourists flocked in, and so much higher since the fall. The state daily infection rate, while rising again, has fallen to where it was in November and the deaths/day have fallen over 90% over the peak.

With vaccinations rolling out, those that were careful can start to mingle with those that were never careful and open things up again.

You are correct. That is the paragraph of interest. My interpretation of “Clinical presentation” Is if one was to go into a clinic in search of a diagnosis, the clinic would base diagnosis from symptoms, then do a test. WHO is stating that if that diagnosis conflicts with test results, test again. The article that pointed me to the WHO statement was the basis to my statement 90% false positives. Big Brother has remove that article from the source I found it on.

There are some other very interesting concerns in regards to the vaccine. My bartender ears overheard the conversation where someone had concerns about a microchip being implanted with the vaccine. The second person in that conversation claimed to be in microchip development and stated that there’s no chip that small. I did a google search today for the smallest micro chip. According to my findings the smallest one was developed in 2010. You would have to create a line with 2.5 million of them to stretch one inch. Another overheard conversation indicated that this is the first vaccine to use CRISPR technology. I believe my time spent researching CRISPR was time well spent.

We all can and will have our own opinion of this. A damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario has certainly been painted.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by baygo

You are correct. That is the paragraph of interest. My interpretation of “Clinical presentation” Is if one was to go into a clinic in search of a diagnosis, the clinic would base diagnosis from symptoms, then do a test. WHO is stating that if that diagnosis conflicts with test results, test again. The article that pointed me to the WHO statement was the basis to my statement 90% false positives. Big Brother has remove that article from the source I found it on.

There are some other very interesting concerns in regards to the vaccine. My bartender ears overheard the conversation where someone had concerns about a microchip being implanted with the vaccine. The second person in that conversation claimed to be in microchip development and stated that there’s no chip that small. I did a google search today for the smallest micro chip. According to my findings the smallest one was developed in 2010. You would have to create a line with 2.5 million of them to stretch one inch. Another overheard conversation indicated that this is the first vaccine to use CRISPR technology. I believe my time spent researching CRISPR was time well spent.

We all can and will have our own opinion of this. A damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario has certainly been painted.

I hope they put a chip in me. That way when I lose my mind and can't find my way home they can track me down and return me to whom I belong.

[thinkxingu]

Wait, wait—hold up: did someone just suggest that microchips might be in the Covid vaccine?

FFS, this forum continues to hit new lows with regards to conspiracy theories and misinformation. Anyone know if there's a tinfoil hat factory looking to sponsor us?!

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by baygo

We all can and will have our own opinion of this. A damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario has certainly been painted.

Absolutely, we all have our own opinions, and that's how it should be.

But this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" line is being painted by people who are not really interested in public health. There is zero risk to taking the vaccines (unless you are screened out for certain allergies, etc, at the vax site). There is significant risk and pain involved in getting covid, and a lot more than 1% have become seriously ill.

One way misinformation spreads is absurd theories coupled with fact. Like when a person suggests that somehow there's a conspiracy to inject microscopic microchips into people, and then quickly notes he once read something about CRISPR.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Absolutely, we all have our own opinions, and that's how it should be.

But this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" line is being painted by people who are not really interested in public health. There is zero risk to taking the vaccines (unless you are screened out for certain allergies, etc, at the vax site). There is significant risk and pain involved in getting covid, and a lot more than 1% have become seriously ill.

One way misinformation spreads is absurd theories coupled with fact. Like when a person suggests that somehow there's a conspiracy to inject microscopic microchips into people, and then quickly notes he once read something about CRISPR.

I’m not leaning one way or the other on this. I’m simply sharing things I’ve heard and hoping to learn from additional contribution of others. I am not going to simply shut down the opinion of another’s because it doesn’t align with mine. When we silence our critic we deprive our self the opportunity to learn from them.

8 months ago people from one side of the isle did not trust the thought of a vaccine and people from the other side did. Eight months later and there has been a complete flip flop by both sides

This world is filled with brilliant people. Some of them have good intentions, others not so good! Please share with me the reasons I should have absolutely no concern of danger from the vaccine. Also please share exactly all information required to be given before the vaccination was administered. I’ve never had a flu shot so I’m somewhat naïve to the process. Was it the same amount of information or more?

If a microchip was created so small what is the intention for its existence?

I used the Internet for the first time in 1979. If I had told you then that within 20 years every single piece of your personal information, And behavioral habits would be accessible to anyone who wanted it, you likely would have called that a conspiracy theory as well.. if I had told you a year and a half ago that today you’ll be walking around society hidden behind a mask, how would you have responded?

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Thanks for the link Baygo. I'm still trying to interpret what was written by the WHO. The relevant paragraph is:

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

WHO reminds IVD users that disease prevalence alters the predictive value of test results; as disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases (2). This means that the probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as prevalence decreases, irrespective of the claimed specificity.

The WHO article is poorly written, but I don't come to the same conclusion that there is no asymptomatic condition. Nowhere does it say what viral load is required before symptoms show or for a person to be infectious. It also doesn't report how many labs weren't following the protocols so we don't know how many positive test results were false.

It was written for the labs that do the testing, clarifying information on why not following the testing protocols might lead to reporting false positives. That topic was covered in a NPR article.

It is likely that some people quarantined due to a positive test when they didn't have to just as it is likely some people had the virus, were never tested and so should have been quarantined.

I'm still trying to understand why the Lakes Region infection rate was so low during the summer, when tourists flocked in, and so much higher since the fall. The state daily infection rate, while rising again, has fallen to where it was in November and the deaths/day have fallen over 90% over the peak.

With vaccinations rolling out, those that were careful can start to mingle with those that were never careful and open things up again.

So, are you saying you prefer music by The WHO rather than what The Who writes?

LOL

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

So, are you saying you prefer music by The WHO rather than what The Who writes?

LOL

Great respect for both. :-)

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by baygo

I’m not leaning one way or the other on this. I’m simply sharing things I’ve heard and hoping to learn from additional contribution of others. I am not going to simply shut down the opinion of another’s because it doesn’t align with mine. When we silence our critic we deprive our self the opportunity to learn from them.

8 months ago people from one side of the isle did not trust the thought of a vaccine and people from the other side did. Eight months later and there has been a complete flip flop by both sides

This world is filled with brilliant people. Some of them have good intentions, others not so good! Please share with me the reasons I should have absolutely no concern of danger from the vaccine. Also please share exactly all information required to be given before the vaccination was administered. I’ve never had a flu shot so I’m somewhat naïve to the process. Was it the same amount of information or more?

If a microchip was created so small what is the intention for its existence?

I used the Internet for the first time in 1979. If I had told you then that within 20 years every single piece of your personal information, And behavioral habits would be accessible to anyone who wanted it, you likely would have called that a conspiracy theory as well.. if I had told you a year and a half ago that today you’ll be walking around society hidden behind a mask, how would you have responded?

More misinformation:

No one advocating vaccines now was doubtful before. If so, please share. You may be recalling one of my posts last Spring telling joey(?) there was no way a vaccine would come by July. That was not doubting vaccines, it was explaining timing, and has been proven correct.

"If a microchip was created..."--you're the only one who has asserted such a ridiculous thing.

You should check the state vaccine site for direct info on qualifications, etc

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Comment on post #23...re how obvious it is that lockdowns save lives: if that is so, then WHY hasn’t that worked in states like California? Their numbers are horrific! Please don’t assume that those who don’t agree with your premise must be living under a rock because it might just make you look foolish.

Have to agree with this to some degree, and would love someone to do a study. Compare FL, where I am currently, and CA, and the numbers on the surface are very similar. Not that the numbers are good, but they are similar. FL is essentially wide open, with most retail/restaurants/entertainment venues requiring masks and some with occupancy limits. From my experience down here, I really think the efficacy of masks is proved. No need to lock down so tight if the vast majority of people are willing to wear masks.


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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by baygo

I’m not leaning one way or the other on this. I’m simply sharing things I’ve heard and hoping to learn from additional contribution of others. I am not going to simply shut down the opinion of another’s because it doesn’t align with mine. When we silence our critic we deprive our self the opportunity to learn from them.

8 months ago people from one side of the isle did not trust the thought of a vaccine and people from the other side did. Eight months later and there has been a complete flip flop by both sides

This world is filled with brilliant people. Some of them have good intentions, others not so good! Please share with me the reasons I should have absolutely no concern of danger from the vaccine. Also please share exactly all information required to be given before the vaccination was administered. I’ve never had a flu shot so I’m somewhat naïve to the process. Was it the same amount of information or more?

If a microchip was created so small what is the intention for its existence?

I used the Internet for the first time in 1979. If I had told you then that within 20 years every single piece of your personal information, And behavioral habits would be accessible to anyone who wanted it, you likely would have called that a conspiracy theory as well.. if I had told you a year and a half ago that today you’ll be walking around society hidden behind a mask, how would you have responded?

Totally agree that we need to listen to all sides of the story and need to listen to alternative opinions. My brother-in-law and I are polar opposites, but I do listen to what he says, and we agree on fundamental points. I wish he did the same, but since he once called me Madam Mao, I don’t think he does.

If the reason why “isle” comes up when you meant “aisle” is because you’re using speech-to-text technology, please go back to typing for yourself. It would be the second incident in this thread where it failed. And because you brought up the concern about microchips, why would you rely on speech-to-text when someone could be listening in?

As for the size of microchips, the smaller we get technology, the better it is on some fronts. I used to work on algorithms for satellites, so interacted with the engineers who designed them. The smaller we can get those birds going into space, the better. Not to say that some people couldn’t decide to use them for nefarious purposes, but their original development isn’t typically for bad reasons. That’s the nature of our species to warp good things into bad.

I worked with a man who thought 20 years ago that the internet should be left to the scientists. I thought he was crazy and elitist at the time, but part of me thinks he was correct looking back on it. As for masks, if you told me a year and a half ago why I would be wearing it, I would be fine with it.


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[Descant]

I'm really having trouble with this discussion. Only a small number will get the truth chips, starting with teachers and preachers.
s/Winston Smith

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Wait, wait—hold up: did someone just suggest that microchips might be in the Covid vaccine?

FFS, this forum continues to hit new lows with regards to conspiracy theories and misinformation. Anyone know if there's a tinfoil hat factory looking to sponsor us?!

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[Pam]

Originally Posted by baygo

380 days since we had the privilege of serving the public in our home. We’ve managed to keep the bills paid by maintaining operations of our outside bar. My respect for my Louisiana born wife went to a new level the -4° morning that she cheerfully prepared a breakfast sandwich for the hungry loyalist.

I’ve talked with and listened to 1,000s over the past 380 days. My take on things; The so-called experts are the most wishy-washy and inconsistent with their message, and the politicians continue their strategy of divide to conquer.

I find it frustrating that on January 21st the World Health Organization posted in their website that there is no asymmetric condition. Therefore indicating that we have been fed information containing about 90% false positives. I read this in their website and I’m willing to bet that as you read what I’ve written here you were unaware of it because our media for some reason did not report it.

A short time ago a friend of mine went to get tested because his girlfriend tested positive. She is a nurse who gets tested three times a week. They asked him if he had any symptoms. He replied “no”. They told him not to worry and would not test him. Apparently Frontline workers who do the testing are aware of what the world health organization announced.

I think every business should have the equivalent of a traffic light on the front door. If the light is green it’s an indication that everyone inside is diligently practicing The behavior that helps Karen feel comfortable. If the light is yellow it’s indication that some people are and some people are not practicing what helps Karen feel comfortable. If the light is red nobody is practicing what helps Karen feel comfortable. Karen can make up her own mind based on the light. Live free or die!

SamIam; no cases here either!

I find this post disappointing. The fact is that no restaurants are going to truly recover until the virus is brought under control. It's wonderful that your restaurant has been able to survive and that no-one has gotten sick. But that's not the case everywhere, and people are not wary only because of false media information or politics. These days, many people are wary because they know people who have suffered with this disease, or have died, or have had to care for sick people. In my opinion, people just doing "what they feel comfortable with" has led to a prolonged problem.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Descant

I'm really having trouble with this discussion. Only a small number will get the truth chips, starting with teachers and preachers.
s/Winston Smith

This is the problem with the internet. Not everyone understands what
“ s/Winston Smith “means. Sarcasm does need signifiers.

It is just too easy to misinterpret what one writes.

But it is funny.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

This is the problem with the internet. Not everyone understands what
“ s/Winston Smith “means. Sarcasm does need signifiers.

It is just too easy to misinterpret what one writes.

But it is funny.

Agreed, but I believe (hope) the post was referring to a thread from a year or two ago in which /s was involved/discussed/critiqued/ridiculed.

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Pam

In my opinion, people just doing "what they feel comfortable with" has led to a prolonged problem.

I have a friend in Slovenia. Last year, during the first wave, his country had very good virus management and very few infections and deaths. Then they dropped the ball and they now have the 4th highest rate of infections and deaths in the world, even higher than the US. The pandemic has clearly shown that people are not willing, of their own free will, to do what is sensible and necessary to protect themselves and others. This applies to individuals, businesses, state governors, national leaders, etc. Many people are just not that interested in staying alive over the long term. It might be OK if it were only the reckless people who died. Unfortunately they've taken a lot of innocent people along with them.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I have a friend in Slovenia.

OMG, I know of a stripper from Slovenia. What a coincidence.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

OMG, I know of a stripper from Slovenia. What a coincidence.

https://youtu.be/OY7D0aPXz0k

You're welcome.

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[MotorHead]

Ha ha ha ha ha

[baygo]

Originally Posted by Pam

I find this post disappointing. The fact is that no restaurants are going to truly recover until the virus is brought under control. It's wonderful that your restaurant has been able to survive and that no-one has gotten sick. But that's not the case everywhere, and people are not wary only because of false media information or politics. These days, many people are wary because they know people who have suffered with this disease, or have died, or have had to care for sick people. In my opinion, people just doing "what they feel comfortable with" has led to a prolonged problem.

So you find my post disappointing. That hurts me because it’s not in my nature to ever disappoint. Should you Believe my understanding of this situation is without regard for the safety of others, please allow me the opportunity to elaborate on my position.

My parents are both in their 80s, my mother lives with multiple sclerosis, certainly an underlying condition vulnerable to the virus.. Aware of the dangers associated with my constant exposure to the public has lead me to keep my distance. That’s pretty painful because I believe she needs me now! My father has recently been admitted to the hospital for treatment of colon cancer. My siblings have all kinds of gut wrenching concerns associated with the current virus scenario. I question whether it is our position to decide for my parents their right to hug their grandchildren. My mom is going to die sooner or later, I don’t believe she should be denied the opportunity to hug her grandchildren one more time. She should be allowed the opportunity to decide whether that hug is worth the risk.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by baygo

So you find my post disappointing. That hurts me because it’s not in my nature to ever disappoint. Should you Believe my understanding of this situation is without regard for the safety of others, please allow me the opportunity to elaborate on my position.

My parents are both in their 80s, my mother lives with multiple sclerosis, certainly an underlying condition vulnerable to the virus.. Aware of the dangers associated with my constant exposure to the public has lead me to keep my distance. That’s pretty painful because I believe she needs me now! My father has recently been admitted to the hospital for treatment of colon cancer. My siblings have all kinds of gut wrenching concerns associated with the current virus scenario. I question whether it is our position to decide for my parents their right to hug their grandchildren. My mom is going to die sooner or later, I don’t believe she should be denied the opportunity to hug her grandchildren one more time. She should be allowed the opportunity to decide whether that hug is worth the risk.

Sorry to hear about your Mom's MS. I agree she has the right to choose how to live and die on her own terms. It sounds like she has chosen no vaccine and no hugs.

My parents are also in their 80s, and we have kept our distance until recently when then got their vaccines. It's been a huge relief to know they no longer have to choose between their kids and their health. My son is on the way to spend a weekend with them, and they're all thrilled.

[WinnisquamZ]

Very sad to read you had to seek approval by the CDC to hug your grandchild.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Very sad to read you had to seek approval by the CDC to hug your grandchild.


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I rewrote it for you: "Sad that you followed the science community to avoid risky behavior."

I suppose we should all start smoking now, too.

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[MotorHead]

Rumor has it drinking Clorox cures it.
Cheers, you go first..

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Pam

I find this post disappointing. The fact is that no restaurants are going to truly recover until the virus is brought under control. It's wonderful that your restaurant has been able to survive and that no-one has gotten sick. But that's not the case everywhere, and people are not wary only because of false media information or politics. These days, many people are wary because they know people who have suffered with this disease, or have died, or have had to care for sick people. In my opinion, people just doing "what they feel comfortable with" has led to a prolonged problem.

If anything is going to "prolong the problem" it's allowing infected people to scatter throughout the country—yet "we're comfortable" with the status quo.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I rewrote it for you: "Sad that you followed the science community to avoid risky behavior."

I suppose we should all start smoking now, too.

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There is no need to be snarky.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DEJ

There is no need to be snarky.

When somebody is snarky towards another forum member for following science to keep their family safe, I'm gonna point it out.

That was a jerk post and one you expect me to be ok with after my own kids' grandmother died of Covid? After she did everything right while another chose not to?

Take a hike.

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[DEJ]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Take a hike.

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Real classy.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Real classy.

But you trying to justify members criticizing others is ok? You're ok with ridiculing a grandparent for following science to keep their family safe? On a forum in which grandparents and parents have voiced suffering for the last year?

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[DEJ]

My God dude I am not trying to justify any members comments, just pointed out what I thought to be a snarky comment. Geez some people are a little touchy this morning.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DEJ

My God dude I am not trying to justify any members comments, just pointed out what I thought to be a snarky comment. Geez some people are a little touchy this morning.

I'm touchy because you called me out for not being ok with a forum member ridiculing another rather than agreeing and refusing to accept that type of thing here.

There are currently a dozen or so active members missing because they hate what this forum has become and another ten who message me privately because they don't want to get involved in public. Add to that many recent public comments referring to the same thing.

The forum member posted that s/he is glad the science shows vaccine effectiveness is good enough to now allow him/her to hug his/her grandkids. The answer to that should've been "good for you," "enjoy the moment," or something to that ilk.

Instead, it was followed by a snarky condemnation of that behavior.

I am NOT ok with that, nor should you, or anyone else, be.

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[DEJ]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I'm touchy because you called me out for not being ok with a forum member ridiculing another rather than agreeing and refusing to accept that type of thing here.

There are currently a dozen or so active members missing because they hate what this forum has become and another ten who message me privately because they don't want to get involved in public. Add to that many recent public comments referring to the same thing.

The forum member posted that s/he is glad the science shows vaccine effectiveness is good enough to now allow him/her to hug his/her grandkids. The answer to that should've been "good for you," "enjoy the moment," or something to that ilk.

Instead, it was followed by a snarky condemnation of that behavior.

I am NOT ok with that, nor should you, or anyone else, be.

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Please do not tell me what I should or should not be ok with. Who the hell are you to tell anyone for that matter what to think or post? Go back to bed and get up on the other side as it appears you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Hope your have a great day.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Please do not tell me what I should or should not be ok with. Who the hell are you to tell anyone for that matter what to think or post? Go back to bed and get up on the other side as it appears you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Hope your have a great day.

"Trying to be a better person" is what you said to me, right? Hahahaha!

Happy Friday, friend.

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